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Throwing. Is it broken?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Pawain, Aug 17, 2009.

  1. Pawain

    Pawain Crazed Zealot
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    Right now my avatar is standing next to a greater mongbat. He is throwing a cyclone at it. I have yet to hit the creature.

    I have throwing 120 tactics 100 anatomy 100. Also have imbuing, eval int, and mysticism at 120 or so each. 40% HCI

    He will hit a creature the first time he throws a new weapon but never hit it again.

    Been at least 10 min. The mongbat is still alive and never been hit.

    I have tried this with all 3 throwing weapons and have the same result on all creatures. I fly or stand with same results.

    I can remove the weapon and punch the mongat for 1 - 6 damage, I miss a lot.

    Do I have the skills correct? Is it my guy or something else?

    Thanks

    Or is a mongbat too difficult for him? 20 mins: mongat still alive
     
  2. Shelleybean

    Shelleybean Certifiable
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  3. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    Throwing has penalties if you are throwing too close or too far away, huge penalties for throwing point blank. You need to find the "sweet spot" distance and keep yourself at that range from the target. Strength and Dexterity will affect these.

    If you want to using a throwing weapon at melee range, you can use swordsmanship to overcome much of the penalties.

    It takes some practice (others can provide better guidance).

    doh! I keep forgetting to refer people to the playguide. Thanks Shelleybean.
     
  4. TheGrayGhost

    TheGrayGhost Guest

    You didn't get the Memo? Mongbats have the same stats and skills as GDrags now! Run man, Run!!!!!!!!!

    Seriously though, I haven't had any issue's with throwing so far. Anything more specific you can give us?

    Edited to Add:
    Didn't read the "Standing Next to it" part, sorry lol. That is the likely cause.
     
  5. Pawain

    Pawain Crazed Zealot
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    I am now in Luna. I found a grey pack horse to attack. I have yet to hit it from any distance.

    The link said there is a penalty. I am never hitting! At any distance.

    I am in Luna, West of bank just inside the walls. The horse is not tamed and he is not getting hit by me.

    Dex is 62, str is 100.

    Thanks
     
  6. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    Appears to be something about the pack horse. I can't attack it either, although if I lure a bird to the same area and hit it.

    Not sure if this is normal or not, I can't remember ever attacking a pack horse.
     
  7. Mayadevi

    Mayadevi Guest

    Same as Pawain. Gm everything, can't damage a mongbat, rat , tsuki wolf ...or anything else for that matter, From ANY distance. Soon as I unequip throwing weapon, I kill them in one hit ( 0 wrestling). It seems to be hitting, just not doing any damage. I sent in a bug report last night, as soon as it was obvious it's bugged.
     
  8. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    What was the source of your weapon? Bought? Crafted? Looted? Reward?

    (if take a new character over to the smith by the soulforge in the Royal city and buy a plain weapon, then set the skills, does it work any differently for you? If you retarget/attack when up close, does it throw?)
     
  9. Pawain

    Pawain Crazed Zealot
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    I just killed the horse with a spell. Now I have a great hart in the same place.

    I dont hit it either....

    Here is a pic of the horse. I kill them all the time.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. ya u dont want too be too close or too far away. stay a couple steps away from the monster and u should do fine. i just used throwing to get the gold skull
    from the bone deamon in doom.i thought the .....quick question have u tried all three throwing wepons or only one of them. the reason i say that is i realized while typing this i have only used the 3 sec boomerang maybe the 2 sec and 4 sec are having problems.
     
  11. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    Sorry about chasing it away ... was checking if I could hit it with a plain cyclone (which I could).

    I saw you throw at it as it retreated so I'm at a loss ... I'll have to get an abyss reaver and check again.
     
  12. Mayadevi

    Mayadevi Guest

    I tried both the newbie weapon, several crafted weapons I picked up at the smiths in haven, and one of which i bought. I have tried at least one weapon of each type. i hadn't tried imbuing my own because it was late at night and then early in the morning and I wasn't awake enough to try imbueing. Needed more caffeine for that :p

    I'll try buying and imbuing my own later today. The weapons seem to hit, but not do any damage, at least that is what the graphic makes it look like, I could be wrong.

    At first i thought throwing was just pointless since i was aiming at tsuki wolves ( I know how my archer hits them, and wanted a direct comparison)
    When I couldn't damage a rat I put the weapon in my backpack and killed it instantly. At which point I sent in a bug report.
     
  13. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Why does archery not have these penalties for being x amount of tiles away when you should be y amount of tiles away? Answer me that.
     
  14. Brynthe

    Brynthe Guest

    Its your shield.. took me forever to figure that out the other day. Unequip the shield and it will work again. I've submitted a bug report on it.

    If its not intended to be used with a shield, then they need to prevent it from being equipped at the same time, otherwise, they need to obviously fix it doing damage while a shield is equipped.
     
  15. Pawain

    Pawain Crazed Zealot
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    YAY!

    You are correct, it was the shield! The weapons say one-handed. I took the shield off and all the types I have work.

    Too good to be true that you could also equip a shield with them.

    Thanks!

    Thanks to Maplestone for stopping in game to check it.
     
  16. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    Its not a bug. Read up on the skill. You need to have Parry to not get hit chance penalties with a shield. That is the price of being able to have a shield on a ranged skill.

    Remember, Throwing is NOTHING like Archery. As soon as you get over that idea, its becomes easier to work with :)
     
  17. Pawain

    Pawain Crazed Zealot
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    No No

    This is not a penalty. I was throwing at a mongbat, pack mule, and hart. I never hit any of then one time! I left my guy there for over an hour. He was still throwing.

    It is a bug. Either it is a 2 handed weapon or it is broken when you use a shield.

    Penalty does not mean you never hit.
     
  18. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    It is a HUGE penalty. Just for the sake of "argument" (tho I don't want to argue, I just want to make sure the test is thorough) - put parry on the character and try it again, see what the results are.

    Throwing was broken alot during closed beta, so we did not get as much opportunity to thoroughly test it as other things. :)

    From the guide for reference:

     
  19. Pawain

    Pawain Crazed Zealot
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    OK.

    I put parry to 120 and I can hit stuff.

    I put parry to 20 and I miss a lot.

    The site states the amount of penalty for tile distance. Why doesn't it mention that the shield/parry penalty is HUGE or better yet, give some examples with numbers?

    At this point it is easier to drop the shield and be able to use potions and stones.

    I think the penalty is too high. I should be able to hit a rabbit without parry.
     
  20. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    I believe that they are not 100% ready to release it with the current numbers. So rather than making confusion by releasing numbers that may change, they have just not.

    You *can* hit a rabbit, just not with a shield in your hand (and why would you need a shield against a rabbit, anyway?) Remember, it is *supposed* to be a slap on the hand for using an item you have no skill with. Basic idea is that you are so clumsy with the shield in one hand and trying to throw with the other (without skill) that you just suck at it :p (not saying I agree or disagree with current design, just stating the design idea.)

    Another question I had, to help me understand your testing fully, what are you stats? How much Dex and Strength do you have. These two things also have profound effects on Throwing.
     
  21. Pawain

    Pawain Crazed Zealot
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    My stats are in a pic earlier in this thread. I have the skills screen open so they can be seen.


    I switched around the dex and int but I never hit with a shield.

    You can take off the shield and when you put it back on you will hit the target on the first throw. But without parry, you will never hit it again.

    The first throw thing carries over to a new target even if you stop fighting and start again later.

    I like the skill even if I cant equip a shield.

    Thanks
     
  22. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    wow. I had heard that shields affected throwing, but I guess I hadn't actually tried it myself ... good catch Brynthe.
     
  23. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    I think throwing is currently broken. I made a post on beta forum but no one replied with a straight answer.

    Ok to give you a rough idea, hit chance increase and defensive chance increase can go as high as 62%. DEV said its a direct modifier against your ITEM MODS. If you have 45 hci using a soul glaive at melee range you get 62% hci panalty (might not be exactly 62 but its close enough)... this is not -62hci for you, this means your hit chance increase is lowered by 62%.
    e.g.
    45hci*(1-.62)= 17hci at point blank. I say i think it is bugged because even at highest hci penalty which shouldnt have anything to do with your SKILL CHANCE TO HIT you should be hitting a rabbit or a mongbat 99% of the time.

    Also using a shield without parry gives you similar DCI penalty, which shouldnt have anything to do with your hit chance.

    I could be wrong and I am too lazy to look thru beta forum, but personally I whiffed twice in a row on greater mongbat with 120 throwing, I think it's not working correctly. I did end up killing it at point blank range tho.
     
  24. Zero Day

    Zero Day Guest

    Throwing with a shield with 0 parry skill effectively reduces your hit chance to 0.

    Not 0 % hit chance Increase. But 0 % chance to hit.

    so if you have 45% hci from jewelery thats 45% bonus or 145% of your chance to hit.

    145% chance to hit of 0 chance is still 0.

    Throwing isnt broken, but running around with a shield on is heavily penalized if you dont have the parry skill.
     
  25. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    Throwing needs a skill tutor all of its own: "too close! too far! you're using it as a sword! no, no throw the weapon, parry with the shield!"
     
  26. Brynthe

    Brynthe Guest

    Thanks. It was driving me nuts the other day when it was happening to me and took me 15 minutes or so (with a death or two thrown in for good measure) to put two and two together to realize it changed after I'd equipped a shield.

    As for the penalty, admittedly I hadn't read up on throwing, so I wasn't aware of it.. BUT the penalty is obviously too high. If I had never played the game before, and created a gargoyle with throwing as my first character, and equipped a shield and couldn't hit a single thing EVER.. without any kind of in game warning.. then I'd be pretty disappointed with the game.

    I get the reason for the penalty, and that there has to be a trade off to get the benefits of the shield, etc., but clearly the penalty is much harsher than what I believe was intended. Either way, throwing still needs some work, and will need a system message or something when equipping a shield, or when throwing while a shield is equipped and you miss, to point you to the problem if they plan on leaving this in.
     
  27. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    You have to have very high dex to off-set hit chance penalties, as well. High Str to off-set damage penalties.

    Again, I am only gathering information. It seems that they need to adjust the Parry penalty some - if a person doesnt hit at all, they assume it is broken; if they miss alot but still hit some, they may think "what am I missing here, what don't I know about this skill"

    FWIW, Zared (husband) worked extensively with Throwing and he made the exact same mistake at one point - forgot he had a shield on and assumed "broken".