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Total UO monthly subscriptions

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Paps, Apr 12, 2010.

  1. Paps

    Paps Journeyman
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    last i heard there were roughly 75-k of them.
    however this was 2 years ago.
    around half were asian shard players.
    does anyone have current up to date info on this.
    or is EA trying to hide the fact this game is pulling numbers comparable to
    its first year in prodo.

    any real info on this would be appreciated
    [read opinions not welcome,just facts/figures please]
    thank you.
     
  2. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    There is no 'real info' EA don't release it, and haven't for many years. All we have in the way of real info is a declaration from one of the devs some time ago that the site that produces the graphs (whose name escapes me atm) is totally wrong and working on sheer guesswork.
     
  3. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    We have no way of knowing whether the dev was right either, there's no way of knowing either way. UO could be heading for disaster, it might not be, we will never know until the day EA suddenly axes the game out of the blue.
     
  4. ProZac

    ProZac Seasoned Veteran
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    EA only says numbers when they are bragging. Otherwise, they keep quiet. They were loud about Warhammer subs until it started to decrease, then they became quiet as a mouse about it. Makes sense obviously. I think if UO players knew current active North American subs it would crush the game pretty quick.

    If anything I'd say one of the biggest red flags is how long the game actually keeps dev staff over the past few years. They have seemed to have a deep passion for the game and left with almost no real explanation to work on new MMO projects/with new companies. Either EA is an awful company to work for or they have a good idea of the fate of UO. Or both.
     
  5. Having player an EA online failed game before UO, I know the subs for that game were below 5000 before they pulled the plug. Even then, they gave us a 6 month notice to enjoy before it went bye bye. Also, they offered UO or the Simms........obviously, I chose UO.

    So, I think it's safe to say, UO, with it's game time history, is fairly safe. As stated before, UO has a depth no other game can touch.
     
  6. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    I'll say this for what seems the thousandth time, both here and in regard to other MMO's. People start saying an MMO is dying, and ridiculous threads like this one keep getting posted, starting before the game is released, and continuing until the day the game actually dies.

    What I see in game tells me UO might not be doing the best it has ever done, but it is doing just fine. Of course the doomsayers think it is fashionable to be doomsayers so they will spew a whole bunch of baseless "facts" and manufactured figures to support their fashionable prophecies of doom.

    Suffice to say I'm just about 100% certain that I'll be a able to look up this thread in a year or two, assuming it hasn't been locked or deleted, and say, "I told you so..." ;)
     
  7. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    No one has said that UO is about to die.
     
  8. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest


    http://www.mmogchart.com/
    I believe the Dev simply said that they didn't know where they got their numbers from. I know they made no comment as to the accuracy of it, I was looking for that.

    They show UO at around 75K. That's from late 2007.
    They claim that they only use sources that are reliable, such as official postings, reports (stocks, etc.) and as a last resort insider info.
    The 60K figure was speculation by poster before SA started drawing in people, which was before it was released due to anticipation.

    Right now, UO has had 2 source bumps that I can think of.
    1) SA
    2) UO is talked about a lot outside of their circles. On message boards for gamers. And there's a lot of gamers who are tired of the old level grinds. I think there's some hits from that too.
    But recent losses appear to be going on too. Less houses, less vendors, etc.

    Hard to say right now where they are with the numbers.
     
  9. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    By the way, they show RunScape with around 2,200,000 subs. UO's a better all around game than that, by far (IMO). This is why I have said that I think UO can draw big numbers if they go "worldly" and fix problems, get rid of AoS items and PS's and the Trammel/Fel split. They don't have to do away with Trammel so much as make the same rules for both servers. It'd just be better to start over with a "classic" shard, and not have the inflation problem as well.
     
  10. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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  11. BajaElladan

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    "IF," you are recommending the Trammel rules be added to replace the Felucca rules, I agree. Otherwise, your recommendation would surely end the existence of UO.

    For any who desperately want to know such subscription information, I recommend you buy some EA stock which would likely allow you to obtain such info.


     
  12. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    The majority of the dev changes were lay off, the people didn't quit, or the fact that they said either move from one ocean to another, or quit, might also be another reason. Developers leaving is never an indication of how good a game/company is doing. They could have simply been offered a better position elsewhere or even within the same company.
     
  13. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    I simply ask for proof. And before you come with the standard response, try to remember subs were not dropping before they released Tram. They were in fact posting numbers back then, subs did not drop until well after the release of trammel, basically meaning the game could have done fine if they left the game that way, they changed it for the same reasons they always change this game, another game did it. Follow the history of UO they only made changes like this when another game did it like that. What was it back then? EQ I think was the game that separated the pvp from pvm and so UO copied, then there was the massive surge of Item based games, we got aos. WoW did races we got elves.

    I have to say tho, people are happy in their world now....But if they realized there is about a 4:1 (maybe even higher) ratio of pkers (keep in mind not all people who pvp are pkers) vs normal players perhaps they would realize the pkers don't have much chance in the world they are asking for.
     
  14. Babble

    Babble Guest

    Last you heard UO had 150k accounts and half of them in asia.
    With the assumption that on average an UO player has 2 accounts you can get to the number of 40.000 western players and 40.000 Asian players.

    That sounds pretty optimistic though reasonable enough. Guesses would be that UO has 25.000 western players so about 50.000 western accounts.

    If you want to know though just visit the shards and count houses. Each house should be an account, with some error margin because of non decaying houses.
     
  15. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    :thumbup1:

    I think even WoW has some doomsayers and that game is in no danger, lol.
     
  16. Babble

    Babble Guest

    Actually I am not even sure wow has peaked yet... they redo their whole game contentwise ... something UO should have done years ago
     
  17. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Also some error magins for accounts with no houses. And that would be alot of work wouldn't it haha.
     
  18. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest


    But the content is always just as bland :(
     
  19. Babble

    Babble Guest

    If I compare wow and UO .. then no .. wow wins
    Better itemization, you know what rewards you get for what tasks so no insanely stupid RNG.
    Quests that tell whole stories and actually it seems they introduced something which will be big in mmos soon. That when you complete some quests those Mosters or so are gone for you and personalizes gameplay.

    Uo still wins for the roleplay possiblities, but wow is the better game for fun and achievements.
     
  20. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    I'm afraid you are pretty far off. Lets suppose the 50K number for western servers is right. There's, what, 15 US and Euro servers? That'd be a little over 3K per server. Servers and all the internet costs are expensive. How close are we to having servers start to be closed and trying to condense players into what's left over? And how many accounts would simply close up if that happened?

    No, I'm afraid UO is getting dangerously close to being in real trouble. If any game comes out that is similar to UO, things are going to start to get real dicey. And believe me, there are games on the way. One is in beta, full 3D, and has been described by other testers as a "sandbox" style of game that they enjoyed "more than I thought I would". As before, I won't post the name or link here, that's just not right. But a little looking around at MMORPG.com can lead you to it fairly quickly. But from looking at the site and posts, I'd say it's enough different from UO that a fixed up UO should do quite well competing. But changes need to be made, and time is most assuredly running out.
     
  21. Guido_LS

    Guido_LS Seasoned Veteran
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    Vanguard initially *failed* because SOE rushed it out the door, in an anything BUT ready for primetime mode, and had a set of system requirements that were out of reach for a lot of people. As of now, it actually has more subs than Everquest, but is still slightly behind EQ2. So no, I'd say failure is probably a very wrong choice of words.

    As far as it being a mimic, pretty much everything out here today is a mimic, including UO. Too many people seem to think that UO was the first - it wasn't. It's not even the longest running MMO out there now - number 6, at best. And contrary to the former Lum the Mad's omission, Vanguard actually has the deepest crafting and housing out of any MMO currently on the market.

    So that was probably a bad choice of examples...
     
  22. Babble

    Babble Guest

    UO is so old and cheap that I guess it is profitable down to 5000 accounts if you stop giving gm support.

    And not one but I think up to 5 sandbox/UO style games are in development these days.

    Mortal/Xsyon/Craft of Gods?/Earthrise/Dawntide and probably some others trying to fill the niche which none other game except eve has at the moment.

    Darkfall went for the pvp crowd, though if they continue to enhance the game and one day use a skill limit it might be the real new UO.
     
  23. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Oh I don't know. A bit of an extreme measure. How many pages over real issues that cannot be solved by other players help for a simple look at the FAQ are actually sent?
     
  24. Babble

    Babble Guest

    Just meant that running the Uo servers should be pretty cheap.
    You can host a decent freeshard for $100 a month... so UO for EA should not be that expensive. Damn GMs want extra pay though, so not sure how many accounts you need to cover it. They could hire some indian guys for that, or just let the warhammer GMs lose :p
     
  25. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Wait, I thought our GMs were from India, j/k :p
     
  26. Free if you know what you are doing... ;)
     
  27. Lost-Soul

    Lost-Soul Guest

    Wait, we have GMs? I thought all we had were canned responces.
     
  28. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    You need a dedicated server, hardware updates, hardware location, admins, gm's, event managers, writers, web staff, dedicated fiber connection, etc. etc. It costs a heck of a lot more to have a real UO retail server. Not to mention cost to have a dev team.
     
  29. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    It is clearly between the lines in this post, and there has been more than one thread like this with more than one post like this recently. They are all hogwash and pure speculation...

     
  30. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - Some of the proof you seek surely poofed with MyUO boards and/or the loss of posts on Stratics a few years ago. It might still exist in the uo.com archives.

    The proof was stated several times by the development team and the reality truly seemed to solidly back their reason up (imo & from what I remember reading from others during that time). Yes, subscriptions did seem to rise until after Trammel. The reason for that is what they claimed and was noticed all along:
    churn

    See, UO kept losing a good amount of subscriptions pre-Trammel (many of which gave an exact reason on their exit survey as to why they left... something that was also shared by Devs. to be a reason why a significant change was necessary).
    However UO kept gaining more than it was losing,
    which is the simple explanation for why a line graph of subscriptions does not give a true recount
    of what was going on and why Pre-Trammel had to be swiftly changed (sure other games might have had something to do with it, but UO had the facts in front of them prior to EQ that proved they had better make a change if they wanted to see subscriptions continue to rise... at least they stated as much many times over the years, as I know many besides me can clearly recall).

    Call up an old developer and ask them, if you will consider that to be sufficient proof. Otherwise perhaps search around with at least one keyword being: churn. I bet it is still out there if you really want to find that proof. My proof is in my head because I spent a lot of time reading and chatting with the Devs. about this subject at that time.
     
  31. Tek

    Tek Seasoned Veteran
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    hard to get legal bandwidth for free
     
  32. Tek

    Tek Seasoned Veteran
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    Not that hard - most Idoc hunters could do a house count on a shard or more fairly easy
     
  33. Tek

    Tek Seasoned Veteran
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    any idea if there is a site that does what mmogchart did? its been outdated for years, I was looking last week for some up to date mmo subscript numbers.
     
  34. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Also, if you look at all the dips in that MMO site's charts for UO, compared to a timeline of other MMOs (not their chart numbers), you will see that all of the pre-2005 dips coincide exactly with the Open Betas and Releases of major MMO competitors.
     
  35. J.B.

    J.B. Journeyman
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    Agreed But Money talks.
     
  36. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    Oh no, not again....
    The end is near.
     
  37. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    In the news on the front page of that site, they mention a site that watches sales of all sorts of businesses that said they were going to start updating games too.
    You have to sign up for access, which I haven't done yet. I have my doubts, because the game companies are guarding this info because it doesn't look too good for most. (And some, primarily the FTP with optional subs, might well be misleading. That would make actual hard info bad for their tactics.)
     
  38. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Edit; naw, never mind. Have your own opinion and ridicule me for mine. Edit again; hehe, never mind.
     
  39. Guido_LS

    Guido_LS Seasoned Veteran
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    A compelling read. And it looks like Ms. Cleo wasn't all that accurate 6 years ago, either... yep - this essay was from 04...

    All things eventually come to an end. UO will as well. I don't want it to be tomorrow, or next week, or next year, or even in the next 10 years. But I won't be shocked nor amazed when it does happen. The game is already OLD. And it won't be long before someone makes a game that has the UO feel, but doesn't have graphics that would make an NES snicker. And when that finally does happen, then people can start droning about the end of the world... but for of us that are here on Stratics, complaining about AoS (of which I am one) or lack of a classic style server, there are 10 more actually in game, playing... and having some level of fun, or they wouldn't be playing.
     
  40. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    It did gain more than it lost, but the same happened after trammels release. This is what I am saying. The proof of the devs that you speak of was a few of many posts of how they spoke about how they thought the players would police themselves? Or who was it, that said UO was a social Experiment gone wrong? But that is not proof that the game would not have succeeded in the state it was, there are many games out there that do not offer areas of "protections" none of them are better than UO, so the fact that other games do fine for longer periods of time than UO did, is not proof in itself that a game like that could do just fine? The point is the introduction of tram did not stop the churn, it continued just the same until just before aos I believe? I forget when they stopped allowing the numbers to be seen, but I think it was either right before aos or sometime after LBR?
     
  41. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Well beforethey shut down UO, go to http://www.camelotherald.com/news/index.php. Worldwide 2,095
    Last Updated: 4/13/10 12:30 AM. This goes before we do. LOL 12 years and they are still saying UO is shutting down.
     
  42. Tek

    Tek Seasoned Veteran
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    Geeeze -

    Currently defending the realms:
    1,904 North America
    0 GOA Europe
    1,904 Worldwide
    Last Updated: 4/13/10 01:07 AM
     
  43. Paps

    Paps Journeyman
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    contrary to those of you that think this was an
    "OMG UO IZZ GUNNA DIE TODAY,,THE END IS NEAR" thread,,,
    it isn't.However i am concerned about `the beans`
    TY to the person whom postedabout the other EA MMO that got its plug pulled,,,you posted a real and accurate number.That number being 5,000.
    so basically if UO < 5,ooo monthly = no more UO in 6 months
    2 years ago UO = 75,000 roughly
    even if today is but half of that its still got a long way down before they pull the plug.
    But i still would like a way to see just how close or not so close to that 5-k limit the game really is.
     
  44. Touche.
     
  45. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Your worried about 5,000 subs. If 5,000 is the magic number then why has EA pulled the plug on DAoC. Worldwide 1574 Last Updated: 4/13/10 02:23 AM. In 2 hours 500 people have logged off and you are worried about UO. I don't think I have ever seen 5,000 on DAoC. So how is it, according to you, 5000 is the magic number and yet DAoC is still here.
     
  46. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    And lets not forget about Warhammer Online http://www.warhammeronline.com/faq/index.php?section=11

    What are the restrictions on the Endless Trial?
    Endless Trial accounts are restricted to Tier 1 of the Empire versus Chaos pairing. This includes Tier 1 scenarios but does not include access to the Capital Cities or the other racial pairings within the game.
    Endless Trial users are unable to send mail to other players or use the Auction House and Bank; however, they can receive mail as well as trade with any player face-to-face.
    Endless Trial accounts are limited to designated servers. If you'd like to play with friends on other servers, you will need to purchase a retail copy of the game and transfer your character to their server (or create a new character on their server). All characters Rank 11 and under on purchased accounts have access to unlimited transfers, with a max of one transfer per day. Please note that you can only transfer characters to the same server type as the server you created your characters on (Core, Open RvR, and Roleplay). Please see the full server list here for details about each server, including server type. Alternatively, if you have a friend who is currently playing WAR, you can ask them for a Recruit-a-Friend code that will allow you to create a Recruit-a-Friend trial account which has access to all servers. Please see the Recruit-a-Friend section for more information.

    I would think that of the 3 games Mythic is taking care of UO is doing the best. When the other 2 shut down then I might, and I say might, worry.
     
  47. UODJ

    UODJ Adventurer

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    I think UO is doing just fine. Just throw out some basic numbers:

    Say 75K current subscribers @ 12 bucks a month. That's 900 grand per month. That's just under 11 million dollars per year that UO brings to EA.

    Anyone really think the server cost and people to run the game flip EA upside down from that nearly 11 million dollars a year?


    That's not even factoring all the in-game items (transfer tokens, ect) that are purchased each and every single day from the Code store. How much does that add in a year? Few hundred grand? Few million?