In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.
Discussion in 'UHall' started by Thangorodrim, Sep 26, 2009.
I admit the cursor changes, but otherwise there is absolutely no indication given.
i wish the dev's would give us some sort of indication as to whether this will remain or if they intend to change it. i hate pvp and so do most others, so to get ganked while in trammel is a bit silly.
you can't get ganked while in trammel unless it's by a warring guild or your own.
and there is a sound, there's a 1/2 second of deep organs that play.
When going from Tram to the chaos deamon spawn, cant remember the name off hand, its like going over a server line, plus theres the music change also.
Maybe the OP has their sound turned off
Regardless, it has been stated by EA/Mythic Employees on this board, the lack of a Gump/Window warning that you are about to enter a PvP zone and require you to acknowledge as such has been stated to be a bug, that will be rectified.
Three Weeks and counting and no change
Please don't hijack the thread into suggestions of incompetence. The point is that its possible to enter non-con pvp areas without an obvious indication.
I got jumped and turned gray when I discovered this, but its not a big deal to me, I don't even think I was looted. I do know people, however, who would be incredibly upset if they got pk'd in this manner.
For the record:
I have all audio on, as I always do.
I triple checked and get no audible indication. I then recalled to felucca and got the usual 'scary peekays' sound.
This is entering the new undead spawn on LS.
Unless something's changed in the last few days, you hear the "Fel music" in the corridor to one of the Abyss champion spawn areas but not in the other one. Tested it on the same night with the same character and no logging out in between. The headstones and bones on the ground and push-through are additional clues. However, if you never or rarely go to Fel, you may not notice the characteristic litter on the ground and if you're running down the corridor alone or ahead of others, you won't pick up on the push-through issue until you get to the spawn.
Define "obvious" please.
I am thinking that a cursor change is pretty damn obvious. Ofc I realize that a cursor change as obvious as it may be is not the same mindless security that has been provided the last few years but oh well. MMORPG Life is hard and if you are asleep at the wheel bad things can happen.
Define "audible indication" please.
I am thinking that the change to "Felucca" sound that everyone else hears is kinda obvious.
I guess though that you would prefer something more obvious like a Dev taking the Red-eye to your house and tapping you on the nuts when you are about to enter any type of area that involves actual risk?
indeed, not to insult but its already obvious when you enter fel, if your so scared of Fel then you should recognize when youve entered it. still dont understand how you unknowingly turned grey and got jumped.
I just checked again and confirmed that it is the Primeval Lich champ spawn entrance (the one that is near the Silver Sapling room) that provides no "big Fel dramatic organ chord" sound as you run through the entrance to the tunnel in the Abyss. You definitely get the "Being perfectly rested, you shove them out of the way" message if you happen to walk through a pet or another character once you're in the tunnel, but there's no sound. If you go in the entrance to the tunnel to the Abyssal Inferno champ spawn, you will hear the organ sound as soon as you step inside, if you have sound effects turned on.
Who said anything about being grey?
Did I not specifically indicate that I could care less about being ganked at a spawn? Here is a little clue - I play on siege as well. Can you process the dichotomy between that and being 'scared of Fel?'
The point is that the "already obvious" part of entering non-con pvp areas is not working right in the abyss.
I am not sure how I could make it more clear.
I don't think I've ever seen my cursor change colors when I've gone to Fel.
Thank you Tina for confirming this.
I worked both spawns for a while last night and got the same results as you indicate above; entering Abyssal I got the claxon, no claxon for Lich.
Which client are you using?
Its broken. Which is the point of the initial post. I am continually amazed at the caveman like cognition on these boards.
There ya go...
i get the 'entering fel rules' noise when i cross over.
Oh, gray, as in ghost; I did not survive the assault. My apologies for being unclear.
Ah-ha! You got jumped and *saw* grey! Makes much more sense now.
For my part, the cursor color change in EC is barely noticeable to me, and has been for years. Being colorblind makes hue changes somewhat imperceptible sometimes. I, as well, usually play without sound. So this is something that *might* affect me were it not for one thing.
I play Siege.
Don't take that statement as meaning I am uber or all-powerful over production shard players. It simply means that, in my experience, Siege players are more aware of their surroundings and the areas they are working in. More than once I've tried to help a production player on Siege and watched them run around willy-nilly without a care as to where they are stepping or stumbling.
It also means that I can be killed before *or* after crossing that boundary
This issue is thus by definition not one that impacts you, unless you also play one of the production shards as well.
The team has stated that there's supposed to be a warning gump, the same way there is for every other way of entering Felucca.
If they have changed their minds, they need to let us know, so that people wandering the Abyss are aware that they can accidentally stumble into Felucca, and will be able to take special precautions against it.
"Because the Abyss is a particularly evil place, the boundaries between Felucca and Trammel are weaker than in other places. Therefore, take care, because it's possible to pass into Felucca without immediately recognizing it."
And then we can discuss whether or not it's a good idea for it to work that way! But that's different from pointing out that things aren't working as they are allegedly supposed to.
If, on the other hand, they have not changed their mind, and they still intend for there to be a warning gump, like there is for any other way of getting into Felucca, they need to fix it very soon, because there is great potential for alienation here.
The vast majority of the players never seem to go to Felucca, and this thread really reveals why. Note how quickly the Fellies go to the insults.
"Things aren't working like they are supposed to."
"Incompetent! Noob! Trammie care bear! We know you're care bears because even the UO Producer said you were! Ha!"
"I'm just saying things aren't working like they are supposed to."
"Incompetent! What, do you want the devs to take the red eye to your hosue every time you enter a place that involves actual risk?" (Close paraphrase from this very thread.)
"I'm just saying things aren't working like they are supposed to."
If you just look at the replies to this thread you'll see that I'm not really exaggerating all that much. Sad, but true. And impossible to deny without out and out lying.
I'm sorry! I forgot that Siege players are lower-class individuals who are not allowed to have an opinion on certain subjects, nor post their thoughts on them.
Please forgive me!
Text strings from latest client patch
You are about to enter a PvP area, where you can be attacked and stolen from by other players. Do you wish to proceed?
No, I do not wish to proceed
Yes, I wish to proceed
Yes, and do not ask me again
You may use your avatar's context menu to re-enable the warning later.
Enable PvP Warning
Your PvP warning query has been re-enabled.
Woah. I really like that approach.
Are you serious? Ok, so one of the enterances might not being playing the right music or giving cursors changes, but is it really all that hard to figure out where you are? Maybe to someone who is travelling the Underwold for the first time it would be hard to tell you've "crossed over", but I am sure by now with all the Underwold maps that are out, people can check before entering where they are. Also, if you are hunting with a group, I am sure there are people who have already figured this out and should be able to warn others in their guild or group before they enter a spawn area. =/
I'm not meaning to sound like a b**** or anything, but there comes a point where people should have to use their instincts a little more and not be warned with every little step they take.
Thank you for being so much more articulate than me, as this was the meaning I was trying (horribly) to convey. Knowing your surroundings is key in this game, and I for one am sick of dev time being taken up to hold someone's hand who can't do their research.
What color does the cursor change to and from? I don't think I've ever noticed this.
What sound? I haven't turned the sound on when I play in about 8 years.
Regardless......these are not obvious.
I will admit the music thing is a little off sometimes. I use to play with the music off, but the music in SA is kinda cool lol. Regardless, I know sometimes when I have entered Despise or any area in Fel the music doesnt always play or it will only play in certain areas. I've heard it might have to do with UOA, but I dont know.
There are still plenty of resources out there that allow players to check before they go somewhere they dont want to. Tina's map is perfect for this, I actually wish I could pull it up in game sometimes.
I dont know if the new map in the enhanced client tags where certain things are, but if not, then maybe they can add something on the new map to show where everything is, but this again leads to some "hand holding" of sorts. The cursor is suppose to change from silver to a red color, but for people who are color blind or have problems with their eyesight, they shouldnt have to depend on the cursor.
Big give away to both of the champ spawn areas when you enter from Tram, is the long winding path that leads from the enterance to the spawn. Theres also the fact that both spawn areas are huge and wide open, like big bowls, which isnt typical of any other area in the Underground. When you enter the lich spawn, its like crossing a server line, your stats go a lil wonky for a second, just like crossing any other server line. I havent entered the Abyssal spawn from Tram, so I am not sure if it does the same thing, but I imagine it would.
Then it's a good thing that the Dev's don't share your one sided, myopic point of view. Why should you care if a warning gump is put in or not? It obviously has no affect on you unless you happen to be one of those PK's that enjoy taking advantage of others. The Dev's have already said the lack of a warning gump was an oversight and will be put in as advertised, so it's a non-issue at this point anyway. Besides, with the size of the Abyss, it's not that hard to get yourself lost, especially if you're playing in 2d instead of the EC.
Sometimes those entrances have PKs right on the other side. You're dead before you even get a chance to realize you're in a Fel enviroment.
I've also heard of people deliberately leading others into those areas, pretending not to know that they're Fel champ spawns. And that they have a bunch of friends waiting on the other side for new victims.
I am a bit confused as to how a thread regarding an acknowledged bug that the dev's have stated their intent to change/fix can degenerate to Fel/Tram bickering. I am a PvP'er. I still do not see the issue. It was STATED that the warning would be there, and that it is a bug that it isnt. End of story.
As for my personal opinion: I feel that these Tram entrances/exits to Fel areas are a huge mistake. I said so in beta and I still think so. There should NOT be a possibility for someone who is in a champ area to run to Tram, where at least part of the participants cannot follow, without having to be bound to heat of battle. A gate would be preferable to these passages because it would follow the "heat of battle" rules.
It's quite simple really.
Your fellow PvPers like the possibility of someone unknowingly entering Felucca and have decided to make this some kind of banner issue. For your comrades, fixing the admitted bug is some kind of indication of hand-holding or avoidance of risk, and all of the traditional straw bogeymen that have been held up over the years.
If you look around at the various threads on this issue, I am unable to recall a single post by a PvPer, until yours, that treated fixing the bug as fixing the bug. Every other Fellie that's posted whose post I can recall has treated fixing the bug as though something were being taken away from Fel.
The only conclusion that's reasonable is that your community finds value in the possibility of someone stumbling unawares into Felucca.
So to go back to your original question: Because your community chose to make it into that.
I have to agree with Ailish on this, Galen.
When I start down one of those corridors, I would be much more comfortable knowing that anyone I encounter knows EXACTLY where they are and the rules that apply. In other words, if I want to be in a "shoot first, ask questions later" frame of mind when I'm going to or leaving a spawn, I don't want to later be asking myself if I might have just smacked someone who really had no idea what was going on and possibly ruined their whole evening.
I don't want to have to waste time dealing with the poseurs who want to fool me into thinking they are some poor innocent who stumbled into the tunnel by accident.
The reason I made the post, after the fact, is that what I read indicated the bug was that a gump was not appearing. I was under the impression that the audible warning was implemented and functioning properly, however, at least for some it is not.
This is a good point.
I play Fel and I play Tram, but I still think people should be aware of their surroundings. I thought the music changes, server line cross overs and cursor changes would be enough, but I guess they arent.
They are going to fix it either way, eventually. I just think players should take some of the responsibility into their own hands and make themselves aware of where they are before travelling, esp. since they know there are champ spawn enterances in the Underworld.
For me personally, the main issue is that I am impecunious in game and have cursed gear. Obviously, on a non-siege shard I am not going to use cursed equipment in a pk area.
Also, however, I know that there are people (e.g., my wife) who can become very upset at getting pkd. Contrary to all the sophistry in this thread, in the EC at least, there is essentially no indication that a player is subject to non-con when entering the spawn area. No aspect of the scenery really stands out as any different from other abyss themes and push through is less obvious in the EC.
Folks should remember that the majority of the player base does not read lurk about in stratics. Also, some people want to explore the new lands without spoiling everything beforehand by perusing documentation.
To get back to the point, apparently the lack of a gump is a known issue, but also the audible warning is not consistently presenting.
Let's not make it into yet another Tram-Fel-Siege debate...
how about you stop relying on devs to tell you where you are due to your own incompetance of simple navigation.
All comes down to the insult.
The plain fact is that this is not working as intended.
Thank you, however, for displaying so well the mentality that warning gumps are made to avoid exposing the more benign players to!
I assume that by the us in "let us" you mean the Fellies who have repeatedly posted personal insults in this thread?
Because until they posted, this was a threat about an acknowledged bug, as far as I can tell, only that and nothing more.
Its 2 places with clear "entry" ways. Learn where those TWO spots are, dont go in the door and you'll be fine.
Took me all of ... my first trip to abyss to know where they were.
Perhaps you wouldn't be insulted so often were you to not tell people in which threads their own interests lie. Telling me an issue doesn't impact me because I play Siege is insulting in it's own right.
Tend to your own garden, sir.
Actually I'm 11 years here in UO and I never noticed the cursor change from Tram to Fel... and yes, I do utilize both facets.
I'm a little colored blind to the change in colors of the hand when enter these locations, lucky for me it was during the day and I was in stealth mode. I had no clue I was in a PvP area, being it was my first time exploring this area. But as soon as I did I went looking for an exit, now I really wish they give you a choice of exits like moongates instead of dropping you in Felucca Lost Lands. The LONG walk to a exit to Felucca Brit lands to recall home, I really did not need after this.
Drakelord you could have just as easily gone right back out the way you came in you didn't have to take the sparkles.. They are the exit for reds since they can not enter or exit through the Abyss..