1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Time to fix Dismount

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Death Adder, Mar 5, 2008.

  1. Death Adder

    Death Adder Guest

    Pet balls were never really a legitimate defense anyway, IMO, but now that they're nerfed they are completely unsuitable as a response to Dismounting. Therefore, the "Dismount isn't unbalanced because you can counter it with petballs" argument is no longer just weak but completely untenable.

    So, let's fix Dismount properly. The problem, as I see it, is the permanence of its effects. Sure, in theory there's only a 6 second remount delay. In practice it lasts forever because 1) if you're on an ethereal, the (ridiculous) 5-sec casting time makes it impossible to remount one in combat, or 2) if you're on a live mount, it gets killed before the remount delay expires.

    My solution? Make the effect temporary, instead of permanent. Change the effect of Dismounting such that it only slows the target down to walking speed for a set duration (in addition to the extra damage Dismount causes). Once the timer wears off, the target is back to full speed. This would make Dismount a strong tactic that must be aggressively and strategically applied, instead of the current over-powered nonsense that results in auto-kills by anyone smart enough to remember their name.

    As a second possible solution, we might consider reducing the casting time for ethereals to something reasonable, like between 1 and 2 seconds.
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Oh, hey, I don't think Leurocian mentioned - and I'm not at all sure QA has checked - but the ethereal casting time was bugged. It was intended to be three seconds, but wasn't getting called correctly, and Leurocian fixed that.
     
  3. Death Adder

    Death Adder Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Oh, hey, I don't think Leurocian mentioned - and I'm not at all sure QA has checked - but the ethereal casting time was bugged. It was intended to be three seconds, but wasn't getting called correctly, and Leurocian fixed that.

    [/ QUOTE ]Excellent news... still seems like it might be a bit long, though. Perhaps 2 sec?
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I guess I am alone in thinking that it makes total sense that if you are dismounted you are probably gonna stay that way a whole fight, and that if you are dismount ganked you SHOULD die (i am usually the one dying btw).

    If I were fighting some dude on a horse and I had a weapon bigger than a dagger in my hand, I would kill his horse, thus dismounting him, to get him down where I can fight him. With his horse dead, he would be having a hard time remounting it, now wouldnt he? He might by chance run away from me and take someone elses horse that isnt dead ... but it wont be easy ....
     
  5. Azmira Zalof

    Azmira Zalof Guest

    Unfortunately, with the speed of most clown-shoes nowadays, dismount seems to be a necessary staple of PvP. Find a fix for the f***ing marathon that happens every time you attack someone, then fix dismount. [​IMG]
     
  6. The petball change was needed to combat petballing tamers but you are right, if the casting delay is applied to petballs, dismount will go from almost certain death to unavoidable death.

    Could we just remove dismount as a special on the heavy X bow?

    I mean if someone stealths up to me and dismounts me with a club...well, I had it coming.

    If someone manages to get me off my mount with a bola...well, I'm just dumb.

    But hidden archers who can stealth on to your screen and dismount you with a heavy while simultaneously doing 40 or so damage is a bit much.

    Make the specials on the heavy moving shot (very effective) and something else....maybe crush or concussion.
     
  7. I think that dismounts should only be obtainable with 4 items.
    Hallys, Lances, Warhammers, and Bolas
    Atleast that would give people a reason to use those three weps.
     
  8. Death Adder

    Death Adder Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Unfortunately, with the speed of most clown-shoes nowadays, dismount seems to be a necessary staple of PvP. Find a fix for the f***ing marathon that happens every time you attack someone, then fix dismount. [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]I know many people (including myself) who have killed zillions of opponents without ever Dismounting them. It's not, and has never been, necessary to win in PvP.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>


    Time to fix Dismount


    [/ QUOTE ]

    /agree
     
  10. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Unfortunately, with the speed of most clown-shoes nowadays, dismount seems to be a necessary staple of PvP. Find a fix for the f***ing marathon that happens every time you attack someone, then fix dismount. [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]I know many people (including myself) who have killed zillions of opponents without ever Dismounting them. It's not, and has never been, necessary to win in PvP.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    but it sure helps on the mofu cheating svines who speedhack....
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    There is nothing wrong with dismount. But they should change bolas. Originally bolas were 1 use but then they became infinite use. It would be better if they "broke" a percentage of the time, say 33%.
     
  12. Here's the real issue:

    dismount is just a band aid on how they screwed up stamina if you played long enough you would remember when runing would cause your stamina to drop a lot more (pre focus) it used to drop like crazy. so they changed it.

    now with the change people can run forever with focus or even human joat.

    so everyone wanted dismount so people couldnt run away.

    i think the real solution is to adjust how long and fast players can run and get rid of dismount. no more crazy insta kill dismount ganks but still an good chance if they dont get away quick that you can kill them.
     
  13. Nerf-Herder

    Nerf-Herder Guest

    I personally think that instead of nerfing dismount, they should give us incentive to fight on foot. Reduce ALL damage generated by a player when that player is on a mount by 25% (and I do mean ALL damage... Weapon, spell, pets, explode pots).

    We would have to choose between being more mobile yet doing less damage, or doing full damage yet not being so mobile.

    Maybe it's time we all got off of our high horses...
    *rimshot*
     
  14. I don't think dismount special needs changing, it just means using a live mount rather than having one on pet ball (in fact it'll save some insurance!).

    Bolas however I think should either break or be removed completely.
     
  15. <blockquote><hr>

    I personally think that instead of nerfing dismount, they should give us incentive to fight on foot. Reduce ALL damage generated by a player when that player is on a mount by 25% (and I do mean ALL damage... Weapon, spell, pets, explode pots).

    We would have to choose between being more mobile yet doing less damage, or doing full damage yet not being so mobile.

    Maybe it's time we all got off of our high horses...
    *rimshot*

    [/ QUOTE ]Bing! beat me to it! [​IMG]

    Okay ...

    once dismounted ... remains dismounted for the duration ..
    everybody gets their "dismount on"
    everybody fights afoot ...
    pull abit of fur off the animal form guy ...
    same same as everyone else ...
    on foot as a Human/Elf ...
    fight and rez and maneuver afoot ...

    mounts for arriving and leaving ...
     
  16. pikon198

    pikon198 Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I personally think that instead of nerfing dismount, they should give us incentive to fight on foot. Reduce ALL damage generated by a player when that player is on a mount by 25% (and I do mean ALL damage... Weapon, spell, pets, explode pots).

    We would have to choose between being more mobile yet doing less damage, or doing full damage yet not being so mobile.

    Maybe it's time we all got off of our high horses...
    *rimshot*

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That sounds like a sweet idea actually. Running around on foot is great fun. Just add when in animal form damage is reduced by 25% also [​IMG]
     
  17. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend GoT

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,627
    Likes Received:
    1,390
    After pet balls were announced as nerfed, I meant to make a posting saying it would less than 24 hrs before something else would be screamed about next....I was right.
     
  18. Yeah. Who'd have thought that changing core game mechanics would have consequences in other areas of the game too? Crazy...
     
  19. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend GoT

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,627
    Likes Received:
    1,390
    I wasn't aware that pet balls were directly related to dismount. My point was , how quickly the PvP scene jumps at the next "hey this is unbalanced, fix it now". Could one of you die hard PvPrs please explain or describe to me, the perfect "Balanced" PvP encounter? This should make for some good reading...or will it?
     
  20. when did petballs get nerfed?
     
  21. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Pet balls were never really a legitimate defense anyway, IMO, but now that they're nerfed they are completely unsuitable as a response to Dismounting. Therefore, the "Dismount isn't unbalanced because you can counter it with petballs" argument is no longer just weak but completely untenable.

    So, let's fix Dismount properly. The problem, as I see it, is the permanence of its effects. Sure, in theory there's only a 6 second remount delay. In practice it lasts forever because 1) if you're on an ethereal, the (ridiculous) 5-sec casting time makes it impossible to remount one in combat, or 2) if you're on a live mount, it gets killed before the remount delay expires.

    My solution? Make the effect temporary, instead of permanent. Change the effect of Dismounting such that it only slows the target down to walking speed for a set duration (in addition to the extra damage Dismount causes). Once the timer wears off, the target is back to full speed. This would make Dismount a strong tactic that must be aggressively and strategically applied, instead of the current over-powered nonsense that results in auto-kills by anyone smart enough to remember their name.

    As a second possible solution, we might consider reducing the casting time for ethereals to something reasonable, like between 1 and 2 seconds.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You are wrong however because with good DCI on my dexxer I can easily remount my ethy in combat yes I fail to remount occasionally but it should be difficult seeing as I am in the middle of fighting someone. I do think though that anyone who dismounts should also be restricted from mounting again on the same delay as those who were dismounted but I really cant see dismount being unbalanced.

    I think dismount is far less of a worry when you compare it to things like the para/efield gank and the insane pots chugging templates that make players almost invincible among other things I won't even bother to mention.
     
  22. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,385
    Likes Received:
    0
    DEV stated ethy mounting timer is currently bugged and should be shortened to 3 seconds... this is still a long time.

    Another way to fix the zero skill ninja dismount tamers without putting too much restriction on the pet ball is to scale the summoning time with the animal control slot. Make it something like 0.5 second casting time (interruptable) per control slot, so it will be 0.5second to summon a horse and 2.5 second to summon a greater dragon. Get rid of the 15 second reuse time. This way the pack instinct pvm tamers wont get screwed up, while leaving pvp tamers unable to abuse the pet balls. So the pet summon ball basically works like a cast of spell, the bigger the pets are the longer the casting time.

    My proposed pet ball changes that wont screw up pvm tamers are.
    1. Pet Balls now have an interruptable casting time upon use. The casting time for each pet summoned is 0.5 second per control slot.
    2. There's no reuse timer for pet balls.
    3. Pet balls cannot be used while in animal form.
    4. Pet balls will incur a world visible summon emote and have 50% chance taking the summoner out of any hiding effect.


    IMO these changes will be effective while not crippling the pack instinct pvm tamers too much.
     
  23. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Lets face it, this thread isn't about dismount being unbalanced. Its just another I-get-owned-by-a-template-I-don't-play-so-nerf-them whine.
     
  24. Dismount is one of the most disliked parts of uo.

    A dismounted player in some pvp situations often means a dead player. Off course there are tricks to escape it, but its extremely effective and thats why its being used so much.

    Bolas:
    Bolas have been here for a long time, and still they require no skill to be used.
    Bolas are somewhat balanced due to the delay and message.

    Ways to counter Bola: When you see the bola message, you can jump off your live pet, wait for bola event to pass and then remount pet or you can run out out line of sight.

    Dismount from Heavy crossbow:
    This dismount shot will hit in less than one second (if no swing was made before), unlike the bola dismount mechanism. It will require at least 100 skill points to be effective. You have a chance to miss the shot while bola is 100%.

    Pet summon ball is/was one way to counter dismount. Once dismounted, you wait out the duration until you can remount then you use pet ball and mount up. This was very balanced imo.

    The new pet ball changes will make it nearly impossible to summon pet if dismounted. Instead of an interruptable Frozen Duration with delay, I would like to see a change were the pet will not listen to commands for 3 seconds after pet balled. But you will be able to remount it and run off if you like.

    Changes I would like to see to dismount in general:

    Bolas should not have 100% chance. it should be like 60-70% chance to hit.

    Heavy crossbow's - Dismount special move whould have a hit chance penalty like moving shot.
     
  25. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I personally think that instead of nerfing dismount, they should give us incentive to fight on foot. Reduce ALL damage generated by a player when that player is on a mount by 25% (and I do mean ALL damage... Weapon, spell, pets, explode pots).

    We would have to choose between being more mobile yet doing less damage, or doing full damage yet not being so mobile.

    Maybe it's time we all got off of our high horses...
    *rimshot*

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Splendid idea !!!
     
  26. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,299
    Likes Received:
    60
    <blockquote><hr>

    Make the specials on the heavy moving shot (very effective) and something else....maybe crush or concussion.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Concussion can be very devestating...
     
  27. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,299
    Likes Received:
    60
    You used not to be able to hop off screen to dodge a bola also...
     
  28. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Dismount is fine. With enhance potions, Wands, petals you have a good chance fo staying alive on foot.
     
  29. <blockquote><hr>

    Dismount is fine. With enhance potions, Wands, petals you have a good chance fo staying alive on foot.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

    i would like to see you to stay alive dismounted with a beatle or uber dragon on you
     
  30. Tomas_Bryce

    Tomas_Bryce Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,212
    Likes Received:
    3
    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Oh, hey, I don't think Leurocian mentioned - and I'm not at all sure QA has checked - but the ethereal casting time was bugged. It was intended to be three seconds, but wasn't getting called correctly, and Leurocian fixed that.

    [/ QUOTE ]Excellent news... still seems like it might be a bit long, though. Perhaps 2 sec?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Why not make it instant then there would be nothing to fear from dismount special?
     
  31. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,385
    Likes Received:
    0
    <blockquote><hr>



    Why not make it instant then there would be nothing to fear from dismount special?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Good idea. But then again I still beg you to differ your suggestion. I think that would piss off some hardcore pvpers that HAVE to dismount someone then goes into animal form then hit an UOA repeatly in order to compete... but oh well I adapted to the bugged 4 second ethy summoning time for years now I feel the "intended" 3 seconds would be a great buff. [​IMG]
     
  32. Who was that guy who pointed out that a casting delay on petballs would create a new imbalance with stealth/hide/dismount weeks ago?

    Somebody should have listened to him.

    [​IMG]
     
  33. Death Adder

    Death Adder Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Lets face it, this thread isn't about dismount being unbalanced. Its just another I-get-owned-by-a-template-I-don't-play-so-nerf-them whine.

    [/ QUOTE ]Please, I'm the paradigm of the "adapt and conquer" PvPer. I currently run Ninjitsu on 100% of my PvP templates precisely so that I have a viable and effective counter to Dismount.

    Dismount is simply one of those things that has always been unbalanced, greatly favoring gankers over solo players. IMO its unique status as a special of (usually) permanent duration is highly overpowered. If you have a rational (not ad hominem) argument against this assertion, I'd love to hear it.
     
  34. Death Adder

    Death Adder Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Dismount is fine. With enhance potions, Wands, petals you have a good chance fo staying alive on foot.

    [/ QUOTE ]A PvPer is at a tremendous disadvantage on foot even in a 1v1. It's a death sentence in any other combat situation. In other news, the sky is blue.

    What compels people to make such obviously ridiculous assertions? I can only suppose that they are gankers who so greatly value their auto-win option that they resort to intellectually dishonest means to defend it. It's obvious that solo PvPers are a dying breed, the rarest of modern PvPers, so I guess the gankers feel they can get their way simply by making false assertions. And why not? It's an approach that gets results, as the history of UO Dismount makes it clear that devs greatly favor gankers in this game (Dismount methods have been continually added and strengthened over the last 5 years).
     
  35. and yet everyone ignored my point that dismout as the bandaid for people being able to run forever. if you couldnt run forever dismounting wouldnt be needed to kill people
     
  36. Death Adder

    Death Adder Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    and yet everyone ignored my point that dismout as the bandaid for people being able to run forever. if you couldnt run forever dismounting wouldnt be needed to kill people

    [/ QUOTE ]Because your argument is only valid if it was impossible to kill people without Dismounting them. That's not at all true, as I and many other PvPers can attest.
     
  37. you are right my point was they broke stamina which used to slow people down so dismout was not needed

    the fix is get rid of dismount, bring back how running loses stamina in a manner that will prevent the runs from luna to umbra with no way to kill the person
     
  38. <blockquote><hr>

    has always been unbalanced, greatly favoring gankers over solo players.

    [/ QUOTE ]I'm sorry but that is the most amusing thing I've read today... God forbid, a gank has an advantage over a single person!
    lol.
    Heck, why not just have your DCI and resists go up 10% for every additional player targeting you while you're at it.
     
  39. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Of course what does need a total removal or heavy nerf is bolas. You need zero skill to use them and so they can be added to any gimp template like PvP tamers. They do exactly what the devs claim to hate: they replace skills with an item.

    They should have the same restriction as any other powerful weapon. They should require 90 weapons skill (UBWS), 90 tactics and 90 anatomy.
     
  40. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I'd say the only fix needed is to make dismount with a bow not a viable tactic. It's unfair and plain annoying.

    Everything else is fine.
     
  41. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Lol, often in PvP, I see someone dismounted who is moving faster than the mounted people around him.

    They need to fix the speedhacking first.
     
  42. Fluffi

    Fluffi Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,351
    Likes Received:
    15
    <blockquote><hr>

    Of course what does need a total removal or heavy nerf is bolas. You need zero skill to use them and so they can be added to any gimp template like PvP tamers. They do exactly what the devs claim to hate: they replace skills with an item.

    They should have the same restriction as any other powerful weapon. They should require 90 weapons skill (UBWS), 90 tactics and 90 anatomy.

    [/ QUOTE ]



    As you rightly state, bolas can be used with equal efficacy by any template.

    Surely that's as "balanced" as it's possible to get?

    Why did you not include the phrase "any gimp template like PvP tamers, or archers, or macers, or fencers, or swordsman, or mages, or necros" in your original post?


    I'm not trying to defend bola/all kill as a playstyle, but please hold-up a little on the tamer hate.
     
  43. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Why is it every time mages start dying to another class they start crying nerf them!Personally im sick of it i say nerf mages the para ganking Xfielding is getting old dismount is one of the few tools we have left against mages who run and cast.So if EA wants to nerf someone i say put mages under it. Im sick and tired of mages being the only ones that can pvp in this game its total [censored].
     
  44. <blockquote><hr>

    Oh, hey, I don't think Leurocian mentioned - and I'm not at all sure QA has checked - but the ethereal casting time was bugged. It was intended to be three seconds, but wasn't getting called correctly, and Leurocian fixed that.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Wow, this is actually a pretty significant change. It's necessary to see how this works out in the world of being dismounted (and being a dismounter).
     
  45. <blockquote><hr>

    I'd say the only fix needed is to make dismount with a bow not a viable tactic. It's unfair and plain annoying.

    Everything else is fine.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Dismounting is the only thing left for archers to do in field combat, it seems... I guess I'd have to delete my archer after all, and finally participate fully in Ultima Mages Online!

    Necro-mages and nox-mages and wrestle mages for the win, as they say.... beh.
     
  46. <blockquote><hr>

    Why is it every time mages start dying to another class they start crying nerf them!Personally im sick of it i say nerf mages the para ganking Xfielding is getting old dismount is one of the few tools we have left against mages who run and cast.So if EA wants to nerf someone i say put mages under it. Im sick and tired of mages being the only ones that can pvp in this game its total [censored].

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Some of my guildmates have several accounts and most of the char slots are occupied by various mage types...

    Years of playing UO and having the mages be the most versitile and powerful class has made for a gravitation off of dexers and onto mages for field pvp. Now, I think some people are stuck on the whole mages idea and don't care to see dexers' field usability improved.

    Some of them feel like it's 'easier' to play a dexer due to spell timing considerations and the large number of spells available to a mage, and therefore, it's their inherant right to have the class be unbalanced and more powerful when it's used correctly.

    Some of these same people start pancakes when you bring up the idea of expanding the weapon-switching capabilities of the dexers, enabling the dexers' choices of weapon specials to be much more broad, more like the mages have now. In a discussion in another thread about this, one evident mage-lover felt that weapon specials should be eliminated!

    The mage-loving people with a perspective like that will be hard-pressed to see things any other way - and especially when discussed on a message board that's populated by like minded peeps. It's only after it's been fixed and left that way a good while that it would start to be accepted.

    On a side note, my guild is about to make new rules for field fighters. Dexers are pretty much not going to be allowed, is my sense. It's going to be like, be on a red mage or, do something else with your time, I guess... something like that, have to see what they say officially.
     
  47. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    has always been unbalanced, greatly favoring gankers over solo players.

    [/ QUOTE ]I'm sorry but that is the most amusing thing I've read today... God forbid, a gank has an advantage over a single person!
    lol.
    Heck, why not just have your DCI and resists go up 10% for every additional player targeting you while you're at it.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    This
     
  48. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,442
    Likes Received:
    323
    I don't even see how the two of them are remotely related. Why do you need a pet summoning ball if you get dismounted? I mean, ostensibly, if you're a tamer, you're riding a powerful mount as it is -- otherwise, what's the point of being a tamer?

    The whole idea of dismounting someone is to get them off their mount so that they can be fought.

    I really don't see the problem here.
     
  49. Azmira Zalof

    Azmira Zalof Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Dismounting is the only thing left for archers to do in field combat, it seems... I guess I'd have to delete my archer after all, and finally participate fully in Ultima Mages Online!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    ROFL! You must be playing your archer wrong then, cus I'd say a moving shot disarm archer is one of the most powerful templates in game right now. Add 4/6 chiv and a balanced bow with EP and you have an archer that's a ***** to kill and has a pretty significant offense.


    And to Death Adder, I'm more than versed in killing people mounted. I'm merely stating that in today's realm of faster than average PvPer's, the dismount is necessary on some of them.
     
  50. <blockquote><hr>


    Dismounting is the only thing left for archers to do in field combat, it seems... I guess I'd have to delete my archer after all, and finally participate fully in Ultima Mages Online!


    [/ QUOTE ]

    ooook riiiiiight, im sure everyone on this board is going to agree that when they fight archers the only special move used against them is dismount dismount dismount

    yah right, cuz archers dont use concussion blow/AI/paralyze shot for the gank/moving shot over and over and over NO THEY ALL USE DISMOUNT AND IF YOU TAKE DISMOUNT AWAY OH NOES ARCHERS ARE DOOMED

    /endsarcasm

    when mages can do 40+ damage every 1.25 secs your nonsense posts wont be nonsense any more.