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[Discussion] Trammel-birth oddities

Discussion in 'UO Rares Collector' started by BrianFreud, Jul 3, 2014.

  1. BrianFreud

    BrianFreud Lead Wiki Mod & Doer of Crazy Things
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    I am looking for a few Trammel-birth NPC-sold miscolored items.
    • dark purple "copper key" [​IMG]
    • pink "cooked bird" [​IMG]
    • pink "arrow" [​IMG]
    • red (not invasion red!) "a plate helm" [​IMG]
    • red "bowl of peas" [​IMG]
    • cyan "a bottle of liquor" [​IMG] (will not say "it looks explosive"!)
    • light blue "a bottle of ale" [​IMG] (will not say "it looks explosive"!)

    • red "a bottle of liquor"
    Chessie or Atlantic is preferred. If anyone can help, please ICQ or PM. Thanks!

    Brian
    235-738-65
     
    #1 BrianFreud, Jul 3, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2014
  2. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    I'm not sure these are trammel birth oddities (like the purple leg of lamb and the gold chess board). I don't recognize these items. The two liquor bottles are from melisande that lost their tags.
     
  3. BrianFreud

    BrianFreud Lead Wiki Mod & Doer of Crazy Things
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    No... these all are from Tram birth, and those bottles existed far before Melisande did. :p
     
  4. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Where are you getting this information?
     
  5. Angel Dust

    Angel Dust Slightly Crazed
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    Not sure, but the bottles are lesser known items from that time frame. Assia had the light blue one on vendor awhile back and I failed to buy it unfortunately.
     
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  6. BrianFreud

    BrianFreud Lead Wiki Mod & Doer of Crazy Things
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  7. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Yeah, from what I can read on that website some of these items are not trammel "birth" but from an exploit that involved selling certain items to an NPC and buying them back without the tags.
     
  8. BrianFreud

    BrianFreud Lead Wiki Mod & Doer of Crazy Things
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    It doesn't say anything like that Flutter.

    Translated text:
    "It is a sample of the item to be referred to as the "Shard unique rare" in Japan. It uses towards the "there is only one thing only" the word "unique", and seems to have been called "(items that are the wrong colored) miscolored item" in foreign countries.
    According to the prevailing view at home and abroad, when Trammell was born, it seemed to sell items of a different color than the normal NPC due to some defect, it is that it's a different color this item. UO that is Trammell birth: If you look at the (2000/04/27) before and after the period of R introduction, by that Legends Oceania after before, it means that you are not present in the shard was born later and Legends.
    On an appearance way irregular, there is also a variation of such amount you can buy from the NPC originally, yet seems to be that it has been removed on a large scale in Europe and America Shard of course Japan as a bug item, insignificant species particularly overseas specific native Shard is very difficult to like.
    Furthermore, it is almost helpless when it comes it is, whether the different colors of items Trammell birth really.
    I want to clue that you are present two or more at a minimum, and that the property is the same as the NPC sell goods, but, due to the presence of copy goods due to a bug in use, the items can be equipped with all unfortunately now with lowered significantly the value, even met in different colors equipment to new, it has become not know at all whether the copy of something whether the original.
    Copy product may keep the color even while becoming the same properties as the NPC sale goods, in this case, it is fake most insidious."

    The bugs you're refererring to involved stacked items, at High Seas-birth. That page predates High Seas by a number of years, and these items predate it by a decade. So what are you talking about? Besides, what red bowl of peas, etc, exists that you would think was the hypothetical original 'named' item? There isn't anything with that color and graphic; that would only be possible for the bottles... and bottles don't stack anyhow, so wouldn't have been affected by that bug. :p

    Can I please go back to actually trying to buy something?
     
    #8 BrianFreud, Jul 4, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2014
  9. S_S

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    just.....wow.
     
  10. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    I can vouch the bottom bottle on his list is a trammel birth NPC one. There is also a "red" bottle that matches the red torches. I owned both long before Mel's even existed.
     
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  11. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    The bug in question existed years before high seas, but yes it involved stacked items only. The only bugged items that do NOT follow this (to the best of my knowledge) are the stolen balms/bottles as it is from an entirely -different- bug.
     
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  12. BrianFreud

    BrianFreud Lead Wiki Mod & Doer of Crazy Things
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    Thanks Assia - and by the way, thanks for the red strength potions; it knocked an other one off my want list. :)
     
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  13. Flutter

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    There is a whole slew of new items that are appearing from the "sell to vendor/buy off vendor" exploit. Including bottles of all sorts, food items and more. That's all I am going to say about this. (due to stratics rules) Also don't ask me how it's done because I don't share exploits I report them.
     
  14. BrianFreud

    BrianFreud Lead Wiki Mod & Doer of Crazy Things
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    Agreed. However, that's none of these.

    Assia, I've not heard of that one before. Is it a bottle of wine, ale, something else? :)
     
  15. Flutter

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    Btw I just bought a grey "a jar of honey" off of a vendor for 200K. (looks like savage kin paint)
     
  16. Flutter

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    I don't think Mel even drops a red colored bottle.
     
  17. BrianFreud

    BrianFreud Lead Wiki Mod & Doer of Crazy Things
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    I've edited to change this to a discussion thread, and posted a new WTB thread. If we can keep that one for people who might actually have any of these to sell?
     
    #17 BrianFreud, Jul 4, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2014
  18. BrianFreud

    BrianFreud Lead Wiki Mod & Doer of Crazy Things
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    Besides that coming from the sell/buy bug, and these coming from a vendor bug way back when Tram went live, the difference is simple:

    • You bought something that had a special name and color - "savage kin paint" - which had the name removed, but the color remain.
    • These items never had a special name, and the color *was* the bug. For these, other than the 2 bottles, there is no item with a special name which has that coloring.
    Even for the 2 bottles, I don't know that the "it looks explosive" would be removed; I've not seen any sell/buy items that had "special text" other than the special name, so no way to know.

    ...Or are you suggesting that pink legs of lamb, gold chessboards, blue bread loaves, gold magic lock scrolls, dark purple bottles of wine, red strength potions, and so forth all also come from the sell/buy bug? The only similar item, from around that same time, which came from a different bug, was the golden mark scrolls.
     
    #18 BrianFreud, Jul 4, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2014
  19. Flutter

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    Brian, I don't know who you think you're talking to. I know what trammel birth items are, and each shard had a different color. I was there. Were you? I love how you come into here and try to teach me about rares. It's kind of insulting. I've been collecting since "a fruit basket" was rare and if you accidentally ate the fruit you were devastated. I know what items were Trammel birth items. I notice how you listed certain items but not others that were in the OP of this thread. Yes, "pink legs of lamb, gold chessboards, blue bread loaves, gold magic lock scrolls, dark purple bottles of wine, red strength potions" were part of Trammel birth. (although the blue bread loves were released twice.)
     
  20. Angel Dust

    Angel Dust Slightly Crazed
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    Wow, those where the days!
     
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  21. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    I don't honestly remember, but I want to say liquor. Definitely wasn't wine. It had a slightly different hue than the admiral's rum. Can be hard to tell unless you get them next to one another. I sold both the light blue and the red a couple years ago when I thinned my collection of alcohol.
     
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  22. Manticore

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    Here is the problem. These lesser items whether they were introduced via an new expansion's birth, exploits, or bugs have literally turned into too many different origins over past 18 years for players to remember. No one kept a catalog of anything because if you wanted them they were readily available. Trying to rebuild this now although may be admirable, we all just have to agree to disagree that a certain number of these items origin's will never get straightened out. Take Angel's Pub List for example, he puts out this wonderful list and people begin showing pictures of unique items. It's just proves to show that even as careful as I am with my list from the beginning that there are still items I missed. Same with the rubble hued plants. Brian made interesting discoveries on the extra hues of the various rubble plants and I am sure some rubble hue collector would appreciate that list so I am sure this list will be like that as well. Someday, someone will search the history looking to collect exploited items or bugged items and come upon this thread and will be able to distinguish the real things from the fake ones so they can steer away from the legit stuff.
     
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  23. BrianFreud

    BrianFreud Lead Wiki Mod & Doer of Crazy Things
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    Flutter, I'm not trying to teach you about rares. I was trying to buy some items. I was there as well, and have fond memories of waking up at 5 am just to race to get the fruit basket on Chessie and Cats, then off to get the rocks, chair, and hay on Chessie.

    You jumped in and questioned that these exist, and started making wholly incorrect statements of "fact" (ala "The two liquor bottles are from melisande that lost their tags."). You've so completely derailed this WTB thread that I had to create a whole new WTB thread. So you're willing to accept that some items came from the Trammel birth NPC bug. But any you personally don't recognize, you're questioning my even trying to buy them to such a point that you've completely derailed the thread?

    Manticore, that's the thing, I'm not even trying to build anything in this thread. That Japanese guy already did a fine job (though he missed Assia's red bottle). I'm simply trying to buy a few items from it. :p
     
    #23 BrianFreud, Jul 5, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2014
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  24. Deaol

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    I collected these items a while back and found that the red helm was easily replicated via the bugged neon red metal dye tubs, currently I only know of one person who has a red neon metal tub, more than likely, there are a few more out there.

    The arrows and cooked birds I acquired in pairs via Asian shard collectors. Bowl of peas for whatever reason was the hardest to locate.
    Good luck on your collecting quest.
     
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  25. BrianFreud

    BrianFreud Lead Wiki Mod & Doer of Crazy Things
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    Deaol, as I've not seen any red helm *in game* to get a hue from, that's the one problem item. I have the picture from that site, but otherwise, as you say, it'd be relatively easy to fake via a bugged tub, dyes, etc. As it'd have to be a metal tub with exactly that one red hue, if we knew the hue #, that'd seem to make it rather hard to make a "true" fake? :)
     
  26. Flutter

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    The problem is not if these items exist.
    It is that they also exist via other means(exploits) and therefore aren't really considered rares.
    (except for the peas and the helm which I have never heard of as being trammel birth items)
     
  27. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    The red bottle should be the same hue as the tram joining plane and I think, the torch. The blue bottle (bottom) should be the same hue as the blue pouch. I never tested this, but the hues look matching to me.

    I've never seen bottles without the explosive texts. If they have been the victim of a different exploit, it is weird because as cheap and comon as they are to get/buy, they should be all over vendors like the purple feathers, the fishing weights etc. I'm not saying you are wrong, Flutter... I'm just saying I really don't think the bottom blue has been exploited.

    Now the teal one... that I have no idea. I've never seen one. It might be a tram one, an exploit like you suggest or an old seer item who lost it's name (much like my navy blue newbied feathers). When AoS was introduced we had many seer items that lost their names. Some stayed and some were made default. I have no idea what the condition was made the difference, except that difference was repeated in the stacked exploit. Some items reverted to their default graphic names and some didn't. Perhaps the item identified as a unique and some were simply renamed. Coding wise, I don't know.
     
  28. Flutter

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    *nods*
    Some crazy stuff happened with AOS. Look at the metal hued leather/cloth items that got the metal names added to them. Think I even still have a "shadow iron studded bustier" around here.... I just get irked when I am being helpful in a post and am told I am wrong when I know I'm not. Had quite a few of those lady mel liquors that lost their tags a while back, figured everyone and their mom had them and tossed them for lockdown space (kinda like most of us did with our "fur"s) Not sure about the red stuff, don't own red peas, but would like to. Pink arrows of course depend on hue # as I've seen arrows of all the colors of the rainbow. *shrugs* Sent out some ICQs to some people I trust with more knowledge than I before I even commented on the post in the first place, you know, just to make sure I wasn't missing or forgetting something... Oh well. Either way. It's all good.
     
  29. BrianFreud

    BrianFreud Lead Wiki Mod & Doer of Crazy Things
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    I still have plenty of Lady Mel bottles with that name, and a few shadow iron bustier - think somewhere I have a agapite and verite one as well. Arrows, aye, I've seen arrows, board, etc, all dyed. However, there isn't a dye with that shade of pink (pink leg of lamb is hue 121); I'd presume, as Assia seems to, that each of the hues from the Tram-birth NPC bug was the same for all that color (dark purple, purple, pink, orange/gold, dark red, red, cyan, light blue); they certainly look all to be the same hue to my eye.

    Personally, I draw a line between something created by the gane due to a bug, vs something created by a player due to a bug. To me, tram-birth is collectable, while sell/buy default-name stuff is not. I've seen even you bid on/buy blue bread, so I'd presume you agree, at least in part. :)

    As for me, I get irked when I post a WTB thread, and it gets derailed in some sort of a "prove these exist" like this did.
     
  30. Flutter

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    My OP
    Your response.

    Instead of showing me where I could gather accurate information about the history of the items, (like maybe what shard they spawned on) you just condescendingly spoke down to me. As someone who collects rare food items (among other things), I said words like "I'm not sure" and "I don't recognize". Instead of respecting that, you chose to argue as if I were attacking you.
    Remember when we first met you were not a rares collector. You were a buy low sell high cross sharder who had sort of fallen into rares. Now you post this type of information as fact without showing where or how you'd even heard of these items in the first place. So for me my response (tagged above) was natural. Your response to me after that was argumentative at best. I posted what I knew, and you tore me down instead of explaining what you knew.
    I'd think I would have seen red peas and helmets and pink arrows before this moment,(been to a lot of rares fests and been reading this forum for the better part of 17 years among other forums and rares lists) but of course there's always a possibility they were squirreled away on an Asian shard for the past 17 years. Certainly you've seen these items first hand to be asking for them and having screenshots of them, so perhaps a better response would have been "Oh Flutter actually I saw these at a friend's house on the Asuka shard last week and he collects server births and says they were from the Hokuto shard back when NPCs were selling odd colored items like on Pacific it was the golden chess boards." instead of responding the way you did. Then my response would have been "wow cool do you think he'd mind if I took a look?" and camaraderie in the rares forum would once again flourish.
     
  31. BrianFreud

    BrianFreud Lead Wiki Mod & Doer of Crazy Things
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    Flutter, I've always been a rares collector. When you and I first met, I'd only recently returned to the game, and was doing the buy low sell high game (plus whatever old gifts I had on shards I didn't play) to raise funds, as I'd let everything idoc when I quit. (And I've told you that, privately, on multiple occasions.)

    Your initial reply came across as a condescending "I don't know these, so prove them". That's not just my take, by the way; I had several ICQs that day while at work, all commenting on your reply. This also is not the first time you've come across this way recently; you did the same in a recent thread about rubbles.

    It was a WTB thread; your continued comments were disruptive to the point where I had to create a whole new WTB thread; what difference to you if you believe the items to be truly created by a Trammel-birth bug, or through some other method? I wasn't asking for comments, I was asking for sellers. Plus, I did provide you with a link to the source; you responded by suggesting these were all from a totally unrelated bug, claiming the source said something it simply doesn't.

    I've never seen several 2010 xmas items in museums or for sale; should I assume they don't exist? Nails made that assumption about a couple listed 2010 xmas robes, based on never having seen them; I pointed him to a museum where they were on display. Will you not allow a WTB thread to occur without there also being proof that the items exist? I have actually seen some of these in game; I've *owned* some of these myself. However, that's the problem when you let all your houses IDOC... you don't still own that stuff when you come back to the game later.
     
    #31 BrianFreud, Jul 6, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2014
  32. BrianFreud

    BrianFreud Lead Wiki Mod & Doer of Crazy Things
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    For the record, here's all of the Tram-births reported, including the one Assia mentioned (which I don't have screenshot of):

    Dark purple[​IMG][​IMG]
    copper key / a bottle of wine
    Purple[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    leg of lamb / a plate helm / ringmail leggings
    Pink[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    arrow / lemon / bowl of carrots / cooked bird
    Orange[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    bloodmoss / chessboard / magic lock
    A deep red[​IMG]
    a plate helm
    Red[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][no picture]
    a strength potion / torch / jointing plane / war axe / bowl of peas / a bottle of liquor
    Blue green[​IMG]
    a bottle of liquor
    Light blue[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    a bottle of ale / bread loaf / pouch
     
  33. Flutter

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    I've gotten ICQs also, about both threads. In fact the word "condescending" doesn't even come from me, it was someone else who mentioned it. What we do on this forum is discuss rares. You opened a post about what you're calling Trammel birth items. Since Trammel was born there have been lots of exploits and unintended "features" in the game that have changed rares quite significantly. I simply stated what I knew to be fact in hope that someone else might pipe in about the items since a couple of them I hadn't seen before. How is me saying I do not recognize the items translate into "I don't know these so prove them"?? Why are you so defensive about the fact that I asked where you were getting the information? I'm sorry but "because I said so" isn't a valid answer. For instance, what shard did the "deep red plate helm" spawn on?

    What's wrong with asking information about the rares you are buying?
    Oh and I did look back on my ICQ history, so I know what that says too.
    Not sure why you've gotten so defensive.
    Over the years a lot of people have put in a lot of hours, not the least of which is Manticore, or Nails Warstein, or Decadence, or JC, to keep track of, categorize and try to keep tabs on the thousands of rare items, keep a history of where they came from, and maybe even a price range/value the items have traded for in the past. People have made their own websites.

    I don't ask about items I know about, and I don't pretend to know about items that I know nothing about.There were discussions going on about the items you posted between myself and quite a few respected members of this community. I didn't go off half cocked and accuse you of making **** up I simply said that *I* was not familiar with them, thinking that you would in the very least have some knowledge of the items aside from the fact that they exist or not. Instead you took some strange road around the discussion and decided I was somehow attacking you. You went on to patronize me saying that the bowl of peas couldn't have had any other name as what would they be selling and rebuying off the vendor with that title.

    I brought up the part in the article you shared about selling and buying back from the NPC because it is mentioned even by the poor translator you used as "I want to clue that you are present two or more at a minimum, and that the property is the same as the NPC sell goods, but, due to the presence of copy goods due to a bug in use, the items can be equipped with all unfortunately now with lowered significantly the value, even met in different colors equipment to new, it has become not know at all whether the copy of something whether the original.
    Copy product may keep the color even while becoming the same properties as the NPC sale goods, in this case, it is fake most insidious"
    Which to me simply translate to "we cant tell the real items from some fake copies anymore" which means that even the writer here can admit that items have been "copied" to create "fakes"and that it's not possible to see the difference between the real and the fake ones. You came back at me with a "no" and then some comment about the bottles that I know for a fact I had that were the Melisande colors without the explosive tag. So now I have to dig deeper in my next post and ask you where the info you have came from since you didn't seem to want to share I had to ask you directly. That turned into some sort of drama filled thing somehow. As if it were a sin to ask someone for more information about a rare they are buying or selling in this forum. Most people try to be friendly and helpful, hell, I thought I was being friendly and helpful.

    That being said I still have never seen a red helmet or peas. Can you please tell me where I can go look at them? I've asked several times and perhaps you thought I was attacking you but I would sincerely like to see them please and thank you. Do you recall what shard the red items originally spawned on?

    I think it's unfair that you've called me disruptive. I think you should go back and read this post from my POV . I simply replied to a thread that was about some items. a few of which I'd never heard of, one of which I'd like to find myself if it exists. Since you say it does I believed you.
     
  34. BrianFreud

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    Flutter, it's quite simple. I said "I want to buy." You've turned that into a giant debate. You didn't ask for info on the items, as you now say. You jumped in saying you doubted the items, that you did not recognize them, and made an incorrect statement of "fact" regarding two of the items. You didn't ask for any info on them. That didn't come until your second reply, when you asked for where the info was from. Then you incorrectly claimed that the page said things it doesn't say.

    I said I want to buy something. You may not know the item(s), but if you don't own them, maybe ask outside of the thread... in ICQ, perhaps. If you have to ask in the thread, actually ask. Don't just start making claims about some items and questioning the existence of others, and in general, trample all over the thread.

    But let's just address your questions...

    First, make up your mind - you're claiming you both did, and did not, ask. You didn't ask at first; you instead made statements about items which, as you say, you knew nothing about. Then when I gave you the link, to a site I know you've been given the address of in the past, you mis-represented what the site flat out says. Then you brought up a completely unrelated bug, and repeatedly attempted to drag this off topic and into that bug:

    I, and Assia as well, am quite aware of the sell/buy bug. Consider... Assia wrote the list of those items, and I've posted there adding new items on several occasions. Yet for some reason, you felt the need to explain that bug to us both, at least twice, even as we were saying that these items specifically were not from that bug.

    Finally...

    Your replies are more than a little snide and rude throughout the thread. People have made websites? Daily rares exist? Sites say things that they actually don't? (And Google translate is a "poor translator"?) Assia and I need an explanation of the bug which the two of us have both documented in this very forum? Do you seriously not see how condescending you're coming across?

    Brian
     
  35. BrianFreud

    BrianFreud Lead Wiki Mod & Doer of Crazy Things
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    I've split this out because I didn't want it drowned out.

    That text is admittedly difficult to parse, with the translation. However, you're missing the takeaway: there is a "real item" in the first place. It doesn't matter if "we cant tell the real items from some fake copies anymore". Just because I can't tell a duped 2-story statue from the real one, that doesn't mean that the 2-story statue doesn't exist, right?

    You've the order of things a bit backwards. You make it seem as though I somehow hid the information. For all I know, it's general knowledge that these are from that Tram-birth bug. You didn't "dig deeper", you asked, for the first time in the thread. The drama came because you were questioning the items before you asked, then after I gave you the link, you kept talking about an entirely unrelated bug, even after multiple different people had confirmed some of the items, esp the bottles.

    But the reason I split this out if that you've said something new, possibly important. The most you'd said earlier about your Mel bottles was "Had quite a few of those lady mel liquors that lost their tags a while back, figured everyone and their mom had them and tossed them for lockdown space (kinda like most of us did with our "fur"s)". Now you've said "I know for a fact I had that were the Melisande colors without the explosive tag". That's two different things...

    All of my Lady Mel bottles still are Lady Mel bottles. The only "it looks explosive" non-Lady Mel bottles I have came from after the change. None of my pre-change bottles got changed. (That'd be like all "A ___ of Exceptional Quality" changing... the devs just don't normally do that.) So you're saying that your Lady Mel bottles not only became "a bottle of liquor" instead, but that they also dropped the "it looks explosive" tag at the same time?
     
    #35 BrianFreud, Jul 6, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2014
  36. 4runnersport

    4runnersport Seasoned Veteran
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  37. Lt.Snuggles

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  38. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    :wall:
    I give up.
    You win whatever it is you're trying to win here Brian. I give.
     
  39. BrianFreud

    BrianFreud Lead Wiki Mod & Doer of Crazy Things
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    I can tryz buy now? Thanks!
     
  40. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    I want you to know that initially I was only trying to look out for you. Community here is important. After asking a few friends if they'd heard of a couple of (again not all) those items and them saying no (people who I feel know more than even me the great and powerful Flutter) I was concerned about fakes and didn't want to see you spending $$ on fake ****. It just turned ugly because it was taken the wrong way. (by both of us?)
     
  41. BrianFreud

    BrianFreud Lead Wiki Mod & Doer of Crazy Things
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    I think so. The way it happened, however, came across a bit differently, and really derailed any chance of my buying anything. You've got my ICQ; if you feel there's a question, you can always get in contact. Questioning first, stating "facts" later, may be a better policy, in future. Doing it the other way around only hurts "community". :)

    I don't think any of us knows every last item in the game; in future, but for every currently known sell/buy (and similar) bug-created item, there's a sticky'd thread of them: http://stratics.com/community/threads/images-of-past-stacking-exploit-items.293465/
     
    #41 BrianFreud, Jul 6, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2014