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Top ten reasons Siege Perilous is NOT a Classic Shard.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Megilhir, Nov 10, 2010.

  1. Megilhir

    Megilhir Guest

    10. Homes refresh automatically and do not decay within 10 days if not refreshed.

    9. There is space for houses but other shard homes would decay.

    8. Leather armor competes with metal armor for protection.

    7. GM crafted items are not among the very best available in the game.

    6. Skill gain takes forever.

    5. You cannot Recall.

    4. The population is so low that an expansive community of difference cannot emerge.

    3. Vendor’s won’t buy anything from you…EVER!

    2. Attempts to appease too many players instead of simply loading a classic Pre-Trammel version of the game .

    1. You are only allowed one character, in a misguided attempt to create community through limitation vice intriguing game-play.
     
  2. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Siege has never claimed to be classic...
     
  3. Megilhir

    Megilhir Guest

    You are correct, though many posts seem to have the validity of your statement confused.
     
  4. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    *sighs*
     
  5. Hey... corrected your post for you.
     
  6. Spiritless

    Spiritless Seasoned Veteran
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    So, you created this thread to shoot down an argument that only you have proposed?

    GG.
     
  7. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    What a stupid thread.

    Maybe if the OP actually spent some time actually playing Siege, they'd know half the crap on this list doesn't even make sense.
     
  8. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Yep.

    I've been playing this game since beta. I can tell you that the vast majority of those that leave Siege, do so because the developers do a poor job tailoring new content to the server. When game breaking issues go left unfixed for years... what other than a mass exodus would anyone expect?

    Everyone who played or plays UO looked forward to new content and expansions. Few wanted to forever remain in the year 1999, while many had hoped equal effort would be given to Feluccans and Trammelites. That is not the story history would tell.

    Siege could be and could have been what Ultima Online would look like from a Felucca perspective. Sadly it sits bashed and broken from Developer neglect.

    I suspect the reason why so many look fondly on classic times is because Felucca actually worked as intended. To bad Siege hasn't properly "worked" since AoS was put in.
     
  9. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Those of us who play the shard are fully aware it is not a classic shard, thank you.
    Those of us who play the shard are also aware that it's not just a pvp shard either.
    One might wonder why a peaceful, pvp challenged, granny might choose to play there for the past 4 years or so.
    One might also wonder how those that play there feel about the callous proposal made by some that all we have built and worked for be wiped out in order to turn Siege into a 'classic' shard with no custom housing or the more recent additions.
     
  10. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Petra said it all. I take a lot of flack for my lack of PvP skills. Yet many folks like Petra and myself thrive on Siege. Yes. There is PvP. But that is not all. PvP is just a feature. Certainly not the only one.

    It is the last place crafters can become truly renowned and sought after. Bartering and purchasing is alive and well on Siege. Every person truly matters. As much as they wish to matter.
     
  11. Megilhir

    Megilhir Guest

    It is apparent that communication has failed.

    There are a series of threads and suppositions on these forums (and others) that have equated the release of the Shard of the Dead with Seige P. with a Classic server.

    Hence this post.

    Make a bit more sense now? If not then the thread fails in communication of my considerations. Not a first too be sure.
     
  12. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    So it seems. Siege bashing is so yesterday...
     
  13. But, Kelmo bashing is fun and never goes out of style! :twak:
     
  14. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    *nods* Finally a true statement.
     
  15. Black Sun

    Black Sun Grand Poobah
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    What's to say a classic shard wouldn't suffer the very same problem? Once the novelty wears off it will only be a few die-hards left playing there, I'd be very surprised if that wasn't the case (should a classic shard even ever be made).
     
  16. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    This is bad and you should feel bad.
     
  17. Snakeman

    Snakeman UO Forum Moderator
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    I have to partially disagree here. Tried SP 10 yrs ago, Smith, Miner, Tailor, sought after is right! Got my arse handed to me everytime I tried to gain skill by the great PvP people of SP. Said screw it for 6+ yrs or so, tried it again 3 yrs ago. Same mentality of everyone I ran into, kill the 350 total skill smith in the death robe. Left him again for a yr or so. Went on last Xmas to claim a gift, lovey PvP greeting crew in the Britt Inn once they saw a name pop in. Was able to hide right off, no matter, fire fields all over, reveal being casted. So I logged him off again. Tell me HOW Sp is such a great place to be when the 1st thing anyone wants to do is kick u'r @#%. Great hospitality... Not
    I don't see wiping it for a Classic shard, that would be wrong. Because for the most part people do not totally understand was a Real Classic Shard of Old UO would be (talking pre Pub 10 here, real UO). It could be a nightmare, only a few would really like & enjoy it. IMO it would be less populated then SP after the "newness" wore off in a few months :(
     
  18. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Hrmm... Have you met QZ? Queen Zen? She survives. Petra? Even me? There is a small learning curve.

    Yes, we all get dead... trust me when I say the majority of Siege players are not PvPers. Seriously. Hard to believe but it is true. just pop on the Siege forum and ask.
     
  19. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Function.

    The reason the Siege population is so low is because Siege doesn't function like Felucca should. Players got sick and tired of dealing with imbalances, broken systems and crap that was tailored to shards with insurance and trammel rather than one with full loot and felucca.

    It's not fun playing a broken game.

    If they manage not to mess it up, a classic shard would be fun because it functions properly and the set up is tailored to that system.

    Look at Doom for example. It's been empty for years because winning the lottery (an artifact) is not fun. In a full loot FFA PvP game, items must be obtained and lost readily. Whether from crafting, PvM or PvP. Just like they were "back in the day." On Siege, crafting and PvM do not coincide.

    It's not fun playing a broken game.

    That is why people saw those posts from Siege players. We've been asking for a boost to crafting and monster loot for YEARS now.
     
  20. Vyal

    Vyal Guest

    You don't wipe the shard you use the old server that test was on set it up so it's old school make it stable leave it go. Give it a EM do some events give away some nifty items & it will only gain attention from the free sharders and people will actually only return to the game. Your running Siege that has the whole world and no one ever sees anyone the shard is totally dead and I hate to say it but thats the truth. UO would gain more by making a classic shard and gaining whoever goes.
    But ahh yah Siege is just a dead shard it isn't fun because no one plays it because it's to freaking big for 40 players it most likely will remain that way due to RoT after 70 or 60 don't remember what it was and the only one character per account stuff...
     
  21. Arcus

    Arcus Grand Poobah
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    Who said it was? Whats the point of this thread?
     
  22. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    Nothing like stating the obvious...we never claimed it was a classic shard...we only claim it's better on sp than a prodo shard becuase it's closer to a classic server. Not unless your classic server contains trammel...

    P.S. SP has gotten a lot of ****ty patches that should have NEVEr came to SP but the devs spend no time in making sure our server is unique and free of all the prodo garbage...
     
  23. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    There's no one in Doom because of the stupid faction artifacts, take them out more people would do Doom...preblessed player specific items don't belong on SP...there should be one the Siege Personal Bless Deed and CBD on non important clothes...nothing more nothing less...
     
  24. Megilhir

    Megilhir Guest

    Just to douse myself in fuel and wander into the flames.....


    People! Read and comprehend the thread before you go leaping for divergent conclusions.

    The thread was meant (and I provided corrective adjustment) to illustrate the Seige P. is NOT a classic shard nor should it be considered so.

    There is no intent to deprive the 40 or so avid S.P. players their prize.

    It is to illustrate that those who have (incorrectly) compared a Classic Shard concept to S.P. are misled.

    I too have a character on S.P. Megilhir. A fledgling crafter. When he is seen he is greeted with ..CORP POR - CORP POR - CORP POR and not generally conversation, unless in a guard area. Then it is usually the "XXX is peeking into your bag".

    Do try and keep up.

    Over to the gorillas....
     
  25. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Incorrect on this part. When doom first came out for a long while it was packed everyday because arts where extremely difficult to get. When you had something worth alot of hell of gold and very useful that not many compare to. Not only that because it was so difficult to get even having one made you semi unique. I remmeber running arount with my hat of magi not many pvp stood there ground when they saw me wearing it they just left if they didn't feel they were prepared even at champ spawns.

    After the loot tables where changed to better drops and finaly to automaticaly drops if you havent received one the market became saturated. Lowering the price on such items and increasing the availability. Doom started to become empty as more and more received there reward and the gold received from selling it decreased for the amount of effort put in.
    Then cursed arties came around so less pvm needed the originals furthering lowering the want. Finaly the doom coffen was faction arties made it so easy to get improved versions of the most powerful arties with practicaly no effort. Hell I had all the faction arties practicaly as soon as the change made.

    If that wasn't enough they buried doom under holy ground with imbuing.
    Pretty much players didn't kill doom the dev's and those everyone should have everything people with no work killed doom.

    RIP DOOM.... You have being purified.
     
  26. John Connelly

    John Connelly Journeyman
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    Top ten reasons an apple is NOT a banana.

    1. It is red, a banana is yellow
    2. An apple is round, a banana is shaped like *thinks a moment* a banana.
    3. Who said they were?
    4. Getting bored with this.
    5. Stupid thread.
    6. A banana is yellow. Did I say that already?
    7. *falls asleep*
    8. zzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzz
    9. Can't think of any more.
    10. An orange is orange, but it's not a banana (or an apple).
     
  27. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    This is the negative side, you could of done the opposite, Joined New, Had a perfectly safe place to train at. (And most likely Safe from Pkers with New Tag) Been given 110s For the skills you needed, Set up with a Viable "Low End" Suit.

    All of us have had bad experiences on Siege, The ones that stayed just had tougher skin and less of the "Carebare" quality of todays Gamer. (Hell i was Red and Factions with 70s Skill maybe 1 Week Into Siege when I first started.)
     
  28. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Hello.

    I realize you're talking about production shards, but please understand the topic being discussed is Siege Perilous.
     
  29. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Doom wasn't being used for years before faction artifacts.

    People stopped doing doom because they got sick of spending oodles of time there without reward.
     
  30. Symma

    Symma Certifiable
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    These threads make me sad. The people saying how 'dead' siege is haven't even been on it for years.

    I'd challenge those people to come on to Siege for a few months and then based their views on actual experience.

    I wouldn't change the essence of Siege for anything. Its a shard I love and a community, at times :p, that I'm proud to play with. No other shard can offer you quite a unique gaming experience as Siege.

    Guess we'll still get users who base their 'opinion' on one or two visits years ago :(
     
  31. Ls Jax Ls

    Ls Jax Ls Visitor

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    The #1 reason Siege is not a classic shard:

    There is no such thing as a classic shard.
     
  32. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    You play siege? Hmmm I may have to reactivate my accounts...:heart:



    Kidding :p
     
  33. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Run Petra!!!!
    hehe
    Siege P is not A Classic shard. Period end of quote.
    Serioulsy Siege was created by the Dev to give advanced players a more challenging place to play UO.

    The last Dev team made waves that they were developing a way for more players to place homes on shard that wouldnt effect the other houseing, but it got derailed as alot of other things went wrong in that time period of uo history.

    To be honest the Dev should lift the houseing restraint on all shards. I serioulsy doubt they would loose much if not gain more $$ by it. I have 42 active accounts and I looked at what I got and what I could do without.. it wasnt much!!! It might even have players keep accounts on more then cycling them to be able to aford what they got giveing EA more cash.
    As for Reds?
    I met the most charming gentilman other day on Siege .. he was a red player we talked and I was very impressed with his play. I have lived on Siege from day one.. that said, with 42 active accounts and about 37 chars on the shard total.. I think I got 2 fighters total and they are pvm - not pvp.... now what does that tell you?
    Siege is NOT PVP central....
    If you want heavy pvp go to atlantic.. But if you want a close knit comunity Siege is a nice place to have fun. Anyone who knows Siege would know my chars. Calvin Kline of (X), Giorgio Armani GM of (X), Alanis (X), Jane Goodall, Void I could go on, all have been active on shard over the years.

    I dont recomend the changes wished for by the op.

    Siege is not a classic shard by any means. I was there in the beginning of UO, in no way is Siege like that era you so wish for. That was a time you can no longer make its the past history of UO. You had to be there to know it. Alas its long gone to the anals of time.
     
  34. Sunchicken

    Sunchicken Guest

    PSHH i never cast corp por...


    You know what i would like to see more than a classic server is a normal server like atlantic or great lakes, but make them where you can travel to all shards on red or blues. The only place your really safe (taking for granted your not an idiot) is in a guard zone. This would exclude theivery (spelling).

    Pretty much SP with like 5 siege blessed items.
     
  35. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    No, no, people like Megilhir are right, its all just giant gangs of reds crowded around every exit to every town, just waiting to "corp por" (you know the most commonly used spell...uhh 8 years ago) as many noobs as possible.

    Honestly though whenever I read posts like "the second I stepped on siege I was ganked!" I really have to doubt their validity. Its just not a reality and really never was. There have been a few notable jerks through out the decade, but its not a common theme among players.

    I am also a non pvper, for sake of clarity.
     
  36. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Might be a siege tread but you mentioned doom. Which this also had the same effect on. Mostly the faction arties for siege. But as you know when it comes to topics people who play siege exclusively always place there views and opinions and wanted nerfs on a general concept for all changes from every shard even though the problem is siege only. The dev only see that people are complaining about it they don't realise the problem is only siege related and therefore send the nerf hammer to all shards.
     
  37. Megilhir

    Megilhir Guest

    Goodness me!! $420+ monthly...looking for a kept man?

    I am NOT recommending or wishing any changes, let alone any to S.P. I am stating S.P. is not a Classic shard and people should not view it as such.

    As was I, well 1999.

    I am not advocating or wishing for any shard format. Merely making an observation of what S.P. is NOT, nor should be.

    I was, and on opening night for S.P. too actually.

    I agree completely.




    Besides I am partial to the Storm moniker: Stormguard and Stormwitch are two favorites.
     
  38. Megilhir

    Megilhir Guest

    Now you of all people, Uvtha, disappoint. I figured you for someone who read complete posts and understood the general thrust of most.

    And Corp Por, though not the most used spell, is eminently recognizable for the context of the arguement. Surely this did not escape you?

    Goodness me.
     
  39. Megilhir

    Megilhir Guest

    Main concept, no other.
     
  40. Adrianas

    Adrianas Sage
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    I have found it interesting how many people like to talk about Siege who do not currently play on it. Like they have a right to comment. Siege today is not what Siege was at the beginning - nor even a couple of years ago.

    For those who think that there are only 40 people who play Siege, or that those who play Siege are only interested in killing others, obviously these people were not around on Siege when the Halloween event went live. Not only were there a *lot* more named jack-o-lanterns spawning than 40, but everyone was running around picking up those JoL *and* working very hard to give those JoL to the players whose name was on them - even Diablo's. ;) And for free I might add. I might also add the almost all of them found their home. (And I know this because of the number that I handed off to characters - red characters and blue characters.)

    Another thing which is greatly misunderstood - there are also a lot of non-U.S. players who play Siege. Not all of them speak English, so they don't spend time on the boards here. There is a large number of them who are never represented on this board. (I know this because I am in a guild and I get to listen in Vent to the one German who speaks English - but then might speak in German to the ones who cannot speak English.) If I had to venture a guess, I would say we have at least 10 - 20 Germans who are members of GIL. Whose leader is British I might add.

    I left Nappa to play on Siege full time. I dropped my house in Nappa this past weekend so I could place a second house on Siege. Leave us alone. Go play on whatever shard you wish - even Siege, should you desire.

    I will say that if you come to Siege and have not played here before (or even if you have, by the sound of some of the posts above), you need to start with the NEW guild and learn how to survive. I have a full-fledged crafter on Siege and, dare I say it, I have not died yet. (I'm sure I will someday, but when that happens, oh well, it will happen. Life will go on afterwards.)

    But I shake my head when I see people trying to talk about Siege who do not play on the shard now. (And I do recognize the number of Siege players above who have tossed in comments.) The shard is quirky and different, yes. But it is not a "dead" shard as so many would have us believe. You don't see people on Siege because many of them live in stealth mode. Doesn't mean we're not there.

    One last thing - I do not mean this post here to be a downcheck on anyone and you will note that I did not name anyone specifically (well, except for Diablo, eh eh). It's just that I tend to see the same theme multiple times - that Siege is dead, that no one plays on Siege, that no one can go there without being ganked, that it's not the way it used to be (of course it isn't). I do not see players of Nappa or Lake Austin or any other shard having to defend the fact that they exist the way they do - and yet for some reason it seems that Siege gets 'poked at' a lot. IMHO.
     
  41. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    This all the way.
     
  42. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    I have no idea what you're saying or even trying to say. I'm talking about Doom on Siege and the state of PvM on Siege. PvM is a flawed idea on every other server anyway. You get the artifact or item and there's no incentive for you to go back and get it again.

    BTW - I play both Siege and Atlantic. I see this game through a lens that most do not.
     
  43. Babble

    Babble Guest

    No one claims siege is a 'classic' shard
    :)
     
  44. HD2300

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    Yes Siege is not a Classic shard but it is the closest type ruleset to a Classic shard, and that basically tells you all you need to know about how successful a Classic shard will be long term, especially when you can play accurate Classic freeshards for FREE. imo without insurance many characters will have stealth which severely limits PvP.

    UO really needs a fun focused super PvP shard (like a UO version of COD, Battlefield, CS), and the fact that Siege players are resistant to change, most probably means EA will most probably need to create a new shard ala SOTD with a focus on fun and community instead of a shard of stealthers.
     
  45. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Siege is not even close to a classic shard. We are Siege.
     
  46. Snakeman

    Snakeman UO Forum Moderator
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    ""This is the negative side, you could of done the opposite"" Now honestly, did I really have a say in not being killed.....? You couldn't get a word out before gray sky's, all you would see from your attacker is "Noob, noobie, woos & a few others I won't repeat here, but we've all seen them. Went about my own business working my crafting skills, no carebear quality do I see in that. You play SP as I can see to Pk, you admit that by the statement (Hell i was Red and Factions with 70s Skill maybe 1 Week Into Siege when I first started.) I didn't play for that reason & some others don't. It's not our play style. To call it a "carebear" attitude is bs. To me carebear is one wanting all their way, calling a GM on every gd little thing that goes wrong in game as some do. I see real carebear clowns call a GM because they want a whole area to play/fight/farm in. I've seen it in Destard, Deciet, WW lair, any mini arti/Tok drops or the special/live event scenes. Heck look at the Swoop area when they 1st came onto the scene, how many players would P & M page a GM because someone took or hit "their" kill! I was here you can't hit it... it's mine! Saw this many times from some. Now that's a carebear to me. You can't criticize someone & call them a "carebear" just because they don't like to Pk / PvP or go to fel. Tough skinned has nothing to do with it imo, it's a game. No one should need Tough Skin to play a game, they play it to relax, have some fun, enjoyment & make some new online friends.
    BTW, when I started 11 yrs ago there were no such things as adding to your skill with power scrolls. That came many years later, GM was it & what you would loot off monsters.
    Siege is Siege, it's no Classic Shard. Even tho it's not my play style shard in NO way should it be wiped & replaced as a Classic Shard.
     
  47. Babble

    Babble Guest

    With only 2 types of shards, if you except the holiday shards, that is not really an argument
    And what UO NEEDS is EA's business.
     
  48. yanaki2

    yanaki2 Sage
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    i know ill get flamed for this but all the issues boil down to one simple fact. non consentual pvp is the real cause of all of these problems.its why most people moved to trammel to begin with, its why most would not do any of the activities the devs have developed over the years to entice people to come back to felucia. its why many wont play seige. ask any gm who was around pre trammel and listen to what they say, they recieved thousands of complaints a week because of non consentual pvp, not land issues, they could have easily opened up trammel and kept the basic pvp ruleset in place. the new chat system just confirms this moreso. listen to the people who use the system, almost every sentence is " yeah i kicked your noob butt" or " this will teach you to try and spawn here".

    i hear alot of people complain about the blessed items and such. i wonder how many of those people would agree to let blessed status only work if you are killed by a player and if your killed by a monster the monsters are the only ones that can loot it and the only one whom can get it back is the person its blessed for? somehow i think 90% of the people would still complain.

    tho not all but most of the more vocal people asking and complaining about this are probably the same people whom if you met in fel would kill you just because they can rather then even giving you the time of day.

    to further this, take this set of wow numbers for you, about a year ago blizzard let it be known that less then 5% of the total subscriber base had any charicters on a pvp server... hmmm...something to consider. and you can pvp on any main server if you want. you have battlegrounds, and if you dare you can go into many a aria and flag yourself for pvp
    (yes this is called consentual pvp and is quite popular)

    if done properly consentual pvp would solve quite a few issues.

    just my 2 cents
     
  49. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Even if they went ahead with a "Classic Shard," this is not something they should ever re-implement. The reason it was put in was for the convenience of their customers, and it has nothing to do with the definition of a "Classic Shard" in any form.

    As they would if you placed a house on Great Lakes while you had one on Atlantic, or on Baja if you were on Wakoku. Again, this shouldn't change, and has nothing to do with the definition of a "Classic Shard." This was implemented so that players would actually, you know, choose a shard and not cause huge chunks of land to be claimed by one player.

    Err... there was never a significant enough difference to care one way or another, though, of course, before Meditation came to game, it didn't matter if you had full metal or not.

    Nor were they ever. They gave slightly better than level 1 magical gear (I forget the five tiers, but GM was either equivalent to or slightly better than the worst of the magical gear).

    Interesting, if extremely skewed, view of history. Skill gain ALWAYS took forever, and in fact, in the oldest of days, you didn't have the .X to tell you that you were even moving in skill gain. You could look at 87 skill forever before you finally hit 88, and you had absolutely no clue whether you were advancing or not. If anything, skill gain was slower, and perceived to be extremely slower.

    Not the biggest of differences.

    No difference would emerge on a "Classic Shard" either. You're fooling yourselves if you believe the "victims" of the Classic era would ever sign up to be the cows at the proverbial slaughter.

    Minor inconvenience. Very few people ever sell things to vendors anyway. Now, if we're talking about Classic era prior to the gold rush of duping, then, yes, selling things is probably necessary, but I suspect in this modern era, the pre-gold rush economy wouldn't last long because people know the game inside out.

    Incorrect, but you're welcome to your opinion.

    Which, ironically, is a strength of Siege Perilous, and which was a boon to the early days of Star Wars Galaxies as well. When you have one character, you're responsible for your behavior because people come to know you. It lessens the grief potential because word about you travels quick. If anything, this was one of the wisest decisions when implementing the Siege Perilous ruleset.

    However, I agree, this definitely is different in a significant way from a Classic Shard. Of course, the issue then becomes all of the other dynamics of a Classic Shard, which include the number of people playing, learning the game, and getting into niche templates -- where crafters played crafters, not everyone had one on their account, and crafting was viable.

    The largest reason that crafting is no longer viable has nothing to do with the era of the game (Classic vs. Modern) but rather the fact that the number of people who have crafters on their accounts is significantly larger than back in the day. Today it wouldn't take long for that to pervade a Classic Shard, thus ruining one of the very strengths that some people perceive would make a Classic Shard "better."

    In short, the rose-colored view of UO from that era wouldn't hold up to the ideals that some people believe it would.
     
  50. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    If Felucca had actually worked as intended, Trammel would never have come into existence. Even Richard Garriot and Raph Koster have come out stating that they underestimated the negative aspects of a player-run justice system (ie: the original ruleset).

    It's no coincidence that UO enjoyed its greatest number of players post Renaissance, and that's keeping in mind that the horrible way Trammel was implemented ripped communities asunder left and right.