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Tough Question for EA. Server storage limit?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Guest, Mar 8, 2008.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    " Quote" Can we have more stable slots?"

    This is the kind of question that I usually skip for the Five on Friday, but what with the 5-slot dragons and purple bunnies and all, it's quite the hot topic. The answer is, we'd like to, but there is some research we need to do before we can add something like that. What will the impact be on our server storage space?
    "End Quote"

    OK EA, Fess it. How low are you? Is this why some content and other stuff that has been promised to be in the game, still is not in the game? Is your server storage space ever going to be increased? ect ect.........

    I mean there is no reason for us players to keep asking for stable slot increase, opening up the other area's of Malas for housing, more spawn in different area's, increased store at homes/bank box, and on an on, if you do not have the storage space to accomidate the changes.

    What would happen if a LOT of players returned to the game, or joined the game, and used up even more server space? Right now i am going Hmmmmmmm.
     
  2. Larisa

    Larisa Reporting Manager
    Editor Reporter Moderator Professional Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Editor Fallen Lords

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    Not too long ago, they increased server storage capacity, I remember Jeremy saying we had enough to last another 10 years without unecessary inactive charactor deletions, IE Server wipes, so I think storage is okay, but the increased amount of stable slots would mean more pets *stored* on the server PER char, that's ALOT more storage space PER char, 6 for most accounts, 7 for some...increased by how many? 1? 2? It's all a numbers game, but I think to increase stable slots they MIGHT have to do another server increase??? Not sure how viable that would be.
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Nope! There's no space left. You'll be asked to leave some of your belongings behind. Only 12 people allowed on the bus at one time. Please no unnecessary luggage. No pets allowed. Keep your arms and legs in the vehicle at all times. No loud noises. No gum chewing.
     
  4. Babble

    Babble Guest

    They should have enough space left.
    But why give it away for free when they could charge for it?
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    If there's a shortage, I'm sure the trial accounts that some bots were using could easily be removed.

    I'm sure our master of disaster and destruction could find a few more things to set alight in the name of stable space.

    Wenchy
     
  6. Larisa

    Larisa Reporting Manager
    Editor Reporter Moderator Professional Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Editor Fallen Lords

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    Flutter...did you wake up on the goofy side of the bed this morning?? You are on a roll today! *laughs*
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    When there was no hard limit on stable storage, over half the creatures in the game lived in stables. So you can understand the developers' concern on how increasing stable storage could impact server performance.
     
  8. Frankly, hard drive space is both cheap and, these days, plentiful. Something not being implemented because of a "lack of storage" really doesn't cut it as an excuse these days.
     
  9. Babble

    Babble Guest

    They don't really say so.

    I still guess they would prefer to charge for it.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. The answer is: we'd like to,
    but
    there is some research ...<font color=red> we need to do</font color=red> BEFORE we can add something like that .(note the period)
    What will the impact be on our server storage space? (among other likely exploits, abuses, Linked code breakages[​IMG] ... higher priority than scritters, added content, legacy bugs, new bugs .........)

    [​IMG] Typical hall misinterpretation of a simple acknowlegement of ONE request ...
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I believe it goes beyond the physical hard disk space and more into the space available on the database. Everything in UO, down to the last pixel, is stored in a crazy complex database. Any changes, from simple to complex, require careful planning and execution.

    When the Dev's say they are considering a go/no-go due to "space"...I would think it is a little more complex than running to Best Buy and putting a Maxtor on the company card.

    Just my thoughts...I may be wrong. [​IMG]
     
  12. What do you think a database is stored on? A hard drive. Most probably a series of hard drives on a SCSI chain utilizing RAID.

    Additional entries into a database attached to a character's stable do not require any changes to the schema structure itself. Even if they were using the smallest numeric type to count pets in one's stable, which is 1 byte, that would still permit a maximum total of 255 (127 if using a signed tinyint) pets to be stored, theoretically. The stable slot limit is enforced via the application, not the database's structure.
     
  13. Paris_Hilton

    Paris_Hilton Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    If there's a shortage, I'm sure the trial accounts that some bots were using could easily be removed.

    I'm sure our master of disaster and destruction could find a few more things to set alight in the name of stable space.

    Wenchy

    [/ QUOTE ]





    The three bod collecting accounts that I caught scripting afk have been gathering bods for at least a year, so are not trial accounts by any means.They formerly operated out of Luna City, and although when I watched them back then I doubted anyone would spend all their time in UO filling bods there was no evidence of them doing any afk scripting in Luna City. For some reason the operation got moved to Delucia (Luna City burinings maybe)?


    The person running the script plays on a 7 year account that was not directly involved in the afk end of it, they just benefit from the bods collected. THEY ARE the afk scripter of course and need removing from the game ON ALL their accounts, not just the spares they use to actively break the rules.


    But what would I say if I paged on that account? Best we could try to do was take down the spare accounts and even that wasn't easy.


    Due to the paging process, max 3 characters may be paged on (though 13 were involved) and then with the hours of waiting for the page to be answered, it was impossible for us to try to show the GMs more than 1 account that was currently online and actively involved in the afk bod collecting activities.


    The script was running 13 "collectors" through the bod collection process in about 10 minutes every hour on the hour.


    I am sure that even though the scripter was afk from the bod collecting operation, if a GM did come and haul away the one char that we were watching attempt to recall to a blocked area for hours (course they don't tell you), and even if this account got 3 day suspension (should have been instabanned), the scripter got a warning email about breaking the terms of the tos and hurriedly shut down the other 2 accounts before they could be proved to be operating afk as well.

    I feel as though our hours of work (ok it was very entertaining work true, watching an afk char try to chiv recall until they ran out of tithing points and then still try to recall), our hours of work Maybe, just Maybe, Might have pulled one afk bod collecting account off the game for 3 whole days.


    Since I do not know how many characters were collecting on each of the 3 accounts involved, I can not say how much server storage we freed up by trying to take just one of the three accounts out of the game. We think a GM finally answered our page because the scripting char moved sideways in an unnatural manner before it poofed (but we were both sort of looking away and then back so can not be sure if the GMs did that or the scripter finally logged onto the account).

    If the GMs did a PROPER job of investigating all 3 accounts that were involved (in one page I listed the names of all 13 chars in order they logged in and recalled to get the bods), meaning that they actively searched the backpacks of the 13 chars we reported and found they all had the same exact items, chiv book, runebook, and lots and lots of bods (possibly bod books as well), researched whose name is on the accounts, etc. and using that available evidence to prove all were involved in the same operation and THEN ACTIONED ALL 3 ACCOUNTS, then we possibly freed up:


    13 chars X 2 bods (smith and tailor) X 24 hours X 3 days suspension of eX-bod storage space on Pacific.



    Fat chance I know but I still have to ask:



    Where's my extra stable slots?




    PS: Paging system needs some work.
     
  14. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    <blockquote><hr>

    PER char, that's ALOT more storage space PER char, 6 for most accounts, 7 for some...

    [/ QUOTE ]Don't forget:
    x 25 shards = ?!
     
  15. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
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    <blockquote><hr>

    The stable slot limit is enforced via the application, not the database's structure.

    [/ QUOTE ]More things stored = slower lookups.
    And the storage slot limit number is not where the added storage information is comming from (and this number probably shouldn't be saved anywhere in the first place - it should be recalculated when needed from values that should have copies in the database and in memory), it's with keeping track of every little detail about every animal within anybody's stable.

    It shouldn't be a problem, but any time that any additional data is being looked at being added to any part of the database, all of the areas where lookups on that table (or tables) are done need to be verified that they currently function in a way that will not cause unnecessary added server load, and it needs to be ensured that in a worst-case scenario (something like... playerbased triples per shard, everybody decides to be a full-blown tamer and completely fill up their stables), there's still enough space on the server and performance will not noticeably be impacted for claiming/storing/etc pets. That takes time.
    It wasn't a "we can't do this, we don't have enough storage space on the server". It was a "we don't know if we can do this, we need to check things (for example, storage space on the server)".
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Plus they now have to deal with storage of all the xmas and valentines day gifts that keep appearing. Lots and lots of extra junk.
     
  17. _Uriah Heep_

    _Uriah Heep_ Guest

    Not to mention having room to store all my gps ! [​IMG]
     
  18. Silly Seadog

    Stratics Veteran It's My Birthday

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    Arrrr, share some o' dat booty!!
     
  19. Toptwo

    Toptwo Guest

    why not make 2 threads here happy???

    Seems to me there are a LOT of people BEGGING for more stable slots!!!

    Seems to me there are a LOT of people BEGGING for another item turn-in/clean up Brit event!!!

    Let me see.....when we did the blackrock turn in we got items we could actually USE and USE UP.

    I myself got some very nice agapite and verite runic hammers, I got some Tok Dyes, I got scourge, putrification, eye of travesty and a TON of other ingredients, AND GUESS WHAT?!?!?!?!

    All of that stuff has been used and is now GONE and OFF the server.

    Soooooo..

    let me see...I got rid of a TON of blackrock I had been saving (over 200 pcs) I got a LOT of kewl items, and with the exception of a few armor items, I have USED everything up...gone...poof...200 pcs of blackrock turned in, and I have about 10 items left....saved the server some space...multiply that by the amount of people that turned in from 1-500 pcs (and I know that a LOT of people did turn in, AND had that many pcs) of blackrock and we saved the server a LOT of space!!

    How many people are hording 100's of blackrock again??? (I KNOW I am) How many people are sitting on 100's of Ophidian rations, orders, etc??? How many people are sitting on 100's of rubble??? How many people have a bazillion strips of bacon, gingerbread cookies, cards (for EVERY occasion) Halloween candy, and all the other things we have been given for gifts through out the years???? I KNOW I AM!!!

    Even if you make the turn in at a 5-1 ratio..I PROMISE I will turn 95% of my blackrock, orders, rubble, cards, cookies, etc. in!!! (yes, I would keep 1 or 2 of each just incase...) but I sure dont need to be hording the collection of 300+ blackrock (and growing daily) that I am now.

    What are we supposed to think....you gave us a bunch of GREAT items for our blackrock...you DIDN'T turn the blackrock spawn OFF...so...either we are hording blackrock again for another turn in or you blew it and left the blackrock spawn turned on for nothing. As long as there was one turn in, and the blackrock keeps coming, people are going to keep on collecting it!!!

    Give us another turn in on ALL of our junk...make the items we turn in for useable resorces that will be USED up and go away..think of the TONS of server space you are going to generate...THEN you can give us MORE STABLE SLOTS!!!

    OR

    Let me turn in my blackrock and ALL of my other junk to the Stable master for STABLE SLOTS!!!! I would happily give up 10pcs of blackrock for ONE stable slot! I bet a LOT of other people here would as well....Let the stable master offer me 10 scourge OR ONE STABLE SLOT...or a Verite runic hammer OR ONE STABLE SLOT...or 10 putrification...OR ONE STABLE SLOT! This way those of us that want a STABLE SLOT can get it, and those of us that want a shot at a Verite hammer or other such fine turn in item can get one!

    Give us a clean up brit, and item turn in and you will gain enough server space that everybody here could have a dozen more STABLE SLOTS and you would STILL save server space!!!!

    whew...to much coffee to early in the morning for me [​IMG]

    ...making a edit here to add one more thought Devs....

    I would hazzard a guess here that most everybody that plays this game for at least 6 months or so, has figured out that the more chars they have the more gifts they get..so most of us probably have 5-7 chars per account, and just incase you give really GREAT gifts we have 5-7 chars per account with 5-7 chars PER SHARD. So figure the low end here 1 account for each player (and a LOT of people have multi accounts i myself have 3 accts) but we are figuring the LOW end here, 1 account for each player... 5 chars per account...25 shards = 125 chars per account. 7-10 items given per "gift basket" = 875 items per account...gifts given 3-4 times per year = 2625 total items each account has... per year.... multiply that by the number of active accounts and you have a BAZILLION items!!! Let us turn all that stuff in for "useupable" resources. Don't worry... if you make it so we can turn it in for things we can use... WE will worry about getting it Xshard traded. Guess what??? You just saved a TON of server space, more then I can even imagine....then

    wait for it.....

    wait for it.....

    wait for it.....

    We can have MORE STABLE SLOTS!!!


    ok.....

    think I am done now...I either need more coffee...or need to go back to bed for awhile.....

    whew!!! [​IMG]
     
  20. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    Or inactive character deletions...

    If my chars were deleted when I came back, dunno if I would of stayed my 2nd time here.
     
  21. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    <blockquote><hr>

    They should have enough space left.
    But why give it away for free when they could charge for it?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    oh.. increase stable slot by three code? for 29.99?


    It makes sense..
     
  22. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    <blockquote><hr>

    If there's a shortage, I'm sure the trial accounts that some bots were using could easily be removed.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    /Sign
     
  23. <blockquote><hr>

    Not too long ago, they increased server storage capacity, I remember Jeremy saying we had enough to last another 10 years without unecessary inactive charactor deletions, IE Server wipes, so I think storage is okay, but the increased amount of stable slots would mean more pets *stored* on the server PER char, that's ALOT more storage space PER char, 6 for most accounts, 7 for some...increased by how many? 1? 2? It's all a numbers game, but I think to increase stable slots they MIGHT have to do another server increase??? Not sure how viable that would be.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    What is a pet in terms of storage? Not much than a few weapons I think. What info they take :

    - kind of pet (dragon, rune beetle, dog, etc...)
    - color (code of the color)
    - Skills + Skillcap
    - list of friends
    - content of pack
    - loyalty level
    - previous owners

    A single pet should not on average represent more info to store than 4 or 5 items.
     
  24. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
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    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Not too long ago, they increased server storage capacity, I remember Jeremy saying we had enough to last another 10 years without unecessary inactive charactor deletions, IE Server wipes, so I think storage is okay, but the increased amount of stable slots would mean more pets *stored* on the server PER char, that's ALOT more storage space PER char, 6 for most accounts, 7 for some...increased by how many? 1? 2? It's all a numbers game, but I think to increase stable slots they MIGHT have to do another server increase??? Not sure how viable that would be.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    What is a pet in terms of storage? Not much than a few weapons I think. What info they take :

    - kind of pet (dragon, rune beetle, dog, etc...)
    - color (code of the color)
    - Skills + Skillcap
    - list of friends
    - content of pack
    - loyalty level
    - previous owners

    A single pet should not on average represent more info to store than 4 or 5 items.

    [/ QUOTE ]Skills &amp; Skillcap alone likely takes up at least the space of 4 or 5 items (if they're storing values for every skill and not just the skills the pet could have, which would be reasonable [though not space effecient], this would be even larger).
    There's also fame, karma, food type (legacy pets do not match current pets in some situations, which suggests this information is stored per pet, not per type), name, stats, derived stats, current values of derived stats, resists, and damage distribution.
     
  25. Babble

    Babble Guest

    So anyone trying to tell me we don't have more storage these days than 6 years ago when there was no stable limit?
    [​IMG]
     
  26. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Well, how about this idea(which has been around for a while).

    Craftable Hitch Posts for houses.
    - Placing a Hitch Post Takes up a Lockdown or more.
    - Hitch Post security level works just like containers.
    - "Stabling" animals there take up the same number of lockdowns as number of Control slots required.
    - Pets are "Claim"-able by any char that has the skills to control it.
    - Pets which are "Bonded" to one char will become 'unbonded' when removed by another char. A confirmation gump will pop up stating removal of current pet will cause unbonding, Click 'OK' to continue.
    - Possible limit of number of Pets/Control Slots per post, which would require more Hitch Posts to be added...

    This would keep the new space usage/needed to areas which have their memory already allocated. This would also allow one char to tame a horse for another char on the same account.

    Feel free to point out conceivable exploits.