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Thought this could not be done anymore

Discussion in 'UO Great Lakes' started by Lady Michelle, Aug 31, 2009.

  1. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
    Stratics Veteran The DarkOutlaws, TDO

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  2. Xukluk

    Xukluk Guest

    Unless something changed in the last few years.. Does it really matter? Non faction guilds couldn't xheal/heal their allied counter parts it was always just for show or for the knowledge of who not to attack outside of looking at their guildtags.
     
  3. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    They don't hit each others fields was the biggest concern at one point. So you have a few faction people mixed in with a buncha non faction, where the faction guys stat people but use the non faction as meatshields. What a few other concerns but i can't recall them right now.
     
  4. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    It's really funny because BC used to whine and cry about TDR doing this, and now they are doing it too.
     
  5. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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  6. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Does it really matter??

    I mean, Mythic announced about 3months ago that they would be dropping them anyway so let us have our alliance while we can.

    If it goes the way they said then the alliance will drop so in the grand scheme of things doesnt really matter.
     
  7. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    In the last 3 months it was suppose to be fixed where you couldn't do this anymore, and any guilds that were allied like this before the fix went in are suppose to drop the alliance or Mythic will.
    I tried guilding my nonfaction guild to a faction guild to see what would happen can't do it.
    Someone I know had to drop their alliances before they could join factions.
    I see some your guild mates around fel, because some live near my place in fel and in the last 2 weeks not one of them were ever orange.
    So since you cant do it the 2 ways I posted and your guild was not in factions well I think you can put it together yourself.
     
  8. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    They haven't fixed it yet, but they say they will.

    You can't make new Faction/non-Faction alliances without going through some complicated procedure that I don't know and that is definitely an exploit.

    Such alliances, though unintended, were explicitly legal for awhile. Then the ability to make such alliances was broken, they said unintentionally, and they said they'd "fix" it. But they never did.

    In the meanwhile, they rethought the whole thing, and decided to make such alliances illegal. So now they are illegal, but unaddressed.

    This is one issue wherein the team has totally failed by just about every measure. Firstly by not making up their minds, then by not fixing it, either way. If such alliances are going to be legal, they need to allow the alliances to be made. If such alliances are going to be illegal, they need to break the existing ones and fix the hole that allows them to be made.

    Either way, it's a big FAIL, by definition.

    Such alliances have the advantage of allowing Faction guilds to be part of non-Faction life on the shard to a greater degree. (On LS I was in a TB guild that was in an RP Alliance.) However, they grant so many advantages on the field that they just become more trouble than they are worth.

    -Galen's player
     
  9. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    Ty Galen.
    To the ones who said does this matter. Yes it does matter when legit players like me play by the rules. Non factions guilds have no place in being involved in the factions at all. Non factions guilds that want to be allied to factions guilds need to join factions. One of these guilds kicked a member out of their guild because he posted a picture using a 3rd party program that was illegal. but this is worse knowing this was not intended, and illegal. tsk tsk
     
  10. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    XD, *DC and BC allied? Oh my how Great Lakes has gone to **** since I stopped playing actively.
     
  11. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Weve been allied for ages now.

    XV has a few active members, BC probably less. We all enjoyed playing alongside each other so the remaining members decided to ally.

    Its old news for most.
     
  12. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    This isnt worse at all!!

    This is using mechanics of the game. Its not even an abuse of mechanics, all it would take anyone is a little bit of that grey matter to work out how its done!

    If it wasnt intended how come they broke it by stopping it happening?? Sounds to me like it was an intended system that got broke with the tweeking they do, now people want it changed.

    I couldnt care less if the alliance gets dropped, its just a nice communication tool when on a faction char to know what the rest of the guild is up to. Most of the fights ive been involved with SA with have all been in Brit/Yew so the friendly fire rules dont even come into play (no fields and very few area spells)
     
  13. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Really Rich? By your definition duping isn't an exploit, since you can do it within the game mechanics with some 'grey matter'.

    Draconi came out and said it was not intended.. pretty clear.
     
  14. They Call Me Al

    They Call Me Al Seasoned Veteran
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    I don't see any valid complaint here. Throughout history there have been many factions or sects that have aligned or "allied" with friendlys not of their group. As a result, many societies have been founded on a principal of group interaction.

    The last I checked, ultima is considered an RPG, thus alliances of faction and non faction "guilds" should not be an issue.

    And speaking from a pvp standpoint, I like it when I fight against a faction/non faction alliance. It makes it a helluva lot easier to call main targets.
     
  15. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    When Im bored watching sigs or cleaning my house some player runs by I always have to check and see what guild their in if they have no tag on.( yes I need a life) well to make this short I know you are allied for awhile, but I also know that this allied faction non-faction was just done recently.
    Here is something to think about.
    Draconi said this is not intended, and has given any alliances a chance to drop the alliances before they drop them.
    I see this as a warning from Draconi that if he or anyone else has to do it. There is going to be some banning or marks added since this is not intended and this is an exploit.
    If you or anyone thinks because they werent the ones who did the exploit and their save think again. They have the right to stop your accounts for no reason Its in the TOS. Just hope this is worth it to you and others to break the rules, because of some exploit due to game mechanics. To me it will be worth it when your houses fall, and I get all that nice loot that you all worked so long and hard to get.
     
  16. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Fields, area effects, and EVs.

    I don't play Factions anymore, and my forays into PvP are intentionally short. I've been in such an alliance on LS, done for RP purposes, and simply had never thought about the field advantages it could provide.

    I have little personal stake in this. But, at the end of the day, we're playing a game and it has rules. Though these alliances used to be within the rules, they now are not.

    And, even aside from that? I'd argue that the complaint is valid. Why? Fields, area effects, and EVs.

    Without such alliances, sure I could come try and help out the TB Faction by sniping the reds of other Factions, but any red TB casting a field, an area effect, or an EV, could hit me, and thus I'm running substantial risks if I interfere in a Faction fight. And that's how it should be.

    I actually used to argue the opposite, I used to support such alliances because I liked the idea of Factions being more embedded into life on the shard. But I stupidly didn't realize how many players would enter into these alliances primarily for the advantages they granted during fights.

    -Galen's player
     
  17. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Ok, so you could put duping into the same category as this but lets be honest. They arent even in the same ball park!

    This doesnt really negatively affect anyone...DC* have had factioners for a long time and we mainly do the factions for the in town fighting and sigs. Its nice to hear some our non vent players say they need help or generaly ask a question that we can offer help.

    Everynow and then, especially if the fighting in towns has dired up we will go help DC* at the spawns. In those situations yea, i know full well how nice it is to have red non faction allied fields to fall back into!

    Apart from this though...not really sure what the gripe is?

    I understand its not intentional and yes they will be dropped. Until such time, im sure we will continue to be allied.
     
  18. They Call Me Al

    They Call Me Al Seasoned Veteran
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    So Galen, you are basically stating that because someone chooses not to partake in the benefits/drawbacks of factions, that they should not be able to fight alongside their friends without having to worry about being harmed by them?

    Well sir I see a main flaw in your logic. If this was to be seen that way by all whom have participated in any fight or war, then right now the world as we know it would be a bit worse for wear. Take the actions of one infamous "Hitler". If people who are not of the same group and "faction" would not have risen to collectively put him down, there would be quite a problem with society today.

    In effect, because such alliances and friendships have been "allowed" in the past and present, Ultima should not change their system to make some people happy.

    If they were to continue down this road of doing what ever the complaintants see fit, we would end up with a game where players could only log in and stare at a blank screen, as everyone has their complaints about some aspect of the game or another.
     
  19. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Yes.

    ...

    First of all, you are using the name of a real life genocidal madman who killed millions of people, in an argument about PvP systems in an online game.

    Secondly, in the midst of World War Two, if someone threw a grenade into a trench, and it blew up, it would kill people regardless of which side the thrower or the people in the trenches were on. So your analogy is flawed even on its own terms.

    But that's ok because I suspect the reference was thrown in for shock value more than anything.

    Thirdly...Non-faction guilds can, and I suspect will, still jump into Faction fights to help out friends, settle grudges....All the reasons people normally engage in PvP. They'll just have to be careful.

    You mean, for example, they shouldn't change the way item properties work on bows in order to satisfy concerns among PvPers that bows were over-powered?

    Oh wait, they did.

    Or add a timer to enchanted apples to satisfy complaints from PvPers that apples were replacing the resist spells skill entirely?

    Oh wait, they did.

    In this particular case, I personally see more Faction players complaining about such alliances than lobbying to keep them. That's very telling. Though of course the deciding factor at least for me is that the detractors have better arguments. Starting with the fact that they've never had to use Hitler analogies.

    I used to support such alliances. I was wrong. It happens.

    -Galen's player
     
  20. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    A non faction guild being allied to a faction guild as the advantage of having characters of theirs in another faction. This means I can be in TB on few characters, and have a few of my characters in a non faction guild, allied to faction guild in COM. I get tired of helping TB I can jump on my non faction character to help COM. If my non faction guild goes into factions picks COM my character will be kicked out of the guild, because I am already in TB. This is one of the main reasons why faction and non faction guild should not be allied. besides fields area spells etc.
     
  21. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    When it comes down to the fighting, which is what it is all about, being allied or not does not make a difference. You can cause just as much damage without an alliance as you can with. The fact remains that even if you are allied you still can not enter a faction only zone or perform beneficial acts on your allied faction members.

    The biggest complaint is about the friendly fire bonus which takes place in non-faction areas. But that isn't faction fighting and any supposed bonus is canceled out by being unable to perform beneficial acts.
     
  22. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    You are incorrect, faction fighting is when two or more people are fighting each other and they are in a different faction. Location has no bearing on this.
     
  23. There are bigger concerns with factions than whats being chatted about. What about point farming, the use of death boxes to avoid stat lose, and trammies getting into factions for the arties and never setting foot in fel again
     
  24. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    That's being chatted about in a thread below this. I believe your guild is allied with the guild that is doing this. It's nice to know you are concerned.

    I don't think these are more serious issues than the issue of the particular alliance being discussed here.
     
  25. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    Don't think so this is just as important and needs to be fixed just as much as the other things you have stated. this is one of the major reasons why,and since this is public to everyone to see.
    BCF black company faction guild in minax
    http://my.uo.com/cgi-bin/guilds.pl?g=d6a7814a4e816596:3
    BC Black company (non faction guild) allied to a guild in COM
    http://my.uo.com/cgi-bin/guilds.pl?g=a959d8c08ec33805:3
    This should never be. No one should be able to have characters in factions on their accounts, and be able to be allied to a faction guild in another faction with a non faction guild.
     
  26. CatLord

    CatLord Guest

    Five on Friday
    March 27, 2009

    Why are faction guilds allowed to be allied with non faction guilds? This is a huge imbalance on the fighting field.


    They shouldn’t be able to, this is a bug and will be squashed appropriately. If your faction guild is allied with a non-faction guild, please drop the alliance before we do.
    -Draconi



    http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?p=1375928#post1375928
     
  27. Malador

    Malador Guest

    I am quite sick of this ludicriss and repetitive argument. Factioners are always whining about non-factioners getting involved in thier fights. Well you know what. There is a reason non-faction players cannot enter faction strongholds. Non-faction players cannot enter so you can have fights with no interferance. So STFU and go fight in your strong holds. Brit is huge. Anywhere else a faction player is just someone who joined factions to get better gear than you can get anywhere else. Anywhere else they are open to attack by reds and blues alike. If you find yourself in a fight and a blue is helping an orange look where you fighting and if your not in a strong hold man up and stop crying or move to a strong hold.
     
  28. Malador

    Malador Guest

    Oh please both of these issues are more important. The point farming especially.
     
  29. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Your opinion is noted and dismissed just as quickly. :sleep2:
     
  30. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    :sad3: Poor poor Mal I will not STFU don't like it to bad. Its a bug and needs to be squashed the sooner the better. :p
    BTW Im not the one who needs to man up Im not the one hiding behind any non faction fields when I play UO . Plus Im a lady so I cant man up
     
  31. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    I do have a question, did this become an issue because DC* made a different faction branch(rather than "fist full of fun" ex minax now com but dying) and allied with them?

    Or is this just an issue over all?? I only ask as i noticed that TDR/JW/RID hasnt been really discussed yet its the same thing.

    We wanted to join factions and still be able to communicate with our guild, especially as most of our guild isnt in vent. The friendly fire issue doesnt really affect us as we do most of our fighting in towns, at silver farming location or occasionaly at yew gate. Weve been doing very well too and we arent the ones bringing non faction dismounters to town fights.

    The majority of people who have complained about this wont even see DC* at a faction fight(in towns) because the DC* that want to get involved ARE involved on there faction chars. Hell even a few BC that wanted involved have on COM Faction chars.
     
  32. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    TDR and alliances have been like this for years. So I could not go with them with what I asked since the website seems to not work right when you drop a guild out of the alliance it still shows their still in the alliance for months til someone excepts an alliance with another guild it freshs.
    I GM track when Im at the base I tracked some players in COM I never seen around I used UO search saw they were in SA COM saw who they had an alliance with. When I checked to see how many points the alliance guilds had showed they weren't even in factions.Thinking this was suppose to be fixed lead me to ask my question here on the boards.
    since weeks ago I didnt see your guild allied to a faction guild which I explained in another post.
    This is a bug that needs to be fixed that makes it a issue over all.
     
  33. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I can't speak for GL, I only got here a couple of months ago.

    But on the message boards of general interest it's been an issue for awhile.

    So it probably has been one here too.

    -Galen's player
     
  34. Well it must be a cold day in hell, cause i am going to have to agree with Mal. This thread should have been named "cry me a river", or maybe carebare factions!!!
     
  35. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    Seriously get over yourself you know perfectly well this is a bug it isn't intended even Draconi stated it was a bug. Even gave everyone a chance to drop their faction non faction alliances. Not to drop the faction non faction alliances, and to wait for him or whoever to drop it is like a slap in the face, and proves who doesn't drop the faction non faction alliances when he gave them enough warning to doesn't give a rats tushi on what he says.
    So don't come here trying to make this about a trammy crying, because its not. Its about a bug that was not intended.You might think its ok to break the rules to fit how you want play, but I like to help fix the bugs, and play by the rules so everyone else is on the same playing field.
    So you should be the one who should stop crying boo hoo a trammy is going to ruin it for us to be allied.
     
  36. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Say what you want, this alliance has been around for a long time. You just havent seen many if any SA as no one in DC*/BC/XV gave a rats ass.

    Recently we have and joined the faction and have been stomping TB all over the place!

    If you want it gone so badly why not submit a bug report or a FOF question adressing the issue...apart from you no-one pvping on GL seems to care about the "illegal" alliances. The only time they got mentioned was when you cried and brought them up.
     
  37. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    OH !!!! goody say what I want ok I will say I'll let ya believe in your mind that your non faction guilds have been allied to your faction guild for a long time. if that makes you feel better, and gives you an excuse to break the rules.
    I haven't seen many if any SA (COM) ? but as you claim your faction guild is stomping TB all over the place. If I haven't seen many or any around how could that be.
    You think I care if you say Im crying or anyone else think again, and I don't care if I was the one who first brought it up on the GL boards. So this is what I have to say to you. BOO HOO the little trammy is picking on us make her stop she is going to ruin us being allied. * hands a tissue to rich* there you go dry your tears.
     
  38. Malador

    Malador Guest

    What ever else it might be about, it is about a trammy crying.

    As I stated previously this issue is miniscule compared to hundreds of other issues. Factions are dead. THe only purpose they currently serve, except for a very tiny part of the uo population that fights for town control, is to provide seriously over powered armor almost for free.
     
  39. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    oh because you say so got it Mal,:thumbsup: and because you say factions is dead gives you and others the right to use a illegal bug. OMG !!! What is wrong with me.OH !!!! wait nothing Im just a poor little carebear trammy that plays by the rules.
     
  40. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    You believe what you like. If you actually think that anyone will care if the alliances are dropped you are seriously mistaken! The only people who will be negatively affected are the newer members of our guild who ask us alot of questions, need alot of help.

    We wont care, we will continue to stomp TB all over brit and make lore denin sacred journey...over and over and over and over. Hiding on the wall and then on top of the inn, never stepping out to fight! While the rest of his faction "friends" litter the ground with corpses.

    I thought the commander was meant to go down with the ship??Not be the first to high-tail it out when **** hits the fan!
     
  41. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    And mal actually has a very good point!

    This is a miniscule drop in a massive ocean of problems that need to be fixed!

    Id be happy if they could get rid of all the problems in one swoop but as we know this will never happen i will settle for them dealing with the major issues first.

    Overpowered pets, client side hacks(no boxes/gravestones etc), speedhacking, duping before they look into these kind of miniscule problems which barely cause a ripple to many people other than yourself.
     
  42. Malador

    Malador Guest


    I didnt say that. What I said was your whining about something that does not impact faction pvp in any way shape or form. The only place it matters is in grinders and the only place faction grinders occur is in the bases and the non-faction blues and reds cannot get in. The only other place it has any effect is at spawns but then that is not a faction event is it.

    The issue with faction points will soon affect everyone. It will affect those trammys using faction armor to make cheap easy suits. it will affect the pvpers that did the same. it will affect the small group that actually fights over sigals. That is everyone and it will affect you no matter what you do unless you exploit the same game mechanic to do it too.
     
  43. watchertoo

    watchertoo Sage
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    ****WARNING****

    This is all my opinion!!! Yep, I saw somewhere we were entitled to have one....

    At the risk of joining the carebearcrybabytrammy designated group.... I disagree. The blues blocking, revealing, tracking, griefing reds at the front of the base... that has been and can be a factor in a battle.

    A bit of history: A few months or so back, we were running defenses in the hallway of the castle. Major fielding, etc. We received considerable "grief" from other factions that we wouldn't "bring a fight" to the front or even into the city. So we did. We started our defenses at the entrance and chased into the city. Blues MOST DEFINITELY cause us considerable "pain in the {insert body part here}" when we have red players, when they reveal the stealthers, when they track our thieves and everyone else at times since it is in no-guard zone. True we can retreat back into the base but it is kinda hard to "bring a fight" to the front (per complaints from other factions).

    And now again I feel I must point out... PVP isn't factions.... stealing sigs isn't factions .... the combination of those two is factions; all play styles to accomplish the control of the towns is factions.

    The points issue.... fixed it for me. No arties... no problem. I only have two chars that use arties that might drop and if they do I have back up regular items for that moment. See, points issue solved.... don't become dependent on the arties to play. But to the point farmers... keep it up!!! The longer you are out there farming points, the less people you field to try to break a defense or train chars for real faction play. Heaven forbid someone train a blasted thief and steal the sigils or actually attempt a defense.
     
  44. *shorty*

    *shorty* Guest

    Yes this needs to be fixed now. It really affects my gameplay; some people may want to pvp in factions but all the alliances are really affecting how I like to play. I prefer to stay hidden on my thief in TB base and stealth around looking for other thieves who will try to steal our sigils; and since I have no life, any person I see run by me I look up on uo.com and see what guild they are in. Since I have to be looking up all these blues who aren't really in factions it interupts me eating my cheetos and donuts and drinking my 2 liter of diet coke while I stare at my screen all day. I'm not trying to be a crybaby here but thats just how im feeling.
     
  45. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    Nothing anyone can say here that is going to justify using a bug especially when a DEV even came out and said it was a bug, and even gave players a chance to drop it before they do.
    There is no justified reason that the non faction guilds can't be in factions along with there allied faction guild. If they are going to be out there pvping, doing champs along with there allied faction guild. the only difference would be going into stat loss. They get killed so big deal walk it off for 20 minutes. :p. and the non pvp characters you have you dont take out to pvp so need to worry about them getting killed unless you plan on taking a mule out there.
     
  46. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    no Mal it wont affect me,and it never will I dont need the points or the items to have fun.
     
  47. Malador

    Malador Guest

    I am sure this was all very interesting but it has nothing to do with the subject. The subject being non-factions allying factoins allegedly through use of an exploit.

    This thread is simply another accusation of cheating that has gone unremarked albiet a very tactful accusation.

    If you eliminate the issue under discussion you will still have blues and reds jumping into faction fights because you do not have them inside the bases as intended.

    You are right and this is done at faction strong holds where if you really wish you can eliminate the non faction element by backing up 20 tiles.

    LMAO the people really serious about this are not participating in factions at all would be my guess. They could probably care less.
     
  48. Malador

    Malador Guest

    LMAO