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[Imbuing] This is how I get my relics from crafted items:

Discussion in 'UO Craftsman' started by MYUO, Mar 21, 2010.

  1. MYUO

    MYUO Guest

    Just spent some time today to figure out how to get relics from crafted items. Thanks for fellow players' info on this forum, I was able to come up with some reasonable result:

    I use Bronze runic hammer to make valorite leafblade of peace, which always has UBWS (1.4 weighted). With 3 mods from the hammer and 1 DI, most of the leafblades had 5 mods. Unraveling 20 leafblades yields 20 relics and 19 essences. Item ID on this batch only showed 1 leafblade gives relic but there are mulitple leafblades have close to or more than 500 intenisty on the imbuing screen. I think the item ID may not reflect some bonuses (e.g. queen forge, valorite material, etc. for unraveling), rather, it just shows the intensities for imbuing.

    Anyway, with this method, I can get all the tools and resource by my chars. However, if I buy everything needed on chessy at luna vendors, the cost would be around 40-50k each relic.

    I will be more than glad to see what anyone else's strategies are. One thing for sure, it is pretty much impossible to imbue and unravel for relics economically. That 0.8 to 0.7 change really killed the possibility.
     
  2. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    So far, any method for crafting items that unravel for relics has been nerfed, unless the method requires some runic use and rare ingredients such as ML gems and recipe weapons.

    Any other methods discovered, if indeed there are any left, are being closely guarded.

    I use the same method you do except I craft the Knight's War Cleaver. It's most economical for me because I mine my own ore and gems.
     
  3. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Did you mean the Leafblade of Ease rather then Peace ?
    The one crafted with a perfect emerald and 12 ingots ?

    One question.

    Did you decide on the leafblade after evaluating a number of other craftables ?
    Why did you settle on this rather than some other ?

    Also, you only evaluated runic hammers or also runic tools for other skills like sewing or fletching kits or runic saws ?

    I am just curious to see if you just picked one craftable or you actually did some in depth evaluation before settling with this particular one.....
     
  4. MYUO

    MYUO Guest


    Yeah, it was leafblade of ease. It was like 5am after 8 hours' of various UO activities when I was typing that post.

    My reasonings are as follows:

    To get unraveled relic, you need your crafted item having 411% intenstiy on top of having 120 imbuing skill and queen forge. With valorite ingots, the requirement for intensity droped to 342% (411%/1.2). That is a relative tall order for non-imbued items.

    Leafblade of Ease give UBWS which is weighted 1.5 so that is translated to 150% intensity. That is a big help when your runic hammer rolled some junk modes (e.g. elemental damages, damage increase, etc.). I am not sure how much super slayer weights, if it is 1.5 or higher, the bovine slayer from Butcher's War Cleaver can good too. Meanwhile, leafblade uses only 12 ingots comparing to 18 used by Butcher's. Depending on runic roll, I normally get close to average 1 relic and 1 essence from each leafblade. From what I read on a publish note from Dec., unraveling a bunch of crafted items in a bag may give some extra ingredients. So I normally unravel at least 20 leafblades at a time. Copper hammer can also give relics but at lower return. Since I worry more about the rare gems, I use bronze hammer.

    The horned runic kit may not work well since the barbed leather only gives 1.04 multiplier bonus for the material. The mid level runic saws and fletching kits don't 100% intensities and they are harder (or more boring) to get. Otherwise, crafting bloodwood ML items with rare gems may be feasible.

    I started imbuing only 1 month ago after my UO break so there could be things that I don't know or missed.
     
  5. Gelf

    Gelf Guest

    Use best weapon gives 100% intensity for unraveling purposes, its weighted intensity is 150% for imbuing purposes. the highest intensity item to make for unraveling would be the knights war cleaver(150%), i believe.
     
  6. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Question.

    Since I often read contradicting numbers, is there a table or something were the actual figures are listed ?

    I mean, where do these numbers come out from ? Players figuring them out on their own through trial and error ? Developers disclosing them in various posts ? Tables posted on the official UO PlayGuide ?

    The thing is, that one day i read some numbers and another day I read other numbers.

    It gets confusing a lot.

    Is there a good guide that walks players through all of these imbuing and unravelling numbers ?

    Thanks.
     
  7. aoLOLita

    aoLOLita Sage
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    I used a Bronze runic and Val ingots and made 7 Leafblades of Ease and 7 Knights War Cleaver (my oled standby relic producer) then unraveled at Queen's Forge and got he following results:

    Leafblade - 4 Relic // 8-9 EE

    Cleaver - 9 Relic // no EE

    Since I am using a Bronze runic charge & magic gem each time, I will stay with KWC even thought it uses 6 mor Val ingots ...

    ::: kicks myself for not making more valorite smith hammers back in the not-too-long-ago day :( It was so damned boring and time consuming, but the only resource it used up was a magic gem :::
     
  8. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    You guys are using expensive hammers/runics - there are cheaper methods than valorite ingots and bronze hammers.

    I made 10 gold knights war cleavers with copper runics and got 12 frags and 4 EE.
     
  9. Barry Gibb

    Barry Gibb Of Saintly Patience
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    The Magic Effects Table is what you are looking for. It gives the magical property by name, its intensity range, and its imbuing weight.

    To determine the intensity of a property for unravelling, look at its current value, divide that by the property's maximum intensity and multiply by 100 (for the percentage):
    ((magical property)/(maximum intensity))*100
    Example: 15%LRC = ((15)/(20))*100 = 75%

    Any property that has a single value (FC, slayer, UBWS, etc...) is considered an intensity of 100%. The imbuing weights are not used for unravelling, only imbuing.

    To determine the total intensity of an item (for unravelling) add up all of the individual intensities of the magic properties.

    Stayin Alive,

    BG
     
  10. MYUO

    MYUO Guest

    I didn't know the imbuing property weights are not factored for unraveling - like I said I started my imbuer 1 month ago. If that is true, then any property generated by a runic are equal (100%) as far as they are at their max value? In that case, UBWS should be as same as any slayer, HP regen 3. fc1, night sight, or say 15 physical resist?

    When comparing copper hammer and bronze hammer, and which weapon to make, a decent sample size is necessary because the runic hammers roll on different numbers and types of properties. I will try bronze hammers on Knight's War Cleaver tonight and see what happens.
     
  11. Holy smokes Batman!!!! I think I am starting to understand this stuff!!! Thanks Barry Gibb for the simple explanation although I am sure others have said it as plainly just that I was too lost to really grasp the ideas, it's the repetition that is finally sinking in.
     
  12. Gelf

    Gelf Guest

    the 100% unraveling intensity= the max(nomal) intensity a item can have. for ex hit point regen is max 2, so the knights war cleaver give 3 HPR which equals 150% for unraveling purposes
     
  13. Gelf

    Gelf Guest

    Alot of the confusion comes from the devs frequently changing unraveling numbers, to prevent mass production of relic frags.Probally have to wait awhile for someone to correlate everthing into a single table. the table link posted by barry gibb is accurate, only need to factor in durability(if below 50) and special material(valorite,barbed,bloodwood,ect) bonus.

    Note: this,of course, assumes the dev's don't change anything
     
  14. MYUO

    MYUO Guest

    Gelf,
    Thank you for your explanation. Knight's War Cleaver is indeed better than leafblade of ease.
     
  15. eekamouse

    eekamouse Guest

    Good info. Thanks.
     
  16. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Would it have been possible, by looking at the unravelling formula and numbers to actually foresee and anticipate these results ?

    I mean, is there a way to anticipate what item will unravel into what resources or is it just a matter of luck and chances and one has to actually do a test like this to figure out what gives what ?
     
  17. Barry Gibb

    Barry Gibb Of Saintly Patience
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    If you were so inclined you could make some statistical predictions, given that you know the intensity ranges of the runic hammers, the set intensities of the type of weapon, and the material's contribution. Honestly this sounds like too much effort for a game though.

    Just by examination, the cleaver should produce more relics than the leafblade due to its higher base intensity. The same simple conclusion can be made if you are comparing runic hammers (the higher the better).

    Stayin Alive,

    BG
     
  18. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Hmmm..... but if it is too complicated to calculate which ML craftable might give what resource, then how do we know that the cleaver is the best bang for the buck among all of the possible craftables ?

    It might be possible that there is a better option but, without a formula to work with and numbers to compute the only other option left is just make them all, see what comes out and determine whether or not there could be anything more efficient than the cleaver.

    I was merely trying to see if this could be spotted in theory, without actually having to make stuff and then unravel it....
     
  19. Barry Gibb

    Barry Gibb Of Saintly Patience
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    It is not complicated AT ALL. Go look at at the base properties for the ML weapons and do the simple math. Which ever item has higher base properties will yield better unravelling ingredients. It is that simple. If you want to see if there is a better item, just look the items up and compare. The Blacksmithing page has the information you seek on the ML weapon types.

    If you were only looking for "theory", then I will answer plainly: "Yes you can use math to figure this out, since you know the base properties for the items, the runic bonuses, and the material benefits".

    Stayin Alive,

    BG
     
  20. eekamouse

    eekamouse Guest

    Is there another weapon that makes as high intensity as Knight's War Cleaver.. that uses a different gem in the recipe?
     
  21. Gelf

    Gelf Guest

    no at 150% intensity knights war cleaver is highest. the next best is the guardian axe at 130% intensity(uses blue diamond)
     
  22. Inwe

    Inwe Visitor
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    I've tried searching for the base properties to do the "simple math." Maybe I'm just not understanding this whole process. While I AM looking for the best possible (most economical) combination of runic to use on a specific item with the correct material, I'm not expecting there to be ONE best one. I have read many people mentioning several different combinations but I still don't understand why.

    For example, why not a war cleaver instead of a true war cleaver?
    If it must be a true war cleaver (in that example), why a copper runic and not a DC, shadow, or bronze?
    Why does the ingot type matter based on which runic was used?

    I recently made 80 true war cleavers using a copper runic as a 120 smithy with a +19% exc talisman bonus and no ASH. While I didn't inspect the bag for the number of exceptional quality items, I assumed (silly me) they would hit the average. Here were the following results unraveling as a garg at the queen's forge with 120 imbuing:
    Bag 1: 20 DC = 13 RF, 25 EE
    Bag 2: 20 DC = 11 RF, 31 EE
    Bag 3: 20 Gold = 6 RF, 45 EE
    Bag 4: 20 Gold = 16 RF, 24 EE (actually noticed there were only 11 exc items in that last bag before unraveling)

    There just seem to be too many factors for me to understand.

    Is there a easily understandable reason to craft some of those items that require a "special" gem as opposed to those that do not (ie war cleaver vs true war cleaver)?

    How do you know which type of ingot to use with each specific runic?

    I'd hate to blow through my small stash of special gems from mining and LJ'ing testing all this out. I used to be an avid miner and LJer only to realize I had less than 100 of each of those gems I never thought I would use.

    Thanks for putting up with my ignorance and lack of know how!
     
  23. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    (Jaw hits floor)

    The whole point of crafting with the recipe ones requiring the special gems is to get the additional property that comes from the recipe. Otherwise, you'd have to use Gold or Agapite runics, or higher to even have a minimal chance of a relic fragment - and those aren't cheap.

    The other questions have answers that are less obvious to the neophyte.

    The ingots matter because the ingots higher than iron add an additional multiplier to the total value (something like about 2-10% times the total value of the properties). One also has to be careful with which materials to use, as if a material adds an actual property to the item (elemental damage doesn't count), thre is a negative multiplier for items with 6 or more properties.

    Copper & Bronze runics are best because they, when combined with the Exceptional DI and the property added from the recipe, give 5 properties. Bronze is best, since it always gives 3 properties, but Copper is cheaper and has 5 more uses at the cost of half the items not having enough properties. It ALMOST balances out, but not quite.

    You also don't want to do this unless you are 100% chance to make the items exceptional - so get an ASH and equip it after opening up the runic's crafting gump. The 35-40% DI for exceptional is the difference between getting EE & RF, because it is 70-80% intensity by itself.
     
  24. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Why equip the ASH after opening up the runic's crafting gump ? What for ?

    I mean, if one was already holding the ASH in hand before opening up the bronze runic's crafting gump why would this be bad ?

    Also, does one need a 60% ASH which comes expensive, or lower ASH hammers would do it just fine ?

    Bottom line is, what is the least ASH that one could use to still get the job done ?

    This is to craft the Knights War Cleaver using valorite ingots.....

    Thanks a lot.
     
  25. Thom

    Thom Lore Keeper
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    I've never owned much less used a 60 ash and I get a fairly good return on crafting my relics. I have an exceptional 20 talisman and a 10 ash that I use most of the time, it doesn't give 100% exceptional chance, but I beleive it's around 94%, so close enough for me considering how easy it is to get the copper and bronze hammers. I get somewhere around 25 to 30 relics per set of bronze hammer crafted gold silver etched maces. I'm still waiting on my treasure hunter to get the right crafting recipes since I can't stand heartwood quests.
     
  26. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    For most of the history of runics, if you had the ASH already in hand, you could NOT use the runic to craft. What would happen is that you would get a message that you had to use the already-equipped tool to craft.
    You had to equip the ASH after you had the runic tool's crafting gump open in order to get the skill bump to crafting with the runic.
    This "you must use the equipped tool" issue still applies to most tools (for example, you can't use a gargoyle pickaxe or a normal shovel to dig, if you have a Jacob's pickaxe equipped, or have a pickaxe equipped to use as a weapon). There was talk of making an exception for smith tools, but I'm not sure it was done.

    Nearly every smith item can be made 100% exceptional using a talisman that is over 20% Exceptional Blacksmithing bonus, in conjunction with an ASH +15 (or +10, for most things). +30 ASH & +60 ASH should ONLY be used for enhancing.
     
  27. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Thank you very much for the clarifications.

    It is good to know that a +15 ASH in combination with a decent talisman will still get the job done since the higher Ancient Smith Hammers are a bit too much expensive to use for the purpose.