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Tormented Mino spawn is broken

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Sarphus, Jan 31, 2011.

  1. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    The tormented minotaur spawn is broken on a design level and really needs to be reworked. Generally, arties from champ spawns are extremely rare and not a justifiable reason to spend the time doing a spawn. In the case of this spawn I assume the extremely rare artie drop chance is the only reason to do the spawn.

    In the case of the tormented mino spawn, you work a boring and easy spawn and are rewarded with the spawning of several extremely powerful minotaurs that are completely unbalanced in risk vs reward. I like challenging mobs. I do not like mobs that 1-shot you (these do). If you can't design a mob to be challenging without making it 1-shot people, you have failed on a design level.

    In the case of tormented minos, I got 1-shotted with > 70 in all resists (stone form) at the same time my friend was also 1-shotted standing next to me. Prior to that we each got 1-shotted at least 3 times each. So basically we worked the spawn for about 2 hours having no idea that we had already spawned the champion. Then when we went to fight the champion and got repeatedly 1-shotted by his guardians.

    It was one of the lowlights of experiences I've had in any MMO.

    I assumed the reason that no one works that spawn was that the experience isn't fun and the RvR is out of balance. I didn't realize there was also a factor of random insta-death on top of that. Fix it please.
     
  2. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

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    One of the first players to face Meraktus recounts what happened.

    Yes it was true. It first started out on Saturday when I received a message from a friend with a link to a Japanese website which showed detailed yet poorly translated information of the Minotaur Labrynith champion spawn.
    So the following day around 4 PM PST myself; Lord Braska and another friend Kerridwen went to the dungeon and started making our way to the heart of the dungeon killing off the spawn as we go. Slowly but surely we made it to the center building and explored around and unlike other spawns this one doesn't have an altar. At this time we were joined with our other friend B Krohon and another person who managed to get past all the spawns.
    We then decided to start killing of the spawn to see if anything happened. Eventually we got a message on our screen saying something along the line of 'A minotaur captain barks an order to his fellow scouts, "Aid the others! Kill the invaders!"' (There was another message before this, but I can't remember what it was.) With every minotaur felled the message repeated. Few more people managed to get in then. After quiet awhile more we finally got the last message saying, 'A minotaur captain bellows, "Meraktus has arrived!"' and on the top floor of the central building Meraktus the Minotaur (The boss of the dungeon) and four Tormented Minotaur spawned.
    At this time many others managed to get to the center and joined the battle. The Tormented Minotaurs can move pretty fast as I watched someone on foot being chased by one, I would have to say, half way through the dungeon. Alot of us got a nasty suprise though as it seems that both the Tormented and Meraktus have an area effect attack similar to Rikktor, like an earthquake, but I don't recall hearing the sound. It was much more powerful too the closer you are to the creatures for I noticed a few people that were close to one of them we're dropped to near death or even killed out right, myself abit farther away was dropped to about half health. Earlier on about 4 of us were killed standing next to one, luckily B Krohon went inside the building to rez Kerridwen when it happened, or else we would have to wait for the next living person to come and rez us. After awhile we dropped all the Tormented Minotaurs and got Meraktus back into the garden area of the central building which a combined attack brought him down close to death, before he unleashed an area attack after area attack nearly wiping us all out. We all retreated briefly into the building to get rezzed and as soon as I was up and running I ran outside with Shadowfang my Cu Sidhe and had him sink his sharp teeth onto the bloodied fur of Meraktus healing him like mad as they fought each other. Soon I was joined by two other Cu Sidhe's of my friends and several EV's from the other people with greater heals, e-bolts and such being chanted in the background, and not too soon after Meraktus fell at our feet.
    I guess the one thing that throws most people off is the belief that it would be like all the other champion spawns in which there is a central altar that would normally show you the progress of the spawn. Which is not so here, and unlike the other champs, there is no new creatures popping up with each new level. You basically keep killing all the minotaurs until you get each of the 3 messages I mentioned before.
    This is definitely not part of the Inu the Crone quest, and I think its something that was just overlooked by most people until it was done by us. It was right in the open this whole time, but seeing no real profit gained from just killing minotaurs when you have Miasma spawning near the entrance no one bothered with it til now.
    My thanks goes out to Lady Kerridwen of MLD and B Krohon of EK. two of the greatest and skilled hunting partners I know of along side my in-game wife Lady Elysian Bothwell. And another thanks to B Krohon who gave us the info about the monsters! You guys are awesome!
    - Lord Braska, Bane of the Peerless (C&E)
    Source: http://boards.stratics.com/php-bin/uo/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=6579383

    Unique to this champ loot.
    Subdue [Replica]
    Weight: 5 Stones
    Spell Channeling
    Hit Mana Leech 100%
    Hit Chance Increase 10%
    Swing Speed Increase 20%
    Damage Increase 50%
    Use Best Weapon Skill
    Physical Damage 100%
    Weapon Damage 15 - 18
    Weapon Speed 3.5s
    Strength Requirement 45
    Two-Handed Weapon (Scythe)Skill Required: Swordsmanship
    Durability: 255 / 255

    Large Vase
    Small Vase
    Minotaur Statue

    Royal Guard Survival Knife
    The Most Knowledge Person
    Oblivion's Needle

    Little UOGuide research came up with the above in a few minutes time. The way this champ works should be the template for any drop they put ingame that is extreemly useful. Not going to see a video of someone soloing this champ. And you right "the risk vs reward" does not match. Again things plugged into the game by the inexperienced.

    This champ shows how important in a group the player that is the fallback guy is. Must have healer / rez point when fighting a creature that can and will kill you. Last two I was part of I had no rights on the boss, my choice. There needs to be a way that earns a player points towards a boss drop for every rez while in a boss's area. Looting rights after 3 rezs if no damage was done to the boss. Chat calls for 4x120 bard mage to back up a group when fighting the boss. Discording and Peacing while staying no more then 15 spaces away. Really how fun would Styggy or Infusion be without that rez point down there? Why not have a way to reward a team player that didn't draw blood.
     
  3. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    Yeah, we found this article and managed to see first hand how the spawn works.

    I was making the point that insta-kill moves on mobs is poor design and that the rewards off that spawn are not even remotely in line with the difficulty.

    It is badly designed content and imo should be fixed.
     
  4. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    Welcome back to UO. Please, watch your step; earthquakes do quite a lot of damage ;p.

    My guild completed the first Meraktus on Chesapeake, something I knew about in advance due to being in the ML Beta. We probably completed three or four before they added replicas, and we did them because of the challenge. Now there is the incentive of an item, in addition to the challenge.

    I'm not entirely sure how the damage of a tormented minotaur works, or how much damage they are capable of doing. However, they are probably the only thing in UO that I would not fight outside of that spawn. When EMs spawn them, I usually avoid that mess, lol. To kill them, though, all you need to do is isolate them, use a dragon or a few colossus, then step back. You have to be careful, given the small area of the spawn, which is perhaps the most challenging aspect of the region.

    People do solo both the Styg and the Effusion. It's about having the right template. Stygian does not one-hit kill, it does a firebreath response attack and an EQ like spell. If they time right, you'll die, but I've managed to use a healing stone to heal through it. Takes some practice.

    For a group, Stygian is all about using hail storm. A group of mystics, or a mix group of archers and mystics, can take it down easy. Of course, for an archer, you just have to be careful about having a bow with max range, and everyone should have gheals, gstrs, purple petals, etc. For Effusion, a group of Cu Sidhes or GDrags work great, just have to make sure to attack the summons when they come up. Or, you can use a bard, and provo stuff. Both the Stygian and Effusion spawn in large regions; it's possible for a large group of people to die at once at the Stygian, if they are poorly managed and in range of its area spell, but neither boss is that difficult when compared to the area restrictions of the Tormented Minotaur spawn. I mean hell, the Styg even has escape sparkles ... lol.

    If EA redesigns Merkatus, I'd hope they'd consider making the whole dungeon area larger. It's a rather small "Labyrinth," after all.
     
  5. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    Meraktus ideas and faults can be separated into a couple of different groups. The first group is things which would be nice to have associated with it, and the second group is things that really make the spawn not worth doing.

    In the first group, I would put the reward for finishing. For an hour of work (it doesn't matter how many people you have, it can not be completed faster due to spawn rates), you get a slim chance at... nothing spectacular. From a merchant perspective, nothing the minotaur drops is really worth an hour of your time. From an adventurer's perspective, it isn't any better. The only reason to finish it is to be able to say you have.

    In the second category, the fact that the spawn is intensely dull tops that list. The minotaur spawn so slowly that if you have more than two people fighting, no matter the template, at least one person will spend the entire time watching the other two fight. It is for this reason that the spawn never takes less than an hour to finish.

    Somewhere inbetween are the extreme earthquake attacks by the tormented minotaur.

    This can be countered by getting the TM's one at a time, and killing them individually in a place where there's room to run away when you get earthquaked. The only template I've had real success with is the greater dragon-tamer template, and I still lost the dragon 1-2 times vs. Meraktus itself. (Granted, that's solo. In a group of two, we had it down to an artform)

    It is, perhaps, the most difficult boss in-game, especially if you happen to bring out all the baddies at once... at which point it becomes practically impossible (and exactly why I never bring groups there any more... an hour of boredom followed by repeated death with no chance of otherwise is NOT FUN).
     
  6. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    The move isn't an instant-kill. It only becomes so when 2-3 do it close together. If you separate them then you can take them down.
     
  7. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    While forced player interaction/playstyle is 'as designed', they never said you'd get a reward for doing so. It's up to the Group to share w/ the others. When Magincia was falling into rubble, people shared with the healers who stayed near the dock - same thing, just with a larger group. I wouldn't look for any changes.

    Thanks for the story tho, interesting read.
     
  8. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    I did meraktus in solo many times, it's not that hard... stygian dragon is harder and corgul/scalis are much more harder ;)