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Trapped Boxes: Really?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Locryn Finck, Mar 13, 2010.

  1. Locryn Finck

    Locryn Finck Guest

    As everyone knows, the new trend in pvp is to forgo resist on a dexxer template, thus freeing up space for some crazy offensive combo. This is possible thanks to re-useable tinker trapped boxes which must be facing a certain direction in your backpack to work properly. Make a UOA use object macro, and boom. You have an anti paralyze method. Apples, petals, etc on top of that makes sure you compensate.

    So it all basically hinges on these boxes. Which leads to one simple question:

    Is that working as intended, or a bug that just doesn't get fixed? And again, to be clear - I am speaking about trapped, unlimited use crates.
     
  2. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Well.... you want to talk about unlimited use.... look at Mages with their 100% LRC,...... Dexers with sword in hand can go for hours and hours.....

    Then you look at Archers.... I've got X number of shots and then that's it.... no more....

    So don't cry to me about unlimited use.... I really don't want to hear it.
     
  3. Locryn Finck

    Locryn Finck Guest

    Beside the point and irrelevant to my question. I am simply trying to determine if this is working as an intended game mechanic, or is a bug. Sorry if that offends you.
     
  4. SixUnder

    SixUnder Legendary Assassin
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    its is a crafted box

    gm made which makes it lockable

    and trapped with skill with a dart trap

    nothing illegal about it, and thats how they are suppose to work. people use them to pvp with. there is nothing wrong with using what the game gives us.
     
  5. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Lol new trend? This has being around since aos came out. So it's working as it should be. Just like recalling on top of banks,grabing daily rares from areas etc.. Now which group of dev inteded it? Was it the first group,second group,3rd group,4th group or our new group thats being at it for 2 months or so. Where have you being?
     
  6. Locryn Finck

    Locryn Finck Guest

    I appreciate the answer, but that was all information I already stated and know.

    Let me attempt to put this as clearly as I can:

    The elements of the trapped box that seem "buggy" would suggest that it is an uncorrected mistake or oversight as opposed to a legitimate and preconceived mechanic.

    These include:

    *The direction the box must be facing in your pack.

    *The unlimited nature of it's use.

    I'm not hating on those who use it (I have them), but I think it doesn't get discussed openly enough.

    Is it a bug that it must be facing a certain way in your pack to be used an unlimited number of times? It sure seems so.
     
  7. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    No it's the nature of many items in UO. It's just how it is. like grabing a daily rare basket by placing nightshade underneath it to move it of it's axis so that you can take it.
     
  8. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    It isn't only the case with dart trap boxes. It can also be done with poison trap boxes as well as explosion traps.

    I believe there is a bug here as it is dependent on the box's position. One position it isn't an unlimited trap whereas the other position it is. Now the real question would be is it a bug that makes it so the trap is unlimited only in one spot or limited in one spot?

    So should the trap be unlimited in all positions or should it be limited?
     
  9. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    Large crate type boxes aren't affected by the direction they're facing, so, even if they "correct" the "glitchy" nature, large boxes will still work.

    The problem lies in them nerfing trapped boxes for lower damage, para breaks when you take damage, so, logically, people used it to break para. What's the big problem? Oh my god, someone's using an item to break one magery spell that's made completely useless by a single skill anyway.

    Trap boxes themselves aren't "overpowered."

    The only reason anyone mentions it is either they can't fight someone who can't be para'd , or they're eluding to them using Resist spells while there are ways to get around not having the skill.

    Personally, I think the skill should just be revamped, make it more useful, IE adds damage resistance to spells or something, I don't know, I don't get paid to come up with revamping ideas.
     
  10. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Seems to me they left it in when they fixed them to do more damage because they realized Paralyze was ridiculously overpowered and didn't want to fix that.
     
  11. I would say this.. if you are paralyzed you can not move.. Thus you should not be able to drink potions, use a bandage, OPEN a create. This would not balance the game IMHO. There are so many issues that cause pvp imbalance. This IS one of those things that add to the weight of the imbalance.
     
  12. Picus of Napa

    Picus of Napa Slightly Crazed
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    Free to be used by anyone with any temp.

    My dexxers use them in pvp and pvm some have 120 resist some don't, my tamer uses them in pvm, my mage uses them and has 120 resist, my mules carry one even though they never leave the house or the bank.
     
  13. Lefty

    Lefty Lore Keeper
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    It is a bug that did not get fixed. Here are some facts and history.

    From 98 to T2A expansion. House security was limited to a key and a locked door on your house. Security on house containers were limited to key and lock.

    Anyone could walk in any house that was unlocked and not banned from the house. Anyone who stole a key not banned had access to the house.

    Traps were an option to place on containers.

    At the time the container didn't need to be locked. It didn't need to be a lockable container.

    Traps were put into place to deter stealing and protect belongings.

    However Traps were turned into a griefing tool. Blowing up players in town, out of town, in dungeons etc.

    PUBLISH 4 MARCH 8, 2000

    Tinker traps will be modified. Their purpose will be to protect containers and their creation will no longer give the maker a murder count.

    * A trapped chest cannot be opened until the trap is disarmed and the lock removed, except:
    o The owner of the chest can access the chest automatically without firing the trap. The owner is defined as the last person to lock the chest.
    * Using the key on the chest will bypass the trap.
    * The lock on a trapped chest cannot be picked until the trap is disarmed.
    o A failed disarm attempt will result in setting off the trap.
    + A trap that is set off will reset itself automatically indefinitely.
    + Damage from a trap will not cause the maker of the trap to be a candidate for a murder count.
    o Disarming the chest will not automatically unlock it.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    actualy FYI there are 2 exploits that need to be done to make these..
    first off, you dont make them gm made, you make them 70s skill. just barley enough to make them with locks.
    second you dont set the trap with a gm skill, you use the lowest possible skill allowed to make the trap then use a high tali to give you a more then 0% chance to do it.
    then you have to "bug" the box by means of a special way to make these work without being locked and to have unlimited uses..

    these boxes are intended to KILL YOU when set off. but because of the FIRST EXPLOIT they dont.
    these boxes arent even supposed to go off unless they are LOCKED but because of the SECOND EXPLOIT they do even unlocked with no delay and unlimited uses.
     
  15. SixUnder

    SixUnder Legendary Assassin
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    still just part of the game man. they are made with no low skill level so what? low skill level low damage. just game mechanics
     
  16. Capt.E

    Capt.E Guest

    Since omen + paralyze = death on any template. There should be a counter to this. nuff said. E
     
  17. Lefty

    Lefty Lore Keeper
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    I will agree that EO+para is overpowered, but going with EA's past interpretation is using a bug while giving an unfair advantage is an exploit.

    This is what they said about trapped pouches, thus they increased their damage.

    If there was an ingame item like a potion of paralyze protection, a amulet etc then there would be no argument. But trap boxes were not designed to break paralyze.

    However I am aware of how difficult it is to make a well balanced warrior type character. When publish 46 came a long with the requirement to have tactics for special moves it made a tough choice as far as squeezing in skills such as resist, healing+anat, and parry.
     
  18. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Not EA interpretation. I be surprise they even remmeber Ultima is still here.Just the group of DEV or a DEV in charge of that specific area at that time. Then another DEV didn't agree and probably took over that area of content and left the other way in. It's all at there whims you know. Different DEV take different stance. A group of dev likes tamers more so they buff them up give them new pets. Then another group of DEV hates tamers so thet nerf them. Alldepends how much each dev plays and who is in charge of what that year, how many co workers agree or disagree and what each one can get away with. Tommorrow they can ban all swords if they want and allow airplanes. It's up to them.
    uoassit,Purple sigil items,html on signs,luring,thief class,8x8,anti macro code,those black horses come to mind first. It's like a basement and the dev own little world. Unfortunetly for them the accountents come in and the bigger boys in charge send a little review of there work. Which in turn comes layoffs,cut corners,replacements and so forth that we see every now and then.
     
  19. Lefty

    Lefty Lore Keeper
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    True
     
  20. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    From what I know, traps are scaled upon the makers skill, so using a low skill tinker to make a weak trap isn't an exploit.

    Also, if memory serves, if you just make a crate, you don't really have to do anything glitchie, you only need to do that with the turnable versions, IE , the non square ones.

    So at best, there is only one exploit at work here, if you're right and i'm wrong. However, judging by lefty's patch notes, they're SUPPOSED to have unlimited uses and the owner isn't supposed to set off the trap, but there are easy ways to get around that, ie, buy one.
     
  21. Lefty

    Lefty Lore Keeper
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    When you make a trap box, lock & arm the trap and try to open it you get the message it appears to be locked. That is with both positions. When you cast unlock on it, that is when it gets bugged. Both positions give the same message, but in the west/east position the trap goes off.

    It seems that the bug lays in the tinker code.
     
  22. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    I don't think that's a bug either. When you use the key, you disable the trap, when you magic unlock it, you don't disable the trap so it should go off. Square crates don't seem to be effected by direction and never got one that stopped working. Think the people say "exploit" Is because the smaller rectangular crate doesn't go off when facing a certain direction and don't consider that it not going off is the bug?
     
  23. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Square crates is still affected by direction. You just cant see which way they are facing which is also why people tries to stay away from that type of container. Your large crate works either direction statement is false. The easiest way to test this is make one and lock it down on your floor and turn it with house decorating tool, one direction it will say the box is locked and the other it darts you. Just as buggy as small crates.

    Trapped crates is indeed a bug. However it's a "tolerated bug" just like changeling dupes and sigil hued items. Also the tbox damage is lessened because now people can use tinker talisman and use a tinker with 0.2% chance to make a tbox (30% talisman makes it 30.2%). Instead of making 2 boxes out of 1000 attempts talisman made it 1 in 3 attempt while keeping the low damage.

    Before you get all defensive because people stating a clearly "bugged item" a "bug" because you dont want them fixed... I do use them. They are not only effective against mages, they are good against ALL PARALYSIS in UO. Dexer para blows and nerve strike ignores my 120 resist which is why I carry a box even if I have 120 resist.

    Fixing tbox will indeed eliminate a lot of dexer gimplets but they will have to come up a way to let people unpara without skill.

    IMO the easiest way is to increase the damage slightly.
     
  24. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    If they really want to "fix" them, all they need to do is put a delay for the damage effect from the trap. 1 second delay, 2 second, whatever.
     
  25. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    I put up a post in the Ask the Dev's forum about putting uses on these items comparable to the crafter's skill. 1-10 uses and low damage on lesser quality boxes, and then more uses 10-20 with greater damage for more skilled crafter's. Of course they'd modify it to how they see it fit. Still no post back on it though... go figure.

    I posted a fix for the confidence spell too. It'd make players stand still to gain the HP regen benefit of the skill therefore implying they're confident while using the skill. Unlike it is now where the "honorable samurai" runs away cowardly using confidence to heal. No reply to that post either :(.
     
  26. Megilhir

    Megilhir Guest

    Buy scroll from any mage

    Magic Trap a pouch inside your pack.

    Click pouch if para'd.

    Done.
     
  27. RawHeadRex

    RawHeadRex Slightly Crazed
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    ain't that the truth ... :thumbup1:
     
  28. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Wow confidence? You getting a little over the top there. I think you might want to stay away from dev for a while till you see a professional. Really the DEV need too stay away from these forums completely if they want the game to last.
     

  29. Are you poops in disguise?


    Trapped boxes and Confidence are working as intended. No exploits happening here. Move on please, you're blocking traffic.
     
  30. Lefty

    Lefty Lore Keeper
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    Trapped boxes are bugged

    That bug is being used to exploit
    game mechanics.

    The use of trap boxes were not made to be used in that manner.

    If I used a bug to dupe gold and items would that be ok?

    Only when a bug or unfair advantage favors a player do they support it.
     
  31. The only bug is in the fact that the trap doesn't trigger when facing any direction. If you want to fix that, then go right ahead, it would make a lot of people happy. Nothing is being used to exploit so quit trying to dramatize this non-issue. There are much more important things for our very small Dev team to be working on.
     
  32. Lefty

    Lefty Lore Keeper
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    Clearly you do not know the mechanics. Look at the patch notes.

    To put it simply. When you double click a trapped box it does not suppose to set off the trap.

    I am not dramatizing this, just pointing out the facts. If this threatens your game play fixing this bug, oh well.
     
  33. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Which group of dev patch notes? You know if they get rid of that they will end up nerfing necro and mages and nerve strike to oblivion right? They don't stop with just one spell you know.
     
  34. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    It's a bug, and making them is an exploit, but it is a bug that the devs decided not to fix, and an exploit that they have said is ok. It's part of the game now, as is the case with so many other things that started that way.
     
  35. Ralco

    Ralco Guest

    If a Miasma box doesn't kill me why should a silly little tinker box kill me?

    This has been going on since day 1. Before there were tinker traps we used the magic trap spell on pouches.

    If there is some trick to make a trapped chest unlimited use then that is an issue. Although someone claims the large crates are all unlimited use without any trick. If so make the others all unlimited use.
     
  36. Locryn Finck

    Locryn Finck Guest


    Yeah, that IS the issue. I don't think anybody has an issue with the functionality - IE: Damaging yourself to break paralyze. Trapped pouches, lesser poison, etc. have always been around for that purpose. It just seems pretty obvious that these crates and boxes come from a bug. So yes, right now everybody should use it. Even if you have resist on your template, still pack one around. It is required to counter certain combos. But I think there is a much more elegant solution out there.