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Thieves are lousy PvP characters!

Discussion in 'UO Crime' started by Wahooka, Nov 25, 2010.

  1. Wahooka

    Wahooka Guest

    The thief primarily has one purpose: to steal and accumulate gold and treasure. Making your thief into some sort of assassin or pvp killer makes absolutely no sense at all.

    4 or 5 of your skills are devoted to stealing and stealth... that leaves 2 or 3 skills at best to devote to something else...

    What sort of effective PvP character can you really be?

    Or you can water down your thief, take away his essential skills and then he is not going to be very effective at stealing.

    You can't be all things in life.. you can't be a rock star and an accountant...

    You have to choose!
     
  2. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    I see you miss the point of pvp thieves. Anyway, 2 skills are devoted to stealth (viable pvp character templates abound) 1 skill is devoted to actually stealing (stealing) and 1 is devoted to a support thief skill which is not "required" but is best to have it if you plan on stealing. The other 2-4 skills are mostly defensive, although if you got real crafty you could easily fit 5 more skills. You can in fact be a rock star and an accountant, bad metaphor :p. I did not explain the point here but simply pointing out the possibilities, the pvp part is player vs player not player kill player, basically you steal from other players and if you must kill them. Stealing from players alone will make it pvp.
     
  3. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    This be it. PvP thief simply means you steal from players, not restricting ones self to picking up those items in dungeons. We are the REAL thieves.

    OP:
    A thief only needs stealing. Snooping makes it a bit easier. You DON'T need hiding or stealth. It is quite possible to be a decent in fighting if you only have stealing. It really isn't that hard to open a pack with no skill put into snooping. It just makes the target aware and they might start moving :p
     
  4. Wahooka

    Wahooka Guest

    If only stealing is required, why does EVERY SINGLE thief template on this forum and the other forum have:

    Stealing
    Stealth
    Hiding
    Snooping

    I can't find any templates that dont have it..
     
  5. Dryzzid of Atlantic

    Dryzzid of Atlantic Journeyman
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    I want your money, not your life ;)
     
  6. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Does it really matter? Is it really that big of a deal to you or are you here mainly to troll? Sheesh.

    Just saying it is possible with only stealing. Most of us will run with stealth templates because it just makes stealing easier, especially when it comes to champ spawns. If you just have stealing and rest combat than obviously the bigger goal fighting off the people who you steal from. It is good for some areas but it wont work very well in champ spawns because it usually leads to everyone either leaving out of paranoia or everyone attacking you and loosing out on the scrolls if you come in at the wrong time. Champ spawns are where the money is due to the scrolls and stealth thieving is the best way to get them.
     
  7. ohmyGED

    ohmyGED Visitor

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    It all depends on your style of play --- do you want to evade your opponent after a steal, or tackle them head to head? Typically in a PvP setting....it is RARELY going to be a 1vs1 encounter (especially at a spawn)....so it is a better investment to use your skills that will help you get away from your marks.

    However, if you are into more of a "thug thief" type of template....and don't care about getting away in a stealthy manner.....all you "really" need to invest in is stealing (and I would also recommend snooping if you care about what you are stealing)....then the choice is yours on your PvP style.

    Without items, that's 220 skills points that are invested.....you have 500 more that can fit in a pretty decent template. Add some skill based items and you be able to hold your own.
     
  8. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    My thief has fencing/poisoning. Shadowstrike has saved my life many times. Also, if you DP an assailant, they sometimes stop to cast arch cure, giving you time to escape.

    Besides, thieving requires a lot of waiting around. Killing bots occasionally breaks up the monotony.
     
  9. A Rev

    A Rev Guest

    Aside from everyone elses comments which are correct.

    What you see in those 4 skills is probably 480 skill points??

    What a good thief sees is a maximum of 330 skill points.

    So you now have 370 skill points to put in offense (as a minimum, to me anyway) To be honest you can get ALOT more skill points and still make a very effective thief. Most templates i would ever suggest would be made of a around 800 skill points.
     
  10. chrae

    chrae Guest

    For what it's worth, I never used stealth in all the years I played as a borrower. I found that blending in was more effective. For example: Champ Spawns. Instead of hiding and stealthing around while people work up the champ, I would put on my most trammel looking outfit, a disguise kit to change my name, and dye my hair and try to get some trammel folk to do a spawn with me. I would contribute to the spawn with my magery and be helpful and heal the others. That way, I can be visible the whole time if I want to be, no one is paranoid about my proximity when the champ drops. If you're lucky, the person who got the sweet scroll will message you about it. When you're looking for action, the question then isn't "Where is the action at? Who is doing a champ?", it's "I'm where the action is at, who do I want to be my marks?"

    Tamers were my other source of income. All my good items came to me from tamers. They're always loaded with fresh, uninsured items and usually a lot of gold. They also have to dedicate skill slots to their trade so that makes them easier to kill. They're the type of player you can just slap in the face and take their things , "Whacha gonna do?" like a thug. They are usually Trammel-educated so dealing with them is easy.

    Stealth is fine if you have a lot of patience and don't mind being passive about your strategy. But I always felt that leaving stealth out enables you to be more proactive because you can start the action. And if you're bored just remember, Mages are easier to kill once you got their garlic.
     
  11. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    I am guessing the OP never saw chadsexingtons site and all his works and adventures? Really, there is so much you can do with a thief template.
     
  12. Wahooka

    Wahooka Guest

    When I made this thread, I thought PvP meant the killing of other players...

    My point was that you can't be a good assassin or ninja type character and also be a thief..

    But maybe this template would work:

    Stealing
    Stealth
    Ninjitsu
    Poisoning
    Hiding
    Fencing
    Tactics

    So we dropped snooping off the list... biggest problem with this character is you can't pick locks or look into people's backpacks, and you can't heal..

    Oh, and no alchemy or tailor, which I heard helps with being an assassin..

    By the way, I noticed that only 1 of the templates on Chad Sexington's site has stealth. How strange!

    Also, its great to have 800 skill points but I assume you need special gear + items to achieve that.
     
  13. Chad Sexington

    Chad Sexington Lore Master
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    I've had Stealth on every single thief template I've ever played after 2000. Very strange!

    Drop Tactics for Snooping and use items to get more Magery if you're going with that template -- or drop Poison and just use shurikens. Deathstrikes and poison can be surprisingly effective against people who aren't pvpers, people who are still training, or people who are idle for a few seconds before they wake up. You shouldn't be picking fights with anyone else.

    Here's my Siege template with 720 total skill:

    120 Stealing
    100 Snooping
    100 Hiding
    75 Stealth
    120 Ninjitsu
    106 Magery
    99 Tracking

    Look here for template ideas: The Thief Forum FAQ

    :fight:
     
  14. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    My template looks like this:

    Stealing
    Hiding
    Stealth
    Ninja
    Fencing
    Poison
    Magery

    Have 2/6 casting and an SC kryss for DP. Can chug pots and, if need be, hit wolf form and book it. He can't assassinate PvPers, but he can kill tamer and miner bots.

    Tony Emerald was using something similar that could potentially work for a thief/assassin. He didn't use it very long, but I think it looked like this:

    Stealing
    Hiding
    Stealth
    Ninja
    Archery
    Tactics
    Chiv (4/6 casting)
     
  15. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Then you were wrong...la
     
  16. Nonel

    Nonel Sage
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    Thieves do alright in PvP. Though I find the fencer templates to be overrated as far as killing ability. They are more for the insta-stealth from shadow strike. Wrestling, stealing their healing methods, and bolas will make you a useful team player.

    I've essentially kept the same template as the pre-AoS days. Wrestle disarm thief. Except I dropped arms lore for ninjitsu, and took advantage of power scrolls. I manage to get some kills here and there with it.

    After stealing their bandies and pots, a combination of shurikens/darts and potions can be really effective. Death strike along with the basic human track can give you 40 damage per punch. You also get the disarm and paralyze special on the side with wrestling. Get creative and you can kill people. No-skill items like shurikens and bola are great. Wrestling will allow you to easily disrupt mages.

    The suicide frog bomber is a fun one, if they are dexxers. Steal their cure methods, smack 'em with a bola, go to frog form, and prime a bunch of explosion pots in your pack with alchemy. If your HP is high enough you may even survive after killing them. :)

    I snapped a few shots of some kills a while back:

    Kills by a thief pictures by NonelTopd - Photobucket
     
  17. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Ahh, pvp with a thief just brought on a fun memory of the pre-insurance days. Disarm/steal their weapons, trap them &
    steal their aids and wrestle them to death, lol!
     
  18. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
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    wrestle 100
    magery 110
    necro 110
    stealing 120
    stealth 80
    snoop 100
    hiding 100


    You'd be surprised how effective a rev + pain spike can be to a disarmed person when they're not expecting it, also wraith form = :heart: while stealin' (you can't be bumped and it's one of the forms you can steal from) :)

    I don't really use magery for much other than invis (when in a bind and can't hide) and teleport.
     
  19. Stickypaws

    Stickypaws Journeyman

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    There was a bugger of an assassin on Europa called Xieli. Skills I new were at least :

    100 hiding
    80 stealth
    100 spirit speak
    40 necro
    110 ninjitsu

    leaves what... 290 skill points on a normal vets character...

    She started out killing people on the rez with pain spikes in Magincia. Lame you may say, but assassin like I guess.

    She stopped doing it for some time. One day, I saw her name as I TPed to Wind one day. I wandered down and had a scrap with some Solens when another name came on the screen. I hid and followed him for a bit. It took me nearly 10 minutes to get his backpack open. He just kept moving. I finally get it open when I notice hes drowning a bit in Solens. Theres a very short and sudden In Sar from next to me. His corpse falls to the floor and Xieli wanders over and loots him.

    She had stopped with the rez kills at Magincia and become a patient and violent assassin (or at least stalking and killing people is in my opinion what an assassin is).

    Theres more than enough room on that template for stealing and snooping, and if your patient you can still be a murderous assassin.
     
  20. Mairut

    Mairut Guest

    You get 70 free points with the leggings and bandana.

    If you were able to get a good imbued ring and bracelet, you could have at least 70 more points to play with.

    =840-860 depending on what your cap is.
     
  21. Obviously none of you have fought me while I played all those years...