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The Three Missing Virtues: Honesty, Spirituality and Humility!

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Corwin, Jun 7, 2008.

  1. Corwin

    Corwin Guest

    I know this has been brought up about 375 times in the past four years. But enough is enough. Can we finally get an answer from the Devs on this?

    The virtue system has never been finished enough though it was promised several expansions and patches ago. How hard can it be to finish it? Just toss something, anything, together and get it done. We have had five virtues for years, but not the last three. There have been several good ideas including the ones originally posted as "in development."

    For years I have keep some of my Virtue Knights on some of my characters and its funny to look at the five colors and three blank unfinished symbols. Funny and damn annoying at the same time.

    I thought we were close when the shadowlords struck and we got the two quests for the book of truth and the candle of love. But still no finished virtue system.

    I thought we might be close when the new Warriors of Destiny was announced, since we are opposing the anti-virtues and anti-principle shadowlords were formed. But still no announcement.

    If we can't get an answer, then can we just destroy the old system. It doesn't make sense to have it done half-way.

    Any thoughts? Any pleas? Any polls?

    I can't be the only one...
     
  2. Just goes to show ...

    Really really hard ... to be completely, perfectly, totally "Virtuous"

    (Easier to spot ... If Patience was one too ...)

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Nenime

    Nenime Guest

    You are not. I'm completely with you.
    Not only for roleplaying it would be so fantastic. While roleplaying is pretty much dead (at least on our shard) it would nevertheless add a new motivation to the game. Since there was no expansion since ML, this would be a nice gift to the very loyal gamer community of UO. I also agree with you that this could not be so hard to be done.
     
  4. Aladaria

    Aladaria Guest

    How would you gain in them, and what would the benefits be?

    I fully agree that the system should be finished off. Just curious on anyone's thoughts on the above questions.
     
  5. Hunters Moon

    Hunters Moon Guest

    Benefits? Possibly make a dungeon that only allows entry for those that have Knighthood in all the virtues.Add new artifacts that only be weilded by those that did the work and got to Knighthood in each virtue.
     
  6. Nenime

    Nenime Guest

    This is one of the best ideas ever. Excellent!

    A good (I mean GOOD!) questline a bit like a pilgrimage would be nice. While gaining Humility you are only allowed to use "peaceful" skills or something like that. But don't mind this idea. It's just RP-legacy ;)
     
  7. Norrar

    Norrar Lore Master
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    and create more land mass? when we already have way to much?
     
  8. controlfive

    controlfive Guest

    it would've been cool if they made each piece of the virtue armor gain special properties if you were a knight of that virtue, instead of just making it a set.
     
  9. Emil IsTemp

    Emil IsTemp Guest

    Well, Humility is the abscence of all virtue.. so only two left..

    and Magincia is/was the city of Humility..

    Look what happens when you deny the virtues. Your city gets leveled.

    (so in Lunas case, it will be ground zero for Armageddon)

    =) I saved some rubble, and im going to get a humility tile, next to the ankh and rubble and my mag pride shirt. Kinda set up my own shrine to the memory of Mag.
     
  10. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
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    The devs have a long list of things that need to be worked on, fixed, or implemented, arranged by order of necessity. Stuff they WANT to do often gets bumped down the list by stuff that NEEDs to be done, as well as things they are TOLD to do by their superiors. I'm sure the Virtues are in the "want" pile but keep getting outnumbered by the "need"s and "told"s, just like a lot of other things players always ask for. Drac pretty much said so at the Rockford Townhall (I think that was the one I was at? god I wish my memory was better).
     
  11. Lily of Arirang

    Lily of Arirang Visitor
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    I second this, and only one character per account like factions
     
  12. Lily of Arirang

    Lily of Arirang Visitor
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    I never understand the notion of too much land, what we have is easy enough to navigate, and what are you afraid of? Getting lost? WoW, I miss getting lost in the game.
     
  13. Lily of Arirang

    Lily of Arirang Visitor
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    Bingo!
     
  14. Aladaria

    Aladaria Guest

    I like this idea but the only problem I can see is Justice. You would have to be good at PvP and find enough reds (or, as I'm sure people will, find some way of abusing the system) to get to kinght of justice.

    All the other virtues are wholly reliant on the player, justice is one of those that is fairly reliant on others (i.e. them being red and you being able to kill them).
     
  15. Corwin

    Corwin Guest

    I don't buy the "want/need" list argument. It's done, what, four years? Or more? I don't even remember now. It was the same problem with the virtue armor. Remember? Two pieces...nothing for a year. One more piece added as a hard quest item. Nothing for months. Suddenly all the rest show up.

    If they can write a whole quest, destory a city, add new things, in one week. They can finish the virtue system.

    In fact, I would be willing to bet they could finish it in one week. Someone doesn't care.
     
  16. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    While they're at it, they can redo all of the current virtues, because none of them make any sense.
     
  17. Dexdash

    Dexdash Guest

    and put in some anti virtues for reds....
     
  18. Desolation87

    Desolation87 Guest

    Say they did open all the vitues, which I wish they would, NOBODY would ever get knight in all. You know humilty is helping new players right? When was the last time you saw a 'young' player?
     
  19. Beastmaster

    Beastmaster Guest

    Gaining Honesty -

    Every kill left unlooted, the gold on the corpse adds to your Honesty. Gold looted would be deducted from your Honesty at twice its value.

    Simple idea, nothing spectacular, but it should be something easy to implement codewise. At least another virtue would be added.

    Benefit of Honesty -

    NPC vendors would give you a ?10%? discount on goods ?5? (varied by Honesty level)transactions per day.
     
  20. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    "How would you gain in them, and what would the benefits be?"

    That's not too hard to figure out, just have someone dig out the old Pony Canyon Nintendo games and check out Quest of the Avatar.......It's not that hard.

    What is hard, is the ability to even to try and begin to fathom the thought of a bunch of people running a game for a decade.....yes a decade devs, and not implementing the rest of the virtues.

    They drop everything when players whine about trade in points though....or monsters being to tough.

    Stick with the program devs, and if you're too young to know what Ultima is really all about, hire someone older who knows quality and content.

    See ya in Oct.
     
  21. Corwin

    Corwin Guest

    Here is how the missing virtues were handled in U4.

    Honesty: When purchasing goods from blind merchants the player is required to enter the amount they actually wish to pay. Although the player has the option of paying less than the merchant has asked for, this will mark the player as dishonest. Stealing gold from chests owned by others will also penalize the player.

    Spirituality:
    Meditating at shrines and achieving enlightenment in the other virtues enhances the player's spirituality.

    Humility: The player demonstrates their humility during conversations. A boastful response to a question results in a penalty.
     
  22. Corwin

    Corwin Guest

    And here is how the missing virtues were handled in development:


    Honesty is part of a philosophy within Ultima Online known as the Virtues, and is one of eight pursuits within the Virtue System
    The Virtue of Honesty has been described thusly:
    "Honesty is scrupulous respect for truth - the willingness never to deceive oneself or another."
    Players are able to pursue the Virtue of Honesty by confessing to their sins at a shrine.
    Gaining Honesty:
    Characters are able to gain points in Honesty by speaking a mantra at a shrine.
    Speak the mantra "Forgive my sins, for I have strayed from the path of Virtue".
    You will lose Fame for every mongbat death you have upon your conscience, but you are cleansed of those kills.
    Points in Honesty may be earned up to two times in a given day.
    Virtuous Title & Abilities: When a character has achieved any number of Honesty points, he is considered to have achieved a certain step on the path of Honesty.
    When a player moves his cursor over the Honesty symbol, a title are displayed, indicating the step currently achieved in Honesty for that character.
    First step: Seeker of Honesty
    Second step: Follower of Honesty
    Third step: Knight of Honesty
    Players who progress any number of steps on the path of Honesty, but do not continue to actively pursue it, may discover that this Virtuous title reduces in steps over time.
    Gaining steps in Honesty will make NPCs trust that player more.
    Items bought at shops are offered at a discount to more honest players..
    First step: 20% discount.
    Second step: 35% discount.
    Third step: 50% discount.
    This ability is passive, and is not limited to a certain number of purchases.
    Dishonest Acts: There are certain actions that are considered dishonest. Performing these actions will reduce the amount of Honesty a character has to some degree. These activities include:
    Using the Stealing skill.
    Casting the False Coin spell.


    Spirituality is part of a philosophy within Ultima Online known as the Virtues, and is one of eight pursuits within the Virtue system
    The Virtue of Spirituality has been described as:
    "Spirituality is the concern with one's inner being and how one deals with Truth, Love, and Courage."
    Pursuit of Spirituality will reward players with spiritual stability.
    Spirituality and the Cleansing of the Dead: Any character that slays a monster will be able to demonstrate their pursuit of Spirituality by laying the monster to rest.
    Upon slaying a related monster, players are able to sacrifice their reputation to defeat the monster in the following manner:
    Open up the Virtue gump.
    Double-click the Sacrifice (teardrop) symbol
    Target the monster
    The following is a list of monsters which may be redeemed with the sacrifice of one’s Reputation:
    Lich
    Enslaved Gargoyle
    Gargoyle Enforcer
    (Regular) Demon
    Succubus
    Evil Mage
    You cannot lay a monster to rest if:
    You did not kill it.
    You have looted it, carved it up, or drained it with Spirit Speak.
    You are dead.
    Attempts to lay irredeemable monsters to rest will have no effect.
    Once a monster is laid to rest, the following will occur:
    The monster's trapped soul (or in the case of daemons, the souls of those they have consumed) is released, ascending into the heavens.
    The monster's corpse is absorbed into the soil.
    The character will gain a point of Spirituality, if their gains that day are less than 2.
    A given character can gain Spirituality only twice per 24 hour period, but monsters can be laid to rest any amount of times.
    Virtuous Title & Abilities: When a character has achieved any number of Spirituality points, he is considered to have achieved a certain step on the path of Spirituality.
    When a player moves his cursor over the Spirituality symbol, a title will be displayed, indicating the step currently achieved in Spirituality for that character.
    First step: Seeker of Spirituality
    Second step: Follower of Spirituality
    Third step: Knight of Spirituality
    Players who progress any number of steps on the path of Spirituality, but do not continue to actively pursue it, may discover that this Virtuous title reduces in steps over time.
    Gaining steps in Spirituality will grant a character the ability to improve the spiritual results when resurrecting characters other than himself.
    Characters resurrected in this manner will return to life with a greater amount of mana than which they would normally resurrect.
    First step: Resurrected character returns to life with 20% of their maximum Mana.
    Second step: Resurrected character returns to life with 40% of their maximum Mana.
    Third step: Resurrected character returns to life with 80% of their maximum Mana.
    This ability may be used as often as the player wishes.
    Note: you must have the ability to resurrect through the use of spells or Healing skill in order to benefit from the use of this Virtue.


    The Virtue of Humility [In Development]
    Humility is part of a philosophy within Ultima Online known as the Virtues, and is one of eight pursuits within the upcoming Virtue system.
    The Virtue of Humility has been described as:
    “Perceiving one’s place in the world, not according to one’s own accomplishments, but according to the intrinsic value of all individuals.”
    Pursuit of Humility will be designed to encourage veteran players to help new players, in that they will specifically advance in this Virtue by helping [young] players.
    Squire System: Veteran players will be able to invite [young] players to become their squires.
    A veteran player can ask a [young] player to be his/her squire by:
    Opening up the Virtue gump.
    Double-clicking the Humility symbol (the shepherd’s crook).
    Targeting the [young] player.
    [Added 051101] If the [young] character is not available to be a squire:
    The veteran player receives a message telling him that the young player is not available.
    The young player does not get any message or additional gumps.
    [Added 051101] If the [young] character is available to be a squire:
    The [young] player receives a gump telling them that a veteran has asked them to be a squire, and they are asked if they want to learn more. This gump has three buttons:
    “Yes” — creates a new gump with more information and the name of the character who asked them to be a squire.
    “No” — declines the invitation.
    The veteran character is sent a message letting him know the invitation was declined.
    The veteran character cannot ask that new player again for 5 minutes.
    If the veteran character tries to ask the young player again before the 5 minutes are up, the veteran will receive a message that he must wait. The young player does not get a gump or message.
    “No — make me unavailable to be a squire” — makes the young character unavailable for the remainder of their time online.
    If the [young] player accepts the invitation to become a squire, a second gump appears. This will have more information about the Virtue of Humility, the veteran character’s name, and three buttons.
    “Yes” —creates the partnership between the two characters.
    A message is sent to the veteran confirming the acceptance.
    The [young] character’s name will hue as light blue, letting other players know he is no longer available as a squire, since the [young] character already has a sponsor.
    “No” — declines the invitation.
    The veteran character is sent a message letting him know the invitation was declined.
    The veteran character cannot ask that new player again for 5 minutes.
    If the veteran character tries to ask the young player again before the 5 minutes are up, the veteran will receive a message that the young player is not available. The young player does not get a gump or message.
    “No — make me unavailable to be a squire” — makes the young character unavailable for the remainder of their time online.
    Once the [young] player has accepted, the veteran character becomes the [young] player’s sponsor.
    If another veteran tries to invite that young to be a squire the veteran will be told that the young player is not available and the young player will not receive any gumps or messages.
    [Removed 051101] Once invited, the [young] player will receive a special invitation message. The [young] player can accept the invitation by:
    Opening up the Virtue gump.
    Double-clicking the Humility symbol (the shepherd’s crook).
    Target the veteran character.
    [Removed 051101] If the [young] player accepts this invitation…
    …and does not have a current sponsor, he will become the squire to the veteran character.
    …and already has a current sponsor, he will receive a gump, stating: “You are a squire to another player. If you accept this new invitation you will no longer be a squire to [current sponsor’s name].”
    Whenever a [young] character gains skill points in the following skills while within a squire-sponsor relationship, the sponsor may gain points in Humility:
    Alchemy
    Animal Taming
    Archery
    Blacksmithy
    Bowcraft/Fletching
    Carpentry
    Cartography
    Cooking
    Fencing
    Fishing
    Healing
    Inscription
    Lockpicking
    Mace Fighting
    Magery
    Mining
    [Removed 051101] Musicianship
    Provocation
    Stealing
    Swordsmanship
    Tailoring
    Tinkering
    Veterinary
    [Added 051101] A new gump will appear to the [young] player 10 minutes after accepting to become a squire. This gump will ask them if they are enjoying their time, and has two response buttons:
    “Continue” — pressing this option will allow the sponsor-squire relationship to continue without interference, and this same gump will appear 20 minutes later.
    “Stop” —upon pressing this response button, three things will happen:
    The [young] player will be teleported to Haven.
    The veteran receives a message that the tie has been broken.
    The sponsor-squire relationship ends.
    [Added 051101] When either character logs out, the sponsor/squire partnership ceases to exist.
    If the veteran character logs out but the [young] player does not, that [young] player will be given a gump telling them that they are no longer a squire ,and ask them if they want to go back to Haven. There will be 2 response buttons:
    “No” — leaves them where they are.
    “Yes” — sends them to Haven.
    [Added 051101] The veteran player can end the sponsor-squire relationship at any time, by the following steps:
    Opening the Virtue gump.
    Pressing the Humility symbol.
    Targeting himself.
    When the relationship is ended in this way, the new player will be given a notice and the option to go to Haven.
    There are certain situations which will affect a sponsor’s gaining of new squires and/or Humility points:
    [Added 051101] Veteran characters will not be able to ask [young] players to become squires while in Haven.
    In order for the sponsor to gain in Humility, he must remain close to the [young] character as that [young] character gains skill.
    Skill points gained through the use of a training dummy will not count toward possible Humility increases.
    Skill points gained by paying for training from NPCs will not count toward possible Humility increases.
    [Young] characters will not gain Humility points.
    The sponsor cannot gain Humility points while dead.
    [Added 051101] A feedback gump will be part of the Humility system.
    The [young] player will receive this gump, asking them to rate their experience as a squire, when:
    The [young] player decides to break the tie,
    The veteran player logs off or breaks the tie,
    The [young] player’s account (who was a squire at any time) loses it’s [young] status.
    The following response will be available on this gump, and these will be tracked by OSI to assist in modifying the system as necessary:
    “I benefited a great deal from being a squire.”
    “I got some benefit from being a squire.”
    “I benefited very little from being a squire.”
    “Being a squire hurt my experience in UO.”
    “I am not new to UO. This is a second account.”
    Virtuous Title & Abilities: When a character has achieved any number of Humility points, he is considered to have achieved a certain step on the path of Humility.
    When a player moves his cursor over the Humility symbol, a title will be displayed, indicating the step currently achieved in Humility for that character.
    First step: Seeker of Humility
    Second step: Follower of Humility
    [Added 051101] Third step: Knight of Humility
    [Removed 051101] Third step: Guardian of Humility
    Players who progress any number of steps on the path of Humility, but do not continue to actively pursue it, may discover that this Virtuous title reduces in steps over time.
    Gaining steps in Humility will grant a character some special abilities. Players will be able to access these abilities by clicking the Humility symbol on their own Virtue gump.
    [Added 051101] First step: +5 Hit Points, +5 Mana, +5 Stamina
    [Added 051101] Second step: +10 Hit Points, +10 Mana, +10 Stamina
    [Added 051101] Third step: +20 Hit Points, +20 Mana, +20 Stamina
    [Removed 051101] First step: +10 Hit Points, +10 Mana, +10 Stamina
    [Removed 051101] Second step: +20 Hit Points, +20 Mana, +20 Stamina
    [Removed 051101] Third step: +30 Hit Points, +30 Mana, +30 Stamina
     
  23. Corwin

    Corwin Guest

    If you look at the add dates, these changes have been pending for seven-eight years.

    That is way too long.
     
  24. Fink

    Fink Guest

    I suggested a system like that some time back, lost it with the old forums I guess. :( Here's some of what I remember:

    Each virtue determines a particular attribute. Your path along a virtue determines the intensity of its attribute.

    Spirituality / Mana Regen
    Valor / Hit Point Regen
    Justice / Stamina Regen
    .
    .
    .
    I forget the rest, but basically Seeker of Spirituality gave you 1 MR, Knight of Valor gives 3 HPR, Follower of Justice gives 2 SR, and so on. The particular Virtue bonus was only given if you were wearing the corresponding part of the armour. The set bonus would stack with the individual bonuses. I had something in mind for the set bonus but it escapes me at the moment.
     
  25. Corwin

    Corwin Guest

    Honestly, I don't even really care which system they use. I just wish they would finish the system. I just want the rest of my colored virtues. We can always argue or modify the quests and/or rewards later.
     
  26. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    First and foremost if ANY Virtue gives you ITEMS (can't even stomach the idea) they better introduce Anti-Virtues giving you items.
    I totally disagree with the whole thing though, we have enough ITEMS.

    However it'd be a good idea for the Virtue Armour to receive extra properties if you're an Avatar Of The Virtues- or was it Virtue Knight or whatever..

    The whole thing is wrong though because even then Reds including myself would argue we need a Dread Knight's Armour or Guardian Armour(or name it whatever UOish name you can think of) that'd also be receiving extra properties from being high up in Anti-Virtues.

    Anyway... I just say finish the Virtues, add no items. Like they were planning to, years ago. I can live with the +30 to Stats for an hour every day.

    PS. An Anti-Virtue rewarding the killing of Blues better be included as well... ;P
     
  27. Revenant2

    Revenant2 Guest

    I'd want to see a good job done on the remaining virtues. The existing ones are all great and useful (although some are a bit quirky and not entirely perfect).
     
  28. Corwin

    Corwin Guest

    I wonder if there is any chance that they are working on finishing the virtues. We have all this stuff about the seven anti-virtue dungeons, the shadowlords working to corrupt the virtues....

    Maybe?
     
  29. Corwin

    Corwin Guest

    With the new fiction and Mysterious Stranger, it seems more and more to indicate the virtues. Any chance they would be finishing off the three missing virtues as part of the plot? Maybe someway to defeat them or get them off the realm?
     
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