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To the Devs: Resisting Spells

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Zosimus, Dec 7, 2010.

  1. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    So if the you fixed magic reflect can you at least make resisting spells back the way it was intended to work?
     
  2. Babble

    Babble Guest

    Reflect never lowered your physical resist before AOS, so it is not the same.
     
  3. Vlaude

    Vlaude Lore Keeper
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    Wait a minute now, you're suggesting something game balancing and new player friendly.. those are dangerous waters to tread on my friend.
     
  4. Skrag

    Skrag Visitor

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    What are you guys even talking about?
     
  5. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    Im talking about resisting spells. It used to be like parry to spells back in the day. Not like today for poison amd paralyze mostly.
     
  6. WildWobble

    WildWobble Sage
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    here here with one low skill tinker made trap box you negate the benifit of 120 skill in resist spells completely oh shucks you take between 5-15 dmg like that ever stoped the multitude of Gimplates out there from droping resist. Make resist work like the name implies, It will resist magic % chance to negate spells is alot better then the crapola it does now.

    Waits for the mages to get riled up about it.
     
  7. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Pre AOS, if you successfully resisted a spell using magic resist (aka resist spells), you take half damage. Edit, I mean besides the resisting paralyze etc that's still in place now.

    I can understand where the OP is coming from regarding the related change to the magic reflect spell, but it's actually 2 different things.

    Plus, with post AOS elemental resists provided by armour, halving spell damage on top of 70 resists would really be bad.

    I know, magic reflect will totally negate damage. But it'll only be a spell or 2. And it cannot be recast back to back to give perma defense.
     
  8. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    With resisting spells we had magery only before AoS and with SW, Necromancy, and Mysticism it should work yet again before AoS. Thats 4 types of magic casting that is in use today. Only reason I mentioned magic reflect was because they actually changed it. Just was hoping to get resisting spells some love :)
     
  9. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    My take on this new vs classic skill functionality is if you are going to make magic resist work as classic, you cannot do it unless you raise the spell damage on all spells especially magery spells significantly. As is rightnow mages maxed out SDI 120 eval AND scribe still cannot even slip a dexer's bandage unless they cast anything bigger than an ebolt.

    Thanks to those wonderful apples usable once every 15 seconds, explosion/ebolt on people with all 70s do about 22-25 damage. 22-25dmg can be dealt EASILY by any dexer with a NORMAL SWING with hit spell. And mages do not have anything that can be used to "bypass" armor mitigation like dexer's Nerve/AI/Death Strike which are all irresistible direct damage.

    Couple things you gotta consider. Original release UO mages was designed to be able to drop an opponent from full life in 4 6th circle spells, unless there's healing and/or spells resisted. This is why a mage is only capable of casting at most 6 consective Ebolt before they run out of mana. Mages were the most feared tamplate in the entire UO with amazing burst damage capability that can kill someone in a few seconds doing a spell combo combined with a hally or warhammer hit before you release that ebolt for the kill. (kinda like dexers now).

    Now today, things changed. Pure mages are the least feared/lowest dps/lowest burst/lowest survivability template in the entire UO. Simply because their laughable damage vs the skill it takes to cast spells STAND STILL while any dexers can kill you in 3 hits if you arent paying attention. Also mages are the EASIEST target to dismount. If you play a drive by dismount archer right, anything bigger than a mini heal should give you enough time to dismount the mage.

    Mages are jokes thus why people flooded necromancy because there was no other choices. Tank mages was imo one of the most fun tamplates and was able to rival necromages, then other than added tactics requirement to do specials they destoryed an entire playstyle not mentioning the FUN by taking away pre-toggle special while casting (this killed a lot of HL/Necro dexers as well). And changing apple timer from "you feel stuffed" to 2 min and then reduce it to 15 sec we have gradually nerfed necromages as well.

    Then at ML with quivers added damage/insurable AMMO + 2nd hit spells + balanced mod we officially entered the age of archers online for awhile until SA. Now mysticism comes along and giving mages comparable burst damage as dexers of course people will flood myst realm.

    Facts: Myst Mage > Necro Mage > Pure Mage.
    Any random template > pure mage.

    Mages should have their spell damages increased across the board if they dont have necro/mysticism. NOT making their spells hit even weaker in the world where dexers has the highest burst damage, sustained damage, survivability, PvM damage and the mobility.

    15 second apple to a mage/necro is like me able to eat a pie once every 15 second and it will last for the next 3 hits that reduce all weapon/special moves damage received by 25% to dexers (unless the dexers "re-hit" the mage again with a special move called "weapon curse" again).

    ********? its the samething dealing with apples as a mage.

    Anyways, magic resist should only be changed to its pre-AoS functionality if all magery spell damages are increased significantly.
     
  10. Elden of Baja

    Elden of Baja Journeyman
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    :bdh: :sad2:


    *Not going to derail thread, Not going to derail Thread, Not Going to Derail Thread*

    :flame:
    :wall:
    :fight:


    I'm Definitely Against Putting Resisting Spells back to the way it used to be. And One of my mains is a resisting spells archer. This will just make it 10X harder to kill EVERYONE.
     
  11. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    Most PvP chars dont have resisting spells so thats why we use all the other stuff to stay alive. Now some do but this would be beneficial for both mages or any template that has it. Wont happen anyway b/c this has been asked before and never has been changed.
     
  12. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Resist won't ever be like it was, but I think having Resist is on the rise again thanks to Mysticism. The introduction of Mysticism killed off a few no-resist templates from being as useful on the field. But it's like that Simpsons episode where the lizard thing eats the pigeons then they get like a gorilla or something to kill the lizards? lol in other words, Mystics were too overpowered, now they're being nerfed ... and I guess we'll see how it goes from there, and who emerges. Looks like ninjas.

    I wouldn't mind a rare chance to resist a direct damage spell here or there, though, with 100 or more Resist ... or a chance to have a slight decrease of incoming SDI on occasion. I really would have liked to see the new Magic Resist reflect a Hit Spell proc, too -- I'll have to check test again to see if it still doesn't.
     
  13. I Play UO

    I Play UO Visitor

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    I would. There's just nothing quite like getting stunned by an insta-boulder that has like a 1% chance to stun. Nothing in PvP should ever come down to dumb luck such is the case when this happens.
     
  14. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Hm. What if you had a 1% chance to resist insta-boulder? :p Teasing ... I see where you're coming from, though. What about being able to resist one of 1,000 magic arrow coming at you from an undead 1st tier? Could make it non-PvP like that, have it so an opponent w/ low eval has low-level spells completely resisted by 120 resist sometimes.
     
  15. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    If that was the case, then UO is clearly NOT suitable as a PvP game.
    Facts are RNG is whats making dexers so powerful.
    At the sametime they have control over the situation if the RNG didnt play out right.

    For example, you can have an archer that double shot and both shots landed on you AND 50% lighting procs TWICE AND 50% velocity procs TWICE resulting in 75+ damage in one arrow against all 70 resist. Or the archer can FAIL at the RNG and keeps on whiffing... then the "control" comes in to play...... Run away let bandage kick in and re-RNG it. :lick:

    That's fundamental difference between mages and dexers. When the benefit of RNG out-weights players skill (because there's no consequences for dexers whiffing, but RNG CAN make them two shot you)... you get Ultima Online.


    Sadly but true.
     
  16. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    I run 120 resist and putting it back to the way it was pre-AOS would just be stupid. It's plenty useful enough the way it is. Putting resist back the way it was would make magery pretty much useless for doing damage in pvp.
     
  17. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    As for the whole business of randomness, I like randomness. And I think UO is a great pvp game, in part due to randomness. If you don't have randomness you generally end up with one "right" way of doing things, and everybody will use that way and after that all it comes down to is your connection, your hardware, and hand-eye coordination.

    UO is an mmorpg, not an fps. If I want to play an fps I can go play Counter-Strike, or Team Fortress 2, or whatever the current fps-du-jour is. I like the fact that in UO you have to think, and plan, and there isn't one "right" way of doing things. I like the fact that things don't always work out the way you plan, and I'm not going to always lose to that 15 year old "733t d00d" just because he has the great eyes and reflexes that you only have when you are young.

    There are plenty of fps options out there, including Darkfall Online, which is pretty much an mmofps. It that is what you are looking for, go play that. I'll continue to love the quirkiness of UO where you can't always predict the outcome, and part of being a good, skilled player, is dealing with surprises and unexpected outcomes.
     
  18. Elden of Baja

    Elden of Baja Journeyman
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    And as a mage you rely on this RNG for a dexxer TO miss you 5 times in a row. He keeps hitting you, you run away and get on the deffensive......

    And odds of actualy landing the Double Yum Yum And Both Spells is Beyond Ridiculous.

    Multiply the chance to actually Land Both shots (Under or around 50%) *50%*50%*50%*50%(chance for landing all spells)

    and you have a 3% chance to land the double Yum Yum with ALL procs

    Multiply that by the 50% Chance to hit you.

    Now only 1.5% of all my swings with a double Yum Yum will hit you with a double shot that has ALL of the Proc's Going off on it. (And that bow can't be balanced and still have 40 SSI and still have 50 Lightning 50 Velocity). In order for it to do 75 Damage (Which would be THE max it could probably do) It would have to roll for both shots being the highest possible, AND the person shooting it would have to be the maximum number of tiles from you for the velocity to hit you hard enough.



    Compare to mage tactic.
    *Hope the RNG craps out long enough for me to hit him with a curse, explo, FS*

    AT best, most people will Swing a Yumi at 2s per swing

    Curse + explo + FS

    I'm going to ROUND UP on all the times for spells in your benefit

    Curse - 1.5s
    Explo - 2s
    FS - 2.25s

    Total Time ~ 6s
    TOTAL DAMAGE ON A SCRIBE MAGE WITH 15 SDI - 70 - 74 DAMAGE

    Now, lets see the odds of me Missing 3 Shots.

    50 * 50 * 50

    = 12.5%


    Chance for a mage against a Yumi wielding archer to do 72 Damage
    12.5%

    Chance for an archer to HIT a mage for 75 Points of damage
    Less than 1.5%

    PLEASE STOP BRINGING UP THIS BS ABOUT DEXXERS

    And BTW a Cursed Flamestrike from a mage against a 100 Healing, 100 Anatomy dexxer does make their bandages slip, and does decrease how much I heal. Not to mention if you time your poison it gets rid of it entirely.


    My Appologies for De-Railing this thread, But I am sick and tired of these finding these posts in every thread I go to.
     
  19. I Play UO

    I Play UO Visitor

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    The point I was making is that if you're going to give something such a ridiculously small chance of occurring, which only effects PvP, then why do it at all?
     
  20. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    People still stand around and let mages do a full blown curse exp fs? Do you know how to play a dexer? Why arent you using your mobility. You can always turn around and run straight line and the mage will NEVER kill you. Its like god mode. And if the mage turn around and run straight line and not doing anything like a dexer could, he will die to moving shots.

    What I said isnt BS, its BS to dexer only noobs. If mages is so OP and powerful, why arent you playing one? I think dexers and archers are MUHC MUCH more powerful than your every day mage on a field fight where mobility and burst damage means everything... and offscreen being a valid tactics.

    If mages are so powerful... you can tell me what shard you play... I will play ur BS underpowered dexer say a disarm archer with resist against your very very powerful spells never miss mage (so you can curse exp fs me and kill me quickly), and we will see what happen.

    Again, the OPs suggestion will make already powerful dexers to be even more powerful especially vs mages, and if you disagree... YOU play a mage and I will play a archer/dexer and show you how a dexer should be played and make you feel how miserable you are when you get automatically PARALYZED 100% of the time (no RNG needed) when trying to attack PARALYZED (100% of the time when you try to cast a heal it will freeze you no RNG needed) when trying to heal. PARALYZED again 100% of the time when trying to curse me.

    And I gurrantee you for 100% of the time when you try to curse me you will get frozen again 100% of the time no RNG needed and I will just instant apple ON THE RUN and the apple will work 100% of the time no RNG needed to remove your curse/strangle/sleep/spell plague/weaken/clumsy/feeblemind/mind rot).

    Most dexers problem is... they dont know how to play a mage. It's simple as that.
     
  21. Novak(Caci)

    Novak(Caci) Guest

    WarUltima

    If you are a mage-necroand misticism you are a super mage and can kill everythink.Maybe its a good idea when magic reflect if you have this skill and have 120 skill it takes 50 percentage of all mage spellls damage and i mean mage necro and misticism.
     
  22. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Hmm why do people like to go with just one example?
    Disarm will literally raise the chance of that happening by 400% btw but we will use something else for example.

    Spell Plague (100% on cast, 90% 2nd hit, 60% 3rd hit, 30% 4th hit)
    Nerve (50% hit chance and 90% chance to paralyze 50% chanceto hit lighting)
    to
    Nerve (50% hit chance and 0% chance to paralyze 50% chance to hit lighting)

    Why are people complaining? Spell Plague obviously does NOT proc all the time. And nerve strike can whiff half of the time and 1 in 10 nerve strike will fail to paralyze the victim... So its safe to say it does not ALWAYS work (as in SP Double nerve bombard instant kill)... Then why are people complaining? And when the box dexer do whiff, can they NOT cast clensing wind? can they NOT run in straight line casting confidence?

    And when mages gets disrupted mages heal is disrrupted. When mage is disrupted, mages damage spells are also destoryed. If mages happen to get a curse off and dexer whiff, dexer will apple. And when all RNG fails on the dexers side, and mages can actually curse exp off... are you telling me at this point that NO DEXER WILL RUN AWAY THEN COME BACK AFTER THEIR BANDAGES HEAL THEM BACK TO FULL??? yea when you are running away the mage is still PARALYZED on the same spot trying to cast whatever spell he was trying to finish you off.

    Do you see my point? Archers if RNG serves right can kill people even if hes running away in straight line... and are you telling me you as a mage you can kill a dexer running away in straight line bandage kicks in once every 4 seconds poping confidence while you are standing still to cast something even as small as a maguc arrow...

    True dexers and mages both rely on RNG. But dexers always has the mobility (god mode) to control the unfavorable outcomes of the RNG. And if a dexer has his mind set on running away straight line theres NOTHING you can do as a mage especially if the dexer also run 120 resist. For anyone who play mages... there are quite often times where you have to take a 50-50 chance and stop and cast a gheal... if you win the roll and dexer whiffs and ur healed... and if you lose the roll and got hit you die... And if you dont do anything archers will kill you next successful moving shot attempt. (you are forced to make a choice and take a live-death RNG roll and you HAVE TO because you are not a dexer where a 60dmg heal will kick in 2 second later when you are running in full speed straight towards the other way.)

    A dexer played correctly will never have to take a chance to simply SURVIVE from a mage on the field. Simply turn around after you see a mage finished winding something big and bolt in straight line... you are now essentially in godmode...

    Again dexers only dies 1v1 to a mage due to them being cocky and not running away.
     
  23. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Necro Myst Mage eh... even necro myst mage can't kill a dexer bolting the other way (and it happens all the time on ALL SHARDS... believe me).

    Also, it still does NOT justify by making a game change to counter Necro Myst Mage... so it's OK to completely destory the already weak mages that dont have both necro AND myst in their template?

    It's like saying Spell Plague Nerve Nerve is too powerful, so they remove nerve strike from the game and screw all regular bushido guys that doesnt have mysticism.

    Or Archer Tamer being too overpowered so they reduce all bow range to 3 tile only and all ranged special moves have their mana cost tripled... and somehow this is OK for regular archers...
     
  24. I Play UO

    I Play UO Visitor

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    You just quoted the point I was trying to make, but respond with nothing that has anything to do with it? :confused: Do you see your point? Perhaps it is present somewhere within all the needless ranting...
     
  25. Elden of Baja

    Elden of Baja Journeyman
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    QFT

    Your example was garbage for a double Yummi = Dexxers are Over Powered.

    Lol, Fighting a dexxer 1 on 1 and he is going to kill you with nothing but running shots. Please. And the Only Template that amounts to anything IS a disarm Archer Fencer. But guess what

    Disarm Dexxer >> Mage with A mage weapon

    But still not impossible to live Through. Rock > Paper > Scissors > Rock

    Just off the Top of my head, not even counting all the extra crap I can fit on a wrestling template.

    120 Mage
    120 Eval
    120 Wrestle
    80 Med
    100 Scribe
    120 Resist
    60 Necro

    Disarm.... OH GNOOOOOOOOOO.... wait... Thats not RAIN! Bleed, Great... You just disrupted all of my spells bigger than a gheal.... Mini Heal, mini heal, mini heal, OH you mortalled me... guess apples work both ways at completely making your attacks obsolete.. APPLE. OH, i'm sorry did I just step out of your range of your bow and now you have to take a few steps to get a shot off, then wait the 1 second after stopping before you can shoot again?

    I play Baja, and I don't build ******** Templates around being able to Trump Some other Template. I've killed plenty of disarm fencers on my straight ninja archer, and if you like, I will make a ******** template and you can come at me with your silly OP dexxer template.

    In the End, I kill a HELL of alot more dexxers with my mage than I kill Mages with my Dexxer. And You're Right, Not many mages stand a chance in Hell at killing me on my archer, But its equally a pain in the ass to kill a mage with my archer. I just have to run them out of Resources :)

    At the End of the Day, I'd say mages have the advantage offensively, (Can't DODGE their spells 50% OF THE TIME)

    And Dexxers have the advantage Defensively, Ability to run off screen and heal.

    Hybridize your Template, Improve your gear, Learn how to play. Welcome to UO.
     
  26. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Hmm so you dont want to use your very powerful mage to easily kill my disarm archer? Oh I see. btw, learn to play a mage... it's much more fun (given that people WILL run if you got anything significant off).

    Sorry you missed the old days where PvP revolves on skills... but its cool tho. At least you are very confidence in yourself (other than you playing a mage and preform what you said that all mages "do"). Well once you are comfortable using more than 3 macros on your keyboard and learned the difference between heal and magic unlock spell I will officially welcome you to UO =).
     
  27. Elden of Baja

    Elden of Baja Journeyman
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    Can you Read? I have 2 Mages that I play, and 2 dexxers.... Hmmm... ( One of them is a pvm Bush Swordsman who just happens to have a godly Suit, and hits like a semi)

    Oh, and my mage has over 70 macros and Going up!
    { Thats my straight mysto mage :), not counting my hybrid mysto/necro }
    My Archer has around 50

    Obviously 47 of those macros are to *Emote* stupid taunts at people who think it only takes 3 macros to play a dexxer.