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UO Forum Posters: Constructive or destructive?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Hannes Erich, Apr 28, 2012.

?

Do you think "compare and contrast" and "I quit" threads should be allowed? (Definitions below.)

Poll closed Apr 28, 2013.
  1. Yes. I think a high frequency of those kinds of threads has helped to improve UO.

    20.8%
  2. No. I think think a high frequency of those kinds of threads is counter-productive.

    52.1%
  3. Other/Abstain (Please describe your feelings below.)

    27.1%
  1. Hannes Erich

    Hannes Erich Seasoned Veteran
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    "Compare and contrast" threads and "I quit" threads are deleted (not locked, but deleted) on professionally maintained MMO forums by stewards who care about the public image of their games.

    An example of a "compare and contrast" thread would be the Diablo III thread, whose sole purpose is to rabble rouse, considering its context ("A nail in the coffin?"). "I quit" threads need no introduction. As if it weren't enough to send a few PMs, some folks decide to include the entire community in a going away speech laced with parting shots. Both of these types of threads are a form of trolling called bait. Hundreds of them are likely written every year, allowed to stay on the boards and even openly supported by moderators. Recently, a thread popped up that counter-trolled the people writing these threads, making fun of them very directly. That thread was locked pretty quickly. And rightly so. What isn't constructive is the double standard that was perpetuated by doing so, when that moderator and many others continue to participate in bait threads right alongside the community.

    You can defend this style of posting as much as you like. But it is destructive for the game. Complaints can be aired in a responsible manner alongside constructive discourse, but moderators should shepherd that process along to prevent a few bad seeds from treating the forum like a free-for-all shooting gallery, a reputation well-earned by Stratics--a reputation I wish would change this fifteenth anniversary. I understand that people are upset by this change and that change over the years, but en masse the unrelenting trolling and baiting--some of it going back over a decade--has been more destructive than any of those changes. Your grievances are valid, but that shouldn't be carte blanche to avenge your favorite publish era by hurting the game's chances today. More importantly, you lose the credibility to persuasively complain about the devs harming your game when you participate in behavior that harms your game.
     
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  2. OvenBird

    OvenBird Journeyman
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    I voted prematurely (it's a common problem, ok? :) ) No, I don't think these threads are helpful. However, sometimes people just want a way to express disagreement or disinterest, and that's healthy. Do not go gently into that good night! they say. Stratics isn't the official board of UO, so I can see why these posts don't get deleted automatically. And when there is a problem with the game, the Devs do listen to these disgruntled players. BUT, for those of us still going strong, they're just another obstacle. Sometimes when someone's done partying they want to close the club for good. We have to keep going, and just turn up the music a little bit louder. It's not as if we haven't all had moments of doubt, but there's always at least two sides of a coin. In the end these threads won't last. Give it a week, they'll probably all be gone from the front page, closed or just ignored. We as players can decide what we want to experience in UO. We also have the option to give an audience to whatever we care about here on the forums. If we've moved on from those threads, we should just move on. Thanks for this poll, for me that's it for that.
     
  3. O'Brien

    O'Brien Thought Police

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    To me, it doesn't seem that the role of a 3rd party forum is to simply make the game look good and say good things about it. On the contrary, giving players a place to publicly say whatever they want, whether it be venting steam or whathaveyou, with few restrictions, is better for all.

    Sometimes we just need to let off steam and maybe sleep on it before realizing that we don't really want to quit, like seen recently from one of the "I quit" posters. I'm glad Stratics is here providing this service for us, the playerbase, and I think the Stratics volunteers do an excellent job tackling a near impossible task. And I say that after having my own posts deleted more than once.
     
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  4. Rupert Avery

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    for me I don't think they are helpful to the people returning/joining... How ever I also see the need for a vent forum. On UOForums we have a 'Heated Discussions' forum which is basically for ranting and or discussing the more heated topics that might get a little well heated.. How ever it is not a forum that allows people to just say what they like you must not just attack anyone personally or anything like that. it just gives people a bit more room to moan about how they feel and gives the forum General Discussion a clearer path to remain focused and constructive.
     
  5. O'Brien

    O'Brien Thought Police

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    Yeah I am surprised some of these threads don't get moved to the Heated Discussions forum.

    <edit>Spiels n' Rants forum.
    UO Spiels N Rants


     
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  6. Driven Insane

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    I've never liked the "I quit and here's why" threads simply because I think anyone posting them is a drama queen seeking attention. When I quit I told who needed to know and didn't feel the need to inform the entire Stratics community.

    Also since a decent percentage of those people eventually come back (Like me!) it just makes their quiting threads even more stupid in the first place.
     
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  7. Hannes Erich

    Hannes Erich Seasoned Veteran
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    Just throwing this out there, but keep in mind, I'm not debating a general desire to vent. Any given MMO community's standards will vary widely on that subject, and it can be just as dangerous to stifle venting posts with an array of draconian forum policies. Where I believe we could do better are the specific areas outlined in my OP.

    It's disingenuous to play the 3rd party forum card given all of Stratics efforts to brand itself as a gaming network built on professional standards. Compare/contrast and I quit threads are commonly forbidden in the MMO industry because they're so commonly abused.

    And in spite of our best intentions, these types of threads also create a lose-lose situation for our community when throngs of people show up to debunk them, because the more passionate our participation is, the longer these threads exist to clutter up the front page. That sends a strong message and can make a lasting impression, however skewed. First-time visitors to the general discussion area only see oodles of overly negative thread titles with high numbers of replies inside. In this way, we supply these posts with an air of legitimacy regardless of our intentions, by fanning the flames, feeding the trolls, taking the bait, or however you want to say it.

    Like I said above, many of these grievances are valid, but the authors seeking to sew bait also know this and expect us to give them exactly what they want--legitimacy. It's okay by them if we argue their points, because after a couple of hundred replies, the damage is done.
     
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  8. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Do I hate threads like that? Sure I do
    Do I wish I could just delete on sight? You bet!
    Am I tired of being derided as a 'cheerleader' for trying to steer such threads into calmer waters? oh yes
    Have I tried over, and over, and over to tell people 'if you're going to criticize do it constructively?'. More times than I can count.
    Have I got an inbox full of vitriolic pms from people who's posts I've moved and threads I've locked because I 'muzzle anyone who speaks out against the devs'? Yes, I have, and so have most of my moderators.
    You say we allow to much of it - we have in boxes full of pm's calling us 'facists' for trying our level best to curb it.

    I will, however, concede that perhaps the option to move such threads to Spiels and Rants has been underused of late and will take steps to rectify that.
     
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  9. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Gilfane

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    I haven't read all the posts that followed this one, so I'm not completely certain that I would agree with any of them more than I agree with this one.... But, having said that, I agree with this one...

    Just sayin.....
    :cool:
     
  10. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Gilfane

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    Well, I'm going to have to disagree a bit with you - DI - but don't take it personally please. I see the "I quit and here's why" posts as a fellow Brittanian who has (typically over a period of years) become "disenchanted" with what UO has become to them - and has decided to finally "hang it up". For me, this is always a sad moment, because it means one more citizen gone from the realm - for whatever reason. And it is no doubt, obvious even to the casual observer here, that many have left in the past decade. I see these people as having posted their "I quit and here's why" thread as a way to state their reasons for their "disenchantment" while saying goodbye to the UO community - and I am glad to have the chance to say goodbye in return. I view these posts as a farewell and I just never considered them "stupid" at all.....

    Just sayin....
    :)
     
  11. Hannes Erich

    Hannes Erich Seasoned Veteran
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    Thank you, Petra Fyde.

    My apologies for overlooking your team's accomplishments--but please allow ME to vent for a moment.

    Please understand, the last time I quit UO, it wasn't after playing too much UO. I'd be happy to forward you some PMs between me and a well-regarded forum poster and former Origin developer who hasn't been seen around here since he PMed to explain exactly how deflated he felt after trying to embrace this community. I really wish this was a place that made people want to experience UO, but many people here actively seek to drive potential customers away, and their threads are just allowed to string along for miles. That's what frustrates me and it's why I'm here posting for the third time today instead of the third time in as many months. Customers with money, being driven away. Money for development resources for the studio. This community seems to enjoy shooting itself in the foot. Today alone I've seen people post that they "care" about the game while writing in the same post how they think the game is dead and hopeless. HOW ARE THESE PEOPLE HELPING when they gang up and graffiti up your forums with crap like that??? With near-zero marketing, don't they realize? WE ARE THIS GAME'S ONLY ADVERTISING.

    [​IMG]

    I've given a LOT of time and dollars to this pastime over the years. I don't regret that. I like the game and care about its ability to thrive. I don't want to call anything or anyone "hopeless".
     
  12. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Your options for the poll are a bit tricky. You ask if these threads should be allowed; my answer is that I think that they should be allowed. However your yes option states that "I think a high frequency of those kinds of threads has helped to improve UO." So I answered "other" for this since I don't exactly agree with your yes option.
    I don't think that a high frequency would help improve UO but I also don't think that there is a high frequency of them either at the moment. The reason I think they should be allowed is because people have opinions and sometimes people just want to say goodbye. Threads about quitting aren't always a simple "bash UO and bye" thread, those that are tend to be locked quite quickly. As for the compare and contrast threads, sometimes those are just for fun and it always boils down to the fact that UO is unique and it can't be compared to anything.
     
  13. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    They're not helping, and I wish they would comprehend the harm they cause.
    I just locked a thread that had been turned into an opportunity to dev bash instead of using a modicum of intelligence to think 'there must be more to this than can be publicly said'.
     
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  14. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    A forum worth reading is one where the people express and discuss their opinions, and it's absolutely not the role of the posters to act as nothing but cheerleaders for a game. Yes I find the 'ragequit' posts are worthless, and those that make no rational arguments for their actions or opinions are just self-publicising ego boosts since they can (but do not want to bother to - a real demonstration of their selfish disregard for the people they are 'talking' to through the forum) provide a rationale or context for their opinions, but a personal opinion thinking something is pointless or wrong isn't a good enough reason to prevent it being said. The argument it 'stops people joining' fails rather, since that is absolutely NOT why the forum exists in the first place.

    As for Hannes latest post - all those reasons you describe for your frustration are understandable, but here's the thing- we are NOT here on Stratics to make money for EA. That's EA's job. We are here to discuss, comment, criticise and praise the experiences we have of the game. If EA lose a potential customer because of what's said on a forum, EA can step up and sort out a genuine issue, or investigate what's apparently wrong, and keep the customer - of course, if it's just an 'I quit and am throwing a tantrum' post, all they can do is what we can do - ignore it and accept the 'loss'. You can't seriously argue that all criticism of anything should be kept silent or censored, and since opinion is personal, and this is a place where UO is discussed, those threads belong here - if not here, where on Earth would you suggest?

    Meanwhile, at the time of writing this.... I view UHall at '50 threads per page', and there are 8 of those 50 that are what might be termed 'negative' to the game - and of those 8 four are locked. It's NOT a huge proportion, and it's not allowed to degenerate into unchecked ranting. Some people have opinions and act in ways you or I don't like - but I've learned to live with it and I don't feel inclined to have them silenced for some abstract 'good of the game'.
     
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  15. Hannes Erich

    Hannes Erich Seasoned Veteran
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    Just another reminder, I'm debating the value of two very specific kinds of posts that are commonly used to abuse posting privileges, probably in any MMO community that allows them. More generally, criticism has its place, and it's a very useful place, I completely agree. I'm seeing a few posts here that describe my OP as a blanket anti-criticism post, and that is most emphatically not the case.
     
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  16. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    One of the things I liked about Cal, the previous producer, was that he did seem to understand that players need to be able to spell out their criticism and voice their dissatisfaction. Although I haven't been able to find it yet (it may have been in a PM that I deleted because we used to have less space for storing PMs), I distinctly recall him saying something along the lines of knowing you've lost a customer once they no longer even care enough to voice a complaint.

    I was able to find this post he made, although it's not the exact one I was looking for: [UO Herald] Producer's Letter - April 2010 | Page 2 | Stratics Forums .

    Everyone who posts here isn't a professional writer, nor do people always have the luxury of time to compose and then endlessly polish drafts of posts to smooth the rough edges. UO also isn't a free-to-play game, and I think many people who have played for years and/or have multiple accounts tend to view the time they've put into UO and the literally thousands of dollars in subscription and other fees they've paid over the years as a kind of investment. So, whether or not we all agree with that point of view, it is something to keep in the back of your mind when you read angry or critical posts that people sometimes make.

    If nothing else, perhaps it helps to view those "negative" posts as simply an expression of someone's passion for UO. Instead of bashing the poster for expressing their feelings and telling them to go away because they might be scaring off a potential subscriber, perhaps it might be more mature and productive to actually hear what they have to say and respond in such a way that it's clear to the poster that you are acknowledging their concerns and would like to try to steer the conversation in a more productive direction. As a new or returning player trying to join a community, it might be more reassuring to know that all voices are heard and acknowledged, not just the ones that strive to be always upbeat and positive.

    Maybe something we could all try to do is find something about UO that we enjoy and start a thread to expound on it. Surely someone else will join it at some point, right? If we all did it at least once a week, maybe the "positivity" would be catching. Who knows.
     
  17. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    "I quit" posts are, ostensibly, useful to the development team if they indicate why said person is leaving. If they aren't useful in that regard, presuming the person leaving has friends who also post on this forum, they are at least useful in letting that person's friends that they are leaving. If they violate existing rules, then, by definition, they're already not allowed, and therefore remaining function to them is moot.

    As for "compare and contrast" posts... again, if they're positively formatted and constructed, they should absolutely be useful and allowed. It is a way of allowing the developers of the game know what features from other games might be enjoyed in UO. There are certain universal things that people wish for. It doesn't mean they'll appear, but hey, believe it or not, UO is actually mentioned rather frequently on the WoW boards in requests for player housing, and most 3D games are used to request chat bubbles on SW:TOR.

    You really can't avoid compare and contrast posts... they're part of the living, breathing MMO universe.
     
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  18. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    No offense, Petra, and definitely not looking to start a huge debate... but EA sort of brought that lack of leap on themselves by providing inaccurate information, failing to provide any information at all, and so forth in a huge variety of things over the past 15 years. I'm not sure if you play games by other companies, but UO's track record on communication is pretty low on the pay-to-play market, and, truthfully, pretty low even when you consider the free-to-play market. Drop in the word "accurate" before communication, and that rating drops further.

    Now that's not necessarily reflecting current communication, which I think in some ways is better than under Cal, but in many others worse... but rather identifying the downward trend of the past 15 years. And yes, the counter-argument can be made that we, the players, have killed the communication by expecting things to be finished that were started to be developed, and reactions to this, that, and the other, but... that's the nature of a living beast. MMOs aren't like other games. They're an investment, no matter how often one says, "But it's just a game."
     
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  19. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    No, I don't play any other games but UO, which I love and support through these boards and the site to the best of my ability.
    I can see why the thread in question contained requests for clarification. I do not see why people chose to turn it into a dev bashing fest deriding the problem being fixed while having no real knowledge of the true scope of the problem.
     
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  20. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    That argument develops more in your posts, but is certainly absent in your poll options - and I understand the sort of post you criticise, and why. but the point of a forum surely is all views, as long as politely expressed, are fair comment? You can't be both in favour of freedom of expression and then say 'but some things should not be said in a way I disapprove of'.... you either let people speak freely and accept some of it, in style and content, you won't like (and that's where you use the reply option to disagree and point out the huge flaws in the statements), or you don't. Other than preventing clear abuse, anything at all should be freely said, and discussed.

    Posters are not to be divided into 'constructive or destructive', all any appropriate post does is open a topic for discussion - the inappropriate ones get taken care of pretty well - and if we disagree with the content, it's up to us to demonstrate why it's wrong and persuade others. Not just require those type of posts are never made or allowed to be visible.
     
  21. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Agreed on that front.
     
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  22. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator
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    For the so-called debate threads, I wish there was a way to enter "debate mode" that enables a poster to have only 2 posts per thread. The first is for them to state their issue. The second is a rebuttal post. It seems to me that most threads that degenerate have a high percentage of posts from two or three people that keep going back and forth. The factions threads, for example, are good examples of a useful criticism post that unnecessarily degenerated. If people had only voiced their issue, and rebutted once, then it would have been a cleaner discussion.

    This would not be necessary for posts in the profession forums where people tend not to argue about game mechanics, but actually help each other out. At least that is my opinion.
     
  23. Thav12

    Thav12 Seasoned Veteran
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    I agree with the op entirely. This post by obsidian, apart from the facts, I do not agree with at all. A better solution for people that have lost interest in a thread is to stop reading it and move on. The people debating are finding it worth their time spent, or they should have stopped posting as well... Can't put a gag on debates. Not healthy.
     
  24. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    My thoughts on it?

    Stratics is a FAN SITE and not a gripe site...
     
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  25. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Listening to those is about the worst decision you can make. I'm always surprised when I see how seriously those kinds of criticisms are taken.

    -Galen's player
     
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  26. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I am very glad you came back, Hannes.

    -Galen's player
     
  27. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    The ones that are quick to side up with those that quit... they would have quit prematurely anyways.
    Those that don't... maybe they can read between the lines receiving an alternate explanation.
    Many thoughts, ideas, opinions, and even speech, are affected by that person's biased personal feelings.
    Another quick example of this is one's Resume, as with games, where an experienced reader can read negativity or hostility towards a past employer in the manner job 'descriptions' and 'reasons for quitting' are written - if you're harboring a grudge, it'll show, and it'll show you aren't ready to move to that next step, a new employer, or game.

    When I explore new games, I read the forums, I look for a pattern, versus single disgruntled posts. I want to interpret both the Good and the Bad experiences, I want to know what to expect if I decide to play since the actual Experience in-game is subject to change per user.
    If the forum has limited the expression of it's users, then that community is not for me. Anytime a thread evolves into something different than the intended forum section it was placed, then it should be moved to the appropriate one. Cases involving extreme personal bias simply become Troll bait, often instantly becoming locked, as should be, also those which have denigrated into childish name calling (labeling). When a thread, which is 'meant' to offer expression of all has become directional, community voice is stifled. Sometimes people just don't understand, and need constructively explained to them.
     
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  28. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    From the very begining of man and woman on earth there have been oposiong sides on issues. I see no end in sight on this happening to any subject in the universe. Petra is/has been very generous in allowing some threads to remain running when If I was in her shoes would have cliped at the knees long before. I do agree with her and her mods that its time to curb them. Players forget they are adults and tend to scream and throw a tantrum if any do not agree with their point of view. There are a few posters who know they do this just to get players goats and to make them squeel. Tina is correct in the asumption that many are not professional writers with the wit and charm of the skill to compose clear and sound drafts, or the english teacher who's spelling is spot on, grammer is perfect, and understand the meanings of every word in the English dictionary. (even writers need help) I like to see that the dev is reading posts, the ideas many have come up with I hope the dev will take to paper and see if its a fit with UO. I encourage this most of all for us to use this forum with respect and courtesy for our fellow players.
     
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  29. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    Something I've always wondered about concerning that... Thinking a Dev's every move here can be monitored, so to speak, what thread they're looking at, etc, has Got to be pretty unnerving for them, and why couldn't there be a generic Log-in where they could anonymously Like or Reply without being specifically attached to an idea. It could offer a silent direction instead of going a flawed path we always take, that ends up in a dead end. Same w/ Mods, instead of just looking like a Grump a Grump (lol, and you know who you are), I know some staff do have alternates.
    Thinking anything that encourages Dev activity would be positive. When they want something more 'official' and formal, they would still have it. Not necessarily as cool as Grimm's Corner, just an enticement for interaction.
     
  30. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    Between UO and Stratics, I am not sure Petra would have enough time for any other game. :)

    Unless she has one of these in her backyard:
    the_tardis_whoohoo.jpg
     
  31. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    If a dev logs in and doesn't want everyone to see which thread they are looking at, they can always de-select the option in their Privacy setting that lets people see what page you're viewing. I'd guess too that the devs who feel compelled to post anonymously probably already have alternate log-in names and regularly use them to throw out ideas or get involved in discussions.
     
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  32. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Ah, but fan, from the root fanatic, doesn't realistically mean that you forcefully shift everything into the rose-colored-glasses-wearing carebear realm of loving everything about the game and thinking it's designers walk on water. Expecting people not to gripe/complain about what they don't like, problem/bugs they see, etc. is delusional at best... (edit: especially when this is the unoffocially official forum for the game and the main place the Devs deign to post)
     
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  33. Gilmour

    Gilmour Certifiable
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    i tend to ignore any threads with silly titles like "i quit" or "devs ffs do this" or "omg banned for nothing" or other similar whine threads.

    and tend to hang out in topics like "wouldn't i be cool if ___" or threads that involve a balanced view on an issue.

    I find that generelly if you looking for positive/suggestive/balanced topics exclusively, you should check any forum except UHall, since UHall seems to be the only place people whine, despite an issue may be more relevant in another forum ;)
     
  34. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    I manage the Combat Arms Stratics portal. While I can agree that some UHall threads are pretty poisonous, it's flowers and butterflies compared to the Combat Arms community. I hold my nose every time I sign into their fora.
     
  35. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    I agree totally - which is where the "Constructive Criticism" comes in rather than the bashing (tempted to use another "B" word there).
     
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  36. Gilmour

    Gilmour Certifiable
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    i moderate a shooter forum another place. and found generelly that shooter genre attract a lot of bad language and threads that would instant be deleted on uhall.
     
  37. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    So your contention is that a fan of something could not have any gripes with how something is handled? I understand you probably mean that griping without suggesting improvement is a bad thing, but on the other hand, I think fostering the good with the bad helps foster discussion as well.

    If everyone was pleasantly happy with everything and nothing ever needed changes, we wouldn't need the developers in the first place.
     
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  38. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    *chuckles*

    I'm not sure how it compares to shooter forums, but trust me, as having moderated an official forum for a game company, I can tell ya, you ain't seen anything until you've seen the arcade fighter players go to town on each other.
     
  39. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    Ah, yes...Bludgeoning
     
  40. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    I thought I saw you lurking here:

    shooter McGavin.jpg

    hmmm...this just made me think that naming a character Shooter McGavin and have him armed with a war axe might be kinda fun. FORE!!!!
     
  41. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    I agree in regards to constructive content....

    However, to be honest, some of these posts can be rather fun to read...In the sense of watching blooper reels.
     
  42. Meatbread

    Meatbread Journeyman

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    This forum, as I've said elsewhere, has a massive tendency toward crybaby nonsense. Go to the forums for any other similarly old game and you won't find anything remotely resembling the same tendency to bellyache and doomcast.
     
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  43. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Every MMO has plenty of bellyaching and doomcasting Meatbread.

    You've never visited the official Warhammer forums on BioWare.com have you?

    That is a group of people who is convinced their game is just months from being shut down.

    Based on my experience in Warhammer lately, and the fact that they have merged all of the shards they can realistically merge, the doomsayers are probably not too far off - it's in worse shape than UO or even Camelot. I still have no idea how they have enough players to support a dev team. Oh wait, most of their devs are probably working on the Warhammer arena game.

    If you want the most ridiculous extreme, World of Warcraft wins hands down. When they were down to around 10 million or so, there were people convinced that WOW was about ready to head to hospice care. Think about that. Down to 10 million or less and people were flipping out.
     
  44. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    This is why the vast majority of mainstream MMORPGs have forums - UO and Camelot are the only two mainstream MMORPGs that don't have official forums. Even Warhammer, doing worse than UO, has official forums.

    Stratics is a fansite and fansites should have all kinds of give-and-take and should not be afraid to criticize the devs.

    Official forums on the other hand, are just that - official forums. They exist to function as a formal, and more strictly moderated means of communication between the players and the company.

    It's another one of those things that makes you wonder. People who play MMORPGs are used to official and public communications channels, not posting threads on a fansite in the hopes that a developer sees it or that a fansite moderator passes it on to developers, or posting a Twitter message. It's not a good impression for those who have played other MMORPGs.
     
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  45. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    I actually do agree that criticism is beneficial for the community. Even angry criticism, if generally constructive, is helpful. The trick for all forum owners is to balance heated debate, which keeps users engaged/active, with pure vitriol and sarcasm, which drives users away and poisons the community.

    My opinion is that we tend to give folks the benefit of the doubt, despite reports to the contrary (mainly angry reports via PM, as Petra mentioned). On a different forum that I frequent, if you do things like ignore rules, spam, or create posts w/o looking for similar ones, your username is turned pink and this becomes your avatar:

    [​IMG]
     
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  46. Kael

    Kael Certifiable
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    When people post thousands of times on this forum for a multitude of years ( some 10+) they should have the right to express their feelings one last time. Yes it kinda sucks to hear that another has left the building. But it also sucks to hear people playing that bitterly complain about todays state of the game.

    Your part of a community forum and I would assume that someone leaving is also community forum news.
     
  47. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    *chuckles*

    To be fair, there is sort of a double-standard about searching for old threads around here... if you do the search, find the thread, and then ask a relevant question in that thread, if it's more than 6 months old, many users here accuse it of being thread necromancy (though, thankfully, silly, pointless posts are 100% accused of thread necromancy, which is a good thing).

    But yeah, different forums have different ways of moderating, that's for sure. The one that I used to run, I handled purposely oblique posters in methods that encouraged them to behave, up to and including changing name colors to hideous colors, adding titles that indicated something about their typical behavior, and so forth. I also announced the names (screen, not personal) of anyone banned from the boards and the reason(s) they were banned in order to help spread the word that moderation was taken seriously. On the other hand, we had few rules, so it was easy to keep in line too.
     
  48. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    Isn't there a gray dividing line between Thread and Topic necromancy? From what I've seen, Genuine concerns are usually left to stand, altho often short-lived, where it becomes a clone is trashed. :)
     
  49. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    It's a matter of judgement. People who see things black/white, like myself, don't make good moderators. Moderation is not merely a function of executing rules--it is a judiciary function. Thread necromancy, like you say, is one of many gray lines.

    Doesn't make sense to me, which is why I do portals.
     
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  50. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    *chuckles*