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Thoughts on KR graphics?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by canary, Jan 26, 2009.

  1. canary

    canary Guest

    Question... are there any players (like myself) who do not use the KR client due to the graphics in it? I was thoroughly let down by the *ahem* 'finished product' with the UO:KR art. In my opinion, everything from the muddiness (I own a 22" lcd, and yes imo UO:KR is muddy) to the small things like paperdoll art layering lacks finesse and seems substandard.

    I wanted to like the KR client. Seriously. However, it just looks visually too bad to even want to use it... trust me, I've tried. I can't get over how bad I think most everything looks. Visuals do not make a game but it definitely is something I like to enjoy as I play.

    Does anyone feel like I do? I don't want this to become a 2d vs. KR thread, personally (I actually DO like the 2d client, though I welcome a new one)... just wanted to see if anyone agrees with me... or even if they don't. Thanks.
     
  2. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I think the majority of people don't like the graphics, because well, aside from creature modles and some terrain, the art is amaturish at best. Combine that with an interface that was pretty much trash upon release, and while it is vastly better now, is still cumberson in many situations... Lot of people were shocked with how bad it was upon "release" and never went back.
     
  3. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Several... Many do not like.

    Several do use KR. Some like it more than others.

    Several have submitted much feedback to make it better.

    Several have not given it a chance.

    Several got killed by houses trying KR on Siege.

    Well maybe just me.
     
  4. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    KR is alright, not the best, but it's refreshing after playing 2d. What I don't like about KR is the playability. I'd be willing to play it again after all the fixes it got since I last tried it, but what draws me away from trying it again is having to download the old product and having to sit through the entire patching process.
     
  5. Ghost71

    Ghost71 Guest

    This is my char on 2D, this is my char on KR. Notice how crappy he looks in KR the glasses look like glasses in KR and not sunglasses. The gloves and their layering, the pendant of the magi looks like a perl necklace etc.

    http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/4697/2dkrghostxm7.jpg
     
  6. Fink

    Fink Guest

    My pet complaint is the inconsistencies between 2D and KR graphics:

    - In some cases the new art is so different from its 2D version, it's hard to recognise otherwise familiar objects. A coil of rope looks like a basket, a piece of armour looks like a plant, fishing nets (a staple item of house decoration) have been rotated 45 degrees, etc. A lot of definition is lost when removing that aliased (hard) edge from 2D art, especially as most of the 2D stuff had a black stroke (outline).

    - The KR paperdoll seems to have its own layering priorities, making it difficult to achieve a similar look in both clients. People I see every day look like total strangers in KR. Also the male paperdoll needs to be posed like the male 2D doll, a neutral stance that doesn't impose its own purpose on every character. As it is, it looks like he's always ready to pounce.. hardly any of my characters are ready for war at a moment's notice. My priest looks anything but pious, my bard looks like a barking lunatic, my crafters look like they have rickets.

    - Lore is the third area where inconsistencies have cropped up that I've noticed. The swamp dragon would be a prime example. It's in the UO:LBR fiction that these creatures were bred, or concocted, to have six legs. Now the new swampie art does look pretty cool, but it's hardly the same animal .. or vegetable, as it appears. It looks more like a sapient plant than a mutated wyrm. Then there's a plethora of scaling issues with beetles, dragons, etc.. but that's for another rant.
     
  7. Bara

    Bara Guest

    I love the art in KR.

    The one thing I would change is the paperdolls. Thats the only aspect that is a letdown imho. Female paperdolls look oddly disproportionate and "thick' in places. Makes them look almost masculine. And the males, as already said, are in a really forced and unnatural pose.

    That and make the dragons stop flapping their damn wings all the time! grrrr! I understand that it's a glitch, but it looks tacky as hell. And I know it isn't a difficult thing to fix.

    Everything else, i feel, is a vast improvement. Especially housing and landscape.
     
  8. Phaen Grey

    Phaen Grey Lore Master
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    When KR was first announced and the screen shots released I was excited, upon stepping into the world via KR I was very disappointed, the graphic art for items looked like it was done by kindergartners, all the sizes for things were just way off skew to how they were established in the 2d client. It looks very amateurish to me.
     
  9. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Is it just me? Haven't we been down this road before?
     
  10. canary

    canary Guest

    Well...you could say the same thing about PvP threads. Or gating into courtyard threads. Or why can't humans wear elf clothing threads. Or fel only threads. Or... any topic, really. So no, it's not just you. It's just that there are a TON of threads that are variation on a theme. I mean... you are a mod. You should know this, lol.

    I started this thread because I'm curious how many are actually put off enough by the graphics in KR that it actually becomes the 'deal breaker' to use the client.
     
  11. The graphics in KR are iffy at best, some of it is fine, some of it is embarassing. A little hard on the nervous system at first too it seems.

    But for me as for deal breakers go... It is losing my mouse wheel targeting. :sad4:
     
  12. HD2300

    HD2300 Certifiable
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    Maybe it is because someone posted a "were coming" screenshot of a gargoyle and it looks exactly like KR.
     
  13. Mistura

    Mistura Lore Keeper
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    I think the world looks great in KR but items, paperdolls, mounts and a variety of other things just look awful.

    I've recently bought a laptop with good specs, so i can now run KR smoothly and it is impressive in places however I still far prefer to use the Legacy client with UOA.

    The legacy art for KR looks even worse than the original art in terms of items I feel. Just looks like they've been cut and pasted in. Especially things like soulstones and fountain of life for example. Images of a much lower resolution copied and pasted into a higher resolution setting just doesn't work for me i'm afraid.

    Unless this SA client is going to be significantly different from the KR we have now, I think the best we can hope for is a really well polished "Legacy" version of KR which is more functional and user friendly than the current client.

    That could work for me.
     
  14. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    They both look pretty bad, to me...
     
  15. PsychoKinetic

    PsychoKinetic Journeyman
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    Same here.

    No mouse wheel targeting? No KR for me.
     
  16. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    The reason why I do not use KR is not its graphics. I actually like the environment graphics. Although a lot of the artwork needs to be improved, I still prefer it over 2D.
    What keeps me from using KR is its functionality. It is more difficult to handle, has more bugs and lacks of a lot of features which the 2D client offers (and which are vital especially in critical battle situations).

    However, the SA client seems to be almost finished. So let's look forward and see what the new client brings. From the new SA screenshots it seems that it tries to incorporate the best of both worlds. Not really a graphical innovation, but at least a good client with updated graphics.
     
  17. Difficult to get started in, graphics are acceptable but could (IMO) be less fuzzy-looking to my old eyes. Starting difficulty is my biggest gripe ... I got started in DAoC faster than in KR.
     
  18. Starting difficulty... so true. But once you start in on KR it is just as difficult to go back to 2D. The functionality of KR has greatly improved with its hotbars and macros, and it can be made stable... I haven't had a crash in over a month.

    As far as fuzzy, that can be fixed with user settings. Turn off the shadows (this is what makes it "muddy" looking) and use Legacy graphics. And while you are at it, turn off the idle animation too. Another nice improvement is to change the refresh rate in the XML file from 30 fps to 60 fps. It took a bit of work (which it shouldn't) but it now runs FASTER and is more stable than 2D for me. And now I like the graphics better... and that took a while for the change also.

    My biggest beef with the 2D client now is that it is soooo tiny on a 22" monitor that it is unplayable. OH and beef #2 - you need UOAssist to get it to function well.
     
  19. Ni-

    Ni- Guest

    Actually I was dreading that when my 7 year old computer finally died. It turns out, however, that what you DL now is not the original release. The new screen says 10th anniversery, which, I believe, is different from the original DL. There was some required DLing, but not as much as I had feared.

    I use KR exclusively now. I haven't felt the need to re-DL the 2D client. KR is much faster and much more intuitive for me. One button spell casting/targeting and one button stacked-item looting makes my game play alot less arduous. I also prefer the KR terrain, but graphics aren't a big deal. If they were, would I still be playing UO after 10 years?
     
  20. Ni-

    Ni- Guest

    Is the point of turning off idle animation for less lag or does it help you crash less? I need to try that XML thing.
     
  21. Fink

    Fink Guest

    Ah, in that context I would say no, the art isn't a deal breaker for me.

    I quite like how everything is more 'earthy', blurs and blends aside, sandstone being a major improvement in my opinion. I also like the way grass is grass, not lawn. Malas was one big putting green before KR. Apart from mobiles and items, I do like the general look and feel.

    No the deal breaker for me would have to be gameplay. Yes.. it runs fine, is stable, is smooth, and doesn't eat my entire system.. but no, I still don't like the way it plays. The hardcoded key assignments are annoying enough, the chat system is bothersome no matter which way I configure it, the on-key-release is totally counter-intuitive, the walk/run threshold is too low and not configurable, and the avatar ricochets off walls instead of stopping.

    But I quite like some of the screenshots. :eek:
     
  22. Fink

    Fink Guest

    It's a very secure man who can carry off that kind of costume, even if he is a tailor.
     
  23. Nestorius

    Nestorius Guest

    I used an old laptop (Dell Inspiron 6000), the graphics looked horrible. Bought a Dell 530, which not the most high-end system, and the graphics look great... better than 2D!

    The problem I have now with KR is the containers... even with the skins, they just look bad and the objects in them look messed up. And the thing that makes me vomit is the interface and toolbars. I should at least be able to hide them... they are not needed, they were copied from another game.

    I could probably get used to this, though, if it seemed like Mythic was committed to supporting and improving this client.
     
  24. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    It was the housing art issues for me. I didn't like that the second floor was cut off when inside even if it were open. I didn't like the way the legendary art option was enabled either. It seemed like a knee-jerk reaction to save a poorly received client. I'd like to see the option to use different art offered in the deco tool or a "classic" option when placing a deeded item.

    It is important to me that the base world and all items in it are viewed identically by all. People already have different interpretations of the same art and experience the game differently because of it. UI toggled art only complicates things more.

    I loved the water and the star felds in Malas. The swamp tiles were a little off though. The water in swamps seems to move in waves with the same speed as the ocean water. They should have been made to animate a bit more stagnant looking. I'd also like to see slow dissolve of walls when entering a home or a fade of the outside world when entering a dungeon as opposed to them just blinking off the screen. Thr torch fire was awesome but bled through walls and floors.

    But housing was the deal breaker. I'll be going over it with a fine toothed comb in SA. I really want this to work.
     
  25. Nok

    Nok Lore Master
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    *looks for the hidden door with the portal back to the present* ;)
     
  26. goodgimp

    goodgimp Guest

    Please explain? I use my mouse wheel to target in KR.
     
  27. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    The only thing good about KR is the way it displays a players pack. No way for players to stack items to hide their loots...la
     
  28. I have numerous problems with KR, items are fairly hard to distinguish as are tiles, which is fairly important if you need to do things like cast fields, teleport, drop things on the ground.
    I've had a bug existing from beta where items in grid mode either don't display, display the quantity only or 'flicker' visible/invisible while moving the container, including the grid slots for paperdoll items. (I did report it and ask in the KR forums how/why to resolve it)
    Another bug existing from beta if I try to change direction quickly the character becomes locked in place for unspecified amounts of time.
    The characters ethereal mount often runs on the spot when you've stopped moving & is poorly aligned on the mount.
    No option to use the old targeting system (the simple one: next/self/last/attack last).
    No option to target with the mouse wheel. (major problem for PvP)
    I can't tell how to setup several macros that are simple to do in 2D, this also involves the targeting system.
    I can't tell how to change the update range.
    Chat/journal/system messages/all names/trans circle all are unable to be setup how I would like.
    Movement, especially in animal form is inconsistant making it very hard to tell wether you became unhidden or not.

    All in all, theres a lot of unneccessary features that they've clearly worried about putting in while ignoring some functions of the 2D which might have secured more players.

    There are some places in KR where you walk in and can be quite impressed with what they've done, such as terrathon keep (before entering the star room) looks pretty cool. But all the other problems make it impossible for me to use it for anything other than sight seeing and spying on opponents armour/jewlery.

    None of this is meant as a bash, these are just the reasons I don't use it, I know some of these like the grid view bug seems to only be happening to me.
     
  29. 4th3ist

    4th3ist Journeyman
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    Dude. You have a F'IN PONY TAIL!!!! Did you think it was susposed to make you look badass?!


    //edit Okay okay let me clarify. You're character is equally as flamboyantly gay in each paperdoll. There is no prejudice here. When you have a flaming pink color scheme for your tune with a long pony tail (Even the purple necklacke...) you can't expect your tune to look cool. Unless we're talking about a girl, at which point it might be SLIGHTLY acceptable (at least to me).
     
  30. goodgimp

    goodgimp Guest

    What the... is this information in a FAQ anywhere, and if not, why not?!?!?! I seriously cannot believe what a difference it made, both in visual clarity as well as performance (default frame refresh of 30 and no way to change it in options? What the hell?).
     
  31. Actually way back on Pac a member of the KoP guild always wore pink. Male to the core ... character name was Athos like in the "Three Musketeers". It was his trademark.
     
  32. Gareth_TBH

    Gareth_TBH Guest

    The biggest art letdown in backpack art. When you use legacy art in a free-form container everything is the wrong size and blurry. Resizing to smaller does not help. The items do not fit in the bag the same way and it is not precise like 2d. It's just very poorly done.

    I also still don't think the avatars look as good or move as fluidly as 2d. They still are "stick figure" like to me. Things like wearing robes looks great in 2d, but horrible. The riding animations are still bad with the sprawled legs.
     
  33. Fresley

    Fresley Journeyman
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    Once or twice.
     
  34. It refreshes your screen twice as fast and makes the graphics looks smoother. It also "appears" to run faster, but can't confirm if that is factual or just a perception. I does nothing for lag though.

    Umm... errmm... I've started writing an FAQ twice now, on how to optimize KR and Windows to run it. I've been running only KR since September and have zero crashes... unless I forget to defrag and optimize after a patch. I'll try to spiff the notes up a bit and put it on the KR page if you are interested. KR CAN be made stable, but it does take a little effort. I know, it should be fixed in default, but I'm just offering a bit of help.
     
  35. Yazman

    Yazman Guest

    Is it just me or does KR seem to use the same rendering method for its graphics as games like Lionheart? i.e. all the graphics are actually 3D but a filter type thing is applied to reduce it down to/make it appear as 2D? I believe this is why everything is so fuzzy, as it is the same in other games that use the same technique.

    It does use the Gamebryo engine too I believe so I imagine this is true... and if so, I wish they would just revise it and let it render in native 3D. It would look a hell of a lot better and it would remove the fuzzy/muddy look.
     
  36. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    i think its prett much consensus that half of the game looks awesome and the other half looks hideous. 2d item graphics are the main thing. they are well defined in 2d and very crisp. you know thoes busts of famous people like blackthorn and finigan and such? go look at one in KR, hell post a pic here. it seriously looks like a pair of testicles. were as in 2d it looks like the bust of a man from the shoulder up.
     
  37. Duskofdead

    Duskofdead Sage
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    I love comments that go something like "Oh I love KR! It's such a terrific client! Unfortunately I had playability issues."

    Well... um... if like 60, 70, 80% of us have playability issues that herd us back into the 2d client.... KR is not a good client. A duck's a duck, and this one's a dead one.
     
  38. canary

    canary Guest

    haha you totally are allowed your opinion, but just to reiterate my original idea behind the thread was about the graphics, not if 2d client sucked versus the KR client or anything. :p
     
  39. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I have tried KR on numerous occasions..... my feelings are this:

    First off.... the male paperdoll is ugly as sin...... my character goes from looking like a buff hunk to looking like a middle age, one too many pint drinking flunky..... he's got dunlap almost looks as though he needs a spot to squat in and well it's just not flattering..... at all!....

    Secondly, what in 2d looks like nice rich wood texture in KR looks like a kindergartner painted something in water color..... NOT cool!....

    Next we'll talk about the chests..... I stack mine...... they look nice and neat in 2d.... but in KR look like they mimic an old nag...... swayback anyone??

    Additionally I can't get over the difference in talking..... couldn't we have left all the speech the same????? I can't ever figure out how to party, accept party, chat, guild chat or alliance chat...... VERY annoying.....

    Maps, the radar map in KR looks HORRIBLE!

    And the final deal breaker for me..... I use UOJournal Converter..... I save and store EVERY conversation my characters have in-game... I use this later on to write stories and create logs of meetings...... I can't store my journals in KR......
     
  40. Magnus

    Magnus Journeyman
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    I personally find KR better than 2D in every way, especially the graphics. My eyesight is getting worse and worse, 2D is getting quite difficult to view now a days, so KR is a great thing!
     
  41. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    A man walks down the street, wearing that outfit, and people know he's not afraid of anything.
     
  42. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    After having played KR almost exclusively for over a year, KR's graphics look "right" to me now. They're more detailed, the terrain is MUCH more lush and lively, the house tiles are much more "real" looking (especially the wooden ones, the sandstone as mentioned looks better, however I do think that the marble tiles have lost a bit... they need more "shine").

    And as a bit of a story, I showed a friend who doesn't play UO and only really knows it by name and reputation as an "older game" both clients side by side one account in each standing on the same tile. The almost instant reaction was that KR was "much better". I know that doesn't mean much as it's only one person, but there ya go.

    The biggest issue with KR's graphics (at least right NOW (compared to the initial graphics which WERE a lot more "fuzzy" than they are now as I will easily and freely admit, especially when looking through screenshots I have taken from beta forward)) is one of mental familiarity. After up to 11+ years, the way things look becomes VERY familiar and that is something that people have to fight against when moving from a Legacy client (be it 2d or 3d) to KR. And in some areas, KR did fail. The one notable failure in my mind and the one that took longest to work with is the updated artwork for weapons and armor. Some weapons are COMPLETELY different in KR updated artwork than their Legacy comparisons, so much so that a KR Maul looks like a 2d War Hammer and the axes are difficult to tell apart for a while. In other cases it's an inconcistency with armor sets. Case in point is that the ringmail leggings are leather-brown while the rest of the ringmail suit (arms and chest) are reddish in color, meanwhile, studded leather leggings are the same red of ringmail. Thus the color coordination confuses you when you are looting (especially if you are looting for resources).

    So KR artwork does have some issues, but by and large, I VERY MUCH prefer them over 2d as they are more detailed and scle MUCH better than 2d graphics (which is a must when you have a 22in monitor and using a lower resolution is not really an viable option (flat panel) and you want to see a game window bigger than a postcard.
     
  43. Tuferon

    Tuferon Adventurer
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    I don't like 2D but hate KR. However sticking to graphic issues:
    When I am a ghost I can't see a thing including healers
    My cute li'l ferret comes up to my waist
    Can't care for my plants cause I cannot read these icons and stuff in pack and containers.
    You get the idea, but the deal braker for me was still the interface, It suxks
     
  44. canary

    canary Guest

    Exactly... I have shown friends and most laugh at the graphics of the KR client or say that it looks like play doh. So my experiences with others are, for the most part, totally opposite. Not that they are terribly impressed by either client's graphics. At least the legacy graphics have the excuse they are old as dirt, lol.
     
  45. Hemisphere

    Hemisphere Always Present
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    Actually very little detail is lost through antialising. I think the loss of detail is more likely because they scaled up the art from a lower resolution.
    I always assumed this to be true also, but look through InsideUO and see how many actually do - it's not many. Most of the items with strokes are reused Ultima 8 graphics. UO 2D looks super crisp and awesome because most of the items were designed on a pixel level, with carefully applied highlights and shadows, some of which were clearly edited literally one pixel at a time.

    The KR artists just loaded their 3D models into the renderer and hit "export".
     
  46. Ravenspyre

    Ravenspyre Guest

    I see this crap is still going on. Guess UO has gotten so stale now, no one has anything else to talk about. BTW Hemisphere, you are completely wrong on how the UO 2D graphics were created. They were created the same exact way as the KR graphics are created now. Taking a snap shot of a high resolution model.

    Also with these pics here, i can still see that exploits are quite legal to parade around in.
     
  47. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Actually this is the first thread on KR's graphics in quite a while.
     
  48. Huh? You lost me... what is the exploit? Using the name "Ghost?"
     
  49. Heartseeker

    Heartseeker Guest

    Old Man of UO, that change from going from 30 fps to 60 fps was great.

    This should be on the front page as must see news.
     
  50. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    To be honest, that method doesn't work that well in 2D either, unless the player knows what he is doing. The hidden containers sometimes float on top of whatever items covering them.

    1 way that will work regardless of the thieves' clients is to carrying multiple pouches (and splitting loot btwn them). This should delay the thieves a little and give the player a better chance to see the snooping messages and respond to the thief.

    I don't use KR mainly because of the graphics. The paperdoll is still alright, it's my avatar's in the middle of the screen. My clothes look like they have been too heavily starched. When riding mounts, my feet is on the ground and my llama's front half looks like it's growing out of my torso, and his backside looks like it's growing out of my backside...The scale is all wrong.

    I have problems with the beetles too, when unmounted, the beetles have very nicely rendered colours and graphics. But when mounted, I am sitting too far in front, I know it's the logical place to sit, and sitting further back means I will be sitting on the beautifully coloured wing covers - but at the current position, it looks really weird. The beetle can't fly any way, and the saddlebags that I chug my loot in is probably hidden under the wing covers. Making it perfectly fine if I sit on its wing covers when I am riding it. In fact, it explains why I can't access the beetle's pack when I am mounted.

    Roads and paths are another thing, the KR client has a feature that blends different ajacent tiles together to give a smoother look, but it's working too well, I can barely see where the roads are.

    Crafting system in KR is very good though, esp for the heartwood type quests. And you can mod your own skins, which is a plus.