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Thoughts on Griefing?

Discussion in 'EVE General Discussion' started by Vince, Apr 8, 2011.

  1. Vince

    Vince Journeyman
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    Recently, the new chairman of the CSM was in an interview on RPS.

    I've been meaning to ask you guys this lately after seeing that Stratics has alot of sub-communities from other MMO's, I thought it might be possible, but lets see :)

    Would you play the game you do, if griefing was supported, acknowledged as a playstyle by the game developer and possibly rewarding for the griefer?

    Feel free to share why you would or wouldn't...
     
  2. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    Speaking of games in general, I think griefing only really becomes a problem in purely PvM areas. In PvP areas, at least the victim has the ability to retaliate against the griefer.

    Not sure how I feel about developer-supported griefing, though. o_O
     
  3. Vince

    Vince Journeyman
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    Lets say you have the ability to retaliate, by countergriefing.

    When referring to griefing I'm referring to tactics that doesn't involve breaking the game client though (ie. hacking, 3rd party tooling/macroing).

    But stuff like scamming, fooling people to buy something that is advertised as something else, ransom'ing, stealing, breaking your player run player association and other actions that is supported by the game client or game rules, possibly not only adhering to those but also the breaking of social structures in the game in an effort to gain something from it (ie. infiltration), and more...
     
  4. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    Right, that's also my understanding of griefing. We have a lot of it in UO, but because most folks play in PvM areas, no one can retaliate.

    EVE is all PvP, no?
     
  5. Vince

    Vince Journeyman
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    For combat-pvp there are rules and possibly consequenses. EVE isn't all PVP though. There are plenty of non-combat activities.

    Even though, maybe 80% of the players live in areas where the consequenses for turning on your fellow gamers are - or can be, punishable by explosion, plenty of players select the route of (for example) piracy.

    When you get to have large social structures that aim towards the same goal, for example in the form of corporations, alliances or coalitions - you also need to delegate responsibility for the organisation to become rigid and effective and less reliant on few people. When this happens, it opens up for players that can infiltrate your organisation and cripple it to the point where the enemies can take advantage of this and bring it all down.

    This is exactly what the new chairman of the CSM was proud of doing. It wasn't something that had ever been done before, but the rules allowed for it and the devs usually encourage and support sovereighnity changes. He was contacted by a disgruntled director from a corp in an alliance. It just happened to be a director that had the rights (in-game) to boot other member corporations in the alliance as well as shut down their own corp. Without the alliance, no sovereignity over their space - they could lose their posessions in a matter of hours. And they did. Everything they worked for was ripped out from under them.

    At which point does this type of gameplay style appeal and draw players in? Would you leave the game your playing if "bad men" was supported and encouraged in your game, or would you rather live without the frustrations and challenges that follow?
     
  6. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    Well, speaking from my experience with Ultima Online, the installment of a PvM mirror of the original landmass did draw new players, but it also alienated older players. This development was intended to be an anti-griefer measure--and, to that extent, it basically worked. However, it also completely altered the game that many players fell in love with. To the present day, UOers continue to debate whether this was a good idea.

    To apply this lesson to EVE, it is true that griefing may keep new players away, but it's also worth considering that any alterations to current game mechanics could drive away current players.

    It's a risky move, either way, I suppose.
     
  7. Vince

    Vince Journeyman
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    Perhaps we've grown acostumed to trying to prevent griefing behavior instead of acknowledging as a valid playstyle, similar to ... for example ... Roleplaying?
     
  8. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    Well, I've often played a thief in UO, which many players consider a griefing behavior, so perhaps I'm not the best person to ask about it. :D
     
  9. Vince

    Vince Journeyman
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    What causes frustrations with thieves in UO?
     
  10. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    People just don't like to have their items stolen. Go figure. :p
     
  11. Vince

    Vince Journeyman
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    Are there any consequenses for failing a steal?
     
  12. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    I think my view on this should be obvious to anyone who's ever met me.



    Griefing isn't just a hobby, it's a way of life.
     
  13. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    Thieves are typically hidden from view. However, whenever you attempt to steal (successfully or unsuccessfully), you immediately become visible, at which point you may be attacked.
     
  14. Vince

    Vince Journeyman
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    Its definately a source of great entertainment for many!

    What do you typically indulge in, in your preferred MMO?
     
  15. astonix

    astonix Guest

    EVE reminds me of battles for honour. The are no rules per say, but generally people adhere to unwritten rules of conduct. However, there's always going to be some sleeze ball who breaks the honourable conduct for his advantage.

    It's not a particularly attractive feature for new players, as it means they could potentially lose everything they've worked for. However, I think the security system protects from this as it's quite hard to accidentally venture in to 0.0 territory.

    Be careful with whom you trust.