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Trammelization of Fel and Powerscrolls

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Sevin0oo0, May 10, 2012.

  1. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    Should a Powerscroll Be a power scroll, skill removed? I think they should be more like Stat scrolls. End all the madness of finding the right one, or saving them up, that's bad like BODs. Being an enticement to play in Fel, or bringing a bit of Trammel to Fel?
    My opinion is all champs should appear in both facets, with Fel delivering double the reward. I hear of people complaining about "Fel Yew Gate". When you come thru that gate you are Hidden and should not be discoverable, by any means, unless crossing in a poisoned state, but after that, your own peril, period. I remember as a baby, yell "Time Out!" - that's what these 'safe areas' remind me of, hmmm, just like in Trammel? Should Faction fighting be allowed in Trammel, and lose the right to call guards, unless attacked by a non-faction member (tram only)? Fel to me is like a dungeon, except other players are also mobs. If you can't fight in Tram, you shouldn't be able to equip faction gear there either.
    I thought Fel and Tram were supposed to be mirrors? Where is Malas, and all the others?? What's that little "Fel" area in the Abyss? And I do mean Little - just an attempt at the 'mirror', except Fel got shafted, imo.

    I also think Fel should require "Player Killers"(PK) to allow defeated players to fully recover before attacking them again and end "Rez Killing" or "Griefing" other players. Ditto for Tram, the freshly rezzed should have immunity from attack for a short period, unless they target something. Don't make dieing a grind.
     
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  2. Podolak

    Podolak Crazed Zealot
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    I like the idea of removing the obtaining of all artifacts from Trammel. Need a Crimson? Get it in fel, need a Tangle? Get it in fel. Lets look at Navery. People complain about being griefed there and they can't do anything about it right? If it was a fel rule set they could. Lets make Doom a PvP zone, heck lets make all dungeons pvp zones except legacy dungeons but only allow gold on corpses there. Want that fancy new legendary Shame and Wrong loot? Work for it in a Felucca rule set. Lets make Ilshenar and the Abyss a Fel rule set while we are at it too.

    Where is the fun, where is the challenge? It is in player interaction. Any dungeon, any spawn they come up with people figure out how to solo because it is static, very static. PvP adds a dynamic element to things. I am sure I'll hear "play on Siege" and that is definitely a good option for some people. However, I think the regular production shards need a bit of an attitude adjustment that has been long over due.

    Just my .02 no one has to agree and likely no one will.
     
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  3. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    No, No and No again to all of the above
     
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  4. Driven Insane

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    I think everything should be obtainable in both rulesets, but the Fel side would increase your chances by at least double.

    Personally I really wish they would have added a mirrored SA dungeon in Fel. I am so tired of little &*!^%$#'s coming in at the last minute and killing the boss I just spent 20-30 minutes getting up.

    And once again this is just another of those idiotic inconsistencies from our Devs. For example why are there a couple of the Peerless available in both facets, but not all.
     
  5. Podolak

    Podolak Crazed Zealot
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    While I am ranting, it stinks that we can't do the Summon Fey quest on a red. Reds like pixies too.
     
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  6. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Well kiddo here is the jist of it.
    The Mythic gods feel that Fel has its place and is just fine. It is for those who wish the old ways and the hint of danger it gives them. Fel gives double resources, sooo its good for all.

    Reality is Fel was fine way back in 1997-9, when players were only born in fel and learned how to survive there. When they opened up Tram there was a inital rush to tram to get prime spots. The slow trickle of the rest leaving was due to the onslaught of the thieves and pks who haunted the gates. When they gave you moonstones it was a relief to get out of dodge! I kept my fel homes as I worked hard to get them to begin with. But I could see the alure of Tram. No more risk of loosing all you had gained cause a thief got your house key... or your boat key. You could walk outside chop a tree or mine some ore and not have to have a army guard you while doing it. Not to mention the average joe who hunts the dungeons not only having to watch their backs from the monsters (some called the reds and pks monsters too) life in fel was not all roses old players picture. But it was how we anchients learned to live in uo.

    Truthfully if the Dev was smart the set up for a better use of fel would be that a system of attack could be used for the pk /thief /red. Say your attacked by a red (random choie here) ok, now what... he kills you or your lucky to ether kill him or get away. A timer will go off the minute he goes into attack mode he has 10 minutes to ether kill just you or wait till he can attack another player. 1 person hunting ...pick a target thats your quarry. No multi targets just the one you picked and you get only that 1 untill the timer is up. 1 kill period. Well its an idea Fel is under used and no mater how many scoobie snacks you say are there you are not getting the mass uo population who is left down there!

    UO dev's made it so any red/thief guild in fel could raid a spawn to their hearts content and controll the scroll market... they made millions in rl cash as a good deal of them saw a way to do it with EA's blessing~ There was a easy fix that would have put a crimp on the deals but again just because it was a fel exclusive nope the scrolls would stay in fel.
    Big deal? Yes it was a big deal. I watched company after company who provided the scrolls and resources from the game to players at such prices not to mention the gold sales....
    EA missed a big oppertunity there to make the money these places did, and still do. Well not as much as before with the low population as we have now. Now where do you think they got this stuff from?? hmmmmm thats right think hard...
    Not just scripters were hunting in fel. Lets just say EA didnt have its finger on the ball on this one.

    On many shards I play and have a nice time but I look at the empty citys and even the empty state of luna and wonder how could it get so low in players playing uo... 50% is EA but the other 50% is us.
    We make the game, players not the dev or gms. We do. Have we forgot how to self govern? I have not steped out of the yew gate in fel in 8 years....it was a death sentence. Why? Players made it so. Then why cant players govern the way factions and pks work. Thiefs could be given limits. I guess what I am saying is take back our game and make it work, tell the ones who left come back we are fixing it Why depend on a dev to do what we can do ourselves? (hehe ok soap box away)


    Look sugar I'd love to say come to fel and the factions/reds/pks/thiefs bit will be fixed so it has a playable base but not one who will over run the people. But that is a big dream. Fel wil remain uo's vast waste land of unused space. I do miss the players i use to know who would come to occelo bank and talk. Or the Brit bank croud you could hardly get a pony through...
     
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  7. You should really ask for a refund on your two cents.
     
  8. Podolak

    Podolak Crazed Zealot
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    I feel it is money well spent.
     
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  9. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    Let's look at players. Neither of those would be a big deal, had it not been for the urging of players? I think it was a mistake. Remember the Woodland Belt, the one that never was, because of being Race specific? but we now have Garg only items? Two mistakes and unnecessary complications. Aprons with stats, are they "OP" just because players say so, should have been left alone, a minor artie.



    oh, btw, I just sold a CC the other day on my vendor, 15K i think - and not by mistake either, I first thought 1mil, then naw, just dump it.
     
  10. Ivor_MacGregor

    Ivor_MacGregor Journeyman

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    Everyone so far has made valid points. However, I have to say it is my experience that the more rewards you place within Fel the greater complaining you will get from folks in Trammel. In other words, more risk does not equal more rewards in the eyes of folks these days.

    A poster made a good point - we make of the game what we wish. YOU don't have to sale that ridiculously over priced crimson cinture for 15million gold. You can sell it for what it is really worth. Will someone else take advantage of your sell? Of course. But, they can't take advantage if enough stop going with the crowd :)
     
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  11. Ivor_MacGregor

    Ivor_MacGregor Journeyman

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    While I disagree with the OP here, meaning the one who wants items like CC and Tangle to be available in Felucca, I do understand where he is coming from. He wants to see Felucca active again. He wants to see that element of UO that once made it...well, difficult. The element I am talking about is the unexpected actions of other players. The fact is most people enjoy a safer environment. They want a static world. This is just a reality the developers faced when creating Trammel. Of course, there are very specific changes that COULD be done to better allow UO to follow the Ultima lore. For those that were not around, Richard Garriot (the creator of UO) did not forsee player killing. But he created that dynamic for the very reason to allow players to make their own world. He put the tools int he hands of the players. EA DID do something right when they made the enhanced client with the ability to customize the user interface. One just has to take a look at Pinco's UI to see the success of this.

    But come on, lets be honest here. UO is so far from Ultima lore that I feel it will forever be an ugly duckling. One only has to take a look at the elven race, bushido, etc. to see this. Regardless, it is still the Ultimate online game, or at least so far. One day, there will be another MMO genius or even Richard Garriot himself, whom will create the next generation of an Ultimate Online Game. This person will create the game not in pursuit of financial gain, but in pursuit of gaming itself. Minecraft came close, but is still missing the key genius element that Richard harnessed with UO. What today's MMO companies do not yet realize is that the primary goal of financial gain will hold them back. Such a game will have the most devoted and hardcore following ever yet seen. You think WoW and several first person shooter games broke records? Just wait, you have not seen anything yet. Hence why WoW, Star wars, and countless others will never EVER be the Ultimate Online game. Their creation was not made for the sole purpose of gaming, but rather for financial profit and market exploitation. They will become dust in the wind eventually.
     
  12. I understand wanting to see Felucca active again, and well, I'd like to see Trammel active again also! But, making players the targets of PK's and Griefers with a monopoly on all artifacts, just isn't going to attract more players to Felucca. I think it would be the end of UO.

    You said it yourself, "more risk does not equal more rewards in the eyes of folks these days." Risk versus Rewards never worked well. It was worth a try, but it didn't then, and still doesn't work now. Increasing Risks/Rewards isn't going to make the situation better, it will just tick off players like me and give them the final excuse to leave.

    All this argument comes down to is PK's in Felucca wanting new/more targets. And that won't work for the majority of players who for one reason or another, don't want to PvP. Some people just don't seem to understand that. I could see giving different artifacts (but not better) to Felucca than Trammel, but moving all artifacts to Felucca is a bad, bad idea.
     
  13. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    Go play a Blizzard game....this is UO, sweety. The whole goal is to make changes but keep it as the same game...not make a clone of something else. That was the one element that made UO different from all the others was the freedom to do as you choose. There have already been more than enough nerfs and "changes" that have slowly morphed it into something that's controlled and regulated.
     
  14. Mirt

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    It would shut down the game. Risk vs reward doesn't really work. Someone goes out and does something for hours. They get what they want and then are attacked. If they live and get out they got what they want and they either get away or get the PKs insurance money. If the PK wins they are out hours of work. The PK really doesn't risk anything. Now if they want to make it so that reds cannot have insurance and drop all their items when they die. Well today that would work and it would be risk vs reward. Sadly that is not going to happen. Therefore its critical to leave trammel in. The game almost died without it in the first place the idea of getting rid of it well take a look at fel. No matter what you do only the folks that are already there are going to be there. There is no real desire by the bulk of the player base to go there. Its time to realize that pvp has its core supporters and while some may come back it's not going to suddenly massively increase. All attempting to force people into that style will do is have them quit.
     
  15. Redxpanda

    Redxpanda Lore Keeper
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    I couldn't have said it better myself. When Powerscrolls were moved there, the argument was that only people who engage in PvP really needed them so you had to fight for them. That was accepted and it turned into come to this designated area and become targets of pk guilds. PK guilds horded the scrolls and sold them from their Luna houses. Slowly but surely groups and guilds kept at it until the pk guilds got tired of killing us and their numbers dwindled for many reasons. Fel is a deserted wasteland now so i don't see the point of trying to revive it. It was a bad idea then and it would be a bad idea now. If people do not want to engage in PvP, forcing them to do it for skill gain or artifacts or whatever else wont make them enjoy it.
     
  16. Podolak

    Podolak Crazed Zealot
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    My post was more of a fictitious dream. One I am fond of but a dream none the less. I actually agree that if my dream became reality there is a good chance it would be the end of UO. However, I can still dream darnit!

    I take a different stance. It has been more fun lately to protect the blues being raided than actually raid them. It makes for a much more interesting fight. I am gods honest the worst mage on all UO servers combined. However, I still love playing a mage and for some reason with a mystic mage I can actually not only survive but keep others alive too. Its like my perfect UO role come to reality, the wandering healer. I've just been supporting the group that seems to need the most help. So if more non-felucca oriented blues come to Felucca then more "ebil PK's" bother to log in and kill them then more reason for me and a few others to try and help protect them. Everyone wins if that situation happens and by no means am I saying it actually would, again just a dream. If Felucca becomes over run with blues I go back to raiding.
     
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  17. Rusko

    Rusko Guest

    No one forces you to go to fel... IF you want one of the items available in Fel, go get it...If you don't wanna put fourth the risk, spend your gold in luna and buy the item from someone who does wanna put fourth the risk.
     
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  18. Don't Tread on Me

    Don't Tread on Me Lore Keeper
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    I think that if the trammies of today decided that they wanted to "blue it up" in fel, then they probably could. If you gate blue pvpers and all the trammies, they would outnumber the reds in fel. Not to mention that a lot of reds are factioned, so they have oj's as enemy #1 to contend with first, before dealing with blues. People keep saying "thieves." There aren't a lot anymore. No fun, not much to steal. A lot of pvpers today aren't so much PKers, but rather people who want to pvp. I have red chars, and the kills aren't from me thumping some poor dude in fel drowning not knowing how to pvp, but rather fights against others for the sake of fighting. On chessy, I see a couple of blue guilds be fairly successful venturing into fel and conquering spawns etc. They've even developed into somewhat pvp guilds with reds showing up now again. Granted, they can't hang during prime time, but they're there.

    Main point: If more blue guilds went into fel and learned to fight there, things would be better. Yes, there would be fighting, but most guilds today want the fight, not to "dominate the shard" and dumb crap like that. btw, look at faction fighters today, there are TONS of blues running around.
     
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  19. Mirt

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    So far in my experience that has not been the case. While I do enjoy working fel spawns with my alliance and find it fun sometimes it can be a real pain. There is a xerg aspect to pvp anymore. Its also far easier to raid then it is to complete and hold imho. While I love most of the Chesy pvpers (don't tell them that either don't want them thinking that they are liked) they have their rules and I wouldn't count on any of them if with their guild to not raid. Now some of them if they are alone they are more then welcome to join us. Many of them are critical parts of what makes Chesy fun. Most of ours are also not crazy monsters they just like to fight. There are plenty that fight fair and I love going head to head with them as we can end up having hours of fun. The LD guys and the DOTA guys spring to mind first. I am assuming PITS is the same but I have never seen them raid so its hard to say. UHOH was great that way too but most of them seemed to have moved on. I do look forward to CHAMPS coming back and had hopes of fel getting interesting with MM but it seems many shard hop to often to make a real impact on any one shard. That seems to be the fate of pvp for the most part these days, changing shards to move with the limited pvp base.
     
  20. Rusko

    Rusko Guest

    Fel is what this game was created around, so how is putting everything in tram so Fel dies "keeping it as the same game"
     
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  21. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    It's one of the negatives of being red. Since the beginning of the game they have removed pretty much all the negatives of being red. I remember reds crying because they could only bank in bucs den.... you chose to be red.
     
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  22. Mirt

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    And that model was failing. Saying it was better back in the day doesn't work. In fact no game since has used that model and they chose not to for a reason. It was a model that didn't work then and it will not work now. Folks don't want that style of play and attempting to force it down their throats will have them leave. Fel will be deader because there will be no fel, in fact there will be no UO.
     
  23. Rusko

    Rusko Guest

    You wanting something that's available @ Walmart... But to get to Walmart, you have to cross a very poorly built bridge that looks (and may actually be) very dangerous...

    So you wanting this item easily, is translated: "going to fel to get it as Shoving it down your throat"
     
  24. Rusko

    Rusko Guest

    There needs to be a balance, of the two.
    Fel should have perks for it's visit, as should tram...

    But, When DEVs created a competition between the 2, this is where the ACTUAL FAILURE started...
     
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  25. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable
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    No we have been responding to someone saying they should take everything out of trammel and making all the new content fel based. We are simply pointing out that trammel is where the population is and its not because of artifacts. Its that the vast majority of players do not like pvp. What your saying is that we are going to tear down the good bridge so that the only way you can get to wallmart is this crazy unsafe bridge because we have the toll on that bridge.
     
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  26. This is one of the people who "doesn't get it."
     
  27. Rusko

    Rusko Guest

    I'm sure the choice to obtain an item is yours... you dont NEED anything.. you WANT it... if you WANT it.. EARN it...

    This is what happened to UO... EM Events are perfect example... what happens after EVERY event no matter the shard or faucet? Everyone says, "WHAT DROPPED? WHAT DO WE GET?"

    Everyone expects too much to be handed to them risk and skill free
     
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  28. Rusko

    Rusko Guest

    I don't think it should be ALL good stuff in fel. I agree on balance, some stuff is available ONLY in fel, some stuff ONLY in Tram...

    I think making items available in Tram and Fel is what pulled people out of Fel... (well i can go get the same thing risk free in tram" *Kal Ort Por*
     
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  29. Podolak

    Podolak Crazed Zealot
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    I don't disagree with you, just dreaming! Reds can't use most virtues either, which can be a pita.
     
  30. Mirt

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    There are already things that are only in fel. They are called stat and skill scrolls. Did that bring people back to fel? No. So now you want to take more things from where people are to try and force them back. People are telling you no. If you want fel only I believe that Siege is a great option for you. In fact I have heard it is doing better you might want to try playing there as opposed to attempting to control what everyone else does.
     
  31. I agree with you there.

    But to your other posts, this has nothing to do with wanting anything for free... nothing to do with shiny's from EM events... nothing to do with free handouts. We are NOT saying Trammel should be risk free. Those arguments are unrelated.
     
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  32. Mirt

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    It can be but being red is a choice and choices have conquences. Your dream maybe a dream to you but you admit its a nightmare to most. Thats why folks are coming out against your dream. Again though Siege might be a good place to check out for those that this is their dream, it is an all fel ruleset. With no insurance everyone has risk no matter what they are doing. I am sure more players there will make it more vibrant.
     
  33. Podolak

    Podolak Crazed Zealot
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    I don't mind differences of opinion but make no mistake I am not trying to control what everyone else does. I am simply sharing my views. If I worked for EA and these were my opinions you might have a problem. However, I am NOT an EA employee. I am simply a player with ZERO influence over what anyone does sharing HIS views only.
     
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  34. Mirt

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    @ Podolak
    I am not suggesting that you shy away from sharing your views just like I have been doing. The discontent has come to show the devs that others disagree with them. I then offered a suggestion on a place where your dream might already be possible. Our ideas do make it to the devs and they do listen. Thats why we all chime in.
     
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  35. Podolak

    Podolak Crazed Zealot
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    Good man, I was hoping for a bit of a debate which is why I made the suggestion so outlandish.

    Now let me ask you this, why might you suppose that the most popular "alternate" server (the dreaded topic we all are supposed to avoid) is Felucca only and also has an average of 1k+ players a day during peak times?
     
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  36. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    Ivor_MacGregor Said: The fact is most people enjoy a safer environment. They want a static world."
    I think they enjoy a controlled environment, with rules applied being static. Rules in beta or Pre-Pub I can see, otherwise you'll end up making rules for your rules, changing all the time.
    Mirt said: "Now if they want to make it so that reds cannot have insurance
    I don't think there should be insurance in Fel at all. I thought insurance was born for Trammel?

    altho another subject, while I'm all for blues and reds, I'm not for perma red, Chose it yes, because you enjoy the PVP aspect, and the only way to fix is is delete the character because of legal game mechanics and start over? Some folks like it, just like some don't, some like being Crafters, That's UO, it caters to multiple playstyles, regardless of who the majority is, then getting them to all mesh well is the tough part.
    Heck, I'm not sure I like perma blue either - I actually believed when I reached the top fame/karma level that I'd be attackable by the opposite, IN Tram.
     
  37. Mirt

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    I would say thats its free. Also I would say why would they pay if they are getting what they want for free.
     
  38. Mirt

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    Sevin
    No there is insurance in fel. I am just saying that the idea of risk vs reward isn't accurate. The raider doesn't really risk anything but a few k of gold. The raided risks all the time they have invested. Therefore if you lose you lose all you have done and the raider gets everything. This has actually always tipped the scale in favor of the raiders. It was what led to the creation of trammel. So I said that for risk vs reward to be true have it that murders cannot have insurance. That would make it so that if you wanted to push more fel it might work. As now those that raid risk thier suits and weapons. It would add risk all around. That being said I don't think that most players would go for that.
     
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  39. Podolak

    Podolak Crazed Zealot
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    I thought you might bring up because its free. But then why is a felucca only one the most popular? There are certainly free trammel ones.
     
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  40. Rusko

    Rusko Guest

    I never said taking anything away was the way to fix people not coming into fel. I said on future items, we should maybe stop having tram and fel compete cause like electricity, People will take the path of less resistance, being tram. This is what pulled people out of Fel.
     
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  41. Mirt

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    I would say that there aren't great numbers for things like that. Also I would say that I am nervous talking about that on stratics as it is against the rules. I would also say that my limited understanding of that is that the biggest ones are trammel based.
     
  42. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable
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    I would say that adding more unique content to fel hasn't worked in the past and is unlikely to work in the future. Therefore its not worth hassling the vast majority of players in the attempt to get more folks into fel.
     
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  43. outcry

    outcry Lore Master
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    The game back in 1997 only had Fel, It was the players who cannot pvp that whined and complained that brought about Trammel which brought about all which you are all complaining about now............. It should be as the game begin Fel ruleset for all facets.. Learn to swim or die like we all did back then............sorry if all you people who need to be coddled cannot hack it but damn after 15 years either get with it or shut up.. Everything you Tram people have complained about has ruin certain aspects of the game... oh no that thief stole my house key or boat key or item..... this thiefs now have no use... I am sorry but you people in tram who only want rainbow and bunnies and all things that are nice need to go to another game..........This my 2cents worth............
     
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  44. Mirt

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    Your right trammel has been here now for how many years.
     
  45. Rusko

    Rusko Guest

    once again... I didn't say PUT RARES IN FEL! blah blah

    I agree with, Red's Lose Insurance Rights... That's a great balance, that when deciding on attacking a blue, must be weighed.

    but, I think if you make it EASIER to obtain certain items (Less skill, Less Time, Less hp for boss, or more chance of drops) in fel, Then it would give more balance to the player having to decide:

    "Okay, I need this item, i can get it easier in Fel with the risk of getting raided or killed. Or I can get it in tram and it will take a bit more time and work, with no risk of losing anything"

    Would that not possibly balance the situation?
     
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  46. outcry

    outcry Lore Master
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    you guys have Tram, Malas, Ishenar, Tokuno , and Ter Mur, 5 facets in which you can get anything in game but powerscrolls and play safely , leave us our one last bone of what we have for Fel...............I know you want your cake and be able to eat it as well....... well sorry in order to eat the cake you have to live through fel first............
     
  47. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    Thanks Mirt, as Trammel born and raised, I really didn't know the insurance.
    And just so my original point isn't misunderstood, trammelization isn't about turnimg Fel into another Tram, Far from it. Maybe I should have said the Corruption of Fel with Trammel ways.
     
  48. Podolak

    Podolak Crazed Zealot
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    I too am nervous even broaching topic and am trying my darndest to stay inside the RoC. What I will say though is the biggest is Felucca only. Besides if we step over the line we'll get the hurt stick and lick our wounds!
     
  49. Mirt

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    @ rusko
    I think its somewhat like that but adding in more facets can be highly problematic when it comes to additional facets.
    @ outcry
    If someone is campaigning to get rid of pvp and fel altogether I will stand with you. I like playing in fel sometimes and while I am not there all the time I enjoy going there for pvp. I came up in fel. That being said the idea that its a good idea to turn the new content into fel only is a terrible idea and that I am against.
     
  50. Rusko

    Rusko Guest

    I'm pretty sure what you quoted me saying was to try to get people BACK into fel, not make it go away... Please review my post you quoted.