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Uh Oh, I got a bad feeling about this.

Discussion in 'UO Bard' started by Luke Carjacker, Apr 30, 2010.

  1. Here's a quote from the new Producer's Letter posted today 4/30:

    "On the Bard front … there will be a new quest for the three Masteries of Provocation, Peacemaking, and Discordance … the details of each of these Masteries will follow as the respective quests and balancing for each of them make their way to Test Center."

    My immediate conclusion is that his isn't going to be good for bards. Is there any other skill or profession that requires a quest to achieve "mastery"? I know that you have to do a quest before you can train spellweaving, but this sounds like something quite different. To me, this sounds like they're going to make legendary bards jump through some hoops in order to be "masters" again.

    The quest part I'm actually not that worried about; and if it comes with some type of item that helps bards, then they won't get any complaints from me. The part that scares the bejesus out of me is the "balancing for each" that they have planned. Last time they "balanced" bard skill it was a colossal nerf - and in terms of provoke maybe the biggest nerf in the history of UO, before or since. I'm scared to death that bard skills will be totally useless after they get done balancing.

    So, I have a plea to the developers for whatever they are planning, there are very very few bards around these days, and those that still trudge along are limited to specific uses. If bards skills are overpowered, people would flock to them (see all the archer/sampire/necro templates that people have flooded). Bards have already been completely eliminated from PvP because their skills don't function at all. Even in PvM, bard skills are only useful as support and countless other templates are more useful in doing damage, getting drops, etc.

    So please, please, please, don't nerf a skill that players have largely already left for dead. I'm begging.
     
  2. Lady Laurel

    Lady Laurel Seasoned Veteran
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    That doesnt sound too good to me, either. :sad3: More information would have been better than leaving our imaginations running wild until they post.

    My main as of lately has been my peace tamer, but I just dusted off my bard to have some fun again.
     
  3. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    I was thinking it was more like after attaining master in any one of the skills you can do a quest to obtain possibly more uses for the skill! sort of like mason or glass blowing , for example some group uses in pvp/factions maybe?
     
  4. Lady Laurel

    Lady Laurel Seasoned Veteran
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    Now that would be a really cool addition!!

    I just get really nervous when they talk about balancing anything, it tends to do bad things sometimes
     
  5. noshroud

    noshroud Guest

    They could be newbie quests, as bards are the only major profession with any accelerated skill gain quests.
     
  6. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
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    well that and tamers.
     
  7. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    I don't remember anyone saying anything about "balancing" bards.
    :stir:
     
  8. Well that's a relief Logrus. After going back and re-reading the Producer's letter, I guess the message could be that the new quests need to be balanced before they are introduced and not that bard skills will be balanced.

    So um, while you're here... care to give us any hints on what is coming? :)
     
  9. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    Well what is not coming is my samurai pig. I didnt get approval because he 2-hitted the slasher of veils and I'm not supposed to make stuff that powerful. :lie:

    j/k



    I'm giving bards some -special- attention. Some people from SA beta or the TC forum may offer insight as to their opinions on what that attention seems to bring. Screaming, gnashing of teeth, weeping, and all sorts of wonderous stuff are bound to ensue.
     
  10. Garm The Green

    Garm The Green Lore Master
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    Agreed. A load of panic over not very much.

    You're already masters, and these are quests for you :eek:)

    Sounds good to me.
    I don't think there is any evil intent here, bards aren't doing any harm - but they're just not very interesting! I'm sure the devs just want to raise their profile...

    Peace x
     
  11. Tay M'real

    Tay M'real Guest

    I was thinking they may get something more - more use out of their skills or possibly some changes that would benefit the player....
     
  12. Hildebrand

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    Any SA beta testers out there that can give some insight to the bard changes coming?
     
  13. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
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    beta testers?

    arnt all these internal test then just straight released to test then origin then production?

    its not like an expansion as far as i know.
     
  14. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I remember there being some discussion but at this point don't remember exactly what was discussed. I'm sure Lord GOD remembers, though, so hopefully he'll pop in and post something.
     
  15. The devs did not post anything about bards during beta.
     
  16. Hildebrand

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    From this, I thought that some ideas were hashed around during beta. Guess not?
     
  17. If the devs were discussing anything related to bards during SA beta it wasn't on the boards we could read.

    There were posts by players asking why we'd been forgotten again, to no dev reply. There were posts by players suggesting the same ideas that have been posted here for 8 years, to no dev reply, and there were posts requesting changes, also to no dev reply.

    Due to deadlines beta was very much a case of 'if it isn't already on the schedule don't expect it to happen'. Which would have been a fairly easy pill to swallow for bards, given past history, had they not then decided to publicaly poll pet dyes.
     
  18. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Upon rereading Logrus' and Lord GOD's comments about the one-sidedness of the beta "discussions" on barding, I'm forced to conclude Logrus is talking about what happened when the devs messed with throwing. That's all I can come up with.

    Friday's just around the corner, so maybe we'll hear something more in a day or two.
     
  19. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    Well my quests are done and going through testing.

    Yes there are goats involved.

    I'm hoping players don't find a way to complete my quests in 30 seconds.
    That would be quite frustrating.

    Of course the powers that be wont let me put a bomb trigger in that causes people who complete the quest in too short a time to explode.

    Hehehehe.


    Ooh speaking of explosions. Explosions will be involved in some way.
    Maybe.
     
  20. Exploding goats?
     
  21. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
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    :)

    goat grenades
     
  22. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    I was discussing exploding goats with Phoenix yesterday.

    The goats dont explode. -yet-

    Bards:
    I know the UO community has an aversion to change but dont despair, i'm hoping the slight adjustments will invigorate the bard playstyle without giving them too much tribulation. I think what I like most about UO players is their resilience in the face of changes, and hope to inspire new ideas that aid the preservance of the UO bard without forcing players into having to re-learn how to play their characters. (Peacing Poisoning fencing ninja mystic bard 4tw!! with explosion pots too)

    One of the hardest thing to me about being a dev is having to wait to play the game. The second hardest is finding the time to play. I havent gotten any new artifacts because i just havent had the time to go get them on a production shard.

    I think I'm going to go work on making the goats explode.
     
  23. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
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    i guess that all depends on what it does to the skills themselves.

    does it change the way we use them.

    does it add on to what we allready have (like a silencer?)

    i think everyone is hoping that it adds on to what we allready have and not a total revamp of the entire skill groups.
     
  24. Garm The Green

    Garm The Green Lore Master
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    i was feeling really positive but now...I'm stumped!

    "Peacing Poisoning fencing ninja mystic bard 4tw!!"

    eh?

    What Poo said +1.
     
  25. Bards haven't had a goddamn thing in 8 years because YOU the devs overlook us EVERY expansion in favour of pets and now you're sitting here telling us WE don't like change?
     
  26. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    Well one could apply that to a variety of skills or classes.
    Players tend to be very vocal about change. Very few changes tend to get made to things that are working well. -(Notice I didn't say bards particularly)
    So bards may have not gotten any attention for a while, but they weren't exactly broken.
     
  27. Yeah? well lets. The only skills that have had as little as Bards (that being nothing) are skills that are entirely useless like Forensic Eval. Even Item ID and Arms Lore have had more updates than Bards since Enticement changed to Discord.

    Its not a case of being broken, its a case of being ignored and overlooked, Tamers weren't broken you still gave them 2-4 pets every expansion. So don't give us that cop out bs answer, YOU the devs have been one sided in what you choose to update, and the fact you now try and pass the buck, or shrug it off as 'well they work as they are', doesn't exactly inspire confidence if you're the person thats going to be looking at them.
     
  28. Well, I'm excited to see what the quests will be, and I'm intrigued (if a little apprehensive) at what the changes to the skill will be.

    My first concern is that I hope they don't try to force bards into a certain template (i.e. must have music/peace/discord/provoke) in order to get max effectiveness. They tried to do that when they introduced mysticism (mystic/eval/imbuing + garg to max the skill) and people rejected the skill and they had to revamp right away. There are a lot of templates that incorporate bard skills (my main is a 6x provoke/discord bard/mage, and I also have a discord tamer and provoke archer), and requiring 4x 120 skills will kill any minute interest people have in becoming bards.

    I'm terrified that there will be a change into how bard skills must be used in the game. I don't want to log on one day to find that I can no longer do any of the things I can currently do - like what happened when skill-based bard skills were introduced.

    Among the things I would most like to see are:

    1. Some new equipment that bards will enjoy having. I don't mean we gotta get over-powered gear or anything like that; just something that might be a little challenging to get and that bards can carry or wear with pride. I'm still playing a lute identical to the one I played 10 years ago while other classes have gotten +skill & stat spellbooks, damage increase, swing speed increased weapons, greater dragons & dread warhorses, etc. We've gotten the Tokuno flutes, which were kind of nice but c'mon, instruments couldn't be repaired (or crafted magically or imbued) like weapons & armor; and we've gotten dread flutes - which are totally useless because they aren't exceptional and shows a total lack of understanding about the skill on the part of the Developers.

    2. That bards get properly credited for damage they do & influence. I'm talking primarily about provoke damage. I've talked about this before, but if you provoke 30 top end creatures on a champ and do 50%+ of the damage in your party, you'll end up with zero scrolls & no looting rights. They've known about this for a really long time. If you don't have magery, or archery or something else to do damage, you'll get NOTHING. Please fix this - for the love of god (it does seem to work properly at the abyss spawns, but the old champs are still messed up). Discord is another matter, not sure how that should be credited but bards should get something.

    3. Bards and PvP. HELLOOOO!! How come bard skills are the only ones (that I can think of ) that have no effect on PvP at all? Archers, spellcasters, swordsman, obviously their skills work in PvP as well as PvM. Tamer can sic their pets on monsters as well as other players. Support skills like bushido, chivalry, healing, etc. are useful in both situations. Thieves can steal from monsters & players. Hiders & stealthers can avoid monsters & players. Sure some skills are better for PvP while others have been balanced a little (no enemy of one in pvp, damage cap, etc.) but why do bards have to be totally excluded?!? Can't discord other players, can't peace other players, can't provoke other players, can't even provoke pets. Every skill & class is not optimized for pvp, but do we have to be totally helpless? Do we have to have 360-480 points that are totally non-functional? Taking a bard to a champ spawn is a totally act of faith in blind luck; if you get raided you're dead meat (while say an ABC archer or necro mage can move between pvm and pvp with little to no change). Please make it so, when someone raids a spawn, they don't see a bard and immediately think "sitting duck".

    4. Some new skills or new ways to use our skills. I'm intrigued by the "mastery" quests that have been suggested. If these result in some new way to use our skills, like maybe a positive HP regen or swing speed increase buff party members, that would be nice. Some way for bards to get an increase in rate of playing & recovery would be most welcome. Seriously, archers & dexxers can now take dexterity to 180+ without much trouble, and get 20+ SSI in their armor and 30-40 SSI on their weapons. Mages & spell-casting warriors can not only get Mana to 180+, but also get 15+ mana regen out of their equipment AND leech mana, not to mention 2/6 or 4/6 casting. Bards have gotten...nothing of course. I remember years ago when mana was always a problem on my mage; never even think about it any more. On my bards...same delay as always. Every other class has gotten new skills & bonuses. It's time for bards to get some as well.

    But all-in-all, I'm excited that there will be something new for bards. I've mentioned before while complaining that I don't think bards need to be made any more powerful than they are, generally speaking, but some changes to liven up the profession will be most welcome. Do something to get us excited!