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The trend of "Bigger Badder Beasty"

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Guest, Feb 19, 2008.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Challenges are great. But there is a big difference between just increasing HP's and actually making the monster more difficult.

    Perhaps the Dev team, after the things they're working on could look into further developing the monster AI. Especially the caster types.

    It should actually feel like you're fighting something that has to follow the same rules as you as far as magics go. I think if you could create a monster AI that casts spells, like the players cast spells (IE: using spells to "spell block", actually cast and see the power words and a motion of casting etc) you could actually help the PvM community understand how PvPers fight and have more of a blend between the two. And with that I think different monsters need to have different casting speeds and this needs to be represented in their Animal lore info.

    I know this would be difficult for the devs to do (I'm 1000% sure I could whoop any dev 1v1 in a mage duel) but I think with a few PvPers to help show them the ropes (Yea, I know I'm assuming the developers don't play mages intuitively as far as actual heated intense combat goes but I've never seen evidence to assume otherwise) I think we could have an amazing system in place for players to learn how to better fight mages thus helping the entire game in the scope of whats balanced and what isnt. The difference between game mechanics and player skill.

    Sorry if this post bothers anyone. I've just been really really bored today and I get to thinking about stuff like this when I'm bored.
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The AI isn't the real problem, nor do I think knowing whats coming next from one will help alot. What I do think is a problem is the super speed some of the magical monsters can cast spells at. Talk about a few casting hacks, they sure can do it. [​IMG]
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    The AI isn't the real problem, nor do I think knowing whats coming next from one will help alot. What I do think is a problem is the super speed some of the magical monsters can cast spells at. Talk about a few casting hacks, they sure can do it. [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    How can you say monster AI isn't the problem?

    When was the last time you saw them do anything intuitive other then the same basic. I mean, why can't monsters be armed with weapons and do special moves? Why don't we see what spells Lich's are casting? How come we can't interupt their spells? Why do these creatures follow different rules? I thought the goal was to unify code (atleast that was an arguement made when they added the instanced corpses to fel, which was a tragedy) to make things easier. I don't see how two sets of rules makes things simpler to work on.
     
  4. [​IMG] most monsters ... generally .... keep their yaps shut ...
    unlike humans ...
    yak yak ayk ayk kay kay kYa! Kya! ... and the ones that DO "talk" ...
    well [​IMG] lets just say ...
    seems that they CAN'T talk and fight at the same time(either) ...
    like some humans ...
    (quite a few ... arrrgh do not ki.... *plop*)

    Just saying ... [​IMG]

    Now ... if there was some "beast master" kinda skill to psychically LINK into what they're thinking ...
    *shrugs*
    Kinda back to the humans ability to "hear/read/understand" ...
    which ... well ...

    Just saying ... kinda hard to seperate "In game" from "On boards"
    (neither suffer from a shortage of ..... mmmmm .... assumption ... kinda ... sorta ... usuallly)

    course ... then again ... ...wisp's (with one known exception) DON'T speak english ...
    WHY would we assume that the silent ones ...THINK in english ...
    or that their thoughts MIGHT translate (clearly) INTO english ...

    Just saying ...

    RL ... haven't had much "success" with chimpanzees,
    gorillas, orangutans, baboons, gibbons, monkeys (many species,
    especially macaques), smaller toothed whales (especially killer whales
    or Orcas), dolphins, elephants, and pigs." (for one pass at a "top ten")
    Never mind the insect kingdom ...

    Fiction wise we gots Doctor Dolittle, Narnia, Tarzan, Timmy and lassie ...

    In game we NEED? a system bark to tell us that "a horse has decided that it no longer needs a master"
    Please ... turning grey and wandering off ... not to mention attacking ...
    Well ... just saying ... THAT should be enough of a "clue" [​IMG]

    Ya think?
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    While it would of course be silly seeing for instance, a panther with a warfork talking to you and casting spells, I'm thinking more along the lines of things why don't Evil Mage Lords "Cast" their spells.

    Why don't paragon brigands use the specials for the weapons they're holding. Or re-arm themselves when disarmed? Why don't rat archers re-arm? Why don't these things do the things WE can do? I know they have the ability to code these things to be smarted then they are. Look at the Faction Guards. They actually cast their spells. You see the spells over their head. But why the hell can't they cure poison effectively? I DP one and can walk away because I know he's not going to be able to cure it.

    Stuff like that.
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I agree that in general, combat laws should apply to players as well as NPC - with some "exceptions" to make things interesting maybe.

    As far as more awareness of NPC activity, other games have a combat log that is separate from the general chat/game environment window. So, you are advised of what other creatures/people are doing in the area. Something like that might be nice in UO, to give players more awareness without ruining RP.

    We already have "you notice so and so" blah blah blah messages, which I have always found really cute, they just don't go far enough. If they could kind of consolidate and make those sorts of messages a general part associated with mob AI/activities, and give people the option of seeing it or not, that might be nice. Some of those awareness messages would need to continue to be tied to lore skills of course, if sneakiness is going on, but there should be some universal ones.

    I would love more AI for UO NPC in general. I wish for example, the lizardmen living in the lizardman village kind of had their own activities, and didn't just mill around aimlessly waiting for me to kill and skin them. Even have animal mobs do things animals do (predators randomly attack prey animals, etc., NPC shepherds defending their flocks, those sorts of things would make UO feel a lot more like a world to be immersed in.

    -Skylark
     
  7. AncientGeek

    AncientGeek Guest

    Another major problem is that virtually all monsters are more dangerous to meele than they are to cast on at a distance or kill with archery. I think it makes sense to make ranged attacks with a minimum distance as well as maximum and some monsters with excellent meele skills and others without. This would give individuality to combat, promote diverse template design, and encourage teamwork when hunting.
     
  8. Babble

    Babble Guest

    Isn't or wasn't there code in that we could interrupt monster spells.
    About the specials I agree and see no reason why monsters cannot at least do one special move in a fight.
     
  9. Samaira

    Samaira Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
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    <blockquote><hr>

    I would love more AI for UO NPC in general. I wish for example, the lizardmen living in the lizardman village kind of had their own activities, and didn't just mill around aimlessly waiting for me to kill and skin them. Even have animal mobs do things animals do (predators randomly attack prey animals, etc., NPC shepherds defending their flocks, those sorts of things would make UO feel a lot more like a world to be immersed in.

    -Skylark

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It has always amused me when Guards call out: "I pay my taxes and still no guards?"

    /signed
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    If the AI gets improved, I would like these foe to have the same limitations I have ... if not on same screen (within line of sight) it cannot cast upon me. Nor could it cast at me around a corner, tho once cast the spell could follow me as it does now.
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Yes, I was thinking about those. I just failed to mention it.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Winder UO

    Winder UO Guest

    Im a die hard pvp'r. And i think this idea is brilliant. It might not do much for dex type monsters bar specials, but it would deffo increase the awareness of casting type characters a little bit when it comes down to prepping spells and stopping the monsters combos, and thus "train" them a bit for UO END GAME which is pvp [​IMG]:D:D

    However, a monsters casting will never be as good as a human, but it would make things alot more interresting.

    There once was this powerful guild which had this powerful magical wizard who did wonders for uo by helping prepare for publish 25, which was by far the best publish since AoS. Im sure he could be persuaded into working some of his magicz.
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Haha. no kidding.

    If I got cycled by an orcish mage (or w/e) I think...

    a. I'd literally [censored] my pants.

    b. I'd PvM more often.
     
  14. Winder UO

    Winder UO Guest

    adding cycling probably wouldnt be much of a problem, but it would become rather predictable after a while. I cant really say i'd pvm more often but i sure would find it pretty damn cool.
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    There are multiple cycles =P
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Well as far as I cant tell, you cant interrupt monsters. If they are going to get smarter, they also need to be interrupted.

    Smart is good.
    Freakishly fast casting isnt smart.

    Id like to see AI go up and monsters fight as party. Archers and Mage key in on a player.

    Id also like to see running through monsters diminish. Loss staminia each time.

    The fact i can run through an entire champ spawn, is wrong. I should tire out.
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    There is only one thing that truely URKS me about monster AI..... and that's the monsters X-Ray Vision.... I can't cast on them nor can I "See" them from the other side of a mountain..... but they sure know I'm coming from 3 screens away.... and they teleport right on top of me or come bounding over from parts unknown to kill me.... Even teleporting 2 floors up or down..... to kill me.... Funny I can't do that..... Try fighting in Blackthorn's Illsh and you'll see what I mean. I don't think Monsters should be teleporting between floors... Nor do I think they should be teleporting threw walls... I'm not allowed to do that..... they shouldn't be either. I can see Teleporting across a large room.... sure maybe their teleport is a bit better than mine .... but threw walls and floors??? NO.
     
  18. Doubleplay

    Doubleplay Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
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    Hmmmm

    "Now ... if there was some "beast master" kinda skill to psychically LINK into what they're thinking ...
    *shrugs*
    Kinda back to the humans ability to "hear/read/understand" ...
    which ... well ..."

    Such a skill would be useful in interpretation of some Stratics messages in RL too.