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Tmap's and hunt and peck ... Cal do something!

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Lady Storm, Aug 16, 2010.

  1. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    After Multiple new maps I got out of reciently done chests, my headache began... the new maps are a pain in the royal tush.

    These new maps need to have coordinates bad. The random places is fine but when it takes copying the map to an outside program to blow it up to get an idea where the point of the pin is then dig 2 steps to the left is NOT FUN. I am not alone in this thinking, just read the Thunters forum.

    Fun is gathering your friends for a round of map hunting, the events that follows the shoval hitting the ground is what makes Tmaps so much fun.
    Not the hours spent hunting the spot down on the computer. Once there having my friends wait so long, it's a wonder they were so angry. The map is that much trouble cause you have to hunt and peck for the exact spot. Worst part is still not finding it on most!
    I for one dont need another stroke cause this stress, Do something or I quit Thunting.
    13 years down the drain. And Thunting is my favorite thing to do.
     
  2. Drazasamus

    Drazasamus Guest

    there aretwo ways to find the map spots, uocartographer or the EC, both are easy, and if you have mining to gm, you got 5 squares away. I can usually find the spot in 5-6 digs. If you don't want to or can't use these methods, then sorry, i don't know any other way to help you besides saying mark a rune to all the spots and start a new system.
     
  3. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    Just use cartographer. I can usually find them within 10 minutes by just comparing the map with where I am located. I have found at least 4 level 6 maps that are not obtainable. These are the real issue. I love the new system though and adding coordinates would make it wayyy too easy. Especially for what you can get out of these.
     
  4. Drazasamus

    Drazasamus Guest

    new maps will change again in 30 days, so hang onto them if you can't obtain the chest... I even had one i had to "dig" in the water to get, and the chest came up right on the edge of the shore
     
  5. Verthandi

    Verthandi Guest

    I agree with the responses above- coordinates would take the 'hunt' (and fun) out of the process.

    It never takes me more than a few digs to find chests using UO Cartographer (and GM mining), and boy have I done a lot of chests. The trick was realising that chests will sit slightly east of their pins, and not on the pins themselves, which is a little silly.
     
  6. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I don't think they need coordinates, but I DO think something needs to be done. You should HAVE to use an outside program to dig up treasure maps, thats silly.

    They should either up the dig radius, or incorporate tracking somehow... I dunno. It is REALLY hard to find the spot without using cartography, which I think is a sign of a design flaw.
     
  7. Myna

    Myna Guest

    the dig radius is fine when you have mining.

    it was never intented that t hunts should be soloable ... yes even with mining in the skills it is.

    with gm mining i find the spot in a few minutes, the spot is always a bith right in the lower 1/3 of the pin, just comparing the map and radar map
    i dont need to screenshot and compare pixels (that would need much more time than using mining) and the pixels are never the same .... whatever.
    the map has the exact structures/pixels like the radar map ... the only thing is the rotation of 45 degree of the radar map ... but its still not hard ... even no need for uo cartographer

    i am using the classic client, dont know how it is in the enhanced one

    so great job ... there is no need to change something for locating the spot


    coordinates? what a joke .... hey, why not making the map recallable .... recall on the map and you are on top of the spot
     
  8. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I need to disagree here.

    It is called Treasure Hunting for some reasons.....

    I mean, it is NOT called Treasure Digging or Looting or Banking, it is called "Hunting".

    Hunting, requires, at least IMHO, searching.......

    If it was easy and quick to find the spot than it would not be "Hunting" but merely "digging" a chest up a go-go.......

    I am sorry, but on this one I, being a critic, usually, have to congratulate with the Developers and applaude their doing.

    They finally brought the "Hunting" back.......

    This does not need to be changed at all other than fixing the bad locations which are not diggable.
     
  9. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    I only would have one request with the new method -

    We tested a really nice location-finding system last fall in the Turkey event. The maps were on set coordinates, but we didn't realize it until one did a few dozen maps - but finding the exact spot, event with the clues, was fun and not even close to automatic, for a spot we hadn't been to before.

    Add that part of the code, for recognizing you're in the right area. Key it in on the character's current Cartography skill, if need be, or with a narrower scope.

    Mining would still come into play for distance digging, but it shouldn't be the skill governing ease of finding the spot on the map on which to dig. That is, by DEFINITION, a Cartography job. Mining logically should only apply once you know you're at the right spot.

    I'd also rather see mandatory Cartography required for digging and opening chest, and the Cartography having to be on a party member for anyone to loot, than now have people pulling the Soulstone stunt twice (once to decode, once to dig, then recall out to stone off Mining for LP, after the guardians die), which is what a sizable number of people state they are doing.

    Cal, If you thought that by adding Mining to the requirements would get people to have it on their permanent templates, you were sorely mistaken. You just made soulstone trickery even more prevalent in Treasure Hunting.
     
  10. Fink

    Fink Guest

    If you're hunting with friends you can perhaps afford to drop some firepower and take up Mining. It will mean less waiting around for them and they contribute more by dealing with the spawn for you.

    Alternatively, you might wish to plan ahead on your own. Stockpile some maps, however many digs you think you might want to do in one group outing. Decode them and seek out each location. Once you hit the chest, abort the dig by stepping away. Mark a rune and store it with the corresponding map. Do this for all your maps and you'll be ready for the next group hunt.

    You could always pick up GM Mining when you're doing your preparation, and stone it off once you have all your runes marked. The key is to do large batches.

     
  11. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    All my gm carts have gm mining. But thank you Fink for thinking.
     
  12. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Got nothing to do with their soloability. I have had to give up on maps because I couldn't find them, and I have GM mining. Your better than me at finding them clearly, but I have heard plenty of stories of difficulties akin to mine all over the place.

    I'd happily bring friends along if I could find the damn things.
     
  13. Says who? I don't see anywhere in the patch notes or Developers' comments that says T-Maps shouldn't be "soloable."

    That aside, Lady Storm if you are taking more than one minute WITH mining or more than 5 minutes WITHOUT mining, then you can probably improve your search methods. Perhaps getting help from some other T-Hunter on your shard? As a couple people have already pointed out, with the EC client and/or UOCartographer it's not hard to find the chest, but you have to learn to identify nearby landmarks.
     
  14. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    It took me 15 minutes with GM mining and UOC to find one map south of the Tokuno on my secondary T-hunter, Old Man. Tried all of the recommended tricks, but it ended up a screenwidth east and south of where all the landmarks in the T-map indicated it should be (about twice the width of the rectangular art for the pin, including the transparent parts).

    I only got called in on it after my guildmates couldn't find it for 15 minutes themselves.

    Not all the maps seem to be displaying their locations correctly.

    The "turkey nest" clue system would keep the challenge of locating the exact spot while retaining the random locations. In fact, we were led to believe that system was a dry run for future changes to the Treasure Hunting system, and those were accepted quite well in comparison to the current system.
     
  15. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    I really doubt any of my characters, bar the pure crafters, could not handle a level 1 t-map spawn.......

    It might be hoped that high level maps lead people to form groups to do them, but it's in no way an 'intention' they should not be soloable.
     
  16. Amber Moon

    Amber Moon Seasoned Veteran
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    I think this is the nub of it. There seems to be a lot of vets in this game who want to maximize the efficiency of everything they do in the game. This leads to templates like sampires and treasure hunter capable of soloing top level chests.

    Well, fine I guess if that is your preference. But I don't think designers set out with that in mind or, more importantly, should adjust game mechanics if such things turn out to be difficult or impossible.

    Now its time for a little music: Que Cat Steven's famous 'Loot Train'. Opps, maybe that is not the exact lyrics.. :)
     
  17. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    I actually had my primary Treasure Hunter as a Paladin TH (no Bushido, no necro), specifically to make high level maps a challenging solo (after all, most T-hunters were Tamers, bards, mages, or some combination, and that was typically too easy prior to the buff to AW). Now, he primarily sticks to low-level maps, as I refuse to soulstone skills, and having no mining will be difficult.
    My second T-hunter was designed from the outset to be a mage that would lead party digs, and all I had to do was drop resist spells to add mining.

    Now, to "Solo" high-end t-maps. I take that second (female) TH (created on my 3rd account with the name of a primary account character for RP purposes) out with my Tamer from my main account, and all she does is dig, pick, provide Rezzes and add cargo capacity on her giant beetle, while the Tamer does the chest looting and spawn fighting. And, with maps like one on Ocarina (3 AW and 4 other guardians), even that isn't enough.

    The whole concept of cookie-cutter maxed out characters is anathema to my style of gaming (which is one of the reasons why I'll never play a sampire - the others are internal game logic and the fact that it was abused severely, prior to the change to necro forms) - yet that's what these changes are yet another move toward - totally uniform, vanilla, blah-ness.

    Interesting notes: one of the level 6s I did had THREE 6-property items (all garbage, but still). And two of them, despite being new maps, were exactly on an old t-map spot. 2 of the spots (the one mentioned in a previous reply, and one on Fire Island, though not as severe) were considerably off-kilter from the spot the map indicated as their location. The other 5 that were where the triangulation methods actually agreed with their real locations were old maps, or new ones that coincidentally fell on old map spots (or close enough to not be apparent.)
     
  18. I have no problem with adding this system to make finding maps easier, or scaling distance of the Cartography skill. I agree with your other posts that we should not need to (and I think we should not be able to) stone off some skills after locating/digging the chest.

    That said, I think you are way over exaggerating the difficulty of finding the chest. You are probably correct that some of the pin markers aren't exactly where they should be, making it more difficult. In my mind, the markers should be fixed change the rest of the whole treasure map system. I have 3 maps that are in bad locations, but that has been fixed and they will reset in 30 days.

    And I don't have a maxed out character to do any and all levels of the T-Maps. But I do have a select set of skills that let me do level 6 maps solo. My crafter can solo level 1 and 2 maps, but it isn't reasonable for me to expect to complete a level 6 map with that set of skills. I don't find it reasonable to make drastic changes so your Paladin can solo higher level maps. It's just not that hard to find chests without mining.
     
  19. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Just the ability to zoom in on the map would work fine.
     
  20. I agree. I can zoom in with the mouse utility that came with the mouse I have, but the resolution is awful.
     
  21. Here is a picture from a treasure map in Tokuno that I completed during lunch. The top arrow points to a fish steak that I dropped before digging. The lower arrow shows the chest as the digging begins. Notice it is only 1 tile away from where I dropped the fish steak. Most chests are within 5 tiles, usually closer. I use the EC client and UOCartographer. It's not that I am that good at finding chest, practice reading the map just makes it that easy. This is why I don't find it hard with zero mining skill.

    [​IMG]
    Magnifier utility used on the Treasure Map; fish steak showing location where I started digging.

    [​IMG]
    UOCartographer map zoomed in to same detail as zoomed Treasure Map.

    A zoom-able map make even the mouse zoom utility unnecessary.
     
  22. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Seriously? If you gave TMaps coords, what would the point be? That wouldn't be treasure hunting if they gave you the coords, haha. And 13 years? Really? All you have to do is find the end of the pin, move in game East of pin, and dig. Why would you quit after 13 years because of that? Petra and them even made a step by step guide before all shards were published.
     
  23. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    I have had little problem finding the spots, at least the ones in the old lands. Don't use EC, dont have UOCartographer.
    Just keep in mind the radar map is tilted, so your movement has to be adjusted for that.
    Patience and practice, it's actually part of the fun of the hunt, to hit and miss =)
     
  24. OR... they could just make T-Maps work the way fishing nets do. But instead of dropping the net in deep water, you just dump the map on the ground wherever! No need for mining, no need to add coordinates! Lots of fun at Luna bank!

    Hrrmm... OH and, I'm sure it would still be too hard for some crafters. So, add level -1 and -2 maps. Yes - Negative levels! Everything that spawns kills itself, and the loot (only the good stuff mind you) pops into your bank box! Instead of essences, you get runic hammers and runic sewing kits!

    I can't wait!
     
  25. Green Mouser

    Green Mouser Guest

    Mining and Cart combined should increase range. I peck because i cant stand EC and dont use 3rd party programs....So I choose to do things the hard way. I love it when I get lucky and find therr bootie
     
  26. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I've had no problems finding them or digging them up.

    However my friend can't get a break. Both of us have GM mining, cart, and lockpicking.

    Me all my maps have been fine so far... Him.... 4 have been in the center of houses either NPC homes or Player homes.

    4 others of his maps say "You stop digging because you are standing on the chest" If he moves just a step to any side they say "You stop digging because you can no longer see the location"... Go figure....

    So I've dug probably 2 dozen maps to his one.
     
  27. All of those invalid map locations are supposed to reset after 30 days, so hang onto those maps. I've done about 50 maps with only 3 or 4 bad ones.
     
  28. Gidge

    Gidge Sage
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    i am fine with this, *wait 30 days and the map will reset thing* but what is to guarantee it will not be another invalid spot? If if they guarantee it will not then that is fine.
     
  29. Willard

    Willard Seasoned Veteran
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    I have not had any problem finding map spots on maps that are dig-able. I use EC and nothing else..once you get the hang of it it goes pretty quickly. As far as making friends wait--I pre mark runes to the exact spot by starting to dig and once the ground starts shifting stop digging and mark a rune on that spot. I will pre-mark 6 or so maps so when I get together with friends we just gate/recall, dig, kill, and loot...then move on to the next one.

    Thanks to Uvtha for the correct "Rune" spelling:)
     
  30. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Runes. You mark runes.
     
  31. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    If anything, I'm understating it - THREE different cartographers couldn't find the map, by looking at the area all indications said it should be in. When I found it, I could see one of the tamers standing with his dragon on the left edge of my screen - who was on the right bottom edge of my screen when I was looking for it in the area it should have been, based on the in-game maps and UO Cartographer.

    As for my paladin, you have what I was meaning backward. Originally he was created to make the old maps a challenge - now, of course, anything level 6 will be near-impossible for him, which is perfectly fine by me (he had trouble with level 6s, even before the changes). He's meant as an illustration of how far I had to go to get away from the cookie-cutter solo templates that will now dominate T-hunting even MORE as a result of the changes, and that his real mission in life, as a THB Guildmaster, is to facilitate others doing maps - not necessarily do them solo.

    The mining crap will make this hard on him (what would I remove? I won't soulstone, and my character would be hard pressed to do more than watch if I removed any of my other 6 skills to put on even a token amount of mining), so I guess he'll have to take a back-burner to my other T-hunter once my supply of decoded maps are done. He'd be happy doing levels 1-3 if he could have something better than a hail-mary chance to find the spot to dig (he's designed to stand at the chest spawn site for low-level maps, so being able to dig from a distance has no benefit to him - he just wants to actually USE his map skills to read maps).
     
  32. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    EC is really dope when you do find the chest. If you use EC your looting time is like 5 seconds cause you can just take out the good stuff w/ grid view then leave. I use 2D to find it, EC to loot, haha.
     
  33. I came up with a strategy that helps me out ALOT, i just get in the general area and use a ruler to line myself up with landmarks ect, i use uo cartographer and once i get it lined up to where i think im in the area i dig a 5x5 area and find the treasure 100% of the time within that radius :thumbup1:
     
  34. That is essentially what I do, but I eye-ball it without the rulers. I was using fish steaks to mark the corners of my search area, but found just marking what I think is the center to be faster.

    The hardest spots I've found so far are jungles and flat, featureless grassy areas. Tokuno is the easiest by far because of the rugged coastlines.
     
  35. I see. Well, the only thing I can say is maybe hook up with one of the other T-Hunters to learn how they do the maps. We can all learn from each other, even those of us who have been doing the same thing for years now. Like you, I don't believe that mining should play any role in Treasure Hunting, but it does and many of us have learned to deal with it quite well. If you really are having that much trouble with every map, not just one, then you are doing something wrong. Ask for help and any of us will be glad to offer assistance.

    As far as cookie-cutter templates, I'm not sure why that is a problem. But even so, I can see at least 4 or 5 different builds with the current characters that I have that can solo all levels of the maps - none what I would call max skills uber builds, that I just don't have the gold to buy the 120 scrolls. Many of the skills have changed for ALL play styles, and we need to adapt to those changes if we want to keep up.
     
  36. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    100% Agreement w/ OP, enough that I dumped all my maps & 2 skills. If it becomes popular, I see map prices going up, maybe to [email protected] I've sold lvl5's for below 1k & was glad to get it.
    I think I may like the change now.
     
  37. Willard

    Willard Seasoned Veteran
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    Lol....Thank You....I never could spell!
     
  38. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    1. I hate the EC client. (drives my eyes nuts to watch it, its a blure to me)

    2. I did the ruler on the maps I have been trying and the blowing it up to size, also using uocart and uoam. I did the grid pattern on the sites, step, dig, step, dig and still no chest. and I have GM Mining, GM Carto, GM Lockpicking. I dont "stone" skills for hunting maps or basic hunting period.

    3. The replacement of the cordinates would only give you a basic way to find the spot. I dont know how many times the chest on old spots was off by multi tiles. The NEW maps are RANDOM places so for those of you who cant get it into your heads this means NOT SET SPOTS and you still have to WALK in. (unless you happen to have runes to areas near by.. Ish is a total other ball game for maps its all footwork.) There is no lost HUNTING for the treasure chests.

    4. GM mining gave you with old maps a 5 step radius from the chest location to dig and activate its rise to the surface. I am with all this information and experence of years doing Tmaps baffeled why the new maps I have dont work... something occured to me, could the maps I have be bugged? or incorrect??

    Sorry....
    I'd rather spend the time and have fun killing the guardians and joking with my friends and family then stressing over a pin spot that is hell to find. Time is of the essence, most times to get them to play UO all at the same time is a major feat of coordination. The Real World comes first.
     
  39. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    Thinking of radius, maybe they could make it like zeefzorpal's flute, close(30 tiles), closer(20 tiles), Bingo(9 tiles or less).And the chest comes up where the digger is - that way, treasure in the water or under a house is gotten, also saving a call to CS.
     
  40. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    I went and retried the maps I was having trouble with, using many of the people here's suguestions.
    I also read the file Petra redid.

    There was one tiny thing I didnt see and my son got wrong.

    Its to the RIGHT of the pin.

    I hate to say this but even 4 tiles away is too small a gap for some maps that last one I did took me still 1 hour just to find it.
    Oh I had both uocart and uoam up,ruler, the mini map and my stamp collecting eyepeice to get better look at pixels........ had it been a denser jungle or busier spawn area no way in hadies would I have gotten it.
    I was down to counting the pixels and puddles on the map!!

    This is fun???

    Give me a balron anyday... at least I can see him coming!
     
  41. Do you have a character on LS? I can show you how I do it, if that would help.
     
  42. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    i don't have any issues.
     
  43. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    That's how the Turkey Event maps worked, only with a slightly tighter radius, and you had to be within a square or two of the nest to get it to pop.
     
  44. Sonoma

    Sonoma Guest

    THIS!!!!!
     
  45. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I put mining on my Thunter.. only thing now is.... He can't do squat by himself anymore.