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This game has some interesting features, but...

Discussion in 'Shroud of the Avatar Discussion Hall' started by kronides, Jun 6, 2014.

  1. kronides

    kronides Lore Keeper
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    I am afraid the hex system / no-open-world might just be a game killer for me. I'm still following it, although there is no chance at this point the hex system will change, maybe it won't end up being as bad as I think it is. But I'm definitely holding out on donating until more information is in.
     
  2. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Personally, what kills the game for me is the pricing structure which, if I understood it correctly, will not require a monthly subscription fee but the purchasing of items, house lots, mounts and so forth throughout game play.

    This, together with the circumstance that housing lots are going to be limited and, depending on players' participation to the game, possibly very, very scarce as compared to the number of players wanting them, will result for many players in either having to play the game without the possibility to have a house or have to pay considerable amounts of real money in order to be able to have a house in the game to play with.

    What if I spend a lot of money to secure the possibility to have a home and then for whatever reasons I do not like the game ? Or what if I pro-rate my initial expenditure in the game over a number of years to come up with a monthly cost of game play that to me sounds acceptable but then the game for whatever reasons does not last that long ?

    Personally, I prefer much more games with a monthly subscription fee structure that opens up the player to the entire content of the game leaving only a few, marginal things not really important to play the game competitively, to be purchased outside of the monthly subscription. I just do not like that feeling that if I want to play the game competitively relating myself to other players, I then have to buy this or that special game item and continuously spend money in micro purchases here and there which, in the end, all add up.....

    Why can't there be BOTH options ? A monthly (or tri-monthly or 6-monthly or whatever term) subscription that enables the player to any and all content of the game (no need to buy any item important to game play outside of the subscription fee) and then another form of pricing, on a side, with no monthly subscription but purchases for items needed to play the game according to what the player might be or not interested to buy and leave it to the player the choice of which pricing structure they may want to go with ?

    This could perhaps work with account bound items (not transferable through accounts to avoid accounts paying for a subscriptions to get them as drops and then transfer them to accounts which do not pay for a subscription....) which the accounts which pay for the subscription will be able to get through normal game play as drops or craftables (only to their account being account bound), while the accounts which choose not to go with the subscription fee, will not be able to receive them as drops or to craft them (the game would inhibit their chance at these items' drops or to craft them...) and they will have to purchase them through the store if they want them...

    Also, I always enjoyed crafting in multi-player online games but now, with the most recent changes announced to characters' slots per account, it is my understanding that it will be possible to have also a second and a third character per account which, I am afraid, will make it possible for many players to be self sufficient in their crafting needs thus probably not needing to resort to other players for their crafting needs. This, I am concerned, will reduce a lot the market for crafters as the demand for crafted items could be much less. At least, they could have indicated that no matter how many characters an account might have (1 or 2 or 3), the player must specify whether they want that account (and thus all characters part of that account) be a fighting or crafting account which would mean, only being able to reach the highest levels of abilities for whatever "experteese" one wants the character to excel (crafting or fighting). This could, perhaps, at least have reduced the impact of additional crafting characters on a mainly fighting account, because they would have not been able to reach the highest crafting abilities thus leaving to players who want to specilize on crafting and excel on it with their game account, to still have a reasonable market of other players to sell their exceptionally crafted wares....

    Though, on a second thought, also this change would have not helped much in a game without a monthly subscription pricing structure because it would not be difficult for players with a main fighting account, if there were limitations on crafting on it, to just open up a second account for crafting.....

    Bottom line is, there are things which I like in this game but, unfortunately, there are many things and also important ones for me, which I cannot like nor accept as they have been described or announced and they still, unfortunately, keep me away from wanting to play this game.
     
    #2 popps, Jun 7, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2014
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  3. kronides

    kronides Lore Keeper
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    Yes! It's exactly why I haven't pledged. Frankly, I think all those people who blindly pledged hundreds and thousands of dollars because they thought RG was making a UO2 were behaving very foolishly. And now, a lot of those people have left in a rage, because he isn't making UO2. Not even close. Not even in the same galaxy, really. Heck, it isn't even really an MMO! And definitely not a sandbox. Why on Earth would anyone *ever* think that that was what he doing? It is true that he let people believe things like this, but they also should have known better.

    And I agree with you Popps, I'm not paying a lot of money for a house in an unproven game, especially now with the hexes, which means that player towns are, for all practical purposes and despite their cries to the contrary, "instanced." No thanks.

    I'll keep an eye on SotA for a while still, but I can't help being highly skeptical.
     
  4. Kirthag

    Kirthag Former Stratics Publisher
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    Guys, I understand your misgivings. Plenty of people who are simply just following the updates or reading the public boards have many misgivings. What Portalarium is doing is groundbreaking... most game studios would _never_ EVER release information at this stage of development except to only the chosen few who are testing. Believe me, in the world of game development - what RG & his team are doing is a complete 180 from the norm.

    And that is why there are a whole lot of Negative Nancys out there.



    First, the game (so far) has proved to be a mix of instance/stand-alone/MMO.

    I run into town in MMO mode and I see people all over the place. We chat, make arrangements to go into a dungeon, fight baddies, die, laugh, return to the town and drink in the tavern with yet more people.
    Now, we might not see _everyone_ who is logged into the game at that specific moment standing at the same coordinate as we are, but there are ways to join other instances via party mode. We've tested this out quite a lot, bringing people to various parties. Right now (during Pre-Alpha stages) I believe the instances are limited to about 60 players or so. That's cool... for pre-alpha! I play other games and I constantly compare the instancing to the Ragnarok Online 2 game (RO2). There, players are in channels. They can jump between channels to interact with other players, and do so for the most part to sell/buy. I believe the same thing will be done in SotA. Is it a huge mess of pixels like UO? No.. and it has been plainly stated time and time again it won't be that way. Perhaps for special events there might be adjustments to the servers, but otherwise, it was clearly stated from the get go that there are limitations to the MMO aspect. Right now it is scaled down a bit, but when the game is released I'm sure instances will be a bit broader than they are now.

    The hex map is very old-skool D&D & on a personal level I'm still mixed about it. Random instances haven't been worked into the mix yet, but I believe they will be. So traveling across the hex-map won't be all that boring. Entering a Player-Town (hex) will be determined by the person (or group) who owns that hex. Granted, this will kinda kill the random, out-of-the-blue siege wars I've witnessed in UO Player Towns (PaxLair for example), but of course it really depends on the participants. I also believe (sometime in the future) that random sieges will be incurred on Player Towns by the system. After all, I'm sure the undead will be restless from time to time.

    PvP gaming is still being debated in the Dev+ forums... but I see a light at the end of the tunnel. Not sure how it will all turn out - but there are literally thousands of posts regarding PvP in this game. Thieving? Not sure how that will be either. I will say there is already a super-secret-assassin guild out there. *secretly hopes they don't find out I said that*

    If you do not want to donate, that is your prerogative. I will say the game is not totally instanced as is done with dungeons in WoW (I've had random players run around in dungeons I've entered) nor is it completely Sandboxed - but it is more sandbox than a whole slew of games out there.

    And having the ability to play in Solo Mode is really nice. There are time, you have to admit, that you just don't want to deal with anyone. And with crafting.. that is even more the case.

    When RG announced SotA, he made it _very_ clear that this is a "spiritual successor" to Ultima, _not_ another Ultima Online. I've played the Ultima series (actually just found another Ultima game in boxes from storage! WOW!) and yes, from what I've seen of the _systems_ in place, this game very much has the same feel as the Ultima series did. It has that magick meets science flair that several of the latter Ultima games had. People chose to believe what they wanted, and after several announcements and Google Hangouts and thread posts, yes - some people got upset, the majority did not. SotA is not a game for everyone - my sons utterly despise it (so they went back to Halo) - but for many this is a game they believe they will like, especially those that have played the old-school RPGs like Ultima, Curse of Ra, and others.

    There's been no story arc released in the game for it is not a "game" yet - it is "a game in the making" and that is what I think a lot of people do not understand. I see it constantly in the statements people make.

    I've given a lot of my hard earned money to Portalarium because I believe in what they are doing. I've played a few of their other titles, and I see those systems in play with SotA. I'm not an evangelist, there are things I don't really agree with. Until the official release... well, all I can do is contribute my opinion, request for features, and participate in the discussions the helps drive the development while testing during the Pre-Alpha releases and posting my results. I will say that SotA is one of the most publicly developed games in the market right now and it is far from being a polished game. I'm sure there are people who will scream foul or cry loudly over the path of development, but why waste that energy when there isn't even a beta date?! I donated because of the people involved with the project: RG, Starr Long, and especially Tracy Hickmann. I donated because I am excited to see a hybrid game being developed. I donated because I wanted an inside look at the conversations in the Dev+ side. I continue to contribute because what I see here jives most with what I want in a game.

    If I lose my money - well, yes, it will hurt. However I believe my investment will pay off greatly if it succeeds which will far outweigh any disappointment should it fail. It is more for the enjoyment of the game, not the rewards of pixels I get. Is like reading a really good book only finding out I have to buy the entire series to get fulfillment - and even then the story doesn't end. Is my $500+ worth that?

    You should see my personal library....
     
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  5. kronides

    kronides Lore Keeper
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    Hi Kirthag,

    Right, I hear you. And I agree that he always said it was not going to be UO2. It was never going to be a Red / PK game like 1999, Garriot was never a big pvp / pk guy (he's an RP), he was I think surprised and frankly dismayed at how UO turned out (he drastically underestimated games like UO's pull on the mentally imbalanced but at that time, no one knew any better), this is all easily found out by doing a little history and study of the subject BEFORE you donate a bunch of money because you think Garriot makes pk games and other people ruin them. That is why I said those people were very foolish above. IMO UO never would have been like that either, if he had it to do over with today's knowledge. But I hate dealing with counterfactuals so that's enough of that.

    And look...I didn't come to this game's forum just to hate on it, I'd never do that. In fact I WANT to be convinced, I'm not sure if I can be. I'm not convinced of the hex system, the no-open-world I care for not at all. The PvP system is a go with me, at least the last I read, in Starr's megapost. Yes to housing, no to instancing it. Just don't have it at all in that case. I don't know, I'm on the fence. I'm waiting to see what develops, and I wouldn't be doing that if I weren't interested. =)
     
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  6. Kirthag

    Kirthag Former Stratics Publisher
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  7. Noldor

    Noldor Knight, Order of the Bug Hunters
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    I've pledged but I can't afford all the extras. I tried to convince old gaming guild friends to come to SotA..but once they saw the prices, the quickly nixed the idea.

    It looks like I'll be a pauper in-game for a long while...before I can afford the expensive housing options.

    TQQdles™
     
  8. Kirthag

    Kirthag Former Stratics Publisher
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    There will be ways to earn housing and other extras in the game once it goes public. Yes, it will take time, and help.
     
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  9. kronides

    kronides Lore Keeper
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    That part actually doesn't bother me. Some of the things are far more expensive than I will ever buy, don't get me wrong, but I know why they have to do it. It's a crowd-funded game, and they need the money so that they don't have to have support from a big corporation that will push them to make a WoW-like themepark. I'd rather pay myself (alongside other backers of course) and get a good, deep game than have investors (who couldn't care less about the game, only its net results) pay and give us a themepark, like we really need another one of those.
     
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