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Unattended Scripters

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Theo_GL, Apr 19, 2012.

  1. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    Well, after all the noise EA/UO Devs made about 'tracking scripters via spreadsheet' blah blah It seems the problem is once again overlooked.

    I play an overseas low pop shard and most of it is people scripting. Community collections non-stop, heartwood quests, resource gathering etc.

    Maybe we should just all join them since it seems nothing is being done. Its not hard to find them. I can go to the library or to heartwood and see them all hours of the day. If you hand them some boards, they freeze until you cancel the trade. Obvious scripting b/c the scripts cannot handle a trade window in the middle of what they are doing.

    How annoying, especially when you are working through these grinds manually.

    EDIT: 1:40pm CST and same 'person' is running same script - 6 hours later.

    EDIT: 4:00pm CST and same 'person' still at it. Solid 8 hour workday of getting runic saws.
     
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  2. Don't Tread on Me

    Don't Tread on Me Lore Keeper
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    scripters and cheaters and the like make the game worse for the rest of us because 1) they flood the market with items etc that they recieve without any effort and 2) they take the devs time away from making a better UO experience (like fixing what happend to factions last month) to tracking down scripters and figuring out how to stop them. I wish people would just play the game like it was intended. That would make everything a lot better.
     
  3. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    Join them if you need the loot.
     
  4. lankdogg03

    lankdogg03 Journeyman
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    I don't mean to sound negative but at this point I don't think anything will be done to stop them. I mean yes occasionally they may ban some. Let's be honest though without all the scripter accounts UO may not be able to stay open. I have reported them before myself, but really it doesn't do any good and we just have to either accept that the scripters are here for the long haul or quit playing ourselves.
     
  5. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Have you ever considered that scripting/exploiting keeps people away or doesn't help with keeping people around?

    Like Don't Tread on Me said, they screw up the market for legitimate players, so the idea that they are helping to keep UO open is more than offset by how many players they drive away.

    Tolerating them sends a very negative message about UO.
     
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  6. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    I have a freind who was talking about rap music in gen chat last tuesday who mistakenly added a E to the end of rap and is now taking a nice three day break even though it was a clear mistype. This is where your dollars are being spent.
     
  7. SlobberKnocker

    SlobberKnocker Slightly Crazed

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    i am hopeful there will be a day of reckoning but im not holding my breath. i just dont think uo has the man power to stay on top of this 24/7.

    with people looking to make -15 mw bokutos im sure the scripting is being ramped up again down in heartwood. i did over 100 foot stool quests and turned in like 50 coil fangs legitamately in the hopes of getting an ash saw and got bupkus. meanwhile theres guys selling the weapons for 25-50 mln bold depending upon the shard.
     
  8. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    The people who are driven away because of scripting, is because they see other people (bots) doing it and know it's illegal and they don't want to risk their own account(s), "If I do it, I'll get banned!".

    Personally I would prefer for it to be made Legal with unattended macroing remaining as is.

    Fix it, or make it Legal.
     
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  9. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    Thats my point - either enforce it or come out and say its legal and then I can have my computer acquiring runics all day long while I work too.

    I guess the moral of the story is get a free account with a good script and join them.
     
  10. Thunderz

    Thunderz Certifiable
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    If you cant beat them join them, as i think the saying goes. Best way to screw them over is... download the illegal program and there script, learn how it works and write your own that will stop theres working. I know its illegal to use it but some time the people have to take the law into there own hands to get justice done [Just like with linching back in the old west [law is in the hands of the people]

    Thunderz
     
  11. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Have any of you really looked at the real root of the scripting??
    hmm?
    Well congratulations to those who have cause your in a very small minority. For the rest of you who are clueless here is a hint..... Gold that converts to $.
    Every scripter is earning gold or $. oh it might not be every scripter who is earning $ for profet but for mass majority of them it's alot of $. Let's be real and see it equates to a tidy sum when your computer is idle. Those saws and kits and resources sell big time when most of you wont even get off your tails and go get it yourself.
    Take for example the Valorite ore/ingots rush for the hammers.
    You cant find a deed with any on a vendor under max price if it lasts that long on the market. Why? Well............. lets see a val hammer is 7 to 10 mil ea. With the bods more available and though it is a good gold sink, it still is a small drop in the big pond of gold floating out in uo. Players with more gold then time dont care and buy the scripted goods.
    Perhaps this is something the dev can understand, If the resources were back to the old ways. Say set spots for ore and wood and (oh I know this sounds crazy but also up the amount given per location) players will push out the scripters. As Picus pointied out you can mess them up! Alot on the market makes it worth less and there are alot less scripters in game then the past.
    Or if the Dev were smart make a npc that sells the ingots, wood etc for a standard rate as regs..... If your willing to stand there and milk the npc's you can blow a scripter off the map. Also they cant buy from all the npc's of the game considering every place now in the game to go to...

    Prices on many items the Dev have made easer to get have slowed or stopped the scripters in their tracks.... Perhaps its time to think with your heads guys. Cut the snakes head off and stop the problem. :scholar:
     
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  12. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    I prefer unattended scripters to people who farm champs in the middle of the night.
     
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  13. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Thing about scripting bots is if they ban them they only go right out buy a new account script up the skills go right back out doing the same thing... Until they learn to REALLY ban someone or at least make it WAY more difficult for them to return to the game... its never going to end... also so long as there are dollars in it... it will be highly attractive. And that's the truth of it.
     
  14. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Mervyn, you assume that everybody on your shard works a 9-5 job and lives in the same time zone that you do.
     
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  15. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Some of the biggest scripters have been reported by name, right here on Stratics, complete with screenshots. The search engine bots that openly disregard the TOS. Those are incredibly easy to spot and ban, and the UO team already knows about them - many of us have reported them, and a friend was directly told by Cal that they were monitoring them. This was over a year ago.

    For UO's 15th Birthday, how about banning just 20 of the scripters? 1-2 a week between now and September?

    I would like to thank the Stratics staff, normally they do not allow us to question why the dev team allows the scripting to go on. They probably aren't happy about the scripters either.
     
  16. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    It appears that the GM's are no longer banning cheaters that are paged on... | Stratics Forums

    March 2011

    Llewen had a very profound point, although I think that the search engine scripters know that they are cheating and profiting from breaking the TOS. They aren't scripting the databases for their websites and they aren't scripting all of that gold and resources out of the kindness of their heart.
     
  17. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    And let it be known that I occasionally agree with popps, even if the post below is over a year old:

    I would like Jeff to explain what he meant by giving the scripters/cheaters a place to play in his video interview. If they can find the time to dream up something to confine them to their own area, they can dream up something to ban them.

    Besides, like Petra Fyde said, the cheaters/scripters aren't going to want to play with their own kind, they cheat/script because it gives them an advantage or they make money, and they can't do either of those on a shard where everybody is openly doing it.
     
  18. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Just so everybody remembers the Stratics interview:


    UO Stratics *New* | Transcript of Sosaria Reels interview with Jeff Skalski


    popps, there is the answer to your question, Jeff Skalski feels they devalue the game.
     
  19. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    Scripters are simple to find. Just track the number of heartwood quests a character completes in a day. Anyone over 2,000 is a scripter pretty much. Anyone turning in over 500k of community collection points as well. I mean, if they were really serious - they would do something about it. As it is, you and I and everyone else not scripting are at a disadvantage if we don't run scripts. How can I craft competitive armor/weapons when others are getting runics essentially free vs my personal time/effort?
     
  20. The_Dude_

    The_Dude_ Journeyman
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    The devs do not care one bit about cheating. Last year I closed my 4 accounts. In my last month for 30 days I had one account mining 23 hours a day and another account chopping wood 23 hours a day. Then with another account I paged on both of my other accounts to see if anything would happen. Well what happened was in 30 days I turned it all into million dollar checks put them in my bank and logged out.
     
  21. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    I love that! BUSTED!

    a couple things:
    I couldn't recently name a rune Compassion Shrine, triggering a 'you can't do that', but I can say R* or N* with no problems? How's that Not Broken?
    IRL, can't stop murder, make it legal? No, that only leaves enforcing the ones they put in place. I'm thinking I heard LOTRO had a Zero Tolerance towards certain things, maybe UO needs some of that, applied correctly.
     
  22. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
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    This is very sad to hear, especially after spending last three weeks fishing/lobster fishing up to 5 hours a day. I now know scripters not only achieve more than I can ever imagine, but they also get away with it.

    Anybody knows a player banned for scripting? If not, I guess all that is done so far is to forbid even mentioning those sites and pretend they don't exist.

    Did you know that 55% of the visits to the most popular of those scripting sites are from China? (check alexa.com) I guess this is a well established business now, gathering the virtual property using scripts and selling them using 3rd party websites.

    Have the devs taken a single action to prevent scripting? I'd love to know.
     
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  23. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    I don't think he does. Mervyn, just wants everyone to play the game the way he wants them to play. Mervyn doesn't like people being able to play the way they want to, because that is not fun for him.

    I think a couple of bans can go a long way, especially if the devs keep it up.
     
  24. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    It all boils down to money.
    If the Dev and GM's ban every scripter, the game will loose vital $$ in support for the game. Let's face it they have alot of money to spend in uo and on uo to make a killing in china for our dollar. (I am not defending them but explaining how they have us by the short fur)
    There are some of our players who cant invest the work in the game to collect regs,resources,and equipment the game requires to get somewhere. Many do not have 24/7 to play like some of us. The few hours that they got free a week is spent in hard earned work. They buy the items the scripters sell, some in game some out. But it all Boils down to the same thing................... $$$ money, moula, peso's, denaro, etc.
    I remember a guy who went from shard to shard recruiting players to work for him in leu of pay for collecting things he would then sell to players. I remember him well as I saw him on each of the shards I play, hunting down players willing to work for him. Yes this was years ago but the person I refer to I turned in to the Dev and GM's ... was anything done? no
    I was thanked for my concern and patted on the head and sent my merry way....(you get my drift)
    I can only say that the legal department has something to say about the handling of these people, 1 mis step could do us more harm then good.

    This is why I suguested they (DEV) make all resources easy to get, you cut off the $$ supply the whole plant dies (metaphore) You make gold scarce and resources nearly worthless the market for the scripters will dwindle to squat. It's gunna sound strange but that start up set they give you when you go to test center might give them a clue. Look at the ground next time you go there..... lumber, leather, ore, etc all over the ground ( kinda reminds me of 97 start up hehe) You give new players a box perhaps 1/2 as much and you watch the prices fall, add in npc's that sell the different items........ scripters will be pissed cause they will not sell a drop of their inventory! I am not saying make the items cheap in gold cost mind you but fair. They cant compete with a npc spawning 999 of frostwood or 999 val ore/ingots . Will it hurt players who are ligit? no They still can go out and turn it into a good deal mroe with other skills they have with the proper item now available, it also makes a substantial gold sink for the game as well.
     
  25. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    They should just do what they did to the dupers some time ago, ban some number of them as an exmaple, turn their house into rubble leaving only an effigy. Of course they should make sure to hit the high-profile scripters.
     
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  26. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Do you really believe that the executives who could shut UO down have put out a directive telling the UO team not to ban the scripters because UO will lose money? Trust me on this, the people who have the power to shut down UO do not care about scripters and probably have never logged into UO.

    Ask yourself this: How much money has been lost from players who get tired of the scripting? People who get upset seeing hard work go down the drain as the scripters, with very little effort, screw legitimate players over? Players who will never give UO a chance, or vets who will never come back because of the scripting/cheating?

    When other sites post UO stories, inevitably scripting/cheating comes up in the comments. That doesn't help with attracting new players or bringing back vets, and that makes all of us look bad.

    Jeff Skalski said that the UO team feels that scripters devalue the game. He's probably seen the comments posted elsewhere about UO and the scripting/cheating that is associated with it. He's probably read the exit surveys you get when you close a UO account.
    I get what you're going for, but you'll end up screwing over legitimate players anyways. You say make resources easy to get. The scripters will then shift their efforts to something else in the game to make money. You have to remember that it requires very little effort on the part of the scripters to do what they do.

    At first you say they can't get rid of the scripters because UO will lose money, then you talk about undermining the scripters and making their efforts worthless.

    How about just banning them? Ban the accounts who keep the search sites supplied with data, and in the process, knock out any and all associated accounts, since those same search sites are selling a lot of gold and resources. Nobody seriously believes that they are legitimately earning those resources.
     
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  27. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Threads like this are not easy.

    Mods, Admins, Reporters, Content folk and M.E.s are all volunteers. We are also pretty damned passionate about the games we have devoted years and more money than many of us care to admit.

    We are the raving fans so to speak. The 'pom pom waving cheerleaders'... we are called worse. just saying.

    We the Staff of Stratics have many and various opinions on many subjects. We also represent many different play styles, games , and experiences. It is difficult sometimes to have and express an opinion here on Stratics as a Staff member. Many of us really have to watch their step when replying with opinions.

    We do have opinions and not many would want to hear my thoughts on this one... But my ideas and thoughts are reflected by some few posts in this thread. If you ever get a like from me... It means I like the way you think on this given topic. I do not like you personally... do not get creepy on me.

    Locking a thread is easy. Some threads just need it. Some threads need discussing. Some threads get intentionally blown up by haters or folks trying to smoke and mirror a thread to death.

    I dunno... This is a difficult topic. I see folks encouraging others to cheat in this thread. They will tell you there are no consequences... I dunno. I could never cheat. Yet there seem to be a few schools of thought on this.

    Cheaters never win.
    If you are not cheating, you are not trying.
    Who cares?

    I dunno. Done rambling. Just know threads like this are not easy.
     
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  28. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    edit: thank you kelmo, and the comments below are not directed at you.

    Anything that hurts UO's reputation, hurts UO's longevity.

    It doesn't matter how much money the scripters bring in for EA, they are helping kill off UO over the long term.
     
  29. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Scary that I agree with Kelmo on something.... but I do like what you are saying and I do agree... however I've seen things done by EA that aren't exactly what you think they are. If only some knew the truth of the matters... but that remains secret.

    But I agree it's UO's reputation that hurts it. Of course EA doesn't help matters any. I can say this... with the current team I see hope. I see them attempting to right many wrongs... as for the scripting I stand by what I said in my post previously... until they find a way to truly ban them I see little point in them doing much of anything at all...
     
  30. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    Kelmo - The problem I have is that there are empty threats to deal with cheaters and nothing is being done whatsoever. If they really need the subs - the fine - leave the cheaters in but then tell us 'its ok' so we can script too and be on a level playing field with the cheaters. I really dont' care one way or the other anymore.

    I'm asking for either:
    1 - Unattended Scripting is Illegal and EA will enforce this with penalties.
    2 - Unattended Scripting is OK and everyone can do it

    I wish EA/UO would take a stance and live up to it. As it is they are sitting at 1.5. It is illegal, but we won't do anything about it because we need clean and dirty money.

    So those of us trying to play the game legitimately are being taken advantage of by the people running scripts. If you aren't going to punish them, then let me do it too.
     
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  31. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Kelmo you know the score.

    Woodman I am trying to figure out a way the Dev could stop them without doing much harm as possible.
    Make it easer to find and get the wood would stop the buying of it from the scripters- they would be sitting on dead supplies.
    The ore or ingots would be the same, I do however see your point and understand your fustration.
    Most players didnt leave uo because the scripting.... nore will they return when they are basicly gone. Ban them and we might loose enough subscriptions that the doors close. I know many dont want ot think of our numbers being that low, I for one hate the idea we in all of our history have never even gotten close to 10% of the population wow has right this minute. They have lost over 3 million players and yet we exsist on the handfull we have. I dont want to make a fuss but has it even ever crossed your mind that the reason is they out number the legit players 2 /1? Its possible the dev took stock in the # of them and calculated the loss in $.
    EA/Mythic/Bio needs to take a page out of Wow's book though. They cater to the players needs and dogo out of their way to replace whats taken or lost. UO needs this amount of care and treatment for its players.
    Your right the Exes dont care to know or play uo or anyother of their products. They are the $ men /women of EA. We dont even come up in convo in the office memo's.

    Scripting is not the odd player running uol**p with his uoassist chopping a few trees for an hour or two.... Scripting is the bot that recalls in digs for 3 or 4 scoops or chops and recalls to a area near their house drops off all under a macro script with no one behind the keyboard for 22 hours a day yet the poor person who uses the l**p and digs or chopps that small time has a 99% chance of getting banned then the bot. Even if the person is there sitting in front of the screen watching the character do its work. That single non scripter player will get the brunt of the anger implyed by the deed. Years ago uol**p was a good program uo was ok with till some brainie idiots used it to dupe...

    Nether duping nor scripting has gone away. Yet we all pay for it.
    EA made bad choices and worse replacements for things we had in the past.
    Not one thing is the real reason players leave... its just part of the whole.
    Many returning vets have told me their reasons to return to uo...
    Its the freedom UO offers, it beats hands down the others
    Friends and companions come and go but freedom is never lost.
    Been there done that... in a great deal of games that have come and gone... going on 15 years in UO and still love the game.
    I might not play long each day, RL comes first but I do log in.
     
  32. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    From what I've seen, threads were usually left to run their course, regardless of whether they need discussing, regardless of the heat they put off, UNTIL they denigrate to something all together different; name calling, personal attacks and disrespect being the most common. Often, things are taken out of context or to mean other than what was intended by the OP.

    For making items easier to get, my feelings... Easier means Cheaper - Same thing Jeff stated, "they devalue the game experience". Not just items, but actual experiences. I used to like mining, currently devalued almost to the point of extinction.
     
  33. wanderer1origin

    wanderer1origin Lore Master
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    uo needs a game changing idea in the next month !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    uo cant compete against diablo but can keep interest, we need a challenge and a reason, please ban a few hundred max cheaters all it would take and pick ones that post stratics to make it count you know they do and we know they do !!!!!!!!!

    then give us a redefined tokono type event LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    diablo 3 i will try if is anything like original, my accounts :) near the 15th of month shut off will probably take a 2 - 3 month break, so many us played d when uo and diablo were young i worry about this game !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  34. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    At this point I would like to go back to the old system of fixed deposits, you'll get no argument out of me there, because while the changes were well-intentioned, ultimately the people who run the scripts benefit from the current system, since many players do not have the time needed to accumulate a lot of resources.
    If the subscription numbers are so low that banning scripters will make UO unprofitable, then UO is probably not too far off from being closed as it stands.
    They could detect how many people are engaging in such behavior from the server side, just by looking at certain types of activity, but if they made that decision to allow scripting and word got out, it would cause problems that went well above Jeff Skalski's head.

    BioWare is not in the best of positions - they are catching hell over Mass Effect 3, and Star Wars: The Old Republic is supposedly down half a million subscribers from its peak, to like 1.2 million.

    If word leaked out that cheating/scripting was being tolerated in UO by the dev team/BioWare/EA, the articles would not read "cheating tolerated in UO because EA wants the money", they would read "EA and BioWare condoning cheating in their MMORPGs" and people would jump to the conclusion that it was being tolerated in all of the BioWare MMORPGs, because that's what the media likes to do. There would be all kinds of EA executives screaming at BioWare executives over it.

    I do think the scripting harms UO's reputation, which does harm UO's longevity, but I also know the scripters don't care, and it's hard to say which is worse in my view. For the big scripters, UO is just a paycheck. If it closed, they would shed no tears. They would get a little pissy for an hour or two until they started setting up for another MMORPG (and most are probably not just running UO right now anyways).
     
  35. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    UO can survive a little longer, but Diablo, Guild Wars 2, Titan, Elder Scrolls Online, Amalur Online, etc. will eventually chip away enough that UO will be in trouble. The sky is not falling just yet, but a lot of huge games are coming out this year and next year.
    While I would like this kind of closure as well, if it was announced the gaming media would be all over BioWare over this.

    BioWare has just taken a one-two punch over Mass Effect 3 and Star Wars shedding subs. Getting raked over by the gaming media over allowing cheating just to keep money flowing would cause all kinds of hell within BioWare.

    Jeff did say they devalue the game so that sounds like he is not a fan of it.

    It's the bit about finding a place for the cheaters to play that bugs me.
     
  36. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Gods how I miss being able to go get exactly what I needed when I needed it. I can't tell you how many times now I cringe thinking about doing any deco with stone. Especially any of the harder to find deposits ... Like gods forbid Verite.... Valorite...

    I just want to cry if it's anything more than shadow. Its sad when you think about it. Heck I can mine saltpeter better than I can get Verite or Valorite stone.

    I think randomizing the ores and trees only killed the average player never hurt the scripters at all.
     
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  37. Coldren

    Coldren Sage
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    My idea? Let them script. All day long. Uninhibited.

    How is this a solution? That's the fun part. We @*^# with them...

    Once identified, beyond a reasonable doubt, the fun begins. Steps need to be taken to ensure that if a false positive is verified, everything that follows can be undone with a restore, of course... But if not...

    A) The account turns into a Trial account for a week, with all the limitations thereof. House starts the decay clock. Unable to lock down or access items, containers, or vendors in their house.

    B) Once spotted, verified, by a GM, A goes into effect, and everything gained since you last logged in goes poof.. Sorry, GM's can't help you with missing items, after all. (Turn poor support into an advantage!) So the longer they were on, the more they lose. If the sum of what they had is greater than the sum of what's in their bank box.. Woops. Must have been hacked. What are they going to do? Call support and say I lost my scripted gains?

    C) Next time they log in, they get disconnected every hour. This goes on for about 2 weeks. Then it's 100% random. It's like Oceiana 24-7... But you know.. Intentionally. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

    So go ahead and script your little heart out. Waste your electricity. Keep giving EA your money and support the game. Enjoy the rage/quit on the forums with a generously sized bowl of popcorn. Good times will be had by all.

    But in the end, they simply won't have anything to show for it, EA keeps the money, the economy is saved, we get some free entertainment, and UO gets a reputation for having the best solution conceivable to combat scripters.

    I think this is better than Draconi's burning houses myself....
     
  38. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    2 problems Coldren
    there's no restore, ask rubble holders in New Mag
    there's no GM's that act on scripters, ask Anyone

    I wasn't very active on the boards years ago, mostly just lurking. Who remembers how the discussions went back then that got us random resources we have today?
    Thought there were discussions, and not just a 'surprise'? just askin...
     
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  39. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    It's only cheating if it's not allowed. Make ATTENDED scripting legal and it magically no longer falls under the stigma of cheating.
     
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  40. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    Oh, but the they didn't randomize the resources to combat scripting. Just ask the devs. They'll tell you so. LOL!
     
  41. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    I wish I had the guts to script.
    I don't even script making potions. People are usually shocked by that for some reason.
    I've never scripted a skill. I have made really really long UO Assist macros though lol
    Keep in mind if you're talking about scripting, those search sites that everyone uses uses a script to gather all that information you use. I guess that kind of scripting is ok with everyone though.
     
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  42. Coldren

    Coldren Sage
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    This is of course reliant upon the Devs willingness or capability of dealing with them.

    You can make a restore. It'd be a targeted, manually initiated thing for a single account. No, you can't restore whole shards or track items that may have been possibly held by many many others easily. But one account? This should be a "relatively" simple task.

    As for GM's, well.. That's a personnel problem. Maybe when SWOTOR crashes, they'll free up some support. Or give some of those 1000 people they plan on laying off a new job.
     
  43. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I don't do it either - and I won't go near those sites. What I need I either look for in vendors or ask for in general chat. I'm not a 'must have it now' type, so if I have to ask several times at different times of day it's no big deal. I will not support cheaters - on the other hand I don't go hunting for them either. If I happen to come across one I'll report it and then go on with my day.


    It is very, very wrong to encourage people to script, will those doing it in this thread please stop?

    Scripters DO get removed, sadly it would take a whole team working 24/7 to keep up with the folk doing it to get them all removed. But I'm sure everyone knows that Murphy's law dictates that the one who's caught and removed is the one doing it for the very first time because someone told him he'd never be caught. Don't tempt Murphy.
     
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  44. popps

    popps Always Present
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    What is inexplicable to me, is how year after year the status quo regarding scripting and cheating remains the same.

    I mean, cheating in the game, to my understanding, is not allowed by the TOS. Yet, it is not that difficult or unusual to see players either scripting or using hacks in PvP, we recently have heard rumors of even yet another dupe......

    What I am trying to say, since it is now way too many years that not much changes in Ultima Online as in regards to cheating in this game, if it is so difficult to take care of cheating once and for all, regardless whether the reasons might be technical or any other possible difficulty, why then the TOS is not changed and cheating in UO made possible for all players ?

    I mean, the problem with cheating is that it puts players on an uneven ground. Those cheating and those not. Having players playing on an uneven ground I think it as not good for the game.

    So, I would imagine, that either cheating was to be fought as a priority and get rid of it or, should this not be possible, whatever the reasons, then the TOS be changed and all players allowed to cheat in UO.

    Either one (I would prefer the game to be rid of cheating....), but certainly NOT the current status quo as it has been for many years now, where cheating is not allowed by the TOS but then it is not that hard to find players either scripting or hacking (for example in PvP for speed etc.) which gets players to play on an uneven ground.

    So, please, either get rid of cheating in Ultima Online (which I'd certainly prefer) or at the very least change the TOS and make cheating in UO allowed for all players without worries.

    That's at least as I see it.
     
  45. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Hmmm... I would imagine that Luna scripters would be the easiest to be stopped in that case but then, how come I have a feeling to keep seeing them ?
     
  46. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    You REALLY think that scripting would make the difference to the game?
    Actually 90% of the game activities can be done automatically, what's the difference between using a script or just doing it by manually click while watching TV?

    The game is sinking due to all this grinding activities that can be done just by scripting unless you are a masochist... Until 90% of the game can be played brainless, well I'm sorry to say that everyone who use scripts have all rights to do that...

    In the other hand I have to say that scripting and speedhacking on pvp is cheat while scripting for resources is the only way if you don't want to die of boring.

    The only way to stop that is refreshing the game by adding something like hireable mining/lumberjacking npcs for example that does the work for you. About heartwood quests they just have to change it, those quests are not fun at all...
    There are a lots of things that must be changed before starts to add new things, the very sould of the game must be redesigned to save it...
     
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  47. MissEcho

    MissEcho Slightly Crazed
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    What gets me is this 'unattended' rubbish. Way back when, it didn't matter whether you were attended or NOT if you were using an illegal user script. As far as I know this has never changed. If you are using a script that interacts/interferes with the UO game data, and does things that either the CC, CC + UOA or the EC cannot do inside the macro system it is illegal.

    So to the miner in Cove on Atlantic who runs the illegal script that hops from spot to spot, and recalls to bank/home to drop off and rinse/repeat for HOURS on end. Where the timing on all the recalls are to the second when they are repeated, and where the person doesn't 'stop' and move a few tiles when he lands on the tile next to you (which you have just mined) but tries to mine on the top of you, guess what, I don't care if you are attended or NOT. You are cheating. You can usually tell a cheating miner as they never have a beetle or a fire beetle either. No one who mines manually would dig 4-5 times and manually recall home to unload and ditto ditto ditto, that would be moronic.

    There is no legal macro that I know of that allows you to recall to a location, dig dig dig, recall out, unload, recall back, dig dig dig, recall out, unload, recall next location, dig dig dig, etc etc, which will run in perfect timing for hour after hour. And it is NOT done manually as there is no 'legal' macro that I am aware of that will allow you remove stuff from your pack and place it by opening your bank or by placing in a container at your house.

    If there is please advise exactly how you set it up as I want some of that.

    My point tho is just because you MAY be attended, it doesn't mean that these scripts are legal. If that is not the case, then please advise, as I don't mind sitting and watching my screen while my character trains/scripts up skills, crafts potion kegs, takes reagents and turns em into potions automatically, recalls in and out of the library donating stuff etc etc etc.
     
  48. MissEcho

    MissEcho Slightly Crazed
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    So if you are a pvp'er, these scripts are bad for your game and shouldn't be allowed because in your opinion they are cheating

    but

    if you are a person who enjoys crafting and the gathering trades like mining and lumberjacking in your opinion it is OK for the scripters to put you out of business and devalue all the enjoyment you may get out of supplying those on the shard with said resources as part of the overall UO economic community and make a little money.

    Can't agree with that. I actually enjoy mining and lumber jacking and actually DON'T find it boring. Sometimes it is actually theraputic and just a nice way to pass the time (done in moderation). Scripters kill any chance I have of ever making any profit for time vs effort doing this now, and so I only mine for my own use. I can't compete with the scripter selling gems by the 100 lot.
     
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  49. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    Mining or lumberjacking for few hours produces a little amount of resources that is not even 1/10 of the whole demand. Also the people who rellay enjoy this kind of activities are very few, so without scripters there will be a huge less crafting activities around...
     
  50. Doubleplay

    Doubleplay Lore Keeper
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    Pardon me if I don't comprehend the situation correctly, but it seems to me a partial cure would be to limit the training ability on free accounts. If free accounts were limited to, say, 70 skill in any specialty, then at least the free accounts would not be contributing to the scripting problem.
     
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