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This should be interesting...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Dermott of LS, Jul 19, 2010.

  1. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Just want to get an idea of where people draw the (rather arbitrary) line between legitimate and "scriptor". Not that I am by ANY stretch going to attempt. First I want to throw a screenshot of a container in my main cabin with the simple question...

    Does the following picture = scripting or not:

    [​IMG]

    Once I get a few replies, I'll give the actual answer and a bit more detail... for now, I just want to see and have a discussion on where people draw that line based on an image and/or tooltip. For the sake of discussion, disregard any further evidence (such as actually seeing the script in action).

    No, I'm not going to take offense at any accusations, but at the same time, let's not turn this into a flame war.
     
  2. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    No. A simple container with a lot of ore doesn't mean anything except for the fact that there is a lot of ore there.
     
  3. Beastmaster

    Beastmaster Guest

    I'll just say this. You sure waste a lot of time lugging that ore when you have a forge right under your arse!
     
  4. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    I'll second that, but no, a lot of ore doesn't automatically mean scripting, but it does make me jealous...
     
  5. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    Heheh, actually I'll adress that one first. This isn't the ONLY container I have that has mining (or mined) resources, it's simply the only one that I'm not smelting (yet). That container is a repository for the 18 (yes 18) ore carts I have throughout the cabin. I haven't smelted these because I have nearly half a million ingots that I have mined up myself besides that. None of it is scripted, just quite a few hours of mining in Fel Cove.

    I'm just interested in seeing at what point does suspicion arise... 500k stones? 1m stones? 1.5m stones? 2m? 3m? Does the container HAVE to be on the front porch?

    I've seen such accuations based on a screenshot occasionally here and was really wondering what that arbitary level was before the bells go off in your head.

    Again, I'm in no way defending scripting because if not for scriptors, I'd be looking into how to turn these efforts into a profitable venture on several different levels... unfortunately, actually having such in idea work out falls a bit short when you realize just how low the profit levels are when people have scripted the game to the level it currently resides.

    I find myself at an interesting middle ground where I despise scriptors as much as (or more) than everyone else here, but at the same time, I also want to speak out against a lot of the accusations of scripting, so it's interesting for me to see where that line is.

    At what (minimal) level of proof do the accusations start?
     
  6. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    You can't tell scripting from a picture. Well, unless it's some kind of log that shows the character being caught in a cycle such as trying to recall over and over despite the rune being blocked or dead, lol.

    Those who pose accusations on simple pictures like the one above are just wrong and want to fling out accusations.

    The minimal level proof for me is actually catching the scripter in the act and through some course of action am able to determine that they are actually not there. Such as seeing them continuously try to perform an action that wont work. Not that I care to waste my time determining if it's a scripter anymore.
     
  7. Arcus

    Arcus Grand Poobah
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    No. Weight alone does not imply scripting. Its not on your front step either as is most chests that are set up for the drop box.
     
  8. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    -I agree with this:
    - There are signs.. and a heavy chest, even on the front step, is only a sign that someone living there has something in it that weighs a lot.
     
  9. Kojak

    Kojak Lore Master
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    Dermott's a scriptor - there's the proof - hehe
     
  10. Black Sun

    Black Sun Grand Poobah
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    While I understand where you're coming from with that logic, I have to disagree. A heavy box on someone's steps does not necessarily mean scripter. In the case of the heavy box on my steps it means I'm too lazy to go inside to drop off wood when lumber jacking.
     
  11. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    That's really interesting because I find myself in a similar position. I don't speed hack, but I am accused of it all the time. I hate cheating in all it's forms and that has been one of my crusades for many years now, you can look at my posting history if you don't believe me.

    But the simple truth is, I haven't found anyone on my shard that I can't outrun. In a straight line I don't actually run any faster than anyone else, but it seems I never lag, and because I use the EC, I rarely get caught on objects.

    Now I'll read accusations of speed hacking in general chat, and I find myself defending even my enemies against those accusations, and royally p***ing off many of my allies in the process. But I know these people don't speed hack, no matter how fast they appear to be moving, because I don't speed hack, and in a straight line we run at the same speed, and if we are in a running fight, I can lose them.

    So unless these people are evil geniuses that only use their speed hacks when they are in a close in fight, and their speed doesn't help them all that much, and never use them when they chase someone, which seems highly unlikely to me because you would think that would be when they would want to use them, they don't speed hack...
     
  12. Beastmaster

    Beastmaster Guest

    The typical screenshots depicting purported scripters are usually more along these lines:

    1.Container on or next to the steps with hundreds of thousands of stone weight.
    2.House is either a classic small or 7x7 custom plot (no improvements).
    3.House is located in some remote area like swamps or jungles.
    4.A character has been noticed recalling to and from the house almost like clockwork no matter what time of day it is checked.

    Is that definitive proof? No. But I'd say its darn good justification for an investigation.
     
  13. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    I've mainly played my characters as Crafters & Foragers. I have piled up some helacious collections of the various resources before managing to sell them off.

    I'm currently training up characters I've recently powerscrolled and am piling up hides and other things again. I put what I gather inside the house & bankboxes and am going to let it pile up to six figure bankbox weights again before I commodity deed it all. :)

    A lot of a resource piled up may just mean thats what a main character does. A Scriptor would be a character who recalls from ore spot to ore spot in a cave never taking a step, lands beside you and mines the spot your working, or whats even more fun does this while your hunting ore eles and gets locked onto by an ele by popping in beside you and just merrily digs away while the eles whomping on it. Tell me there was a player actually playing that miner and just kept digging while it was killed. rolleyes:

    I've got a pile of gargoyle picks again. I can only hope to get a chuckle a second time. :popcorn:
     
  14. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    5. You stand on his recall spot for a half hour and he pops in immediately after you step off.

    Meet these 5 criteria continuously at different times on different days and I'd say you have a winner.

    If I were able to look inside a suspect chest.... 5k piles of ore is not that much.... and not multiple ore types. Typically shadow is the prime target... at least it was before ML. Fel mined shadow ore = 140 gp (NPC'd) per swing of the shovel. And it is very easy to find shadow ore anywhere.

    Spread that across multiple shards/accounts and it easy to make millions/day undetectable.

    A drop off secure on the steps is amateur scripting. Easy to recall to multiple bank drop offs or simple take that extra step... onto the steps and drop off in a secure no one can see.

    Before the ophid war, I noticed tons of crystalline blackrock popping up in great bulk (several 100 pile lots) on many vendors. I was suspicious about that. Now that it is so easy to get I have stopped snooping around.
     
  15. RawHeadRex

    RawHeadRex Slightly Crazed
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    a few hours in fel cove ? nice few hours... :popcorn:

    only thing that stuck out to me was the amount of each ore was somewhat even. prospector tool works i guess.
     
  16. Rakoth

    Rakoth Guest

    I stared at that screen shot for a moment, thought how ugly and boxy the container's window was, then moved on to musing how much gold even a fraction of that would have been worth ten years ago.

    Entirely irrelevant, I know, but I thought I'd share anyway. :heart:
     
  17. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    Nah that's not the stuff mined in Cove... it's pretty even numberswise because that's all out of ore carts. The Cove mining is already smelted and in one of three places:

    Stuff Mined in Cove in 2010 is currently in my miner's bankbox
    Stuff mined Pre-2010, NOT equalling 60k is in a designated "resource secure"
    Stuff equalling 60k stacks are in commodity deeds in the Commodity deed box at the cabin.

    But, yes, the Prospector's Tool works wonders (especially combined with the Garg Pick (which I use in West Brit Fel)).

    Rakoth, I REALLY miss KR in that regard, because we had brand new artwork for "Legacy Container" view which also allowed all three view styles (Grid, List, and Freeform) instead of the generic UI call it uses now then shunts you into the postage stamp sized "legacy containers" when you use them (which of course makes the numbers in each stack not visible).

    I'm not about to give up my list view, but I wish we had the updated Legacy Container artwork back.
     
  18. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    I don't think your a scripter, My commodity box weighs quite alot and it's almost all bought resources.

    I almost hate scripters as much as the people who go about accusing people with no solid proof, Okay a lot of the time they are right, but there's a right and a wrong way to go about it. You page the GM and walk away, Don't go blabbing about it on the forum or in the chat 'Cought another one' it just makes you look like some sort of game police.
     
  19. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    I don't mind some of the stories of stuff done to scriptors (the more original and entertaining, the better) as I've always had the firm belief of you abandon your character online at your own risk... anything that happens when you're away is YOUR fault.

    By the same token, I also enjoy the stories of people NOT scripting that turn the tables on the "scriptor police" as well.
     
  20. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Replying before reading whole thread:

    Based on my professional opinion as one of the craziest never-scripted miners in the game....

    That looks to be about the equivalent of 20-30 hours work for a Trammel miner using garg picks, or about 10-15 hours in Felucca, though why the person wouldn't use a Fire Beetle is beyond me. The ore spread is kinda odd, so is more likely (combined with it all being unsmelted ore) from someone with a bunch of vet reward ore carts than an actual miner, or someone who mined their ore (or recovered ore mined in that time period from an IDOC) back during the the pre-random period using mining rune books.

    Quite a normal, logical, amount - especially if the mining is done by one person for another person to use.

    Edit: Nice to see I hit it on the head about ore carts and and garg picks.
     
  21. Scripting? No....but how the hell are you finding so much of the higher end ore?? I can mine all day and not find ANY ore thats higher than golden(when using a prospecters tool). :cursing:

    ....*grrrrr!!* wait a minute! An ore cart gave you that as drops over time? Damn then whats the point of going out and mining at all?
    Ore Cart > Actual non-script mining?
     
  22. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    The ore carts have a 1 in 9 chance of each ore, just like the stumps have a 1 in 7 chance of each wood type. Dermott has EIGHTEEN of the carts.

    What makes most people still harvest stuff the hard way are the age requirements for the rewards, and the difficulty of getting additional rewards of that level to begin with. 18 ore carts? That's about all of a 10-year account's rewards, without choosing any others (and IIRC, isn't that the reward level of the cart, 10 years?).
     
  23. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Dermott sugar thats piddly amount of ore you got there.... tisk. (you do well my friend)
    You would gasp at the box of resources I have on one shard. But that is over 12 years of collecting it!!
    I have seen a few scripters and seen the gms poof their crates over the years.

    Scripting is the issue your asking so of course, what you have is not the issue with that but I do see your point.

    NO your not a scripter for having vast amounts of resources.

    A real Scripter is the bot like actions of a program running that recalls in mines for a few sceonds and repeats this action no matter if a dragon is there to eat them or not.This is done without being watched most times.
    This is a scripter ... of resources, now the scripter who runs mega programs for everything in pvp is another(speedhacking is in there too).
     
  24. XLaCeDX

    XLaCeDX Guest




    When I am actually playing UO and idocing and I see a container like that, parked on someone's steps, with either the steps cut out on both sides of the container or the container is a backpack or a pouch hidden under a plant, I will linger, sometimes hidden, sometimes not, to see what kind of activity is going on there.

    The last two cases I encountered like this I paged on the chest with the cut-outs and the three, yes count them, three, characters who were recalling in and out to unload the resources they gathered into the chest that weighed 1.2 million stones I believe it was (maybe I will load the screenies I took), and the backpack hidden under some plants I took a friend to watch the char unloading into the backpack and I had a nice little chat with that char.

    Both operations ceased. (ok most likely set up operations elsewhere)

    1.2 million stone chest dude was really funny. I was at Luna bank a few minutes after he closed down shop and one of his three chars appeared in Luna, apparently my two chars back at his script house blocked his only recall runes...

    So I was very nice and offered to gate him home, but I invited the rest of Luna to come see the chest with 1.2 million stones, so most of Luna came along to.

    Now this scriptor turned out to own a Luna vendor house (surprise!), and his stepson in real life plays UO also and is supposedly a good spell cycler in pvp and was dating ingame a tailor bod scriptor 'female' who I had previously caught running three accounts to gather and fill bods using scripts. That these people related ingame via pretend dating and via the same guild were both running not one but three accounts at the same time to script disturbs me.

    One of the other members of this same guild and maybe even another stepson irl of scriptor dude came through the gate and told me it wasn't illegal to macro in UO. Funny because the scriptor closed up shop that day for some reason.

    Now the other scriptor I found on Pac Tram Marble Island, where I had recently snagged two house spots. Awesome place to own houses no spawn! (except when I got the first plot I had a neighbor who was the spawn of Satan, but she moved to uglyland by the gargoyle city, so I got her house spot also).

    Marble isle scriptor had cleverly hidden a backpack or pouch under some plants on his/her steps. 400k stones I think were in there when he/she recalled in and saw me and my friend watching them.

    When he/she unloaded their resources into the pack on their steps the pack appeared above the plants and stayed there.

    My friend isn't confrontational so I believe he recalled away but I stayed and had a nice chat with the scriptor.

    I mentioned how much I loved living on Marble Island and would love to own the WHOLE island.

    A day or two later their hidden on the steps backpack was emptied down to 6k stones or so and to this day that weight has never changed.

    Actions are telling.

    My basic procedure these days would be to page and let the GMs sort it out.

    It's really the best way.

    I happened to see this guy on a hiryu taming chickens at Jhelom farms once.

    I arranged bagballs into a path way that he got hung up on while straining to get to a chicken.

    Once I was convinced he was afk I paged on him. I waited and lo and behold a GM appeared in front of me and asked me what I was doing.

    Kinda scary!

    So I said he seems to be afk while taming but I wanted to be sure before I paged so I tested with bagballs and I left him a path! See? That's legal!

    So he says Ok and I pick up the bagballs and leave.

    Now I go back to check later and HIRYU DUDE IS STILL THERE TAMING CHICKENS.

    No GM in sight.

    I was ticked.

    So ticked that I ran around in the nearby jungle and a mean giant serpent targeted me so I ran to the hiryu riding chicken tamer to ask for HELP!

    Then I remembered I could invis myself and so, unfortunately the giant serpent, not being able to see me, decided to eat the scriptor.

    Sad day, that.

    Well next day or so I find out here on Stratics that there was some taming exploit which made your taming go into the negatives and you could tame low level animals get huge gains and keep them.

    I never really questioned why anyone in UO would be taming chickens.

    So now I know even if it seems the GMs aren't taking action, they probably are watching and trying to find out what the heck is going on.

    That's why I know it's best to just page and let them sort out any questionable activities.
     
  25. I would hope weight does not mean scripting, otherwise my 500k stone box of potions, apples, recall scrolls and other supplies would mean i script out my teeth :confused:
     
  26. I was wondering this myself.
    I asked when this Event War started about the flood of Crystallized Blackrock and the effect on the market. I now have over 1000 saved on top of the 35 stew i have turned in, most of which I sold. I was thinking of selling the bulk in a large sum and was wondering how ppl would act to the amount.
    I also do IDOC and have a container on my steps that I have all the common resources in. This allows me to make super fast drops if I have to unload and recall back.
     
  27. miss uo

    miss uo Guest

    Prospectors tool + gargoyle pickaxe = 2 bumbs.... dont mine without the 2.
     
  28. I agree with this response. You can't tell from the picture how long you took to accumulate this ore, nor can you tell how many people collected it.

    I know that people are out to get scripters and I don't think they're wrong. It just has to be done very carefully...server logs catching them in the act and methods to detect patterns in these actions.
     
  29. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    If all you are after is ingots, the metal conversion quests in Ter Mur are also superior right now for obtaining gold and agapite ingots. If you are really good you may be able to mine gold faster than you can obtain it in the quest, but the agapite elixer is extremely easy to get if you are good at killing ants. I hate to lend credit to the concept of critter farming for ingots, but it is just the easiest way for those two atm. The other conversion quests aren't worth it to me.
     
  30. Boogy

    Boogy Visitor

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    No, this isnt 8 hours of script mining
     

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  31. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    46 ore/min is pretty pathetic. Was this not mined in tram or not mined in fel? I'd gues for the haul in ML gems, which is more valueable than the ore itsself, it was not mined in tram.
     
  32. Boogy

    Boogy Visitor

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    Not mined in both... The ingots alone would have been sold for about 800k
    ( Market value over 1mil).Not bad considering I could be at work, hunt in the Abyss, anything but mining. I stayed undetected for a very long time.
     
  33. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    My boards secure alone has 1.4 million stone in it and its on the roof of my house. I just don't understand the point of your post. If you want to be "friend to the scripting accused", then charge a fee and offer your services to those that have been wrongly accused. But why make a thread simply to cast reasonable doubt? Why?
     
  34. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Because I thought it would be an interesting exercise in finding out if there's a spot that triggers people's mindset to think "This container has X weight in it... must be a scriptor", and also to see other criteria people put forward (which I will state I agree with some of them... especially those who actually demand proof of the deed).

    The point I want to make beyond that exercise is to not simply assume a heavy secure automatically equals scripting, that proof of deed is a much better measure.

    Also I was just wondering for my own benefit as well... i.e. at what point does it become more and more likely that someone pages (falsely in my case) based on that evidence.

    Finally, the secondary conversation about the ore itself, the methods of acquiring, and the distribution have been fun as well :)
     
  35. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    You're also assuming then that everyone who reports a scripter, simply saw a heavy chest, and that's not the case. I've page on no less than 100 scripters. I knew they were scripters because I stood there for a long time, bagballing their recall spots and watching how quickly they return once I picked the bag up. THEN i paged on them, for it to only be a waste of time. The fool that pages a Gm simply because they saw a heavy container, is just that, a Fool..
     
  36. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    :lol:
     
  37. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    I dont think it was to cast doubt but to have ppl understand a bag on someone's porch or roof top dont mean "scripting done here" if it weighs tons. I'd hate to see if I took the boards and ingots out of the c deeds in my box what the weight would be!

    Lets get real here: Scripters are players who sit watching tv letting a BOT run a set programs and no watching what the hadies they are doing. Mining is a major one for the resource scripter. This one makes $$ for farmer co's And you can tell one a mile off. Lumberjacking is the second but far less $$ making as the trees now change so fast you cant get more then a small handfull before it changes to another kind. (this one is sheer luck)
    Scripting is bad this we all agree but basing it on resources/items is nto the way to do it.

    Idoc's have made many a front porch bag/ box super heavy, not to mention many players do mine/chop and drop off home.(those who dont have a fire bug in tow)

    Odd thing is, today I saw a scripter mining in TerMur. No i didnt see a great big bag on a house stoop. The miner kept recalling to a set grid of spots many times right on top of me. mined ore I was digging and recalled to the next spot 3 steps over. Tried to talk to them but they were silent. Tried to see what would happen after I watched him recall around. I dug up the ore in those places to see reaction. NONE, just recalling the pattern non stop. That my friends is a BOT Scripter.
     
  38. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    And see I've NEVER understood the whole "recall 3 or 4 tiles away" schtick... ESPECIALLY in the current system that randomizes the ore veins occasionally. Seems more efficient to have a bug in tow and just find a decent area to strip mine. Back before resource randomization, to target specific colors, sure, but now... again, nonsensical to me (outside of a bot-script).
     
  39. Pawain

    Pawain Crazed Zealot
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    The picture tells me that the next time you see me I need to ask you for some Dragon Barding! The stuff breaks too fast.
     
  40. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    No it´s not.

    It´s just a legit player who don´t feel he have to answer someone cuz that might take a few seconds of his time and he just don´t have that time to spare. Also, the reason he kept mining where you just mined is cuz he was hoping to get lucky if the spot had re-spawned.

    So, it was a legit attended player. Or at least according to some of the boardies here... rolleyes:
     
  41. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    perhaps you're too legit to quit?
     
  42. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Or addicted :p
     
  43. GarthGrey

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    I think you typo'd, wasn't that supposed to say "No, THIS is 8 hrs of script mining? I can't believe this has gotten almost 0 comments.
     
  44. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    It is interesting to see the point of view from an actual user. That is sort of rare. Personally I think it really doesn't matter so much anymore.
     
  45. red sky

    red sky Sage
    Stratics Veteran

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    Most logical persons would assume it begins when a person is non-responsive and is committing the same action repeatedly. :gee:
     
  46. Forget all that! I am soul-stoning mining and lumberjacking and buying 10+ each of the carts! Why should I spend hours getting the lesser ores (even with the prospectors tool/garg ax) when I can just use lockdowns in my keep to do my "mining" for me.
     
  47. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

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    Hilarious. I get it, he was just running a really complicated macro, while he sat in front of his computer reading Nietzsche...
     
  48. I caught you duping a screenshot. Banned! :pint: