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time to Revamp runic hammers?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Hell's Ironworks, Jun 17, 2011.

  1. Hell's Ironworks

    Hell's Ironworks Seasoned Veteran
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    I love burning runics, i love it so much i still dont have an imbuer. Id say 90% of my armor & weps comes from them, and 100% of my bows . I love the gamble , the exitement that the rare perfect piece brings along. So, in order to balance the runics with imbuing a little, id really like it if we could give them a nice boost in mods intensity.

    or

    Take the following mods off the dice roll :

    hit dispel
    lower requirements
    useless slayers

    I would add a few more but ill be reasonable.

    Oh and enable luck only when using gold ingots.


    ty
     
  2. My revamp idea: Allow runics to be used to enhance already imbued items over the intensity cap.

    For example, using a runic hammer to enhance an imbued sword would boost the intensity of some or all of its existing properties. Maybe randomize it so a valorite hammer, for example, would randomly distribute 20% between all properties; lower end runics would add fewer points, of course.

    It would make for some powerful items, but would make runics much more useful in the age of imbuing.
     
  3. Ganesh89

    Ganesh89 Journeyman
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    What I like to see is beeing able to make a choice, like making a mage weapon or a pure dexer weapon, i.e. make 2 groups:

    Faster casting
    Mage weapon
    Spellchan.
    Faster Casting -1
    Hit Dispel etc.
    Hit Spell

    and

    SSI
    leeches
    durability
    Slayers

    Damage and luck would apply to both groups....

    Whithin the the groups it still rolls the dice, to keep things interesting and not throw of the balance.
     
  4. Perhaps be able to pick the mods your looking for and just let the game roll the intensities based on the type hammer.
    It is a little lopsided in the fact that you can really really get some lame items compared to imbuing, yet when that kickin one comes along you tend to forget about the other 25 you threw away!!

    What Id like to see is the ability to pick and choose the specials you want. There are some weps that just fit my characters "look" yet the specials are just awful!!
     
  5. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    nope!

    only people who had high end runics were the ones who either produced dupes or bought dupes... don't bother crying about your innocence to me.. I'm a bod collector too, and in 6 years I've never gotten the right bods for valorite hammers.. lets alone the 20 or so you see on vendors..

    .... imbuing balanced that perfectly. let the runics stay where they are. Low end runics and imbuing are perfect matches, as well as being within *legal* reach of every player.
     
  6. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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    This is the way to go! Runics got seriously screwd with the introduction of imbuing. Runics should be a menu system exactly like the imbueing menu where you can choose the properties and the intensities become random based on the type of runic hammer.


    Sorry but your dead wrong. High end runics are completely worthless. Low end runic still have some value and are useful for creating elemental weapons.

    There is no way an imbuer should be able to make a weapon better than what is crafted by a Legendary Blacksmith with a Verite or Valorite Hammer. An agapite hammer maybe…Verite or Valorite …hell no.

    The purpose of imbuing was to give ALL players the opportunity for high level gear and equipment. Mission Accomplished.

    Blacksmiths, Fletchers, Tailors and Carpenters got screwd. Runics created a lot of FUN and excitement. “Look what I made!”…those days are gone and need to be brought back.

    Also the default exceptional Damage Increase needs to be removed all together or made optional.
     
  7. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    The only way I can see allowing people to pick their own mods, is if they had to use up the SAME resources (except maybe the unraveled ones) and had a chance of failing.
     
  8. Well ... while you are at "modding" one runic class ...
    might as well look towards modding ALL runics WITH enhancing

    and (re)create a "crafting system" ...

    All crafting contains two base aspects to their "product"
    Utility(what used for) & Style (appearence) ...

    pull dragon scales back into the loop ...
    big fresh scales for utility purposes ...
    bust and polish the pieces and waallaah! >sequins< for the tailors ... *shrugs*

    Do tinks have runic screwdrivers?
    Do alchemists have runic vases/crucibles ... old bloodwood casks for aging/preserving their potions?
    Have any carpenters built as much as a dingy/raft? a carved Door? a two wheeled cart?

    Musicians/bards ... what are the ratings?
    Any Stradivarius class violins about?
    Art the arts anywhere IN Britannia? symphony and opera and ballet and such?
    Can a lonely ranger get a square dance?

    the foundational concept objects are laying about
    sticks, stones and "string"
    (which was "used first"? a stick a stone or a "string"?)
    which ever *shrugs*
    from those we found
    ramp, lever, wheel ...
    and with/while those were being fiddled with
    oooooo >magic<
    ya just >wish< something and it happens

    Just saying ...
    keep wishing ...
    might want to have a Goal in mind
    Kinda like a "plan"
    "Better" plans usually have a thought about
    unintended consequences (aka "planB")
    Just saying ...
    careful whatcha wish for
    might not be whatcha want ........... :danceb: yw
     
  9. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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    Disagree...that's the whole purpose of having a runic hammer in that it is a magical crafting hammer. Possibility of failing has always been the case. The need for ingredients just like Imbuing makes no sense after all...it's a runic hammer.

    Also a Runic Tinker tool would be nice as well Fayled Dhreams..good idea and long overdue. I wouldn't mind crafting some runic hatchets.
     
  10. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    It's the magic that is random, if you want to pick what gets on it, it shouldn't be free.

    In Imbueing, the unraveled materials (magical residue, enchanted essence and relic fragments) provide the magic for the effect. The other materials used in imbueing direct that magic, give it purpose.

    In crafting, runics are like the unraveled materials. Since there is nothing there to guide the magic, the effects are random. In order to predict or control such effects, you need something to direct that magic.

    As for failing, I have NEVER failed when crafting something with a runic hammer.
     
  11. popps

    popps Always Present
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    NO THANK YOU........

    Not at least until it will be possible to script Bulk Order Deeds.

    There is NO GOOD REASON WHATSOEVER, IMHO, to give more power to runics until scripters will have it a walk in the park to get them a go go.

    First make it IMPOSSIBLE to script Bulk Order Deeds and only AFTER, make them more powerfull.

    So, for the time being since it is (unfortunately) possible to script BODs, thank you but a big, fat NO
     
  12. *cranks through decoder ring* .... ding!

    That would be a YES for system overhaul, thank you for your support :thumbsup:

    Current standings:
    loot tables: in progress
    Spawners: pending
    Crafting system: planning proposals in review

    :danceb:
     
  13. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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    Popps your living in dream land. You want changes that are never going to happen and if in fact were to be put into effect would probably be the death blow for UO.

    Go look at some of the scripting sites and see how many NEW players are joining those sites daily. I've seen more and more players realize that scripting is not a bad thing but actually enhances game play in ways never imagined.

    Popps obviously you don't realize the amounts of subscriptions UO would lose if scripting were stopped dead in it's tracks. It would be a very large percentage and probably put UO in the red.

    Sorry to bring up this stupid subject but every time someone posts a good idea Popps jumps in with his "Scripting Blah Blah Blah" BS. Popps is a broken record here on stratics...

    You could equate Popps string "crazy" theories to virtually anything in the game because at this point scripts have progressed to the point where they can do anything in the game. So let's just stop doing anything to improve the game or make it better because it will just be scripted by the scripters. Right? Let's not do anything anymore!

    Runics need an overhaul to make craftes worthwhile once again.

    This is a good idea and is worthy of attention.:popcorn:
     
  14. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Let me see if I understood it correct........

    Are you perhaps saying that there IS a "work in progress......." to make scripting impossible in UO ? If so, do you also have an E.T.A. (Estimated Time of Arrival....) for such a dream to come true ?

    You know, I am asking because I STILL remember some "spreadsheet" that became famous now over a year ago and YET, I still see scripting going quite fine in the game........

    I will only believe it when I will see it, at this point (no more scripting in UO, that is.....). I have been waiting and dreaming a cheat free UO for way too many years now to be content with "work in progress" talking......

    When I see it as REAL, I will believe it, at this point.
     
  15. popps

    popps Always Present
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    It is all about policies and being CONSISTANT with one's own policy.

    The policy that states scripting illegal in UO is no longer a valid policy ?

    Then CHANGE THE DAMN POLICY AND MAKE IT LEGAL FOR ALL PLAYERS TO SCRIPT.

    I'd personally prefer no scripting in the game but I would also be fine with scripting be allowed and legal that I even go as far as wishing, if scripting was to be made legal, that the official clients of UO have scripts for all tastes and flavours be offered WITHIN the clients.

    That is, no need for players to resort to third parties or elsewhere but have the official clients offer all that players could have asked or desired as far as scripting in UO.

    But "IF" the policy (as I hope) stays that scripting IS illegal in UO, then, this contradiction needs to stop once and for all.

    It is illegal ? Then STOP it for good and ban the players scripting.

    I find it intolerable that officially it stays illegal but then NOT MUCH happens to scripting.

    Over the years I met lots of players who left UO in disgust because of the rampant cheating that was in it and because hardly anything done was succesfull to oppose it.

    Perhaps, finally making UO a cheat free game would get a good number of players to come back to it ?

    There is quite a few players who DO NOT enjoy playing the same game where other fellow players can cheat a go go without much happening to stop it.......

    Good idea ?

    Scripting IS a win button.

    Making runics more powerfull means handing them out FOR FREE and in HIGH NUMBERS to scripters. You may see this as a good idea but I do NOT and CANNOT.

    As long as there is scripting in UO which makes it a walk in the park and WITH HARDLY ANY EFFORT to get high end items in the game, I happen to think that it is a VERY BAD IDEA to make these scriptable items even more powerfull......

    I have a better idea, let's STOP CHEATS in the game for good and have finally a game were people can play it WITHOUT the worry that their fellow player is getting the upper hand because of cheats, scripts or hacks......

    How about THIS for an idea ?

    Not at all, this is a very BAD idea, IMHO, as long as scripting can still make Bulk Order Deeds a joke for those scripting them........

    Besides, by now scripters probably have TONS of high end BODs already stocked up in BOD books so, even if scripting them was to be stopped, I would never EVER allow existing BODs to grant new, more powerfull rewards but I would introduce NEW BODs and only these new BODs would provide access to the new, more powerfull rewards.

    So, stop BODs being scriptable as first move, and then as second move introduce new BODs which will be the ONLY ONEs capable of granting access to the new, more powerfull rewards.

    Only in this way it will be possible to make sure that ALL PLAYERS will be on an equal footing as far as their access to the new, more powerfull rewards.
    Anything else not considering these changes would just give more power to scripters as if they even needed it.........

    Scripters really do not need any more help, I think.

    No thanks. No change to runics untill something is done about the rampant scripting.
     
  16. Let me see if I understood it correct.. no, you did not. /simple

    popps :talktothehand: >settle<

    one question at a time
    there is plenty of time and internet for each one

    loot tables are in progress
    Supreem indicated that the "concept" of "loot tables"
    has risen to a level of awareness >>as a problem<<
    that may be addressed
    in some systematic manner
    at some future date (yet to be determined and/or applicable feasibility thereof; pending video conference scheduling allowing same)

    which (as small and minor as it may be) IS progress
    re: answering the question: Does the "team" realize that "loot tables" (game wide) ARE due an overhaul.

    *shrugs* they MAY HAVE been inebriated/incapacitated during the Video, and forgotten what was said(the very next day! even!)
    but since they >did not< *repeat* >did not< "promise anything and/or time/dead _ Line" AND
    we have transcripts laboriously transcribed and archived and available for viewing ...
    >I< at least intend to HOLD THEM to that
    whatever that may turn out TO BE ... I shall !!

    By the rusty metal that hold the signs of Burma Shave that still Stand

    I SWEAR IT !! I shall !!

    BURMA SHAVE !!! :danceb:
     
  17. Not sure what "resources" ya mean, but if your insinuating a "use" of a resource or three to be able to choose a mod, sounds alright to me.
    Werent expecting any sort of "free" thing.
     
  18. No randomness to specials....one chooses to make the wep with the mod attached.
    Im just sayin, perhaps I like bleed special, why does it HAVE to be a stupid looking warfork.....why cant my swordskilled hatchetman have bleed on his hatchet?
     
  19. Hell's Ironworks

    Hell's Ironworks Seasoned Veteran
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    Some folks need to stop acting like right wing nuts chasing commies.

    I dont do bods, i buy all my runics with my hard earnt non-scrpit gold. I could easily script, i have a bunch of friends that offered some but i never did because it would ruin the game for ME. I have no point of playing if i have everything that i can have in this game, no goal...

    SO , to get back on the subject, i dont want to be able to choose my mods, i just want an increased chance on hitting the good mods by removing some useless ones that you would never even craft as an imbuer. I still want the gamble, but with better odds, thats it.
     
  20. They would be "nuts" IF there were not any commies to chase ...
    there are plenty of them ... stick to runics.

    IF you'll agree to ALL of the crafting system needing an overhaul(including enhancing/imbueing) as above ...
    (goes from singular concerns to global refinement)
    Your (essentially) removing of some mods for ONLY an increase of Chance in mods remaining ...

    is reasonable and supportable.
     
  21. Hell's Ironworks

    Hell's Ironworks Seasoned Veteran
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    Seeing them everywhere is a lil nutty yes. Adding the scripter argument in every debate is futile. Lets talk about scripters in the scripters threads...

    Glad we agree, tis all im asking .
     
  22. popps

    popps Always Present
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    As I see it, I do not see how it can be possible to talk about one issue without necessarily talk also about the other since the 2 issues are closely related to each other.

    I mean, we are discussing about a design change that would make some items in the game more powerfull. These items (runics), appear, as it is now, to be highly scriptable and, infact, they are extremely hard to get when not scripting while they become a walk in the park to get, when scripting.......

    Therefore, I think, how would it ever be possible to discuss a design change that would make them more usefull without necessarily also looking at the implications of them being so much scriptable ??

    I do not see it possible to separate the 2 issues.

    This is why I think that cheating in multi player games makes their design and balancing a nightmare. Because a design change which might make a lot of sense in a game with no cheating becomes screwed up when we factor in cheating.

    For example, let's take PvP and hacks. From a design point of view it might make sense to introduce for sake of PvP balancing, dismounting, different speeds when mounted or on foot and all that. Then comes speed hacks which screw up all that balancing design.......

    What I am trying to say is that I do not think that we can discuss design improvements without also discussing the cheating that might mess up with them and this is also why I am convinced that opposing cheating in games should be the most important priority since it often clashes with design and balancing changes.
     
  23. ooooooh popps ... *sigh*
    Less crappy is not the same as more powerful
    less crappy but NOT more available
    (he did not ask for easier access TO runics ... just less crappy options applied FROM runics)

    His request is reasonable, whether scripting exists OR doesn't exist
    :that: is why it is unreasonable for you to insist that YOU MUST bring scripting into it
    he is not getting MORE runics (than now) with scripting ingame (with his change to work on)
    he will have LESS available if the impossible happens, and scripting is eliminated ...

    yeah ... I SAID IT ...
    eliminating scripting is impossible for this team at this time under these falling subscription conditions
    they can't get the runes working for their brand new ships
    did scripting cause that?
    no
    it did not ...
    some core/foundational FATAL FLAW in the CODE caused that
    buried hidden obscured at some unimaginable level In The Code
    not "suddenly appearing" But ever there and ever birthing new bugs
    for how many YEARS POPPS? ...
    (project started in 1995 and was shown to the public at E3 in 1996)

    :talktothehand: no, you need not saddle a reasonable request with your unreasonable nattering on about "scripting"
    you need not
    you probably will ... but >it will add nothing of a positive nature to the limited topic being discussed<
    you probably will ... but it will not advance the truly relevant cause of initiating/addressing a total crafting overhaul

    you probably will say I told you all that scripting will cause the closing of the servers and See? the servers are now on notice of closing in three months ...

    no popps ...

    the code has never flowed ... dribbled and pooled and crashed and stuttered and patched and pushed and migrated and sent back ...

    but never has it "flowed" ... not smoothly as theory thought it might ...
    never as smoothly as on inhouse test beds ...
    never in the light of the net
     
  24. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Specials are based on the effect the basic plain weapon. Without magic. Now, it would be interesting to add that as a magical effect. Why couldn't a hatchet have a something like a Hit Spell that causes a Bleed attack.....
     
  25. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Yes it is.

    If something is capable to get X done and we upgrade it to X + Y, the resulting effect IS an item more powerfull. More powerfull means it can do MORE than before and, I understand, this is the case......



    The thing is, that runics from BODs are already damn hard to get for those who do not script and damn easy to get for those who script.so, having better runics means basically handing out more powerfull items to scripters. Scripters, who script in a game where the official policy is that this activity is NOT allowed......

    So, it would mean giving out a bonus to those who do not deserve it since they do something which the game would not want them to do, scripting......

    I do not think it makes sense or it is something I can possibly agree with.



    Well, as I see it, the issue is not about those players not scripting to have access to more powerfull runics. We all know how hard it is to get BODs done without scripting, the chances to a good BOD are very slim.
    The issue is all there though, as I see it, with scripters who will have it a blast to script BODs 24/7 and get a ton and a half of the new, empowered runics to get further advantage from them.

    I cannot possibly agree with this. Scripting has to first go away and only after this it could be possible to introduce more powerfull items that are currently heavily scriptable.


    I dissent. I do not see why the current Dev Team could not address both issues just fine.

    Lack of resources ? But we just got Bazaar Vendors, new tiles which required graphics work and blah blah. It means that there IS some resources available.

    It is all a matter of priorities. Personally, rather than giving Bazaars or new tiles to players, I'd FIRST address existing issues like the boat rune bug AND getting rid of cheating in UO and only after this I'd think about bringing in new stuff or improving current stuff like the runics.....

    To me, it makes no sense to make changes to a game that has ALREADY problems like with existing bugs or a rampant cheating. I see it, as adding more floors to a House with unstable foundations. Before adding new floors (new content...) I would see it more appropriate to solify the existing foundations (fix existing bugs and get rid of cheating), get the building right and ready to get new floors and ONLY THEN, add new floors to it.....


    I love crafting, it is one of the things I enjoy the most in UO, but scripting KILLS crafting for me as a crafter because when others can have mules and script their crafting needs making it easy for them to be self-sufficient, this totally and completely devalues my time in the game.

    One of the arguments of those who support scripting, is that it makes the items being scripted cheap as hell because of their over abundance thanking to scripting and this means that those who hate crafting, will just do fighting and buy for peanuts the scripted items by the dozens......

    But this makes the game unplayable for those who do not script because they end up having a hard time to get those same items being scripted, costing them way too much time and since their worth ends up being peanuts since they are overly scripted, it makes it simply not worth the time for all those players who do not script. It kills the game for them. They would like to engage in scriptable activities without scripting but because scripting exists, they cannot compete with scripters and so they are thrown out of the market. It kills the game for non scripters.

    This is why improving runics cannot be discussed without talking about scripting. The 2 things are so closely related that it is meaningless to me to talk about improving runics only.


    If the servers are on notice of being closed in 3 months I am not sure why we are even discussing any changes to the game. Just let's play these last 3 months and then be done with UO when the time comes....

    Any further discussion about UO is meaningless if its destiny is set in stone and already doomed.



    I never expected code to flow smoothlessly and painlessly. Problems can arise, it is perfectably expactable to me. But when problems arise, solutions are studied and problems solved as they surface. This is what I would imagine to happen......
     
  26. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    Your turn, Fayled!
    Go for the eyes!
     
  27. MrNiceMNC

    MrNiceMNC Journeyman

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    Imbuing was added for two reasons:

    1. UO tryed to much to be like WOW and be all item based as opposed to skill based. Imbuing allows for everyone to have the same gear and makes it more skill based again.

    2. Valorite and Verite runic hammers where dupped in the THOUSANDS this is an attempt to lower there value just like replica's went after most of the non rep's that had been duped.
     
  28. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    Imbuing should be based on caps, where runics should exceed those caps and the total weight should increase.

    Runics are the creation of ancient power, similar to artifacts. Imbuing is a magical skill that drives from that teaching from the ancients who created the artifacts.

    You would think most of the knowledge of how these great artifacts were forged, is lost. So, our ability to imbue would not be equal.

    The runic hammer, on the other hand, would have a direct link because it is in itself, an artifact or a tool that would of been used by the ancients themselves.

    The BoD system is flawed, in that, it is a random system which makes it unfair or unbalanced. There should be an award system added that calculates a chance of a higher award based on a total sum of points.

    For example: Every BoD could be worth a certain amount. A large BoD would give incentive with a bonus. So, if each BoD, individually gave 10 points then a large BoD of 5 could give 100 points.

    These points could then be turned in to a master smith for a reward that is picked from a list of items.

    This would insure that the BoD system is an earned system and with changes to their rewards it would become a more viable system.
     
  29. legendsguy

    legendsguy Sage
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    in an effort to be succinct, the difference between imbuing and runics is that with imbuing you get whatever properties you like, but with a lower weight limit. runics, however, have a higher weight limit, but the properties are random.

    having said that, it's quite obvious that imbuing has all but obsoleted any other methods of creating weapons/armor (especially bows). so perhaps the answer ought to be more powerful runics. then again, as was mentioned, more duping will be quite inevitable. arguably, however, what would make the most sense is a complete overhaul of the crafting system that steers away from runics altogether.

    but with 11,000 players there's no real point.
     
  30. Surgeries

    Surgeries Grand Poobah
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    *Waits Excitedly*

    Oh God...GO FOR THE EYES OR SOLAR PLEXUS!!!

    :pancakes: :eyes: :thumbup: :party:
     
  31. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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  32. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    I would like to see monster hunting revamped for the chance to get more elite weapons. As it is now there is no point in monster hunting other than to unravel everything for essence :(