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Trading Forums - Decision time Siege.

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by Petra Fyde, May 11, 2010.

?

Do you want a sub forum for trades?

Poll closed May 13, 2010.
  1. Yes please, I'd like trades in a subforum

    12.8%
  2. No thanks, I want to keep the status quo.

    87.2%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    We're changing the trade forums - See announcement at the top of the board.

    What I need now (quickly!) is a decision from Siege.
    Do you want a sub forum up there at the top, under the event sub forum?
    Or do you want to keep the status quo? All trades on the main discussion board?
     
  2. Timothy_SP

    Timothy_SP Guest

    I know there is no real money trading, but now gold too?
     
  3. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    No account trades for gold? What!? Why would that not be allowed? Sure, scams happen and we all hate that it does, but EA does allow for trades and sales with their Account Transfer Program. Why wouldn't it be allowed here? It seems to me a gaming fansite should allow anything the game company allows.
     
  4. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Because, with the exception of Siege, none of the 'for gold' sales actually are for gold. They just pay lipservice to the rule and sell for cash by icq. Causing the trade board mods a total nightmare to try to sort out.

    Also, to a large extent, people who are scammed on Stratics, stop posting on Stratics - regardless of whether it's Stratics' fault or not.

    We've thought about this long and hard, we've been discussing it back and forth for a couple of weeks. The trouble they cause between scammers and complaints about the rule breaking just aren't worth the hassle.

    Siege folk are starting to sell them through the ingame chat - there you don't have to worry about Stratics rules when someone asks 'can I trust this guy?
     
  5. CroakerTnT

    CroakerTnT Guest

    I don't want to have to check several forums to find out what's up. We don't have sufficient traffic here to warrant a change.

    There's only a half dozen new threads a day now.
     
  6. Luka Melehan

    Luka Melehan Certifiable
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    agreed
     
  7. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
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    Agreed.
     
  8. Skylark SP

    Skylark SP Available Storage: 0
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    Reminds me that years ago I made this...

    [​IMG]

    :D
     
  9. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    QFT...

    P.S. Do the two "Yes" even play SP?
     
  10. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    That's exactly the result I expected but, given the present re-structure move, it seemed the right thing to do to ask and not just assume.
     
  11. QueenZen

    QueenZen Always Present
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    I voted with the NO voters.

    One, we do not have enough folks, another forum just splits what little is left of us and community further.

    Two, some couple few folks change accts. like fetching drinks of water. I prefer to know who is whom, without having to go off to another forum to find out who is on first, today being whomever whether they be honest sellers or not, ie keeps us all clued in faster, when or if posted in one place, as to whom is whom on which acct. which chr. whom we may have known,owned by somene we trusted or knew, is now being owned perhaps by someone else, etc. that the acct. has changed hands on us.

    Three, folks whom blame THIS forum, for jackarses that are dishonest really are blaming the incorrect source. We all do or should know the rules here, folks can still pm privately, or merely post BUYER BEWARE without name droppin, or yeh in in game chat to try to warn folks.

    It is NOT Stratics fault, that the game world is sometimes full of JERKS, that are dishonest, or for their own amusement like to hurt or scam other folks.

    But labeling namedroppin logically is a form of trial without jury smearing a name... here or anywhere, which without proof, is wrong, like rl trials, so in theory it shouldnt be done[ just in case] someone is NOT a dishonest arse. They any of us, can take elsewhere, more privately, to warn folks genuinely, NOT to buy off a so called, 'known' scammer or to warn that a player is not particularly worth anyone's trust with in game items, or rl moneys or accts. etc.

    I know folks would like it IF such comments could be posted here publically on Stratics, but if one honest person's rep would be smeared it would be wrong, so wrong, sooner or later we learn whom NOT to trust even if it may be the hard way, it still is better than smearing a rep of someone that may NOT have been a scammer or dishonest publically HERE.

    Best to forward comments still [regarding known possibly known scams or scammers.. PRIVATELY. ]

    It just may be safer too, to keep everything Siege, here all in one place.
    We ALL turn in HERE...one place, for anything, related to Siege. If we had to go to two sep. forums we also might MISS which acct. changed hands, and that may create more harm than serve good too.
     
  12. John Connelly

    John Connelly Journeyman
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    While we are considering changes can we get rid of the events forum at the same time?
     
  13. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    Speedy, why did you vote "Yes"?
     
  14. CroakerTnT

    CroakerTnT Guest

    What! There's an events forum? Why?

    I agree. Get rid of it and just use the main forum.
     
  15. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    QFT...
     
  16. SoulWeaver

    SoulWeaver King of The Bearded Ladies
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    I acutally do sell most of my accounts for gold.... i know many of us really do.. I do sell gold for cash but thats just me...

    I can understand stratic's position though... they dont want the drama..
     
  17. Troop

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    I voted no. I am lazy and do not want to have to go to more than one place to see whats going on.
     
  18. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Its pretty likely people are just paying lip service to the rule and accpeting cash, though some [I know I did] sell for and pay with gold. I guess game chat is fine, but not everyone uses it and the thought of being bombarded with constand advertising in game isn't very appealing.

    Still, I have to call BS to whoever came up with this new rule and I'm not directing this at our mods, but scammers are still gonna scam and they don't just scam accounts, they can scam anything in a multitude of ways. The bottom line is that most scammee's will come here and post about it, just as they have for ages. The RoC has hardly been a deterrent and stopping all account sales won't put a stop to it either and in light of that, its rather silly to move forward with this new rule.

    Either way, it won't affect me much, but whats next? People sell things in this game all the time for either cash or gold. Are we going to be prevented from selling kegs, regs, some uber weapon, etc for cash OR gold because someone might get "scammed" out of them?

    And then there is this:
    So, in other words, Stratics is willing to alieniate all the legit buyer's and seller's in lieu of alieniating the smaller minority of people who might be scammed? I am not saying that segment of the community isn't important and I'll be the first in line to rally to their defense, but the logic behind this decision makes zero sense.

    Again, I''m not directing this to our mods, but more the person who actually came up with this nonsense. It seems to me Stratics is getting less and less user-friendly. =/
     
  19. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    That's me then. Because it was my idea.

    I got totally sick and tired of Stratics being used to aid and abet scammers and hackers and of my trade board mods having to sort out the sales for gp that weren't.
    I discussed it back and forth with the entire staff for weeks before reaching this decision. I'm sorry you don't like it.
     
  20. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    1. You cannot control what other people do
    2. You cannot stop scammers from scamming
    3. We can warn people of shady sellers without breaking the RoC... if you let us
    4. Your trade board mods have to sort that nonsense because of rules you implemented
    5. I am terribly disappointed in this decision and even more-so that it came from you
    6. I know your intentions are well-meaning, but I feel you are doing a disservice to this community with this new rule


    I hate scammers as much as you do, but I guess I've said all I need to say on the matter.
     
  21. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    1. I agree, I can't.
    2. I agree on this too. I can stop them using Stratics to do it though, at least for accounts - In my view there's a major difference between stealing an account and stealing a few pixels.
    3. Yes, we try to stretch the rule as far as it will go for that.
    4. No, the decision to stop 'for cash' sales was site-wide, not just uo.stratics and was made before I became ME.
    5. I'm sorry, but I did think about it a lot
    6. This community is the only one that actually trades accounts for gold. I have to think about the whole of Stratics. They will no doubt continue to do so through other means, since it allows them to play the 'hard' shard without worrying about actually training characters and bothering with RoT.
     
  22. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Yet another nail in the coffin.
     
  23. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
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    It doesnt matter if it's allowed or not allowed on the forums it's still going to happen, and when it does happen the person who get's scammed is still going to come to the forums and post about it. So I really don't see how this idea is going to help to be honest.

    Now if you was to actually convice stratics into allowing us to post who the scammers are and actually warn people about certain members then that would be helpful...
     
  24. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    We can't. UO names aren't unique, stuff can be faked. There are all kinds of reasons why it's just not possible to let people be named. Not that it helps anyway. People are warned and go ahead with trades regardless of advice. The only thing that changes is Stratics isn't being used to promote the scams.
    We spent several weeks discussing this, because we thought it was important. I'm sorry you don't agree with my decision, but it's made.
     
  25. Mook Chessy

    Mook Chessy Certifiable
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    I need to say one quick thing...

    The biggest problem with selling for real life is the mods!

    Go back and look at all of posts cash made when he was selling

    " I have 85 million...what should I do with it" you guys (the mods) let this crap go on.

    He made this type of post several times and it stayed on the boards, shame on you (mods)!

    As I do not buy or sell accounts this change affects me nada!

    Just wanted to point out my feelings!

    Have a nice day!
     
  26. T'Challa

    T'Challa Certifiable
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    QFT.
     
  27. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    The purpose of this poll was to offer the Siege community the option of having a trade board. The account sale decision is not up for discussion.
    As expected the board is not wanted, and will therefore not be made.
     
  28. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Gotta love it when someone can't admit they have made a poor decision, then says its not up for discussion! :thumbdown:

    This decision should have been discussed with us in the first place instead of made by someone with an agenda.

    [​IMG]
     
  29. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
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    I have to agree with Kat on this sorry.
     
  30. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    Why do people still use Stratics? The whole place should be evacuated.
     
  31. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Surprisingly, a 'poor decision' does not = 'a decision you disagree with'.
    The matter was discussed, at length, with the entire uo.stratics staff.
    Another surprise, it is not mandatory when making a policy decision for uo.stratics boards, to consult the posters of Siege Perilous forum.
     
  32. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Yet the fact that it was "discussed at length with staff" doesn't mean it is the right or even a good decision. I know for a fact that not all of them agreed this was the right decision. You are, however, right that it isn't "mandatory" that policies should be discussed with us, but this forum IS for Siege players, this decision DOES affect EVERY Siege player and this decision isn't helping our current situation on Siege. A lot of new players hate the idea of having to do RoT and the fact that they could come here and see accounts for sale or ask what might be available has been very beneficial... especially for our shard.

    Furthermore, the number of legit and honest sellers far out-number the few rats we have here. The legit sellers far outnumber the scammers across the board, yet the legit buyers and sellers are the ones you're hurting here. Because why again? Because you want to show those few scammers that Petra means business and because you don't want your mods to have to moderate sale threads???

    C'mon, Petra... This is like cutting off your nose to spite your face!

    I applaud your most of your efforts with Stratics. We don't see eye to eye sometimes, but I know you work hard to research and update content and that was a huge undertaking, along with all your other duties as an Admin/Mod/Content Editor/all the other things you do. Despite my feelings about this decision, I do believe you care a great deal about the Siege community, so I'm gonna urge you to rethink this decision.
     
  33. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I would strongly dispute your facts, but I can't, because I don't have facts and figures to counter with.
    I can only state what I believe.
    I believe it does not affect every Siege player - because most Siege players have had the same account for years that they trained when they started this shard - only a select few change accounts like they change their socks.
    I don't believe it will discourage people from coming here, because most people start a character on their existing account - the one they're already paying a monthly fee on. Very few buy an account, with its attendant commitment to pay an additional fee.
    Accounts will be sold anyway, through the chat, through guild boards, through vent.

    There's also the faint, and possibly laughable, hope that if people who plan to quit can't sell their account so easily they may mothball it instead. Leaving them a way back if they change their mind. A lot who quit bitterly regret parting with their account a few months later.

    I firmly believe that this decision is in the best interests of Stratics forums. Sorry.
     
  34. CroakerTnT

    CroakerTnT Guest

    Bah!

    It's decisions like these which are pushing people away from stratics, away from EA, and toward the freeshards. Without the benefits of a strong, vibrant forums and the semi-stability of our accounts/stuff here on EA shards, there's really no reason to continue paying for EA accounts.

    Alexandria, here I come!
     
  35. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    I do not like seeing Petra take all of the heat for this decision. I have been an advocate for disallowing account sales on Stratics for years. Long before Petra took the M.E. title.

    I brought the idea before many admins in times past. The circumstances have made this seem the time is right.

    I do understand the pros and cons of this action. It was well debated, trust me on this. I am sure the account sellers will find other avenues for these transactions.

    To those of you put off by this policy, I understand. You would have to walk in our shoes for a bit to truly understand how difficult a choice this was, and why it ultimately went this way.

    *tips hat*
     
  36. Hmm...no account trades for gold.

    While I am not privy to knowing for a fact that all the mods were or were not in agreement to this decision, nor does it really matter what the percentage of agreement was, I do agree with Kat and others on this occasion that if someone wants to sell/buy accounts for gold they ought to be allowed to continue to post and discuss it here for this reason:

    To give players who 'do not yet know who is who' and may be attracted to a specific account the opportunity to ask questions of others, enabling the buyer to make a more informed decision. The decision they finally make will at least be made with a better awareness, because the community will have had this venue to give advice/opinions which the buyer can review as many times as needed. The above includes the seller, of course, but they would be more likely to guess who to trust already, unless they inherited the account. There will always be risks.

    Yes, we have the in-game chat, but a better and easier to follow discussion can be played out here, in black and white...less so in the game chat where we have, at times, a lot of players typing at once.

    If some accounts aren't actually sold for gold as advertised, then I hardly think it's up to the mods to attempt to sort it out. That particular drama is over at the outset as stratics rules are against selling for cash in any case.
    Mod, "Did you buy/sell for gold?"
    Poster, "No, it was a cash transaction"
    This one question and answer gets the job done, no hassle, little time spent.

    So, if on the trade forums someone comes in with:
    'I was denied the account I paid cash for'
    'I was selling my account for cash even though I said I was selling it for gold, but I didn't receive payment' bla bla bla... you get the idea.
    These threads/posts should just be deleted and complainants directed elsewhere, because it's obviously not the responsibility of Stratics or its mods to sort out dialogue regarding cash transfers as they wouldn't be talking about pixels.

    Scammers will continue to scam and will be more successful if their 'marks' are naive, so leaving player communication open on Stratics cannot be a bad thing, it's the only real, solid, public reference to player integrity we have, especially when we want to do some research on a specific players historic conduct regarding honesty.

    The existing playerbase has a duty and a right (in my opinion) to share information with those who aren't informed, of who is potentially trustworthy - or not - with carefully chosen words, and we should continue to have this (stratics) avenue as well as in-game chat to fulfill and support it.
     
  37. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    "Well I don't have anything to back it up but I'll be goddamned if I'll be convinced otherwise!"
     
  38. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    LOL... Lost a little Dr Pepper reading that, but that is exactly how her response is sounding!
     
  39. Davy

    Davy Journeyman
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    Posted this in another post figured id throw my opinion in here 2 :)
     
  40. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I don't need to convince anyone. The decision is made.
    Davy, I think you are misunderstanding the purpose of the thread.
    The 'regional trade boards' are being closed to be replaced by subforums on the shards. Since I was doing that it seemed right to ask Siege if they wanted a dedicated subforum too. As expected, the answer is 'no'. Therefore Siege will continue as normal selling their 'stuff' right here on the main board.
    The only thing that you can't sell is an account. The option to sell accounts for gold has been so badly abused in a variety of ways that we decided we'd had enough and were putting a stop to it.
     
  41. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    LOL Wow...
    It will affect every Siege player who wants to buy or sell an account. Taking away the ability to post an account for sale on Stratics is akin to the classified ads being removed from a major city newspaper.

    Screw all the folks that want to sell their vehicles on their own. You just prevented them from effectively advertising their sale.

    I don't think you can support that claim, at least not here on Siege, since you tend to play alone or with your husband.

    I'm sorry Petra, but I'm gonna have to say that the majority of players have purchased at least one account. During the past 5 years as a guildleader, I have seen and discussed many transactions with new players and vets alike. I cannot count the number of new players who have purchased accounts after getting a good taste of RoT. There is a good number of Vets that purchase accounts as well.




    This I agree with. New players typically do start on an existing account, but the ones who cannot stand RoT and time investment, are the ones who lose interest and start looking for an account to purchase. Again, as a guildleader, I can assure you this happens to a good number of players.


    Again, you have effectively removed the classified ads from our community. The only ones really benefiting this decision are you and your mods.

    Come back to what? Have you seen the state of Siege lately?

    FIFY rolleyes:
     
  42. AirmidCecht

    AirmidCecht twitch.tv/airmid
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    <---- Hey look an ADMIN TAG! String me up with her boyz n gurlz, Petra has never made decisions on her own standing. She brings it to the staff community, we all discuss it and the Admins (plural) make the final decision.

    What happens next you may ask? (Kat especially should dig it)

    We push Petra out the door to stand in front of the firing squad with a sign detailing forum changes and eat ho ho's while you all string her up. I thought it was a great plan? :gee:
     
  43. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    AirmidCecht - You all have been doing way more than eating HoHo's from the looks of this decision. Petra took responsibility for the decision, wtf are you doing here besides trolling?
     
  44. AEowynSP

    AEowynSP Certifiable
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    Umm where? I use firefox and perhaps it be blocked.
    *looks for announcement*
     
  45. John Connelly

    John Connelly Journeyman
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    Skara Brae Community Center, Lake Superior and you are making decisions about the Siege boards. Guess that explains a lot.
     
  46. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    I suspect she is showing support. As do I. This to will blow over. Sorry for the honest folks that deal in accounts. It is just not worth the agrivation.
     
  47. AirmidCecht

    AirmidCecht twitch.tv/airmid
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    I'm reading posts, supporting decisions and offering input. Point being is this decision while not popular is supported. Siege post'n may be a lil too hard core for me but I'll line up and take the hit before reading something and moving on while Petra takes its on the chin by herself.

    She's too good for that and the majority of us know it *smiles*
     
  48. Lord Gareth

    Lord Gareth UO Content Editor | UO Chesapeake & Rares News
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    Just showing that Petra was not the only one in favor of this decision. I asked her why it wasn't done awhile ago.
     
  49. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran TnT/TnA

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    LOL Someone is a little too impressed with their stratics positioin, eh? I dunno, I think maybe you can squeeze in a few more indicators that you're and ADMIN!
    [​IMG]
     
  50. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    And in the meantime, those who were not in favor of this decision feel they have to remain quiet lest the zerg of admins and other mods dip them in their coffee and eat them alive.
     
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