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NEWS [UO.Com] Publish 82 Updates

Discussion in 'UHall' started by UO News, Jul 1, 2013.

  1. UO News

    UO News RSS Feed
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    Patch Notes
    2013 Jul 01 19:59 GMT
    We are putting out a publish to fix a few bugs that have been called to our attention. These changes will be seen after your next maintenance cycle,
    • Corrected an issue which prevented the imbuing of the Gargish Amulet and the stone Gargish Amulet.
    • Corrected an issue which broke auto-defending attackers once a player had multiple aggressors and had healed themselves.
    • Corrected an issue with north facing Compassion Virtue tile.

    Looting rights distribution update

    Healing now only applies aggression towards a healed targets aggressors, if the healed target is not a pet, the healed target is not the healer, and the healed target has attacked the aggressor.
    Example 1: Warrior A is fighting Mob B. Healer C heals Warrior A and now has aggressed Mob B.
    Example 2: Tamer A’s pet is fighting Mob B. Healer C heals Tamer A’s pet and does not aggress Mob B.

    Continue reading...
     
  2. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    Glad something's been done, but it's been a really long, trying and very hot day and I can't for the life of me work out what exactly that explanation means :(

    I think it's says that in the case of a tamer healing their own pet, they no longer attract aggro? I'm sort of losing it at 'now only applies aggression towards a healed targets aggressors', the healed target's aggressors are surely the monsters, so how does aggro get applied TOWARDS them?
     
    #2 Aurelius, Jul 1, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2013
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  3. yars

    yars Lore Keeper
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    wtf? can we get this in english? not engrish?
    the way i read it is, the tamer still gets aggro,but if someone else heals their pet its not aggro towards the healer.
    and in the first example,if you heal someone fighting a monster you get aggro. sooooo they didnt do anything? they just explained what they did to jack it all up the first time.
     
    #3 yars, Jul 1, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2013
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  4. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    it says, we broke the game more, now go test it see if its better now
     
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  5. cdavbar

    cdavbar Lore Master
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    Ill take a jab at it. You only aggro if you heal a main *person* attacking the mob. If you heal another healer or heal a pet you will not aggro. That is how I took it anyways.
     
  6. Prince Erik

    Prince Erik Journeyman
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    Or if you heal yourself they will not aggro (if you haven't actually attacked the monster that is).

    -P.E.
     
  7. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

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    What I don't understand is why this doesn't apply in PvP. If you are fighting one-on-one, no matter who started the fight, and someone else jumps into the fight, shouldn't that aggro the opposing party? Or does that somehow prevent blue PK'ing?
     
  8. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I think it is saying that if you heal another character's pet, whatever is targeting that pet won't become aggressive towards your character.

    However, since the notes don't say anything has changed with regard to healing your own pet, I believe that the Publish 82 change is still in effect that makes monsters that are attacking your pet go after the owner of the pet if the pet owner heals the pet. In other words, if you go hunting solo with your pets, absolutely nothing's changing from a week ago. All the other little buggy things we reported with flagging happening when there was no healing actually going on, the nerfing of peacemaking with this change, etc....who knows if anything has changed.

    I guess we'll have to wait and see how this all plays out. Just really don't even know what to think or say anymore. :(
     
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  9. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    And consider the source: these are the same folks who told us "persist indefinitely" when it should have been "end after a week."
     
  10. WootSauce

    WootSauce Lore Keeper
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    Guys, its not just Tamers and Healers that is the problem here...

    To quote Zeke from the other thread about targeting being broken for PVM:

    "Bleek, the issue isn't just with Auto Defend. I am in attack mode hitting Mob A, mobs B, C, D & E aggro me and I stop hitting Mob A. This is becoming very annoying as I have to keep hitting my attack macro and that doesn't always work. I'm not pleased that you and the Dev team implemented a change without testing it. The change was supposed to be about healing and aggro but it totally changed all aggro in the game and pushing it out so quickly to all shards was a huge mistake. You broke Tamers, Healers, solo melee and group fighting."

    I experienced this while playing this weekend while gathering some keys for Parox, and it's definitely jacked up. When in a group of mobs, I could not target one effectively at all, as I would lose focus on the creature being attacked any time ANY other creature aggro'd me. If these changes are intentional, please just say so, because it certainly appears to be completely broken from where I am sitting. I guess we will see how these changes play out.
     
    #10 WootSauce, Jul 1, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2013
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  11. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Though they could have worded it better, and/or given more common examples, I think what is being said is that you will only go aggro to the victim of your healing target if the target is a PLAYER.

    So tamers should be able to heal their own pets without becoming aggressor to the pets target.

    That's how I read it anyway.
     
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  12. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Maybe that is related to bullet 2. The breaking of auto defend. They did say they were aware of this issue, so I'm guessing that's the case.
     
  13. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    Looking forward to testing this! :D
     
  14. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I'm hoping that's what it means.... I'm sure I'll find out soon.
     
  15. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I get it. (I hope.)

    Bullet 2 of 3 relates to the PvM targeting issue we had noticed. They think that the target breaking actually was a product of the first time you healed yourself. (You attack a monster, other monsters flag on you, you heal in some way, the healing breaks you auto-fighting the creature you initially attacked.)

    Hopefully I'm right and hopefully they are right that it was healing that was the source of the issue. (We'll find out tomorrow morning I guess, but they really should respond in this thread to clarify.)

    And the non-bulleted points, the loot rights thing, appears to be related to a suggestion I made some days ago.

    When they changed looting rights, their intent appears to have been to reward healers and damage-takers as well as damage-doers. Problem was that this ended up favoring really high damage doers even more than before and favored tamers. Tamers had a high-ish damage weapon (the pet), had a tank (the pet), and had a thing to heal (the pet). So they in essence had all 3 sides of the equation. Even if damage the pet took did not count they still had 2 of the 3!

    So if I understand them right, healing an aggressor (such as, say, a pet that's been told "ALL KILL!!!"), only counts towards your loot rights if the healed aggressor is NOT a pet (thus ending the over-favoring of tamers), is NOT also the aggressor (thus ending the over-favoring of, say, Sampires who "heal" through leaching), and the healed target has attacked the aggressor.

    The latter I guess is aimed at people who get points by healing folks who are just standing there passively being damaged and not engaging in the fight? I guess that's possible but I haven't seen it.

    If I'm right then these changes should be quite positive.

    Now, team, please clarify!

    -Galen's player
     
    #15 GalenKnighthawke, Jul 1, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2013
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  16. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    To be honest though, if you are right about the healing looting rights effect, it will bork the ability for healers to get looting rights even more than they were pre-publish.

    For instance... typical EM event mob... all those tamers hit "all kill" while everyone else stands back and does range damage. Healers jump into action to help keep the pets alive... but alas, with these changes all of that healing doesn't count for looting rights. I will agree that there are some off events where people try to play the role of "tank" (I really don't see to many sampires at EM events), but far and away most of the event warriors are doing range damage and rely on GD to be the buffer.

    When you apply this to regular hunting, I am going to guess is the same deal. Group hunts usually involve a sampire as a tank who probably doesn't need the healing or a GD to tank... if you can heal the pet to count as looting rights, your healing options get pretty limited.
     
  17. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Healing the pets won't count for the healer but healing dexxers will. If you look at the warrior template you'll note the emergence of newer non-sampire dexers, or rather the return of older non-sampire dexers (about ****ing time). Sampires or similar templates will still have great results due to damage output.

    Also if you mean even more borked than pre-publish, do you mean before they got a shot at looting rights at all? If so that's plainly untrue. If you mean before this new fix publish takes effect, then I guess we'll see but honestly I don't see how it'll be worse. Were healers getting the drops before, from healing the pets? No, they weren't, tamers and throwers were.

    Now they can toss a heal on a player that's tanking and do damage on their own as well. Also there may well be an incentive to cross-heal between dexers.

    Granted, that is terrible for me as I'm terrible at cross-healing. But for others it's good.

    -Galen's player
     
  18. virtualhabitat

    virtualhabitat Lore Keeper
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    I think Kai Schober got his old job back
     
  19. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    Event drops and looting rights are very very different. I know lots of folks, myself included, who get looting rights just by pulling up all the pet bars and healing any who are taking damage.

    As for getting drops... You really think there are enough of those pure melee types at events that you are going to out class the thrower, archers, and tamers by healing them? Good luck with that.
     
  20. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    I read this and then had to go chasing after my eyes because I rolled them so hard they started rolling down the street. Why not just revert the system until you're sure you have something that is working as you intend it to? It's like putting that black tape over the end of your phone charger. You keep doing it even though it doesn't work. Just get rid of it.
     
  21. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I just did some hunting on Balhae and Europa in Destard, Shame, Tokuno and T2A because I figured both shards should have received the publish mentioned above. What I found was that my tamer was not being flagged at all for healing her pet either with bandages or with spells. Everything seemed to be back to the way it was before Publish 82, whether my pet was attacking just one monster at a time or had several monsters attacking it at the same time. I did not, however, spend any time analyzing the loot to see if there was anything better or worse about it and I was by myself, i.e., no one else was healing my pet.
     
    #21 Tina Small, Jul 2, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2013
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  22. Felonious Monk

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    Awesome. thx for testing and posting
     
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  23. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    So far, it seems to be just the Asian and European shards that have received this latest publish. It doesn't seem to have gone live yet on Oceania or the North American shards.
     
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  24. Kelly O'Brian

    Kelly O'Brian Journeyman
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    Dear Oracle,

    what does that mean:


    ?
     
    #24 Kelly O'Brian, Jul 2, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2013
  25. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I hope I'm understanding this right...

    If a warrior is surrounded by a group of spawn but he only attacked one creature in that group, then you heal him, only that creature he attacked will aggro on you. Your healing would count towards you gaining looting rights.

    If you heal a guy who has attacked all of that spawn then all of it will aggro on you. Your healing would count towards you gaining looting rights.

    If you heal a pet, whether it's yours or anyone else's, then you don't aggro anything. I'm guessing this also means you don't get looting rights if you heal a pet. So anyone who was healing a tank pet at an event to keep it alive isn't going to get looting rights. They just keep their tank alive. In a situation where the tank doesn't have to be a pet then you're probably as well using another player as the tank and sending the pet in when it's not the main target. If your pet is the tank, expect fewer supporting healers.

    Just tested it with my tamer this morning on Europa and if she vets her pets, nothing is even turning grey to her now. I haven't had the opportunity to test the other changes yet.

    Wenchy
     
  26. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Umm....Yeah. If event drops, normal drops, and loot rights are so different, how come I'm unaware of a situation in months and months where someone got an event drop without getting looting rights?

    Last time I saw that happen was very, very early in the introduction of the new system where healing counted.

    Then they changed something, I forget what but it was at best semi-announced, and since then they've seemed linked to me. And while healing technically still plays a role, the system clearly over-favors tamers and throwers.

    You don't really have to "out class" them, and besides, do you really think that under the current system you're "out class"-ing them by healing others' pets? Do you really think you're healing more with Magery than the pets' owners do with vet?

    -Galen's player
     
  27. silent

    silent Lore Master
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    If there was any real AI in the game the MOB should attack the tamer...
     
  28. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I will not be able to be on until late tonight; if anyone has the time and ability to check some of this out, please feel free to let us know.

    :)

    -Galen's player
     
  29. budman23

    budman23 Journeyman

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    I am not sure why some random Dev thought this was a good idea.
    It appears they are trying to take anything not broken already and break it.
    Another change no one wanted that caused a massive jumble of problems.
    Unless you think its right when your healing a dragon at an event to have the wandering healers all attack you.
    I mean common, someone actually thought this was a good idea over fixing bugs or how about factions that THEY screwed up.
    I encourage anyone that feels that this added value to the game to speak up.

    Otherwise I will continue to laugh at the people programming this game, and no were NOT laughing with you.

    I am also starting to get the feeling from many of these "changes" that are so poorly instituted and changes that are needed are completely ignored, I could now convince most of the remaining population at this point we would rather have NO changes at all ....ever, and would be just fine without anyone in charge but the guy who keeps the servers up.

    I think its time to speak up past Mythic and in my experience, Electronic Arts is starting to listen.
     
    #29 budman23, Jul 2, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2013
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  30. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    Here's what I'm reading: If you see someone fighting a monster, and it looks like they are faring poorly, just let them die, because if you heal them, the monster will switch aggro to you and murder your face.
     
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  31. catfish154

    catfish154 Journeyman
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    I think the whole system is a joke. To many whining, crying, jealous people not getting drops from events. If your not doing damage and just standing back out of harms way tossing heals now and then, you dont deserve a chance at a drop....if thats all you can manage to do, then don't do the events, plain and simple. Now all you guys managed to get a system that was doing fine, all screwed up. Thanks alot, hope you enjoy it now
     
  32. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Actually I always heard more whining from people who thought they should have been healed.

    -Galen's player
     
  33. Gheed

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    For what I've been seeing at events lately, some fella seems to be multi-clienting, which is ok. But they aren't even fighting the mob. They fight each other. Damage, take damage, heal and res themselves. All inflicted on themselves by themselves... not even touching the mob. I wouldn't think the damage would count towards a drop but I'm not so sure about the healing and resing. If anything positive comes from this change I hope that gets resolved... if it even works.
     
  34. Candy Cane

    Candy Cane Journeyman

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    I just went to cove 3 on my tamer and it looks like you got it right this time. I was able to vet my pet without the whole dang room attacking me. Thanks for getting to this issue, us tamers really needed this changed back so we could once again vet our GDragons.
     
  35. virtualhabitat

    virtualhabitat Lore Keeper
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    EA doesn't seem to be able to keep track of accounts, process credit card info, or operate shopping cart software. What on earth would make one believe they would be able to listen to a customer?
     
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  36. kRUXCg7

    kRUXCg7 Sage

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    Did they write "mob"? I don't think the word "mob" applies to UO. Maybe a minor case of "let's take this code from Game A and let's see how it works for UO!"? Trying that could mean one person got to do the work of 3 previous programmers.
    Afaik we don't have mobs, we have monsters. And we don't PvE because we are environmentally friendly. We do PvM, i.e. we fight against monsters. Monsters that otherwise might damage our environment.
     
    #36 kRUXCg7, Jul 2, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2013
  37. yars

    yars Lore Keeper
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    I was just helping a guy train,he had some mobs hitting him,I healed him and Im getting random aggro still
     
  38. Lord Lew

    Lord Lew Lore Keeper
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    Then it's working as intended

    Healing now only applies aggression towards a healed targets aggressors, if the healed target is not a pet, the healed target is not the healer, and the healed target has attacked the aggressor.
    Example 1: Warrior A is fighting Mob B. Healer C heals Warrior A and now has aggressed Mob B.

    If your friend is a sampire, using whirlwind, expect multiple aggressors..
     
  39. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    They have been doing that for years and years. I saw the old community rep Jeremey do it. That's how long they've been using that terminology.

    I also hate to break it to you but we players led the way on that, as we did on the use of the term "toon" to refer to character.

    Both terms appropriate from other games, both first used by players and eventually by the UO team, and both I ****ing hate but there's not a God-Damned thing I can do to stem the tide that's been rising for years.

    -Galen's player
     
  40. Kyronix

    Kyronix UO Designer
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    "Mob" is short for "mobile" which refers to any game object that has a movement characteristic. A "mob" doesn't necessarily need to be a monster - it can be a player, NPC, or a pet as well, but we generally refer to monsters as mobs simply for the fact that the code calls for isMobile() fairly often in reference to checking to see if a game object is a monster (we'll then make more specific checks for players, pets, and NPCs to eliminate down to a monster).
     
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  41. Barok

    Barok Grand Inquisitor
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    You chime in on this minor point but completely ignore all the other major points in this thread?
     
  42. wanderer1origin

    wanderer1origin Lore Master
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    heal invis tamers
    lol this is to stop heal invis tamers and bandie one, all kill lol no longer works AW play take risks is a sandbox not the sims
     
  43. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, if that's the case then, IMHO, in most cases playing a tamer will be NOT viable much any longer....

    How many cases are out there that someone heals another character's pet ? VERY few....

    How many cases are out there of a tamer having to heal one's own pet ? A LOT......

    So, UNLESS they changed it also for masters healing their own pets to back as it was, playing a tamer I fear is now quite a hardly playable role any longer in Ultima Online........

    As I see it, a tamer has to invest way too many skill points in taming skills to be able to keep the pet alive AND take care of too much aggro from MoBs at the same time. There are templates and templates and tamers are not Sampires or Throwers etc. they are only tamers and they simply miss a pool large enough of skill points to be able to fit all of the taming skills required AND whatever is needed to ALSO take care of MoBs' aggro....

    That's at least my point of view.
     
  44. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    popps, you seem a little late to the show. Tamers healing their own pets is back to the way it was.
     
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  45. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    The tamer in my guild (there's only one, because my guild deliberately is rather small) reports this as seemingly fixed or improved (depending upon your point of view whether the original issue was a mistake or an error in judgment).

    Many thanks.

    -Galen's player
     
    #45 GalenKnighthawke, Jul 3, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2013
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  46. Silverbird

    Silverbird Slightly Crazed
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    Actually healing aggro is nonsense unless you have a way for the healed player to get the aggro back (if he wants to).
     
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  47. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I can see a case for it. It's surely not "nonsense."

    However, while I can see a case for it and think it's clearly not "nonsense," it is not a case I believe in, buy into, or would have supported had they announced or tested the change prior to making it.

    The problem with several recent changes (this aggro. stuff and refinement most come to mind) isn't that they are "nonsense" on the face.

    The problem with several recent changes, rather, is that there's no reason to make them, that resources spent on changing systems could more-productively be spent on actual content rather than systems, and that some of these ideas seem appropriate to games other than UO. (No I don't think they literally "borrowed code," as some poster in this thread nonsensically asserted.)

    The tamer in my guild, same one who told me the tamer aggro issue seemed fixed, also keyed me into a very important fact: Turning the monster on the healer of a "tank" character makes sense in other games where true "tanks" exist. As Skrag (on his then-current disguise) pointed out months ago, what passes for a tank in UO doesn't really seem to be the same thing as how that term's used in other games. A "tank" in UO usually is a pet (which for present purposes is as much weapon and shield as it is a character, and "healing" it is as much like repairing a weapon as it is like healing a tank), or a life-leach warrior (and these have a greater ability to take care of themselves than do "tanks" as other games seem to think about them).

    As an example of a systems change that was beneficial and rather clever, I cite the heavy armor stamina damage absorption that was coincident with the much-reviled refinement. The stamina damage absorption change was clever and appropriate. So beneficial systems changes are possible. But, really, now.....Why would they think now was a good time to change the aggro. rules? What possible good effect could this have had?

    -Galen's player
     
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  48. Aroma

    Aroma Journeyman
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    Thank you Dev's especially if it works. Now for the tamer hater's, it is normally the Tamers responsibility to heal there own pet.
    If you wish to help the tamer then that is up to you. Pets are not tanks in high end encounters such as boss fights.
    I have always been respect full of people, who have helped me when I use my tamer, and I offer a share of loot/resources.
    Granted some times I drop it on ground instead of handing it to the person. I still thank them regardless. It seems to me some other tamers may have been not so courteous as me. So don't be hating on all tamers.
     
  49. Silverbird

    Silverbird Slightly Crazed
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    Healing aggro ...
    In other games, players have to care for some kind of aggro-management. A tank has basicly two mayor jobs to do: 1. Taking as much damage as possible and 2. Building up enough aggro on the mobs to keep them away from the healer(s). Healing aggro makes sense when the main agressor on a mob dies and the monster itselfs turns onto the (main) healer next. Unfortunately this is not the way it works in UO.
     
  50. kRUXCg7

    kRUXCg7 Sage

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    Well, they hadn't been mentioned. Language is important. Everything is important. Just ignore me if you don't deem that point important.

    Edit: I honestly don't understand what the rest is about, sorry. Too complicated. The only thing I understood was that they listened to players' complaints and adjusted some things which turned out to be a good decision, meaning I can heal my dragon without being ganked by the whole dungeon. I personally enjoy a slow pace in UO and still miss the old Wind park which had more animals than monsters.
     
    #50 kRUXCg7, Jul 3, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2013