Hi, I'm kinda at a loose end, so thought I'd post this (shards down) This is what I found while training thus far - I thought people might find it helpful if they wish to train in similar skills: Skills I intend to train: Lockpicking Detect Hidden Remove Trap Hiding Stealth Healing Cartography This char is already established, so I dont have the luxury of starting with 50 in anything. So I am obviously starting with 0 in everything except healing which is at 58 and hiding which is at 40.3 I went to New Haven and bought training in: Lockpicking (make sure you buy enough so you have more than 30 skill). detect hiding stealth cartography carpentry tinkering LOCKPICKING GUIDE: Assuming you have a LJ and Miner already - have some wood and lots of ingots available. Make a lockable wooden box Make loads of clock parts etc and tinkering tools, until around 45 tinkering Make lockpicks until 50 tinkering Make another lockable wooden box On the first lockable box setup a macro that locks it with the key and then lockpicks it. Repeat the process until mid 40's in lockpicking then switch to the box you made at 50 tinkering skill. Repeat the process until mid 70's in lockpicking. PS the guide about training up this skill in vesper bank did not work for me. I just used up stacks of lockpicks for no gains. At mid 70's switch to a gm tinkered box (I am fortunate enough to have a gm tinker already) - Repeat until 95. I am now at 95 (took me 2 days - during which I was at work sleeping etc so prolly took me 16 hours to get to 95). I intend to either get discorded to train it to gm, or finish it off on dungeon chests (prolly the latter, I'll have felt like I've earnt it). DETECT HIDDEN: I now needed to get this to 50 so I could train up in remove trap. Still being at 50 ish in tinkering, I trapped one of my boxes and used detect hidden on it until I reached 50. If you go down the hiding, stealth route like me, setup the macro to hide then do detect hidden. I did this and walked around my house gaining in hiding, stealth and detect. REMOVE TRAP: Go back to new haven and buy remove trap off the theif guildmaster. At this point I found I needed to drop tinkering back down to 40 to be able to gain in remove trap. So I bought some anatomy to drop it back down. (Buy just enough anatomy to get your tinkering 6 to 7 whole points above your remove trap). On hindsight I would not have needed to do this, I could have trained up lockpicking at this point, rather than beforehand Now obtain the following items: lots of bolts, ingots and possibly lockpicks if you wish to do that at the sametime rather than what I did above. This is the macro I used to begin with: Trap box with dart 8 times or so. use skill remove trap on box apply bandage I needed this macro to repeat trapping the box 8 times due to the number of failures. Plus, if you time the repeating of the macro correctly, by the time it has done this 8 times, it is ready to remove trap again. As my tinkering and remove trap increased, I was able to lower the number of attempts to trap the box. However, I found the traps did more damage requiring me to heal more often. I also found that I needed detect hidden to be higher than 50 as it took me 10 times to detect a trap in vesper bank on the boxes present. (Please note I spent an hour in vesper bank removing traps and lockpicking and detecting etc, I only got 2 gains in remove trap, died several times, but was 6k richer for my trouble). The new macro I used was now: trap box trap box pause (needed for last remove trap attempt) use detect hidden on box bandage self pause use skill remove trap on box bandage self This has got me to 70 remove trap. However, my tinkering is now below my remove trap and my gains in remove trap are very slow. So I now have 2 options - 1. Go train up at vesper bank and dungeon chests etc. This has pros and cons. Pros being the gold I'll get. Cons being how much time it will take to gm remove trap - much slower than using my method above. 2. Train up tinkering to 76 skill so it is 6 whole points ahead of remove trap again. This method will require me to keep training up tinkering manually to keep it ahead of remove trap. Could be quite expensive considering I will drop tinkering as soon as I no longer need it. I didnt mind using this method before as tinkering was gaining from just trapping the box, but now..... Either option is going to take time, but I think the vesper bank route maybe the better option now as at least I will earn gold while i'm training. Once I reach 80 - 90 remove trap, I maybe able to revert back to disarming trapped boxes my gm tinker could trap, but I will find that out later. CARTOGRAPHY: I intend to do this last after I have trained everything else - need the room for tinkering. Anyway, I'll update this as I progress with the training. Hopefully it will be useful.