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To the Devs...*yes, Thief related*

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Guest, Apr 9, 2008.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ...for those of you who may not know me. I am Rico. I am a thief by profession. I have spoken to a few of the developers in the past (Sunsword specifically) about my profession and how poorly we have been treated over the years. This is not a Spiel, nor a Rant, so please feel free to continue reading.

    I have returned to Sosaria from a land far far away, with hopes to recapture my crown (as the King of Thieves). I have already noticed in my brief time back, that love of thieves seems to have almost entirely vanished long ago. I would like to challenge the development team to try and rekindle some of the grand fun, we thieves used to be able to have. The number one item on my list is the stealing skill. The changes over the years have pretty much turned our profession (for those who remain on the production shards) into one of either Crate (a thief that steals things, not from other players, but from crates and off the ground) or a Thief of Power Scrolls. Neither of which is nearly what it seems the profession was designed to be. We are thieves, we steal things, we steal things from players. I would love to take a tour of one of the production shard with one of you, and while hidden, show you what a thief has to look forward to every night we take to the job. It's sad really. *chokes back tears*

    The advent of insurance has pretty much left us to snoop around for cursed items, regs, pots and band aids. Hell, for that matter, LRC suits have pretty much eliminated the reg part of our thieving. I know that insurance is here to stay, but would it be possible to give us a few more proverbial bones?

    As an example. The current event, with black rock. Guess what? We've been left out. We can't even steal the black rock. Why?

    One suggestion I would like to make, and hope you might consider. To add some fun to our playing time as thieves. Would you look at the possibility of reinstating "grey status" for thieves? This may seem like something we wouldn't want, but to be honest, the fun we had in the game was based on the chase. Now that there are minimal reasons for players to chase after thieves...they really don't bother. If we were given back grey status, at least we might be able to have the famed "noto" return.

    Feel free to visit us in the thief forum. I will try and spark some additional comments, but if you have noticed the lack of activity there, you might want to consider that it's because our profession has suffered tremendously over the years.

    Let the discussion begin...la
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I've never understood what value thieves bring to the game. Where's the fun in being just yet another hapless victim of a crime lord?
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I've never understood what value thieves bring to the game. Where's the fun in being just yet another hapless victim of a crime lord?
     
  4. <blockquote><hr>

    I've never understood what value thieves bring to the game. Where's the fun in being just yet another hapless victim of a crime lord?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    putting it mildly.. the fun part about being a thief is being mischevious and cunning. If you're a true thief, you use witts to outsmart the players and take what you want what they wish they still had [​IMG]
     
  5. <blockquote><hr>

    I've never understood what value thieves bring to the game. Where's the fun in being just yet another hapless victim of a crime lord?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    putting it mildly.. the fun part about being a thief is being mischevious and cunning. If you're a true thief, you use witts to outsmart the players and take what you want what they wish they still had [​IMG]
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I've never understood what value thieves bring to the game. Where's the fun in being just yet another hapless victim of a crime lord?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    We thieves, brought a sense of excitement that imo, is missing from Ultima Online. This is a game that has always been advanced by the players and the player interaction. There are good players, and there are bad players. Thieves can be looked at as "bad", but, we also provided some challenge to players who were interested. There have always been ways to get around having thieves take your belongings...but that was part of the fun of playing a thief. Figuring out ways to get that loot. We didn't kill monsters, or craft items. We didn't kill (well, not all of us) other players. We tried to take items out of your pack. Think of us as high end AI controlled monsters.

    If we turn grey...kill us, if you can...la
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I've never understood what value thieves bring to the game. Where's the fun in being just yet another hapless victim of a crime lord?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    We thieves, brought a sense of excitement that imo, is missing from Ultima Online. This is a game that has always been advanced by the players and the player interaction. There are good players, and there are bad players. Thieves can be looked at as "bad", but, we also provided some challenge to players who were interested. There have always been ways to get around having thieves take your belongings...but that was part of the fun of playing a thief. Figuring out ways to get that loot. We didn't kill monsters, or craft items. We didn't kill (well, not all of us) other players. We tried to take items out of your pack. Think of us as high end AI controlled monsters.

    If we turn grey...kill us, if you can...la
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    You freak!!!!! I just swatted my screen thinking your avatar was real!!!!!!!!!
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    You freak!!!!! I just swatted my screen thinking your avatar was real!!!!!!!!!
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    As much as I admire the exuberance you feel for your playstyle, UO is where I go to relax, not where I go to get wound up, paranoid and annoyed. I can only speak for myself, but I want to play with people, not against people.

    ( however, what happens beyond the Red moongates is none of my business ... and if the player base as a whole decides they want a different game than I, I'll ... well, ok, I'll probably protest pretty fiercely too [​IMG] )
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    As much as I admire the exuberance you feel for your playstyle, UO is where I go to relax, not where I go to get wound up, paranoid and annoyed. I can only speak for myself, but I want to play with people, not against people.

    ( however, what happens beyond the Red moongates is none of my business ... and if the player base as a whole decides they want a different game than I, I'll ... well, ok, I'll probably protest pretty fiercely too [​IMG] )
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I relax playing the game too. But at the same time, the excitement that running away from an entire guild after you stole from their guild master are some of my more fond memories in this game...la
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I relax playing the game too. But at the same time, the excitement that running away from an entire guild after you stole from their guild master are some of my more fond memories in this game...la
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Back in the pre-Tram days it was always intersting ... yeah, that;s the word ... when one went to the bank. You never knew when a stealther thief would nip the very piece of armor you'd just busted your raer end for.

    And chasing them was fun as well ... if you were lucky you actually caught them and served justice in the true fashion the game intended.

    Maplestone ... if you read this ... Thieves and melee/magery PvP are symbiotes. There are strident PvP adherents and thieves are just as much a part of that playstyle. I understand you want to relax ... so do I ... however the Fel game is not really fully appreciated without good, sneaky, adept thieves to keep you "honest". &lt;shrug&gt;

    Nicely put, Rico ... very nice.
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Back in the pre-Tram days it was always intersting ... yeah, that;s the word ... when one went to the bank. You never knew when a stealther thief would nip the very piece of armor you'd just busted your raer end for.

    And chasing them was fun as well ... if you were lucky you actually caught them and served justice in the true fashion the game intended.

    Maplestone ... if you read this ... Thieves and melee/magery PvP are symbiotes. There are strident PvP adherents and thieves are just as much a part of that playstyle. I understand you want to relax ... so do I ... however the Fel game is not really fully appreciated without good, sneaky, adept thieves to keep you "honest". &lt;shrug&gt;

    Nicely put, Rico ... very nice.
     
  16. bring back perma-grey, and the detectives. make thieving more risky to the thief, as death and the 2 minute timer is hardly a risk.

    this brings up a point, has any other online games implemented stealing to any good degree?
     
  17. bring back perma-grey, and the detectives. make thieving more risky to the thief, as death and the 2 minute timer is hardly a risk.

    this brings up a point, has any other online games implemented stealing to any good degree?
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    *reads* I can see what you're saying.

    Setting aside my own Tram bias, I do have an honest curiosity in hearing about this playstyle from the victim's side .... there are so rarely posts from people longing to face a greater challenge from thieves, is there a secret grudging desire for the excitement of thieves in Fel?)
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    *reads* I can see what you're saying.

    Setting aside my own Tram bias, I do have an honest curiosity in hearing about this playstyle from the victim's side .... there are so rarely posts from people longing to face a greater challenge from thieves, is there a secret grudging desire for the excitement of thieves in Fel?)
     
  20. Thieves brought a sense of taking care of yourself to the game.
    There were tons of ways to defend yourself against thieves. Trapped boxes, items over ten stones, heck even just flat out killing the fool as most thieves dont have room for combat skills. Or atleast really high ones. Oh yeah poison and mages always hurt bad.

    Dare I say a sense of community?! How many people have I banded together with to help them get that rascally rogue. Or how many people have banded together to run me down. Anyone on Pacific remember Britainian Police Department? You learned who people were. You learned to watch out for a few things. YOU LEARNED TO TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF.

    With thieves in Fel you had to think about what you were doing and what you were carrying. The best thieves taught people about game mechanics. (Don't throw purple pots next to a thief with a blue horse in a guard zone. Just trust me.)

    I have played both the detective role (Which I miss just as much as thieves) and the thief.

    If you looked like a victim, walked like a victim and talked like a victim, then you became a victim. You were never a victim the same way twice. And that is on either side of the fence.

    And if you didn't want to take the risk you stayed in certain places as to were most of the anti-thief crowd is nowadays.

    Please please please please give those of us who wish to take the risk or on the same token those of us who wish to bring justice to the lawless the chance again?!
     
  21. Thieves brought a sense of taking care of yourself to the game.
    There were tons of ways to defend yourself against thieves. Trapped boxes, items over ten stones, heck even just flat out killing the fool as most thieves dont have room for combat skills. Or atleast really high ones. Oh yeah poison and mages always hurt bad.

    Dare I say a sense of community?! How many people have I banded together with to help them get that rascally rogue. Or how many people have banded together to run me down. Anyone on Pacific remember Britainian Police Department? You learned who people were. You learned to watch out for a few things. YOU LEARNED TO TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF.

    With thieves in Fel you had to think about what you were doing and what you were carrying. The best thieves taught people about game mechanics. (Don't throw purple pots next to a thief with a blue horse in a guard zone. Just trust me.)

    I have played both the detective role (Which I miss just as much as thieves) and the thief.

    If you looked like a victim, walked like a victim and talked like a victim, then you became a victim. You were never a victim the same way twice. And that is on either side of the fence.

    And if you didn't want to take the risk you stayed in certain places as to were most of the anti-thief crowd is nowadays.

    Please please please please give those of us who wish to take the risk or on the same token those of us who wish to bring justice to the lawless the chance again?!
     
  22. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hehe, i still got my Thief/Mage, Old Ninja. I only take him out to mess around with people nowadays. No real reason to have Stealing anymore considered there isn't crap to steal from people in Fel (Insurance), and "Doom Stealing" isn't really Stealing, considering it's just sitting on the ground waiting for someone to use a skill on it, like ore/wood. Noone has possession or ownership of it, so it's not Stealing.. Especially considering the Doom Scripters have a monopoly on it pretty much.

    Here's some songs that bring back some old school nostalgia. (Gotta have Real Player or something similar to listen to it, can still read lyrics though.)

    http://www.digiphobia.com/ultimasongs/html/thief.html
    http://www.digiphobia.com/ultimasongs/html/bank.html
    http://www.digiphobia.com/ultimasongs/html/50.html
    http://www.digiphobia.com/ultimasongs/html/boogie.html
    http://www.digiphobia.com/ultimasongs/html/newbielewt.html
    http://www.digiphobia.com/ultimasongs/html/enough.html
     
  23. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hehe, i still got my Thief/Mage, Old Ninja. I only take him out to mess around with people nowadays. No real reason to have Stealing anymore considered there isn't crap to steal from people in Fel (Insurance), and "Doom Stealing" isn't really Stealing, considering it's just sitting on the ground waiting for someone to use a skill on it, like ore/wood. Noone has possession or ownership of it, so it's not Stealing.. Especially considering the Doom Scripters have a monopoly on it pretty much.

    Here's some songs that bring back some old school nostalgia. (Gotta have Real Player or something similar to listen to it, can still read lyrics though.)

    http://www.digiphobia.com/ultimasongs/html/thief.html
    http://www.digiphobia.com/ultimasongs/html/bank.html
    http://www.digiphobia.com/ultimasongs/html/50.html
    http://www.digiphobia.com/ultimasongs/html/boogie.html
    http://www.digiphobia.com/ultimasongs/html/newbielewt.html
    http://www.digiphobia.com/ultimasongs/html/enough.html
     
  24. And don't give me the come to Siege crap. Somedays I feel like playing a thief ,others a warrior, others a mage, or a tamer. And I like the idea of being able to split my gains up between my characters without having to pay out the behind for extra accounts.
     
  25. And don't give me the come to Siege crap. Somedays I feel like playing a thief ,others a warrior, others a mage, or a tamer. And I like the idea of being able to split my gains up between my characters without having to pay out the behind for extra accounts.
     
  26. Guest

    Guest Guest

    You solve the problem with leg humpers and I'll jump on board a thief fix. Until then, no dice.

    About the blackrock thing...are you really asking to steal in Trammel? Seriously?

    Edit: NM...I'm going to assume you mean Siege. In that case I couldn't agree more. No reason why anything that isn't blessed cannot be stolen there.
     
  27. Guest

    Guest Guest

    You solve the problem with leg humpers and I'll jump on board a thief fix. Until then, no dice.

    About the blackrock thing...are you really asking to steal in Trammel? Seriously?

    Edit: NM...I'm going to assume you mean Siege. In that case I couldn't agree more. No reason why anything that isn't blessed cannot be stolen there.
     
  28. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    You solve the problem with leg humpers and I'll jump on board a thief fix. Until then, no dice.

    About the blackrock thing...are you really asking to steal in Trammel? Seriously?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Leg humper? I know...kill them? They are in the Thieves Guild, they can't give you a count. Fixed. Welcome aboard.

    You mean black rock only exists in Trammel? That's odd, especially since i play on Siege where we don't have a trammel rule set. Guess what, it's not stealable in the Felucca rule set. That is my concern. Thank you for letting me clarify...la
     
  29. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    You solve the problem with leg humpers and I'll jump on board a thief fix. Until then, no dice.

    About the blackrock thing...are you really asking to steal in Trammel? Seriously?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Leg humper? I know...kill them? They are in the Thieves Guild, they can't give you a count. Fixed. Welcome aboard.

    You mean black rock only exists in Trammel? That's odd, especially since i play on Siege where we don't have a trammel rule set. Guess what, it's not stealable in the Felucca rule set. That is my concern. Thank you for letting me clarify...la
     
  30. Emil Ispep

    Emil Ispep Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
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    The thief class has its lure to some. Its the *sneaking* around, trying not to make noise, or bumped into for that matter, waiting for the target to open the door for me (doors opening by themselves... cmon now...) wondering if his guildmate is inept enough to see whats going on.. sneaking next to him, peeking through his belongings.. and after a brief scuffle, admiring your new cursed blade of insanity. (bleh)

    Its the rush. Also a very fun profession to roleplay. (ransoms, heists, disguise kits, guild sabotage...) Really has its limits with item insurance and all.. and gaining skill needs to be addressed. I also mentioned an idea about a quest system, where the NPC Thief Guildmaster, or unscruplious character offers you a job to steal [insert item of value] from somewhere.. NPC house perhaps.. needing lockpicking to bypass the front door would be cool too..
     
  31. Emil Ispep

    Emil Ispep Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    643
    Likes Received:
    126
    The thief class has its lure to some. Its the *sneaking* around, trying not to make noise, or bumped into for that matter, waiting for the target to open the door for me (doors opening by themselves... cmon now...) wondering if his guildmate is inept enough to see whats going on.. sneaking next to him, peeking through his belongings.. and after a brief scuffle, admiring your new cursed blade of insanity. (bleh)

    Its the rush. Also a very fun profession to roleplay. (ransoms, heists, disguise kits, guild sabotage...) Really has its limits with item insurance and all.. and gaining skill needs to be addressed. I also mentioned an idea about a quest system, where the NPC Thief Guildmaster, or unscruplious character offers you a job to steal [insert item of value] from somewhere.. NPC house perhaps.. needing lockpicking to bypass the front door would be cool too..
     
  32. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Leg humper? I know...kill them? They are in the Thieves Guild, they can't give you a count. Fixed. Welcome aboard.


    [/ QUOTE ]
    Not fixed. They have no risk therefore have no place. Sorry. Not aboard until they are fixed. Real thieves are find but you must get rid of the zounds of opportunists that discredit the entire bunch.

    I edited for incusion of Siege. You must realise that not everyone knows you are from Siege and since that shard represents &lt;5% of the UO population it's necessary to specify. As above. Agreed on stealing anything not blessed on Siege.
     
  33. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Leg humper? I know...kill them? They are in the Thieves Guild, they can't give you a count. Fixed. Welcome aboard.


    [/ QUOTE ]
    Not fixed. They have no risk therefore have no place. Sorry. Not aboard until they are fixed. Real thieves are find but you must get rid of the zounds of opportunists that discredit the entire bunch.

    I edited for incusion of Siege. You must realise that not everyone knows you are from Siege and since that shard represents &lt;5% of the UO population it's necessary to specify. As above. Agreed on stealing anything not blessed on Siege.
     
  34. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The fact I play Siege has nothing to do with it. If I am on Lake Superior, and find a mark in Felucca, and they have a hunk of black rock in their pack...uninsured. Why shouldn't i be able to nick it? Same goes for many other items, that I will bring to light in the future.

    In regards to not having risk? It's pretty simple to protect your possessions from a thief, just because you choose not to take the time, should not be blamed on a thief...la
     
  35. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The fact I play Siege has nothing to do with it. If I am on Lake Superior, and find a mark in Felucca, and they have a hunk of black rock in their pack...uninsured. Why shouldn't i be able to nick it? Same goes for many other items, that I will bring to light in the future.

    In regards to not having risk? It's pretty simple to protect your possessions from a thief, just because you choose not to take the time, should not be blamed on a thief...la
     
  36. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    In regards to not having risk? It's pretty simple to protect your possessions from a thief, just because you choose not to take the time, should not be blamed on a thief...la

    [/ QUOTE ]
    That is the same lame ass excuses thieves have been making for years to support their no risk way of playing. You can protect yourself with robes and boxes and a whole host of incredible bullcrap just to prevent some bored tool wearing a deathrobe from getting lucky. Those days are over and never coming back.

    As for felucca, anything not blessed should be fair game. No argument.

    <blockquote><hr>

    Same goes for many other items, that I will bring to light in the future.


    [/ QUOTE ]
    Expect disagreement with those as well.
     
  37. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    In regards to not having risk? It's pretty simple to protect your possessions from a thief, just because you choose not to take the time, should not be blamed on a thief...la

    [/ QUOTE ]
    That is the same lame ass excuses thieves have been making for years to support their no risk way of playing. You can protect yourself with robes and boxes and a whole host of incredible bullcrap just to prevent some bored tool wearing a deathrobe from getting lucky. Those days are over and never coming back.

    As for felucca, anything not blessed should be fair game. No argument.

    <blockquote><hr>

    Same goes for many other items, that I will bring to light in the future.


    [/ QUOTE ]
    Expect disagreement with those as well.
     
  38. Guest

    Guest Guest

    My favourite character ever was my old disarm thief.
    Having people afraid to attack for fear of losing their weapon, or running away from me spam casting poison on them with their own nightshade, I will always remember those moments.
     
  39. Guest

    Guest Guest

    My favourite character ever was my old disarm thief.
    Having people afraid to attack for fear of losing their weapon, or running away from me spam casting poison on them with their own nightshade, I will always remember those moments.
     
  40. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    That is the same lame ass excuses thieves have been making for years to support their no risk way of playing. You can protect yourself with robes and boxes and a whole host of incredible bullcrap just to prevent some bored tool wearing a deathrobe from getting lucky.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    And out come the ad hominem attacks. My friend, it is apparent you have lost some loot to thieves in the past. Just because you did not feel like protecting your goods, is no reason for you to start throwing out names...la
     
  41. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    That is the same lame ass excuses thieves have been making for years to support their no risk way of playing. You can protect yourself with robes and boxes and a whole host of incredible bullcrap just to prevent some bored tool wearing a deathrobe from getting lucky.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    And out come the ad hominem attacks. My friend, it is apparent you have lost some loot to thieves in the past. Just because you did not feel like protecting your goods, is no reason for you to start throwing out names...la
     
  42. As I have told you in the past, thieves are never going to be the same as they once were. The devs made the changes on purpose, and I doubt they're ever going to roll them back. Alot of people are happy with things the way they are. I enjoy my theif running around Doom stealing things. I like the way it's designed. And even if I could steal more then just steal-able arties, I doubt I would. I would think a lot of people would say the same thing.
     
  43. As I have told you in the past, thieves are never going to be the same as they once were. The devs made the changes on purpose, and I doubt they're ever going to roll them back. Alot of people are happy with things the way they are. I enjoy my theif running around Doom stealing things. I like the way it's designed. And even if I could steal more then just steal-able arties, I doubt I would. I would think a lot of people would say the same thing.
     
  44. Rico, this is Red the thief from the siege perilous shard.

    The devs have ignored us this long, I don't see us as being a hi priority, esp. since many trammel based players hate our guts.

    I would love to see some new thief upgrades, just don't think it's going to happen man.

    As far as the crown for king thief goes, everyone gets in line behind me, tata [​IMG]!
     
  45. Rico, this is Red the thief from the siege perilous shard.

    The devs have ignored us this long, I don't see us as being a hi priority, esp. since many trammel based players hate our guts.

    I would love to see some new thief upgrades, just don't think it's going to happen man.

    As far as the crown for king thief goes, everyone gets in line behind me, tata [​IMG]!
     
  46. Karthcove

    Karthcove Guest

    Great post!

    Insurance has changed a lot of things. What if they made it where if you successfully steal something the victim loses the insurance value and it is applied to the thieves bank account? Read that somewhere recently and thought that might be a good compromise...

    My brain is getting old, wasn't there a BIG thieves guild on Pacific that everyone wore a yellow hat? Always checked my pack when they came around [​IMG]
     
  47. Karthcove

    Karthcove Guest

    Great post!

    Insurance has changed a lot of things. What if they made it where if you successfully steal something the victim loses the insurance value and it is applied to the thieves bank account? Read that somewhere recently and thought that might be a good compromise...

    My brain is getting old, wasn't there a BIG thieves guild on Pacific that everyone wore a yellow hat? Always checked my pack when they came around [​IMG]
     
  48. Guest

    Guest Guest

    yes, everyone is pointing to reasons why its fun for the thief, but that's not what I'm asking. Where are the people lining up asking to play victim? How is it fun for them? As for player justice, if the thief actually enjoys the risk/thrill of being chased, then there's no justice in hunting them down - it's not a punishment, it's a reward.

    If I were a dev reading this thread, there is nothing yet that would convince me that thieves are a greater good for the game. So far, it reads as "thieves are good for thieves."
     
  49. Guest

    Guest Guest

    yes, everyone is pointing to reasons why its fun for the thief, but that's not what I'm asking. Where are the people lining up asking to play victim? How is it fun for them? As for player justice, if the thief actually enjoys the risk/thrill of being chased, then there's no justice in hunting them down - it's not a punishment, it's a reward.

    If I were a dev reading this thread, there is nothing yet that would convince me that thieves are a greater good for the game. So far, it reads as "thieves are good for thieves."
     
  50. <blockquote><hr>

    In regards to not having risk? It's pretty simple to protect your possessions from a thief, just because you choose not to take the time, should not be blamed on a thief...la

    [/ QUOTE ]

    hince why the devs crippled the thieving profession to it's current form. what's the point of having a system in place that would inconvienence the majority of players more than anything? especially as death is not at all a deterrent to thieves (maybe if thieves recieved stat-loss when brought to justice...), and there were no true safe zones. (at least towns kept you from impending pk doom)

    thieving was unbalanced with too many advantages towards the thief, even the thieves had to admit. it was unfortunate that the devs all but got rid of it, instead of working towards a more reasonable middle ground.