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[UO Herald] City Loyalty Ratings Explained

Discussion in 'UHall' started by UO News, Feb 13, 2012.

  1. UO News

    UO News RSS Feed
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    For each city, each player character has individual ratings for Love, Hate, and Neutrality. These values are numeric and the raw values are not displayed.

    • Performing beneficial acts in a city causes the city to gain Love for that character
    • Performing negative acts in a city causes the city to gain Hate for that character
    • Any time a city gains Love for a character, a small fraction of the city’s Hate for that character is converted into Neutrality
    • Any time a city gains Hate for a character, and that city already had Love for that character, some of that Love is converted into Hate
    • Any time a city gains Love for a character, all other cities will convert some of their Love for that character into Neutrality.
    • Hate for a character decays at the slowest rate
    • Love for a character decays at a moderate rate
    • Neutrality for a character decays at a rapid rate
    A character’s loyalty rating from a city consists of two parts: how well the character is known, and how “pure” the character’s actions are. There are essentially three possible outcomes:

    • If the character only performs beneficial actions for one city, the character gains positive ratings
    • If the character only performs harmful actions for one city, the character gains negative ratings
    • If the character performs a mixture of actions for a city, or performs beneficial actions for multiple cities, the character will tend to gain positive or negative ratings to a lesser degree or will gain distrustful ratings.
    Here are all the possible ratings:

    • Tier 0
      • “Unknown” – this is the default rating and all characters will remain Unknown until they have taken several actions to modify their loyalty rating from the city
    • Tier 1
      • Positive: Commended
      • Neutral: Doubted
      • Negative: Disfavored
    • Tier 2
      • Positive:
        • Respected (most positive)
        • Esteemed
      • Neutral:
        • Distrusted
      • Negative
        • Disliked
        • Detested (most negative)
    • Tier 3
      • Positive
        • Adored (most positive)
        • Admired
        • Honored
      • Neutral
        • Disgraces
      • Negative
        • Loathed
        • Despised
        • Reviled (most negative)
    • Tier 4
      • Positive
        • Venerated (most positive)
        • Revered
        • Exalted
        • Lauded
      • Neutral
        • Denigrated
      • Negative
        • Scorned
        • Shunned
        • Vilified
        • Abhorred (most negative)
    Notes about the system:

    • It is possible to shift a city’s favor slowly over time, but this is much more difficult for those with checkered pasts
    • Negative deeds are worth more hate than positive deeds are worth love
    • Negative deeds are remembered longer than positive ones
    • While the world is in chaos, all cities distrust each other. This is why trying to be devoted to multiple cities will just earn neutral ratings from all. However, this will not always be the case…

    More...
     
  2. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Thank you, thank you, thank you :thumbup:
     
  3. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    Whilst it's very good to see someone responding to all the questions about the mechanics of the town loyalty system, I still find it very disappointing.

    There's nothing any of us can do towards holding the 'realm' together by promoting a reduction in the levels of distrust and hate between cities - essentially no positive stance available for anyone to take for the cause of the whole realm, the nearest to positive is not taking part in the increased factionalism. Something seems very lacking for a game supposedly built around 'virtues' :(
     
  4. SinDee

    SinDee Seasoned Veteran
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    ^ I agree with what your saying Aurelius but keep in mind this is only the start of the story arc that will last all summer. They may later have it so that we will have a much larger role in are world but for now they want us to start out small and work are way up.

    At lest thats my take on it.
     
  5. R Traveler

    R Traveler Babbling Loonie
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    Cryptic for me still this.
     
  6. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Thank you very much for the informations, much needed.

    I am not sure I understood exactly how the system works, though.

    One thing I did get, is that whatever loyalty one has, be it positive or negative, it decays over time. Meaning, that like with virtues one has to always "keep it up".....

    While I understand it and find it logic, I can't help also seeing this as a bit annoying.....

    This means, that if I want to maintain a good rating with a Town I need, every day, to perform my set of "good actions"........

    I can understand it, but I still find it a "chore", something I "must do" to stay up in my Town rating......... Sounds a lot like work to me, something which I need to do whether I like it or not, should I want my loyalty to stay high........

    And this is made a tad worse also by the fact that the decay rate for positive loyalty is set as faster as compared to negative loyalty........

    I am not sure whether in the end I will be able to keep up with it, I mean, if this drags on for too long in the end it might become quite annoying to have to keep doing my set of "good deeds" every time I log in for several months to come.........
     
  7. flappy6

    flappy6 Sage
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    so........whos on first?
     
  8. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    Ah I remember it well, the invasion of Britain, which went ON and On and On and On and ruined West Britain Bank for all time. Lets hope it doesn't last that long.

    I see that the decay rate for positive is stated to be moderate (for moderate read excessive for the very reason posted above).

    Working characters for hours to be rewarded with the ranking falling back next day is poor planning as far as I am concerned.

    Finally posting the actual rankings after some players had practically worked them out is all very well but telling us that the decay rate is moderate and leaving it at that just annoys me even more.

    There is no information about the relative values of the different actions and no indication of how long we have to keep this up. For me the way this is being run, on a scale of 1 - 10 (being recklessly generous is) I award it 2.
     
  9. Nails Warstein

    Nails Warstein Rares Festival Silent Auctioneer
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    This part makes me wonder if we should all just wait, and stop what we are doing. Whats the advantage of gaining loyalty with just one city early on in this arc of events, when eventually you can gain loyalty with them all?

    Also on another note, Chesapeake had Raider specific items as loot, will these items be available to all shards, or just for that Chesapeake event?

    Reference this post http://vboards.stratics.com/uo-rares-collector/261199-fyi-chesapeake-event-2-9-12-a.html
     
  10. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    So... you never explained what the love and hatred does... you only explained how to get it... sounds pointless.
     
  11. Cerwin Vega

    Cerwin Vega Lore Keeper
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    Guess we have to wait and see, the anticipation is half the fun.
     
  12. Vyal

    Vyal Guest

    I agree, I would like to know the reason behind be going out to put out fires and all that. Ok so I get a good loyalty rating, other then role playing purpose what good does it do and what is it used for? Explain that or I won't waste time doing putting out fires. There really is no fun in it so.
     
  13. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    What I see occurring is that at some point, some of the cities will start allying with each other, and at that point, neutral ratings (especially over the base tier) will convert into positive ones.

    So, for example, if you were Respected in Minoc, and Distrusted in Vesper, then the two cities became allies, the Vesper rating would change to Esteemed (And you would then have to work up to Respected there).

    Or, perhaps, an alliance loyalty replacing the city ones (though points for the pre-alliance ones would still be tracked for when a new city is added, and post-alliance points add to the pre-alliance points of all the cities in it).

    There's multiple ways of doing it and as for individual city ratings, the true selfless hero would care not for these, only doing the right thing (but I doubt we'll see many go that route and get tier 4 neutral in all cities).
     
  14. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    Loyalty...yada yada...pick a city...yada yada..

    All people want to know is which city is best to be loyal to for the best lewt at EM events. Thats pretty much how this all boils down.

    Frankly for no current benefit I see no need to start a second job of trying to gain loyalty.

    I'm a smith first and frankly I think turning in bods in a particular town ought to gain tons of loyalty points. I mean, I"m filling a NPC request.
     
  15. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I don't know about anyone else but I think the decay is a bit HIGH. Just saying this is supposed to be fun not a full time career.
     
  16. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
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    what is the big push for everything in game to decay with the current dev team?

    first its the virtues, now its the new stuff.

    makes it real hard to wanna work up anything now a days with everything always in a constant state of decay.
     
  17. Aibal

    Aibal Slightly Crazed
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    +1. It's why I gave up working on the virtues, which is the opposite of what it SHOULD be like in UO. I play too many characters on too many shards, and trying to maintain compassion, sacrifice, honor, justice and valor became too time consuming. You grind it to reach maximum, why should I have to grind it to maintain it? This new event takes at least a couple hours per character, depending on how busy the shard is, to reach adored. I can't imagine the time required to reach the fourth tier. Meh, I think I might sit this one out as well. I play to have fun, not grind crap to overcome the decay. This is immensely poor planning on the devs part.
     
  18. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    /signed

    Maybe they will have some pity on us and give us some more of the _____ sages, like they did with compassion. Well, leave Valor out, that is very easily taken to Knight. That makes it a little more tolerable. Can even tie it in with you having to be a seeker to use it, so you actually have to work it the hard way some first.
     
  19. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    So you play more!
     
  20. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    I bet IF something does become of loyalty there will be no benefit for having negative loyalty...
     
  21. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I hope new ways to help the city show up soon. As it is the 2-3 things that you have to do to gain loyalty, are super repetitive.

    I did the current stuff far longer than was borring, and I'm just at respected.

    I have to believe there will be more to it soon enough. I hope so anyway.
     
  22. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Would be pretty cool if I had negative loyalty to Brit, people with positive loyalty were orange to me :).
     
  23. Apetul

    Apetul Rares Fest Host | LS April 2011
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    I agree, especially when alot of ppl have more than 1 account and play alot more than 1 character or ppl playing on diff shards.

    I only did the city loyalty thingy the first day (01/31) and get bored when I reached Tier 3. 13 days later (today, 02/13) im at Tier 1. Makes no sense, it wasnt even fun.
     
  24. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    My point exactly, I suppose the thinking is, if things decay players will need to log in and play regularly. If so the premise is false, players log in to PLAY yes, but Play does not equal grind, and the current event is largely grind with no definitive end in sight. Forcing players to slog at pointless tasks will I believe have exactly the opposite effect and cause players to become heartily sick of what they are doing.

    I too USED to do the Virtues but that just became much too boring to do endlessly. Having reached the peak you should remain there unless you use the virtue somhow.

    So I too would like to know the reason that decay has become such a integral thing with UO, personally I find it unecessary to a great extent. Certainly I have already become bored with endlessly arresting rioters, clearing rubbish, and putting out fires. What should be a game and fun is like work and an endurance test.
     
  25. andartshome

    andartshome Journeyman
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    im going to dissagree with most and devs please dont say to much then at least the ones that work hard now can reap the rewards first while all the moners have to catch up
     
  26. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    I was quite disappointed that there's no mention of any advantages or disadvantages for being loyal/disloyal to any particular towns.

    I know its pretty early yet, but most of whats posted has already been found out by some of the players.
     
  27. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    It's probably how they found out too...
     
  28. Kojak

    Kojak Lore Master
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    I can't believe all you people don't realize how to game the system - obviously, you don't work your loyalty now because it decays - you wait until they release the npcs that hand out the rewards like the singing balls for each city that are in the clilocs - then you bust out about 100 angry rioters in 1 day, get your singing ball and then call it a day and never work loyalty again until the whole "being neutral" phase 2 goes in - jeez, do I always have to explain the way of the powergamer each and every time? (hehe)
     
  29. Nails Warstein

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    I agree. END DECAY!
     
  30. BajaElladan

    BajaElladan Certifiable
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    I have a Question and a "side comment." My Question is: Is the Global Outcome already determined for all Shards by the Dev Team? Or is it possible for different outcomes on each Shard based upon actions of the Players?

    My side comment pertains to the recent changes involving crafting NPC's and "Bribery." Why was bribery chosen rather than some "virtuous" action(s) by Player Characters???
     
  31. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Not a clue, I like to ride the story arc and find out the ending at the ending tho. My guess would be same for all shards like Magincia was, but ya never know :)

    Good question. Just a guess on this too... Maybe because when push comes to shove the NPC Blacksmiths are "breaking the law" that is placed on them. I know in real life I am not going to risk my job, livelyhood and freedom to give anyone anything just because they do a good deed. Sure I would applaud them and thank them, but wouldn't stick my neck out to get tossed into jail for them. However, cash is king, I may be able to be persuaded to do a little more than I should if the price is right, especially when times are tough. Maybe the Smithy's think of it that way *shrugs* Times are tough all over the place, the guys are doing what they have to in order to feed their young'uns.
     
  32. mana hit

    mana hit Babbling Loonie
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    does anyone know if you lose your loyalty points or rank if you transfer that char to another shard?
     
  33. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Up to a point, as I see it..........

    If the annoying "chore" becomes too much a burden because too much time consuming and repetitive, chances are that the players "give up" and stop doing it, althougether......

    So, the "side effect to design pushing players to "play it more" is design which pushes players to..."stop playing it.........".
     
  34. Stig

    Stig Guest

    Play...dont play..... just do.

    I for one dont see it as a chore to defend Britain from Raiders.. i could care less if other citys get better rewards at the end of the day.. i just wanna save the city.

    Have fun.
     
  35. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    I'm hoping it can be different on a per-shard basis.
     
  36. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    I don't disagree with the decay, but I disagree fundamentally with the way it's done.

    Now there's some arbitrary moment in the far future that we don't know about, at which point the system will take a snapshot of our character, and that's what's used to determine the consequences or rewards or whatever it is.

    But if I work hard now, keep it up for a month, but then grow bored and have decay, I lose out if the snapshot is taken a week later. While another player, that only did some tasks 2 days prior to the magic moment, runs off with all the glory.

    The system should either give points for your title at the end of each day and tally them at the end or otherwise make a snapshot of your character every day and use averages at the end.
     
  37. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    It would be awesome if there was an actual repercussion for not defending a city, but I doubt very highly that the loyalty system will effect anything other than the rewards you get.

    Id love to be proven wrong, but I doubt they will let a city disappear because no one did the inane clicking out of fires.
     
  38. Stig

    Stig Guest

    Me either , but its a game, :)
     
  39. hen

    hen Certifiable
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    Where is the fun in double clicking fires and garbage over and over again?

    The devs need to ask themselves, "Is this fun?" with anything they add to the game.
     
  40. sativa green

    sativa green Journeyman
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    this is incredibly boring and lacking challenge.
     
  41. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    I too hope it develops more - it just seems an odd way to begin, choose which warring faction you 'support' and then, when and if the realm 'reunites', what happens based on what you did? (Although it would make some sense of the rapid decay of loyalty, if it is going to fade and the divisions be mended at some point in the future with a new government for the whole realm - but I fear that's not the idea at the moment, just an explanation I can come up with for some rather strange design decisions).
     
  42. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    • Needlessly over-thought new game system Check
    • Decay rate making it pointless/annoying to maintain Check
    • Carpal tunnel syndrome inducing repetitive actions Check
    • Tissue paper thin in-game rationalization Check
    • "Fun" dissipates after the first hour or two Check
    • Vague references to later stages "changing things" Check
    While there are still seven + months to go of this arc, so there could be positive changes on the horizon, starting it out as a grind just doesn't bode well. We know, or at least we assume, from cliloc spoilers that there are prizes in the future. However, just judging by their names they seem very...meh.

    I want to like this arc, I really do. I've enjoyed the GL-specific parts of it from our EMs (aside from forcing us to fight raiders in Vesper and thus potentially screwing up our loyalties)... But, we need a reason (beyond the OOC knowledge of future pixelcrack) to partake in what feels like a very contrived scenario. We need some non-shard-specific backstory ASAP. (It's been nearly a month since the last piece of fiction...) The books able to be found in the cities are a nice touch, though Moonglow's book appears to be missing.



    Things to improve the what we have:
    • Weekly fiction which progresses the over-arching scenario across all shards. We need some who/why/when/what stuff at this point. Continuously being vague gets old fast.
    • Drop or seriously curb loyalty decay. Not all of us have hours to devote to this per day. We shouldn't be punished.
    • Add city titles into Pub 75 which unlock after you reach 'Adored' in your city of choice. Something simple like "CHARCTER NAME of CITY" would suffice. This would give a relatively easy-to-achieve sense of accomplishment, but otherwise give no material benefit. (once the title is unlocked, it remains so) Further titles could be added later, such as "Protector of CITY," etc.
     
  43. Hildebrand

    Hildebrand Certifiable
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    *sigh*
    I don't have time to play much, let alone grind something that will decay. I hope they really thought this thing out and not beta testing us again.

    I'm tempted to log to try this "event", but what's the use if it decays? Do I at least get a town title? A special town emote? Something to remember it by other than pixel crack? Only time will tell.
     
  44. Kas Althume

    Kas Althume Crazed Zealot
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    Lord Kas Althume of Britain. I do like that. ;)

    /vote end decay of things

    I captured alot of rioters, extinguished lots of fires and removed a ton of grabage. Now that i read it will decays, i stopped it. Yet another system killed by the devs before it got fully implemented. I got my own company running. When i have time to play i want to have fun and relax a little bit. It is NOT fun if i work the system today, just to be set back when i find the next time to play. I pay for the accounts, why punish me with decay? I don't get the point of decaying virtues/loyality.
     
  45. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Yup back to mining. Need to keep the pucker factor up on the NPC smiths.
     
  46. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
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    LOL!

    BTW.. exactly how long does it take to go from "Adored" back to "Nobody"?
    Has anyone timed it yet?
     
  47. Surgeries

    Surgeries Grand Poobah
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    Here are the lyrics to a terrific old Rush tune...Neil wrote the song after seeing graffiti on the side of a building while they were on tour that stated: "You can't have freedom for free" or something like that:

    You want town loyalty to go up? Then do something...today.

    Don't care enough to do something today? Then understand the trade off: You don't have to do anything for town loyalty today, but you won't gain anything.

    You just don't, and absolutely should not...get Something for Nothing.

    All of our Loyalty decays...not just yours. I work a full time job...practice music 4-5 hours everyday, and I am still Venerated on a couple of my characters. Good enough. And if the Loyalty decays over time, because they set it up that way, you sure have a right to voice your dislike...but you are not alone in having to maintain loyalty, and you are not alone in the rate of decay.

    But I don't expect that loyalty to last unless I do something about it. That is the way it is set up.

    I can either do nothing...complain like you are doing...or spend my "complaining time" building loyalty.

    I guess you can tell which choice is mine?

    Also...in closing, Popps...one other great line from Mr. Peart:

    "If you choose not to decide...you still have made a choice..."

    :scholar:
     
  48. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    what i dont understand is the guard captian tells u the jails are full so just kill the rioters yet when u do the town then hates you...what gives was the captian lying????
     
  49. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    It's a game not a moral imperative. It is possible that systems are not well designed for the fun of the players. It happens.
     
  50. Silverbrook

    Silverbrook Guest

    We have been informed, countless times over events, that our actions will have meaning in a larger sense.

    Every time, we have been let down, and this has not come to pass.

    I remain cautiously optimistic that something here will be different... I hope. And while it is all right to not 'spill the beans' as it may be about upcoming plot points, I honestly think that they should be more upfront about why we are indeed obtaining loyalty points. For now it is merely 'just because'.

    Like the poster, woodsman, has stated in a multitude of posts, there is a certain veil of secrecy for some reason that UO feels it needs to have that other games lack. There is also a distressing lack of communication that we face other games do not possess.

    I have contributed to the event thus far for primarily rp reasons. But to the average player, this may not be enough. Most games require some incentive to participate, and other than vague things others have seen in clilocs, there is absolutely no point to continue for them.

    The things that are being asked of players are, unfortunately, tedious (putting out fires, handing out food/ clothes, arresting rioters). It is not terribly engaging, which is what the main objective should be when you want to appease players. You want to give them a continuing reason to want to log in. For a select few, I am sure this may be entertaining. From reading these boards and my own personal experiences from listening to numerous players from two shards, the majority do not find this fun or exciting. Which is a shame... because the notion of cities in chaos could be very, very enticing.

    I personally like Martyna's suggestion of town titles, and would have been a wonderful addition to an incentive from the get go. I can only hope that the development team is able to push out better, more inventive territory than what they currently have for us in terms of this event.