1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Time to re-think the 720.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Slayvite, Nov 18, 2015.

  1. Slayvite

    Slayvite Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,709
    Likes Received:
    350
    So I was just wondering with the recent "changes" and all...
    Is it time we changed the 720 skill cap to 800?
    Sort of mix things up a bit and give the majority chance to do some high end stuff too.
    Most of the time now it's impossible to get a group together to go hunt a boss mob (unless its the new ones) and those of us that don't own these Uber suits never really see that side of the game, are we even missing out?

    I just think upping the cap to 800 (plus jewellery) would make things rather more interesting for the general masses and not just that 5% UO seems to be about these days.

    Just a thought, discuss?
     
  2. OREOGL

    OREOGL Babbling Loonie
    Professional Campaign Patron

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2014
    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes Received:
    1,443
    Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
     
    Uvtha and Captn Norrington like this.
  3. R Traveler

    R Traveler Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2005
    Messages:
    2,949
    Likes Received:
    231
    Allow it on TC only.
     
  4. OREOGL

    OREOGL Babbling Loonie
    Professional Campaign Patron

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2014
    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes Received:
    1,443
    You want to imbalance the entire game?

    Then do this.
     
    Silentfury, Lord Gandalf and Merlin like this.
  5. Slayvite

    Slayvite Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,709
    Likes Received:
    350
    Wait, there's balance in the game now???? :coco:
     
    Endrik, Kayhynn and MalagAste like this.
  6. OREOGL

    OREOGL Babbling Loonie
    Professional Campaign Patron

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2014
    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes Received:
    1,443
    Clearly it makes more sense to make it more imbalanced then...

    Your logic is invalid.
     
  7. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
    Moderator Professional Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Messages:
    10,683
    Likes Received:
    8,766
    The game has been perfectly fine at 720 for more than a decade, there is absolutely no reason to completely screw with game mechanics like this. There is so much risk and very little reward associated with this idea. This change would severely mess with the games balance for a very long time. Not to mention the hundreds of hours of the dev teams time something like this would take, which would distract them from more important projects like fixing the account management site and things like that.
     
    Kirthag, Riyana, Uvtha and 4 others like this.
  8. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran Britain [BRIT]

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Messages:
    2,391
    Likes Received:
    3,202
    The only thing I'd be interested in seeing the devs explore is the idea of secondary and tertiary skills "weighing" less against the cap. The idea was floated around 2005/2006ish.

    Or making some of the more RP skills weigh nothing, such as Item ID, Taste ID, Forensics, Herding, Begging.
     
  9. Slayvite

    Slayvite Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,709
    Likes Received:
    350
    I think something has to give...UO is so empty these days, even on Europa it's hard to get a group together. A lot of people just milling around since they cannot go 'solo a champ spawn' or something.
    I guess it's just because I'm playing Fallout 4 at the moment that I'm having a real problem justifying my return to UO to myself.

    Perhaps the Dev's should realise that without a HUGE cash investment to overhaul everything to todays standards they will not attract that 'mystical audience' they keep going for.
    Instead they should put more effort into giving those of us that are still here a real reason to play UO, not just because we have sank so much money into it over the years that we cant hit the "delete" button.
     
  10. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,782
    Likes Received:
    2,289
    How does this imbalance UO if everybody has it? Was UO imbalanced when we had 7xGMs, NO it was not. When they first came out with PS they should have raised the cap to 840 and been done with it. A 7x Legendary is no different than a 7x GM was back in the day.
     
  11. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,782
    Likes Received:
    2,289
    Please explain how it would take hundreds of hours of the dev teams time to do this. Are they rewriting everything or are they adjusting our skill cap just like they adjusted our stat cap so many years ago. We are talking about changing one cell in a data base.
     
  12. OREOGL

    OREOGL Babbling Loonie
    Professional Campaign Patron

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2014
    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes Received:
    1,443
    If you have to ask then you shouldn't bother posting an opinion.
     
    Uvtha and cazador like this.
  13. TimberWolf

    TimberWolf Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    2,644
    Likes Received:
    1,067
    Why stop at 800 lets go 1200???

    Then a could have my tamer/bard/mage/sampire all in one and save money on fragments :)
     
    Merlin, whitesmith and drcossack like this.
  14. Slayvite

    Slayvite Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,709
    Likes Received:
    350
    I should add that I'm not interested in the slightest if this unbalances PvP.
    The easy answer to that is keep Siege at 720 and go there if you want to PvP.
    About time they stopped pampering to the 2% population that actually PvP........and no I don't mean group ganking kids.
     
    railshot likes this.
  15. OREOGL

    OREOGL Babbling Loonie
    Professional Campaign Patron

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2014
    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes Received:
    1,443

    Only furthering that this idea is worthless...
     
  16. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,763
    Likes Received:
    1,522
    Cell? Database? I didn't know UO was coded in Excel...when they adjusted the codes Years ago they basically rewrote 80% of the client. When they added 120 it was already coded in. I take it you forgot how extremely over powered things were and how long it took to need and balance most skills out didnt you? I'm all for bumping the hard cap up with the inclusion of a 125 power scroll but as Kryonix has already mentioned they mulled over the idea and was far too much coding and time for the result. You're talking about rewriting the game when you go down that road.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    OREOGL likes this.
  17. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,763
    Likes Received:
    1,522
    Wait what? Lol


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Uvtha and OREOGL like this.
  18. OREOGL

    OREOGL Babbling Loonie
    Professional Campaign Patron

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2014
    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes Received:
    1,443
    Yeah all that "pampering" we receive...

    I wasn't even going to address this, the guy is just spouting off drivel without spending anytime putting thought into the idea.
     
  19. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Reporter Professional Governor Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    Messages:
    18,957
    Likes Received:
    5,449
    You know if I posted something like this 5 people would have said "What? Can't solo a spawn?" "I solo everything in the game blah, blah, blah, ...... you can't solo everything then your not playing the game right and your gaming skills suck..... "

    But I agree with you... I can't solo a bunch of stuff... I can solo a few things ..... Styngian Dragon and such... but what's the point of playing an MMORPG if you are playing solo all the time??? May as well be playing a solo game...... Oh wait I do..... Been playing Diablo III more than UO.
     
    Duncan McDermott and Lord Frodo like this.
  20. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,782
    Likes Received:
    2,289
    LMAO Your opinion is dully noted and filed in the nearest trashcan where it belongs.
     
  21. Slayvite

    Slayvite Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,709
    Likes Received:
    350
    You know I did say "discuss" in my OP......guess you don't know what that means.
    The recent Chiv nerfs......sorry "10 year old bug corrections" certainly weren't for the benefit of PvM players...
     
    Lord Frodo likes this.
  22. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,782
    Likes Received:
    2,289
    Just like your opinion.
     
  23. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,782
    Likes Received:
    2,289
    You do understand that all the data is stored in what UO calls warehouses which is nothing more than a glorified database. Are you an insider that you know they rewrote %80 of the client because that was NEVER said.
     
  24. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,763
    Likes Received:
    1,522
    Data "storage" and server side coding are two different beasts..but I can already tell you have no clue what you're talking about...so we can end this at this. Let's save post counts for things you understand


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    OREOGL likes this.
  25. OREOGL

    OREOGL Babbling Loonie
    Professional Campaign Patron

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2014
    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes Received:
    1,443
    You are clueless aren't you?

    Changing code isn't a cut and paste job.
     
  26. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,782
    Likes Received:
    2,289
    LMAO Sure whatever you say because you know it all, NOT.
     
    cazador likes this.
  27. OREOGL

    OREOGL Babbling Loonie
    Professional Campaign Patron

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2014
    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes Received:
    1,443
    This doesn't account for the other drivel you are posting.
     
  28. OREOGL

    OREOGL Babbling Loonie
    Professional Campaign Patron

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2014
    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes Received:
    1,443
    Translated: I have nothing of substance to refute your argument.

    So I will simply post "you don't know...Because I said so."
     
    cazador likes this.
  29. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,782
    Likes Received:
    2,289
    @Slayvite understand the 2 oh my opinion is right because I am a UO GOD and know it all.
     
    Slayvite likes this.
  30. Zuckuss

    Zuckuss Order | Chaos
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni K^S

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,207
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Umm, guys? Will you please stop bickering back and forth. If you wanna do that, take it to a PM. Logical opinions are more than welcome here. Trolling one another is not gonna fly.
     
    Obsidian, Njjj, Riyana and 2 others like this.
  31. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 28, 2003
    Messages:
    3,589
    Likes Received:
    1,454
    Would be nice to have 7 maxed skills on our characters again like the game was originally set up for before powerscrolls got added making us need to go with only 6 maxed skills. provided you've played four years to have 720 instead of just 700 skill.
     
    Lord Frodo likes this.
  32. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,782
    Likes Received:
    2,289
    This is absolutely so funny because all you have done is posted nothing with any substance what so ever and the mister know it all is giving his opinion on how he thinks things work, guess what I worked with programs like UO that use massive databases to store things and you do not keep hard numbers in your main code you keep them in their respective database areas, UO choses to call them warehouses. We already know you will just come back with another stupid remark so don't bother.
     
    Angel of Sonoma likes this.
  33. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,763
    Likes Received:
    1,522
    Well they removed the cap increase, to balance it out for the.."younger accounts" but I so far don't like the idea of raising just the cap, we already have characters with 820 skills with items..imagine 900-1000..alchemy/deathstriker with bush healing..insanity! If anything 740 would be a decent compromise, except even the way skills are mapped out it literally changes nothing, so what's the point? Give me a template that already cannot be made by adding 20 points and then a valid reason why it should be other than its time, and you know that all they do is click into excel and type 740 instead of 720 and all is well lol. They've already wayyyy too overpowered antique legendary items which never ever should of hit the game. 60 skill rings :/ really?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  34. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran Britain [BRIT]

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Messages:
    2,391
    Likes Received:
    3,202
    Guys, don't make daddy pull the thread over...
     
    Riyana and Gameboy like this.
  35. OREOGL

    OREOGL Babbling Loonie
    Professional Campaign Patron

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2014
    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes Received:
    1,443
    You clearly have never coded anything.

    But keep going, it's funny.

    Edited: please inform us what programming you did in your extensive experience in the programs like UO.
     
  36. The Craftsman

    The Craftsman Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    676
    This.

    I posted this idea up years ago on the same premise. UO was built on being able to max out 7 skills, (a system that worked) raising the cap to 840 just resets this balance. The problem is sjill jewellery .. remove it from the game and raise the bar to 840.
     
    Angel of Sonoma and Lord Frodo like this.
  37. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,782
    Likes Received:
    2,289
    So I guess the US military arsenal supporting war gaming is nothing, yea right that is just a little teeny tiny amount of information. I guess if you use hard numbers in your coding that just gives you better job security so they have to call you to change anything.
     
  38. TimberWolf

    TimberWolf Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    2,644
    Likes Received:
    1,067
    playing the game solo isnt UO fault......it is your inability to play well with others and be part of a team. Within 3 days of returning (2 years ago) I had offers from 2 large active guilds and joined one. If I solo anything in game it is because I choose to to challenge myself. It isnt the games fault if someone cant make friends with others.
    Oh yes and I play on an underpopulated shard.

    If you dont have friends to play with I respectfully suggest the problem lies within your personality.....and no amount of recoding the game will solve that issue!
     
    Uvtha and drcossack like this.
  39. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    6,752
    Likes Received:
    3,543
    i dont think it would take "100s of hours" it seems like it would take just a change of a number (maybe 5mins?)

    There have been alot more drastic changes over the years. the jack-of all trades 20skill contributing to lmc bonus for a time, pub 46 with all kinds of special move changes which effectively killed off templates, requiring real skill for necro forms. I just dont seen the 80 skill points as a huge change. With the masteries now, even pvm templates are very tight because 100 or 110 is no longer "good enough" if you want to use the mastery, which means you have to take away from other skills.

    I think the poster has a valid point, however i think a better (albeit probably harder "fix") would be to alter the way skill increase on jewels works. We need these items in the game to be highly sought after, otherwise theres no reason to do content.

    Personally i would just make skill increase jewels work with the masteries, and function like real skill for the purposes of skills like tactics, and skills where skill increase does not have the same effect as real skill.
     
    BeaIank and Lord Frodo like this.
  40. Hill Top

    Hill Top Visitor

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    5
    I totally agree like the game is barely balanced as it is and if they mess with skill caps game would be very unbalanced :/
     
    OREOGL likes this.
  41. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,763
    Likes Received:
    1,522
    Dude the game was coded in probably 95-96. Your talking about an object oriented scripting language. Most likely Java,Python,C#. It wasn't written in anything modern by any means. They may have altered scripts to call on databases "warehouses" for ease of tracking. Like Vendor search,Transfer Tokens. Maybe even other things like Vet Rewards(which I doubt) but odds are its all functions which makes its a complete jumble of code, serials and all kinds of erroneous commented out garbage that had to be written and rewritten 30 times by 80 different devs over 18 years.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    OREOGL likes this.
  42. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    6,752
    Likes Received:
    3,543
    while i agree with you, they cant just go back and change what the games been based on for the last 15 years. items. the past 3 or 4 years of loot revamps have put UO in a decent place for "reasons to play" loot thats actually decent and something to search for. if the games developement had gone a different route, less item based, then yes a simple skill cap raise could open up alot of the templates that were destroyed early on. however the idea now is that you hunt for those skills on items, not just get them for free. if there was something else to do in the game, some other reason to play than hunt for items the cap could just be raised. but theres really not now. we all know UO is not the game currently that it was envisioned to be in the late 90s.
     
  43. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran Britain [BRIT]

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Messages:
    2,391
    Likes Received:
    3,202
    You can read about the programming of early UO here.
     
    Gameboy and Lord Frodo like this.
  44. OREOGL

    OREOGL Babbling Loonie
    Professional Campaign Patron

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2014
    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes Received:
    1,443
    And you did what again?
     
  45. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,782
    Likes Received:
    2,289
    OMG I retired in 93. lol
     
  46. Ossy

    Ossy Adventurer

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    37
    Part of me was disappointed when I returned to UO. Being so item and template driven reminded me of WoW and other MMOs. UO was always something different, that's why I kept coming back.

    I think the Devs need to work on bringing back UO's uniqueness.

    Just put the skill cap at 750 and a max of 800 with items. I don't think champs and such should ever be solo-able, but do understand that with the amount of active players the game has now, that's probably the only way to make that content doable on a regular basis.

    I spent a lot of time on free shards with no skill cap. That takes away some of the fun if everyone can just max out every skill and stat. You should be forced to make some sacrifices/decisions in building a character.

    I came back to UO because I didn't want to have to get the "right build" and the "right items" in order to play the game and have fun. I hated raiding and raid guilds in WoW.

    Just my two cents.
     
  47. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,763
    Likes Received:
    1,522
    Thanks that clarifies it perfectly..proves about 89% of my point then..like this too fro-do-do


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    OREOGL likes this.
  48. Deraj

    Deraj Sage
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    417
    I get where you're coming from, but champion spawns, peerless, and whatever else, shouldn't be solo-able. I mean, I can solo several types of peerless and champ spawns but I do not believe that I should be able to do that, and I do not believe that is balanced. If the problem is that we're having trouble getting a group together, then the question shouldn't be, "How can we make UO more like a single player game?", it should be, "How can UO better facilitate group play?"
     
    Njjj and CovenantX like this.
  49. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,782
    Likes Received:
    2,289
    REALLY multiple game servers that pointed at one persistence DB, and that did data mirroring across the boundaries.
     
  50. Duncan McDermott

    Duncan McDermott Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2015
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    132
    Maybe instead of increasing the cap to 800 they should just bring it back down to 700 and make being a GM worth it again. Increase our ability within 100 skill instead of having to have 120 to do what 100 use to do. I was against increasing the skill cap when it first came out and I am still against it. The game had plenty going for it as it was. We just went around in a circle to no better end.