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Time to remove PoF so we get some normal breakage of items again.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Guest, Feb 12, 2008.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hi there,

    in 1-2 week there will be so incredible many uber items made if current runic changes stays.

    I would say that my smith will almost by himself manage to put a deadly weapon in the hand of every pvp:er on shard of the braves.

    This means that in about 2 weeks it will be safe to declare all shards free of smiths and we will leave the nagging to someone else.

    REMOVE POF ! ! !

    We will not need it anyway.It will take very little work to get the runics needed
    to make new uber items after the breakage of the old ones.

    How about that?

    The ressurecetion of the brave smiths before we die even.


    Regards
    The Scandinavian
     
  2. Its powder of fortification that needs removing, losing insurance will only effect those that pvp, losing PoF will effect everyone as items will eventually break, this is how UO was designed, faucet and sink.
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Ă„hum,

    that was what I actually meant.

    [​IMG]

    I will edit thread.

    Regards
    The Scandinavian
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Hi there,

    in 1-2 week there will be so incredible many uber items made if current runic changes stays.

    I would say that my smith will almost by himself manage to put a deadly weapon in the hand of every pvp:er on shard of the braves.

    This means that in about 2 weeks it will be safe to declare all shards free of smiths and we will leave the nagging to someone else.

    REMOVE ITEM INSURANCE ! ! !

    We will not need insurance anyway.It will take very little work to get the runics needed
    to make uber items.

    How about that.

    The ressurecetion of the brave smiths before we die even.


    Regards
    The Scandinavian

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Sorry I disagree, specially after just now getting to a point in game where I now have Doom arties you want to remove insurance so I can lose it all if my cable crashes one night in game, [which has happen to me before] .
     
  5. Sign me up....My thoughts:

    1. remove pof
    2. Remove insurance
    3. dont tell me to goto Siege.. [​IMG]
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    overreact much?

    It's too bad there are a few honest bod collectors/users that will see their playstyle diminished but from what I've gathered just on the boards the majority are in favor of the new changes. Those who are not are the scripter and the few honest people.

    In game I know NO ONE who isn't favor of the upcoming changes. Of course, that is generally how it goes. I often dumbfound people in game when I tell them of opposition to new changes from the boards to nearly everything. The only time it was on equal footing was the BOS changes. Those were not liked pretty much everywhere.
     
  7. I am going to start responding to dumb threads with two words from now on:
    Siege Perilous.
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I have edit thread,sorry.

    To much metall banging I guess.
    [​IMG]

    Ofcourse I meant removal of PoF so we get some normal item breakage again.

    Insurance removal would be to much for now.


    Regards
    The Scandinavian
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Oki,

    as you have seen I have edit thread.
    I have no idea why I wrote isurance, in my head it was PoF all the time.



    Regards
    The Scandinavian
     
  10. This is an item based game. You should not lose your items in an item based game when death can be caused by nothing more than someone running into the local telephone pole and knocking the DSL or cable out. The most successful MMO to date doesn't even let you be looted or even take durability hits in PvP. That alone should tell you something. Death should be a minor setback, not a total loss requiring you to replace everything you have. The loss of a single piece of armor normally requires the entire suit, or at least a large portion of it be changed out, as the resists and mods are never the same on any 2 pieces.
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Funny that noone notice thread for 45 min.

    But after that hell brakes loose.

    Well oki,thats on me.

    Now its time to get back to the edited topic again.



    Regards
    The Scandinavian
     
  12. To me it does seem the runic changes are gearing towards an item break system that we had once and worked well.
    Boosting kits/runics could bring back the balance that we enjoyed prior to AoS with everyone able to possibly get fairly decent items to compete once again.

    This I hope is the direction the new team are gunning for, all the clues are there that it is, doom, now runics, lets have those champ spawns in ish giving out scrolls and were be halfway there.
     
  13. I disagree. It seems to me they're making the higher end things easier to get for new players. A player doesn't want to start playing a game, then find out it could literally take years before they're able to compete with existing players. A casual player doesn't want to spend months just to be able to start into the low side of high end PvM, and a PvP'r sure doesn't want to have to wait to start PvP'ing. All of these changes allow a player to obtain what he/she would need in a reasonable amount of time in order to be able to participate in the end game "stuff".
     
  14. Draken-Korin

    Draken-Korin Guest

    "nothing more than running into the local telephone pole*

    Nothing more than ? Oh the horror of it all, some family hits a telephone pole causing cable to go out, and you attatch your precious items of SOSARIA to that scenario?

    Only part of your post that makes any sense is:

    death can be caused by nothing more than someone running into the local telephone pole

    Find another example.
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    We already have some new things in the game that can't be powedered, and no one uses them because of that.

    Don't take away our POF, I happen to love mine, and I'd be really upset if we lost it. Some of my suits took years and lots of gold to put together. I don't want to eventually lose it during normal game play.
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I think these changes are great.

    It just total in youre faces to all those (bored) people that scripted cloth and horded kits and those that script everything else possible under the sun and are geared out to the hilt.

    I know it hurts the little guys as well but it totaly devalues all those uber leet idiots that have way more uber leet gear then the rest of us.

    Good Job EA/Mythic.
     
  17. Draken-Korin

    Draken-Korin Guest

    Great job by the Devs for this proposed idea of "moving in the direction" of righting so many wrongs done in this game over the years.

    Now just take away the "numbers on items" and replace it with ..... ummm I don't know say for example with armor: defense, guarding, hardening, fortification, and invulnerability. In addition to armor descriptions to the weapons as well, oh I don't know damn this is just off the top of my head *slight tone of sarcasam*: ruin, might, force, power, vanquishing.

    Then maybe you can include durability to each of those items using a simple system like durable, substantial, massive, fortified, and indestructible.

    I would imagine that the games crafters would be more useful with more wear and tear on these items, common sense says after each use they have taken a beating. When you fight difficult monsters, or mace wielding players, your armor has the chance to degrade at such a rate you might lose it if you don't watch it carefully, repairing it when needed. With that said repairs can be done, but with the risk of damaging the item further, to the point of even destroying it. But no worry because you can pay a visit to your favorite VENDOR, and at a cost you can stomach, replace said item.

    Oh, and maybe with all these things coming to be, and replacing items being nothing more than a trip to a vendor, we can get rid of insurance.

    *scratches head, a feeling of deja vu overcoming me*
     
  18. Doom arties are all like 50k now or something, and pretty soon uber runic crap will be everywhere. Screw it, I say go for it. Remove POF.

    Oh, but add more tokuno dye! I don't wanna look like a ****** again after I replace my armor!
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Ummm, nope - not complete removal. Try this ...

    Any item with durabiility has some ability to have PoF and repair deeds used on it. When these items cannot have PoF applied or a repair deed used, then a player crafter must repair it in order to **perhaps** reagin some of the ability.

    A player-repaired item will ALWAYS lose some of the points allowed for PoF/deed usage - eventually setting that value to zero. At that point the item decays through usage until it breaks ... thus requiring replacement.

    Is this "repair/enhance" value displayed? No ... it is only detectable via Arms Lore at 90 or better skill. Even then, AL may not immediately "read" the item, so multiple efforts would be needed.
     
  20. Babble

    Babble Guest

    Though I don't use runic items I still think it is too early to remove POF.

    Reason is, you still cannot craft what you want and you are dependent on the RNG. If they make it so you can chose the properties of which you craft then they really can remove POF.
     
  21. "Nothing more than ? Oh the horror of it all, some family hits a telephone pole causing cable to go out, and you attatch your precious items of SOSARIA to that scenario? "

    It was used as an example of something that could happen that is completely out of your control. Lighten up.



    "Only part of your post that makes any sense is:

    death can be caused by nothing more than someone running into the local telephone pole"

    First you complain about the statement, then say it's the only one that makes sense?

    I'm sorry, that makes no sense to me.
     
  22. Sam the Scribe

    Sam the Scribe Visitor

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    Ditto your post and adding a couple thoughts...

    Some armor/items come with pretty low durability to begin with and you need to fortify them just to make them useful. I dont want to have to spend gold on armor/weps and have to toss them after a week or so of fighting.

    I dont get to spend a lot of time in-game when I'm on the road and I would find having to spend more time doing repairs and shopping for new weps a complete waste of time. I've had to search pretty hard to get the right pieces for my characters armor... having to re-tool them every couple weeks to replace broken weapons and armor would take most of the fun out of the game. This game is for entertainment. Dropping POF would just cause more casual players to quit.

    Safe Travels, Sam
     
  23. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    The most successful MMO to date doesn't even let you be looted or even take durability hits in PvP.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Does that game have crafting as a primary skill or is it a secondary/after-thought kind of skill?

    I'm neither for nore against this idea. I'm not a power gamer, however. I haven't used PoFs a whole bunch. I wasn't hurt much by the BoS changes either.

    I'm not sure if removing PoF will really stimulate crafting. Artifacts come with 255 durability, crafted items rarely come with 200. People may just use Artifacts more, who knows.

    What might be a nice idea is to allow all items to only be PoFed however many times it would take to get the newly created item up to 255. Meaning when an item is created (crafted or spawned(like loot)) the Durability at that point is subtracted from 255, then divided by 10(round up to whole number) to get the "max number of PoF uses before saturation" of that item. The Item will allow that many uses of PoF before becoming permantly saturated. Thus Artifacts will be created "saturated".

    Ex. Item crafted/spawned(created) with 179 Durability: (255-179) / 10 --&gt; 76 / 10 --&gt; 7.6 --&gt; round up to 8 --&gt; "8 PoF uses before Saturation".

    Just an Idea
     
  24. "Does that game have crafting as a primary skill or is it a secondary/after-thought kind of skill?"

    That would all depend on the player. They could either use the fighting skills to obtain the raw materials and spend most of their time crafting, or they could simply use their crafted items to support their fighting skills. It would all depend on what they want to spend most of their time doing.
     
  25. angelus aconitum

    angelus aconitum Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    Yes, I'm for getting rid of Powder of Fortification completely !

    Maybe the powder should do something different like adding a slayer property to a weapon or a special defense bonus for armour against some specific monsters.

    Or the powder could add a skill gaining bonus to weapons and shields. If you enhance a weapon with the powder it will get a tag called [training weapon] which helps to train skills in a certain level. Higher powder could add the bonus for skill gains between 100 and 120 skill points ...... just a thought [​IMG]
     
  26. Setnaffa

    Setnaffa Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

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    I like PoF's.

    I do believe they should only be useable on Crafted or looted items...not arties. My reason? High-end Crafted and looted stuff is unique and it will remain unique even after this change. I have some weapons I would never want to lose due to being worn out. But a Blade of Insanity is a Blade of Insanity. You lose one, go buy another one. That would also give us reason to go down to DOOM or Ilshenar more often.
     
  27. PoF is about the only thing one gets from Smith BOD that has a use.
     
  28. DrDolittle

    DrDolittle Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    Only if UO is upgraded back to pre-AoS and pre-PowerScroll days. [​IMG]
     
  29. Draken-Korin

    Draken-Korin Guest

    If you fail to understand that I extracted a portion of your post, and tried to highlight it, as the only part that made sense,

    death can be caused by nothing more than someone running into the local telephone pole"

    then no, I'm sorry for you.

    There is no need for me to "lighten up". I was just pointing out that if you lost your gm crafted items in a video game, that were easily replaceable as they had been pre-aos, your feelings would'nt be so hurt.

    Thats the point that people with a solid grasp of what made this game great are trying to say. Make the ITEMS disposable, not the PEOPLE.
     
  30. Fluffi

    Fluffi Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    RTL.

    The problem with a future removal of PoF is that there's already vast amounts of it ingame.

    Anyone who currently has an outstanding piece of kit is quite able to PoF it up to 225 durability.
    This item is going to last a lot longer than a newly-created runic piece which has fabulous mods, but only 40 durability. So, anyone who hasn't already PoF'd their kit is going to be at a disadvantage.

    Whether it's a good thing or not, UO has become an item-based game, and it seems a bit strange to start implementing non-preventable item breakage until any "items" are freely replacable.
    The proposed changes to the runic system will not permit me to "just burn a few low-end runics" to replicate suits and weapons.


    Keep PoF.
     
  31. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Though I don't use runic items I still think it is too early to remove POF.

    Reason is, you still cannot craft what you want and you are dependent on the RNG. If they make it so you can chose the properties of which you craft then they really can remove POF.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    /agree

    You'd think this would be obvious to everyone but I guess nostalgia blinds.
     
  32. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Here's 2 novel concepts for you.

    Noone is forcing you to use POF
    Noone is forcing you to use insurance

    If you don't like them, don't use them.
     
  33. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Well,

    this was a try to keep the use of smiths in game.It was the best I could come up with in short notice.

    If item will break even after a long while maybe smiths still will have a palce in UO.

    If nothing ever breaks and it will be easy to make uber items, smiths will simply have no place in uo.It seems like the most people like the new runic rules so who am I to say that everyone is wrong.

    I wanted however make sure that the mind of a "true hard core in heart until I die" smith is spoken before the current changes published on Origin go lives on every shards and the battle for smiths is over.

    I guess Theo and I will be the only ones that will be sad.

    I guess we will have 1-2 very fun smith weeks until its over.



    Regards
    The Scandinavian
     
  34. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    If you fail to understand that I extracted a portion of your post, and tried to highlight it, as the only part that made sense,

    death can be caused by nothing more than someone running into the local telephone pole"

    then no, I'm sorry for you.

    There is no need for me to "lighten up". I was just pointing out that if you lost your gm crafted items in a video game, that were easily replaceable as they had been pre-aos, your feelings would'nt be so hurt.

    Thats the point that people with a solid grasp of what made this game great are trying to say. Make the ITEMS disposable, not the PEOPLE.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Way to take something completely out of contex and make an ass out of yourself.

    All he was trying to say was a simple power outtage could cause a lot of in-game time to become useless. That would be the game in the here and now. You know, the game that we are playing. Not the one you think we should be playing.
     
  35. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Wow,

    you mean that I can save the entire profession of brave Blacksmiths just by little me stop using PoF?

    You are indeed brilliant.


    Regards
    The Scandinavian
     
  36. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Yeah, then you can buy from them, stop trying to mess up other peoples play.
     
  37. I like PoF... I like working toward building the suit you want and keeping it until you can upgrade it.

    I think removing PoF would be a bad idea.
     
  38. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Here's 2 novel concepts for you.

    Noone is forcing you to use POF
    Noone is forcing you to use insurance

    If you don't like them, don't use them.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Not that easy.
    The problem is, that the crafters customers do use POF and insurance so they won't come back next week and buy a new suit to replace the one they lost.

    Before AoS I could sell several weapons and suits of armor to same customer each week.
     
  39. Guest

    Guest Guest

    In a very short while you will get better armor pieces than you thought were possible,and thats from just a horned kit that you buy as low as 150k.

    You think 70 resist,20 lrc and MR2 is any good?
    That you can get from a horned kit very soon.



    Regards
    The Scandinavian
     
  40. Draken-Korin

    Draken-Korin Guest

    out of contex? Amazing how you make the claim of me being an ass while you go and make up words. Its "out of CONTEXT".

    It seems pointless to try to explain why this world is dying and on life support, the majority of people here are clueless as to what made this game ONCE great.



    SPOILER: It was community, and the way Sosaria is set up today leaves no room for that. Only your "precious" items. It's not about how I took his post. It was me making a remark on his greed for items (however he tries to spin it), and no care for COMMUNITY, not his fabricated tale of telephone poles and cable/dsl.

    There was a reason Tolkien wrote LOTR with Golum calling the ring his "precious", search for the definition I'm sure you'd be enlightened.
     
  41. *sighs*

    Getting tired of repeating this.

    <center> Why I believe it to be a stupid idea to remove Powder of Fortification. </center>

    1. While UO has always been an item-based game to one degree or another, it has been moreso since Age of Shadows. In UO as it currently stands, permanently losing an item (be it through lack of insurance or through item decay of some kind) is tantamount to permanently losing a skill.

    2. The people who will benefit most from such a change are those in the larger, red-dominated, PvP- or champ-oriented guilds. They can collectively insure corpses aren't looted all that often. When things are looted, they can replace things by pooling resources. They already have enough advantages.

    3. Such a change would remove an important source of income for smiths. On LS, depending on market conditions, PoF goes for anywhere from 80k to 170k a pop.

    4. Such a change will benefit people who are willing to script or otherwise afk automate crafting. How is this? Because only they will be able to keep up with the constant demand for new and different items such a system will create. Don't they already have enough advantages? While I think the extent of scripting is exaggerated, I do think that it's an issue. Enough of one that we should not be further encouraging it.

    5. One of the biggest complaints (in my circle anyway) when AoS came out was that the most important skill in the game was now getting dressed. After years and years of navigating this item-based system, many of us finally have suits that are worth the time of day, nad that we are attached to. You who want to eliminate either insurance, or PoF, or both clearly want to revisit those days of yore, when you'd spend 30 minutes looking for stuff to wear and then 10 minutes actually fighting.

    6. Finally, there's sentiment. Galen is very attached to his default weapon: A Blade of Insanity engraved by his in-game wife to say Himsanye. This is the elf word for "to follow the law." Making this change either forces me and Galen to not use his, and my, favorite weapon, or forces us with the possibility of one day losing it entirely. I can think of only a handful of instances in fantasy literature where breaking a named weapon was even an issue, and in those instances it was a major plot point. (Such as the "broken sword" in Lord of the Rings, or the part of Taran Wanderer wherein Taran learns that how good the blade works is a lot less important than how well the blade can withstand other blades.) I am not saying that all of our UO characters are epic heroes, or should be, or should even try to be. But....I think $12.99 a month at least buys us the ability to hold an engraved weapon aloft and say: "This is [insert weapon name here]. Through it, feel my wrath."

    Will I leave if PoF is removed? No.

    -Galen's player
     
  42. Yewish News

    Yewish News Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    The most successful MMO to date doesn't even let you be looted or even take durability hits in PvP. That alone should tell you something.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It tells me that you have no analytical skills whatsoever and your logic is as flawed as a chocolate fireguard.

    People do not play WoW because you can't lose items during gameplay, they play it because it's a popular brand with a strong global following.

    Ultima Online should not be seeking to imitate WoW anyway, that area of the market is saturated and is UO will always be the poor cousin there. It should focus on creating a WORLD with more realism - just like when it was first released.
     
  43. dhekke

    dhekke Guest

    This discussion is the proof that the biggest mistake ever made in this game was making it item-based...

    WoW works as an item based game because it was built around this principle...
    UO wasn't. It was skill based. Now it's a drag-queen
     
  44. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Why would you think i have anything against what you are saying?

    Im trying to save the profession of smiths because I like being a smith.
    Its no difference from any other guy that makes his voice heard whatever the subject is.

    Im not saying that items should break in a certain amount of time.

    Devs could set all existing and new items to a fixed durability that makes the item last long enough for everyone to be happy.Its just away to make sure that items leave the game even if it take some time.

    Im sure we can come up with other items for rewards instead of PoFs.


    And if you are speking of old times ,it took less time to get ready after death than it takes now.


    Regards
    The Scandinavian
     
  45. Draken-Korin

    Draken-Korin Guest

    I am glad there are other people out there that see it this way. It shocks me people use the arguement of, "Well WOW does it like this WOW does it like that".

    Well there is another market out there that craves what UO once offered, and still could, with some work. Check Lineage out and its graphics, then look at Lineage II and what it offers, something strikingly similiar there (please dont tell me to play Lineage* I'd rather not). Lineage seemed to improve on graphics and gameplay, its a game that is more designed as empire building and conflict. Oh and did i mention its subs? 3 million&gt;

    UO can be all that, and more, just focus on WHAT MAKES IT DIFFERENT.

    EA/DEV team, build upon what sets you apart.
     
  46. This area will NEVER get fixed , wanna know why?


    Players are not willing there super UBER items , that shouldnt have been made so powerful in the first place..
     
  47. <blockquote><hr>


    Why would you think i have anything against what you are saying?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Umm....Perhaps because we're on opposite sides of the issue?

    If you agree with me, then why aren't you stating my own case instead of yours?
    <blockquote><hr>


    And if you are speking of old times ,it took less time to get ready after death than it takes now.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    *sighs*

    I was very clearly talking about immediately after AoS. BEFORE AoS, yes it took WAY less time to get ready.

    After AoS, took a lot longer.

    Now, after many years, I finally have a suit worth the time of day, and it takes hardly any time at all to get ready in most cases.

    If you have your way, we will be stuck in the immediate post-AoS era permanently.

    <blockquote><hr>

    Devs could set all existing and new items to a fixed durability that makes the item last long enough for everyone to be happy.Its just away to make sure that items leave the game even if it take some time.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    To disagree with my argument is fine....But I fear you may not understand it for some reason. Because if you did, you'd see that those statements are, within the terms of my argument, contradictions.

    -Galen's player
     
  48. <blockquote><hr>

    This area will NEVER get fixed , wanna know why?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Because this is not a "fix," it is a policy change.

    Calling it a "fix" is just a political thing, a way of defining the terms of the debate.

    Here's another example of what you're doing.

    <blockquote><hr>

    As many of our players know, there is a special move on certain weapons called Armor Ignore. We did some checking, and basically this special move seems to "ignore" the target's resistance for whatever damage is on the weapon! So soon we'll be fixing this by making the Armor Ignore special move Reduce, rather than Ignore, the resist of the target. We'll be keeping the original name, however, because this is really just a fix, not a change. This fix will be in the next publish.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Here's another one.

    <blockquote><hr>

    As many of you know, there is a spell in the game called Corp Por. We did some checking, and it seems as though this spells shoots a bolt of energy at the spellcaster's target. This bolt even causes damage. This is being fixed by removing the damage calculation from the spell, thus making it cause no damage. This fix will be in the next publish.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    See?

    Those are not fixes, and nor would be removing PoF. All 3 examples would be policy changes.

    -Galen's player
     
  49. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Well,

    Im trying to save the smiths you are trying to save your items.

    If smiths are saved by removing PoF or in other way doesnt matter to me,as long as the profession of smiths is saved.With that said ,we can continue to talk about PoF removal.

    You are talking like the removal of PoF will make all items break in short time,they will not.
    Would it be so strange to use more than one weapon or more than one suit?
    To keep your items from break to soon I mean.
    I like armor and weapons and use different items all the time.

    We will not end up in post AoS era because we dont start from zero this time.
    Most suits today is based on a few arties and a few crafter made items.
    Artie is easy to replace if broken because of the current DOOM flood of arties.

    2-3 items in a suit is crafted.To make new item to match the gap from one part that is broken will not be hard.
    Before it was impossible but after the changes it will be easy.

    As you might have noticed my language of birth its not english,this makes it harder for me to debate with you.Its much harder because I have to think some extra for every word I say because others jump me if I use wrong word or whatever.

    If you want we can continue to debate in a Scandinavian language instead.
    You can choose there are actually 3 to choose from.


    Regards
    The Scandinavian
     
  50. Belmarduk

    Belmarduk Guest

    Remove pof
    Remove insurance