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[Throwing] THROWING TEMPLATE HELP NEEDED

Discussion in 'UO Warrior' started by Merlin, Oct 6, 2015.

  1. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
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    One of the few warrior skills I’ve yet to make a jump into yet has been THROWING. The skill is completely new to me, as is using the gargoyle race in general. Having said that, I was searching Stratics for some threads about various templates and seem to have come across a wide array of different set ups, so I wanted to ask the inevitable question: What is your thrower template? What are the advantages/disadvantages? Please share some knowledge with me!

    Here are some of the templates I have seen:
    Necro/Wraith Thrower
    Stealth/Ninja Thrower
    Paladin/Bushido Thrower
    Sampire Thrower
    Mystic Thrower

    A few notes/comments of my own:
    • I already have a Wraith Archer, so I probably wasn’t planning on doing a Wraith Thrower, unless I am told that it is truly the only viable thrower template.

    • Stealth/Ninja Thrower templates I’ve seen appear to be more geared toward PvP and this toon would be for PVM. Is there any special advantage for using a garg in this set up?

    • I like the idea of a Paladin/Bushido thrower… but is this too basic? Is this just a support role toon, in the vein of an ABC Archer? Would this actually be worth using?

    • I am interested in a “sampire” type of Thrower. I currently run a regular swords Sampire that I use for champ spawns and certain peerless bosses, but how would a thrower compare? I guess you can’t exactly tank bosses or spawns and there are no ‘whirlwind’ type special moves for throwers that I know of for fighting numerous mobs. What are the pluses for this template?

    • Combining a spellcaster skill with a melee skill usually sounds like a bad idea, but this Mystic Thrower template really intrigues me, but also confuses me. I am guessing you can cast an RC for tanking purposes and then just sit behind the RC and hit your target with throwing special moves. However, what are the limits of this template? What do you do about LRC? What other spells are you casting? This template seems like it would need strength, intelligence and dexterity, so what is your set up with base stats?

    I am probably going to use a Mythic Token (yes, I’m one of those people) whenever I decide on a template here. So any advice I can get before I do that would be greatly helpful. I typically put 7 skills on all of my toons, with atleast 6 above GM and usually try to incorporate as much skill as possible on other jewels/talismans, etc.

    Any other tips about throwing in general or gargoyle gear would be greatly appreciated. Once I have template set up, I will likely make another post looking for some gargoyle gear, as it is something I am completely ignorant about at this time. Any other threads or resources which might discuss this would be helpful.
     
  2. Lord GOD(GOD)

    Lord GOD(GOD) Lore Keeper

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    I've had several though a lot of the perks that it once had (overcapped HCI, higher base damage) have been nerfed to be inline with Archery.

    120 Throwing
    120 Tactics
    120 Anatomy
    120 Bushido
    100 Necro
    70 SS
    70 Chiv

    Probably my main Thrower, previously had bandages, previously solo'd Slasher. Can use Vamp Form, Wraith Form, Curse Weapon, Summon Familiars, top damager in most situations. Uses the Berserker's Breastplate.

    120 Throwing
    90 Tactics
    110 Ninjitsu
    100 Hiding
    80 Stealth
    75 Healing
    75 Anatomy
    70 Chiv

    Red Stealth/Thrower, however, you can solo just about everything in PvM with this too although the Hiding and Stealth are redundant in those situations. Things like Meph are no challenge. Also using 100 RPD, , non Phys weapons and 18 HPR.

    120 Throwing
    120 Swords
    100 Tactics
    120 Bushido
    100 Anatomy
    100 Necro
    60 Chiv

    Secondary shard character (meaning no house/limited equipment) this is for spawning very fast using the Talwar for Whirlwind/Hit Area, although you can do a similar effect with Momentum Strike/Hit Area (which is great if your first target is at a distance as you damage most of the screen). Extremely fast at spawning, Whirlwind the levels then AI spam the champ.
    ---

    Mystic/Thrower, this would be a non optimum build, given the speed constraints of Stone Form, much better to be Mystic/Mace or Fencer. The Stone Form prevents a host of things like Curses (which means your bandage speed can't be dropped) and Poisons, you can easily make a full LRC dexxer suit, Enchant Weapon will make your weapon Spell Chan so you can cast Mystic spells, and add 60 Hit Spell, on things that counter attack where this would be unhelpful you can set it to Dispel, Healing Stone/Cleaning Wind/Spell Trigger(also set to Cleansing Wind) and Colossus (personally I tank so the Colossus lives longer). Played in Protection due to the Stone Form casting penalties there's no reason not to. Takes some working out but not difficult to build a Corpse proof, Prot proof all 85's suit. A lot of fun but very intense to play, you won't get bored trying to upkeep all the things you have to do, this isn't the typical 'spam dexxer specials' template, it's a different play style, sort of auto defend like a Ninja, which is why high base damage weapons you can swing at cap are preferred after penalty. The general point of a Stone Form dexxer is uninterruptible bandages and the ability to fight things that you can't if relying on leeches against things that freeze you (like Slasher).
     
  3. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
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    Lord God - Thank you very much for the response. You were one of the folks who I was hoping would provide some insight here, as I saw your name come up in many of the other Thrower threads.

    I think I am going to use something very close to your 'main thrower' template above to create my next toon. A few questions for you:

    For your skill point allocation... why 120 anat and bushido, as opposed to 100? Is this primarily for the damage bonus? I was just wondering if the extra 20 points in each skill might be better in either Chiv or SS.

    Are you primarily using chiv for EOO, Concentrated Wep and Divine Fury?

    Why no resist spells? Are you relying on Remove Curse for this?

    If I were to use a mythic token to create that template... I'm looking at throwing, tactics, necro, bushido and... what potential 5th skill would you use?

    Most of my mages have either mystic or spellweaving as a complimentary skill, as opposed to necro. Are you using familiars frequently in your game play? Aside from the spells you named, are there any others you use somewhat regularly?

    Here is my other area of real ignorance: gargoyle gear. I presume you have high stam, LMC. Any other particular arties you use? Do you primarily wear imbued/reforged gear? Or major/legendary artifact gear dropped in game? Any tips/pointers here would be appreciated.


    Thanks again so much and hope you don't mind the questions!
     
  4. Lord GOD(GOD)

    Lord GOD(GOD) Lore Keeper

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    Short answer, yes. The goal with the character was to be the hardest hitter, this was before they changed Throwing base damage to the same as Archery, it used to AI for 273 I don't know what it does now. An extra 20 SS I don't think is going to make a lot of difference, when things that run out of mana run out of mana you're mainly going to be leeching from the Hit effect anyway. I'm unconvinced on the benefits of Chivalry at higher levels.

    I primarily use EoO, I never use Divine Fury, I rarely use Consecrate because it is essentially an AI spammer. I use Sacred Journey, Dispel Evil, and Remove Curse.

    Mainly because I wouldn't give up damage for defense on a leecher. Remove Curse and apples.

    I'm not familiar with how Mythic tokens work, but from what you're saying they sound like Advaned Character tokens? None of the skills on this template are hard to do or take longer than a couple of days so I'd probably sell it.

    I like having the option. I tend to utilize everything available to me no matter how small. Like on some fights where neither Vamp or Wraith is a good choice I might use Horrific Beast or Lich. I use the familiars for Horde Minions for carrying more gold back from spawns (I don't often bother with this on my main shard) or looting at idocs. Wisp for Mana, not something I've actually done (I have done it on my main Necro/Mage) is bond a pair of Bakes to use with the Dark Wolf. I've also used Corpse Skin 100% fire weapons, Strangle, Pain Spike, Revenants, Exorcism (which I don't think is currently working). I could Wither, but in general I avoid using Necro spells on this template unless the fight requires it, so I can keep my Karma up for Remove Curse.

    T.jpg

    I couldn't be bothered to type it all out individually as I've just finished a long shift, but the suit is actually a bit out of date, pre legendaries/reforging. The main goals were max damage, and stats (I can't remember the exact reasoning) because when it came out having 150 Str/Dex did something to your over/under throw penalties. I don't know if that's even still the case. The above obviously doesn't include the weapon. Base stats are 123 Str, 122 Dex, 10 Int, I haven't yet eaten a valiant scroll on any character. I also pretty much never have the town bonus.
     
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  5. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
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    Totally awesome man. So much appreciated for the full response. Once I get more play time on the toon, I will follow up with any additional questions. :) :) :)
     
  6. Prime.

    Prime. Sage
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    Hihih, may I ask what the 70 in SS is for?? Dark Wolf?
     
  7. Lord GOD(GOD)

    Lord GOD(GOD) Lore Keeper

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    It's for Wraith Form and Curse Weapon mainly.
     
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  8. Prime.

    Prime. Sage
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    Awesome, thank you!
     
  9. Elias

    Elias Visitor

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    Thanks Lord God.

    Could I ask what you run on your weapons for a Spawn killer [hit area?] and a Solo Boss killer?

    Thanks!
     
  10. Lord GOD(GOD)

    Lord GOD(GOD) Lore Keeper

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    SSI/DI/Slayer/Hit Area/HML + Momentum Strike for spawn.

    Replace Hit Area with Stam Leech for bosses.
     
  11. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
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    Here's an update on what my toon currently looks like:

    115 Throwing (120 with wing armor)
    110 Tactics (120 with Talisman)
    100 Anatomy
    100 Bushido
    100 Necro
    100 Focus
    70 Chivalry

    I have about 25 skill points left to work up. I decided to go with Focus instead of SS because I am doing Vamp Form more often than Wraith forum and wanted to have better Stam and Mana regen. I will probably bring Chiv up to 80 or 90 and then throw the remaining points somewhere else. I made the toon to rely on pots to get over 180 stam. I never had made use of pots on other toons yet, so figured it was time to experiment. I have a full set of slayer soul glaives and able to contribute on pretty much any spawn or boss we run. I'm debating if I want to bring Bushido up to 120 or possibly augment some other skill a little higher with some jewels.

    Also, most of the stam gear I am running has 8 stam. I wouldn't mind buying some 10 stam gear if anyone has anything that would be useful.
     
  12. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    How do Focus help you in PvM? You get much mana and stamina from HML and HSL.

    There is not much difference between 100 and 80 Bushido for your template.

    How do you cure high level poison when you have low HP?
     
  13. kaio

    kaio Sage
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    If youre gonna do spawns, i assume you will be doing fel spawns. How are you gonna deal with "raids" ?
    - purge magic, and poof no more vamp form.
    - mana vamp, you cant use specials.
    - dismount, your f*cked.
    - paralyze, u will need to carry a box.

    In general i think your char is too weak for fel/spawns when and if u get raided.

    Corwin has some good points also, i agree with him actually.
     
  14. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
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    Right now, I only have Focus on the template as a filler. I am not certain what else to put on here.

    Any suggestion from your end? Boost up Bushido and Chivalry? Replace entirely with SS? Maybe replace something else and add Mysticism to cast RC's?

    I haven't been in that scenario much, but it's a good point. Because I am one handed, I suppose I could get some pots. So far, I have been using Cleanse by Fire to address poison.

    This character isn't build for PVP, so I hadn't kept being raided in mind. However, I've also noticed raids happening a lot less frequently as of late and my guild usually roles in groups of 5 or more, so my strategy would be to run and hope the raiders get someone else. Haha.

    How would you suggest I make changes?
     
  15. kaio

    kaio Sage
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    If i were to make a thrower for fel spawns, and had a team.
    I think i would make a "classic" thrower, with skills something like this.

    120 throw (real)
    120 tact (real)
    100 ana
    100 heal
    100 ninja
    105 resist (i would buff this to 120, +15 on either ring or brac)
    075 chiv (i would buff this to 90)

    It is arguable if u need resisting spells or not. I really like having resist on my chars, this u can however swap for necro.
     
  16. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    Greater Cure has low chance to cure high level poison. And you need 110+ chivalry to get good chance to cure using Cleanse by Fire.
    Well, you may have second set of jewels with 30 chivalry + 2/6 casting and switch before casting Cleanse by Fire (and +50 EP if you haven't EP on your main jewels so switch before using Greater Str/Dex).

    I suggest you move 20 points from bushido (80) to chivalry (90). 80 bushido is enough for Perfection and to get 200 points for mana cost reduction. With 90 chivalry you can bust it up to 120 to cure.
    As to focus you can replace it with resisting spells or healing. You also can try ninjitsu (to get 300 points for mana reduction) or spirit speak (to use Wither on spawns and wraith form against some bosses).
     
  17. Lord GOD(GOD)

    Lord GOD(GOD) Lore Keeper

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    Often overlooked but you can actually solo all the champs with this quite easily. Even Meph for example with Mirror Images. Having the Healing/Resist on there means you can hold your own in PvP too.
     
  18. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    Meph is easy. I use a Bladed Staff without HLL against it. Bushido Confidence is enough to heal.
     
  19. Kayne.

    Kayne. Journeyman
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    I recently returned to UO and I am looking at making a thrower
    Kind of a fun idea a friend and I had -

    Sampire thrower, bit of a tight template for use in PvM and able to survive a little bit if raided at a spawn or something. I know GM resist doesn't compare to 120 with PKs but it's something at least. Able to rez with bandies and dish out decent damage. I don't really believe in chiv ever being super high.

    120 Throwing
    100 resist
    90 tact (with +10 to GM)
    100 bushido
    100 necro
    100 anat
    60 chiv
    50 healing(+30 on jewelry)
     
  20. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
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    Granted, I'm still working on my template too... but you seem to have ALOT of ways to heal yourself: Life Leach from Vamp Form from Necro, Bushido Confidence, Close Wounds from Chiv and using Healing bandages. What are you primarily using?
     
  21. Max Blackoak

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    I always assumed healing and anatomy had to be 80 realskill to be able to res...maybe I am wrong.

    Why not go for this:
    120 Throwing
    120 resist
    120 bushido
    100 tact
    100 ana
    100 necro
    60 chiv (with +skill on jewels allows you to cast noble sacrifice to res)

    better damage output and increased survivability...
     
  22. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
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    So after originally creating this toon and this thread, I got busy on other side projects, notably suiting up all of my other toons. So my thrower got neglected for a while. I am back to focusing on the template (and suit) again before I focus on any other new templates. Here is an update:

    The following are the skills I've currently set myself up with...
    120 Throwing
    120 Tactics
    120 Anatomy
    090 Healing
    090 Chivalry
    100 Necromancy
    080 Bushido


    Some thoughts on my current skills:
    I probably have TOO many ways to heal. Between life leach from Necro, bandages from Healing, Close Wounds from Chivalry, Confidence from Bushido. I was contemplating dropping Necro or Healing. What it comes down to is that I need to play the template more to figure out what works best for my personal game mechanics. I also don't know exactly what I would replace it with. Maybe Resist Spells, maybe Med/Focus for Mana/Stam regen. Maybe Spirit Speak if I wanted to go the 'Whammy' route. I also find that I'm not using Bushido too terribly much. Maybe I need to do some more Peerless bosses so I can make use of Honor.

    I'm currently using Throwing mastery. I think this is actually one of the better masteries, as I use the two specials quite a bit and find them effective. However, I wouldn't mind getting the +15 mana bonus from eating a level 3 Chiv or boosting Bushido up to 90 (should I decide to use it more).

    I'm also looking to get suited up. Looking to buy some stone pieces with high stam and LMC. See trader's hall thread here: Buying Armor - Buying thrower armor (stone, stam, LMC)
     
  23. Lord GOD(GOD)

    Lord GOD(GOD) Lore Keeper

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    Don't forget if you're building the suit, that the Gargish Amulet is jewellery, and although you can enhance it (and waste tool charges) it won't gain any resists.

    Having the Throwing mastery is probably the best option. It also makes you harder to disarm.

    I would stone out Healing for SS, and adjust Chivalry down and Bushido up.

    Med/Focus are not needed.

    Use Momentum Strike with Hit Area and slayers, in combination with Attack Next you can quite often clear 2 areas of a screen.
     
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  24. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    Looks nice for me. I wouldn't change anything.
    Try to get 220 stamina suit.
     
  25. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    Reforge Soul Glaves for 48 HML 30 SSI
     
  26. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    Keep in mind you need 300 combat points for lowest mana use. it doesnt really matter if you use the skills or not. you can get away with 200, but youll definitely notice the difference. if using only 200 using wraith form or overcap mana leech glaives might be good.

    Special Moves - UOGuide, the Ultima Online Encyclopedia
     
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  27. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    200 is enough if you have 48 HML. (but It's a good idea to get few stone armor pieces)
     
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  28. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
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    Thanks gentlemen.

    I would love to be able to get to 300, but based on the available skills to use with this, I would have to materially alter the skill template I currently have just to add in 100 points of a skill I may or may not use much. I will probably end up with 200 combat points, take the advice on getting some overcapped mana leach weapons, and am currently in the market for good stone pieces as noted here: Buying Armor - Buying thrower armor (stone, stam, LMC)
     
  29. chester rockwell

    chester rockwell Journeyman
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    Pro-tip: I will try to AI a guildmate a few times when the raiders show up. It makes it easier to get away if they have someone else already low in health.
     
  30. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
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    Ha. I probably won't be knocking down any guild mates in the process of escaping a raid. But good to know if I'm with a bunch of blues I'm not a fan of.
     
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