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[UO Herald] FoF: Mystic Insight

Discussion in 'UHall' started by _zigzag_, Oct 24, 2008.

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  1. _zigzag_

    _zigzag_ Sage
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    Some 56 tidbits, and ton of Q&A on Mysticism! Plus, be sure to look for your shard in the Fansite News section - there are a LOT of player-run Halloween events coming up.

    To read the full article, click here.



    More...
     
  2. Chaosy

    Chaosy Guest

    I can see it now...

    A mystic places flamestrike into spell trigger.

    Runs up to someone that's cursed with spell plague.

    Exp/fs/spell trigger fs/spell plague explode hit = Exp/fs/fs/fs combo!

    YES! I thought we were trying to move away from overpowered one-hit kill templates?
     
  3. Why can't they keep the SA related stuff on the SA site and out of our FoF! That looks like a easy escape from answering something "recent"... NOW?
     
  4. Flora Green

    Flora Green Guest

    All that stuff and only one thing interested me. Think I need a nap.
     
  5. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    You can't place magery spells on a spell trigger. Spell trigger is limited to mysticism spells.

    What you have to watch out for are combos with existing hard hitting combos.

    What happens if you go exp/triggered bombard and the bombard stuns them. Then you can easily cast curse/flamestrike

    What happens if you precast cyclone, target a group of guys with it and then recast it with your trigger? We don't know how much dmg cyclone does or if the dmg is reduced when it hits multiple targets, but it is a lvl 8 spell, so it probably hits pretty hard.

    I have to think about it a bit, but I think spell trigger will be way overpowered.
     
  6. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    Bleed poison strangle spell plague?
     
  7. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    I'm trying to get a better understanding of how sleep works.

    Is that saying that sleep will not stick at all on people with 120 resist? In other words, is it saying that 120/120 sleep would stick for 12 seconds vs 0 resist and 0 seconds vs 120 resist?

    That's how I read it, but I just wanted to see if that's how everyone else reads it.
     
  8. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest


    That would hurt a dexer, but a caster would probably have a hard time getting spells off, which would reduce the liklihood that they get bown up.
     
  9. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    120+120/20 = 12. So ya, 12 seconds at 120 Mystic/120 Eval with that 12 scaling down to 0 against 120 Resist.
     
  10. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    Ok, Spell Plague is a pretty complicated spell. I think I understand how the FoF is describing it now.

    Targeting: AE around target (4x4)
    Damage Type: Fire
    Damage: Same as flamestrike
    Duration: 15 seconds at 120/120 mystic/eval
    Cooldown before it can be recast: 30 seconds (reset each time the spell harms someone)
    Chance to harm: 50% at 120/120 mystic/eval vs target with 120 resist target

    So basically, you can be in "cooldown" mode and still be harming people with this spell if they still have the curse active.

    Every time someone is harmed by the curse there's a 50% chance it will expire.

    If this is how it works, it sounds like a really interesting spell that will add dynamics to group pvp fights and pvm.

    I could see it being really powerful for raiding champ spawns, because pretty much everyone at the spawn would be in the process of damaging the champ, so they would not only be hitting something other than the caster, but the caster would potentially be able to effectively flamestrike several people at once.

    I could see it as being a useful in pvm for tamers and Mystics using Rising Colossus. Basically, the mystic could tank a bunch of monsters with the pet or summon and curse all the stuff the pet is tanking.

    This spell will probably also be commonplace in factions and other many on many pvp.

    Cool spell...

    Spell Trigger will definitely be powerful... possibly too powerful.
    My main concern is that people could potentially do fast-kill combos using it with a scribe/mage/mystic. I wouldn't object if spell trigger was removed from mysticism for another spell. Maybe there's enough delay in using a spell trigger to allow someone to chug out of an instant kill, but I certainly am concerned about that. I realize that combos like explosion/fs/triggered cyclone could be interrupted, but the sleep spell would allow someone to do that combo against anyone that doesn't have resist (or someone who does if you EO them)

    Purge magic has a lot of promise. My first thought when I read this spell was "ooh! I can now strip those silly samurai of their evasion". Maybe evasion can't be stripped, but I bet it can. The spell would also be useful when fighting peerless bosses that use spellweaving spells, because you can strip off gift of renewal. I'm sure there will be places in SA where this spell will be really handy too.

    Cleansing winds is a great idea for a spell. I think it will be used a lot in many on many pvp fights and large group pvm. Pack tamers would love it too if it worked on followers. This spell may be tricky to balance, because of all the things it can nullify. I'm assuming the cast time will be about as long as lvl 6 magery.

    Sleep is a great idea for a spell and I like how they balanced it. It won't be overly powerful in pvp, because 120 resist nullifies it. EO/sleep is likely to be a common pvp combo, but that would only be a max of 6 second sleep on a 120 resist player.

    I think tamers are going to like this one for taming aggressive pets. It would be challenging to use this spell to tame things like greater dragons, though (super high resist). I guess if you discord/eo/sleep a greater dragon, it would be manageable, but honor taming would still be the prefered way to tame greater dragons. Tamer mystics will have to rely on other skills to heal their pets, though... there is no mystic spell that can heal pets.

    Bombard could be an interesting spell for pvm. It looks like it will do about as much dmg as energy bolt, but probably physical damage. This would be the only slayerable spell available that does physical damage. The knockback/stun is just an added bonus.

    I could also see it being used in combos with spells form other casting skills. If you manage to get a stun out of this spell it could prevent someone from escaping while near death.

    Stone form looks like an almost completely useless spell to me. Has anyone thought of a situation where you'd use it? If it absorbed a percentage of damage done to you instead of increasing your resistances, I could see myself using it. My resistances are generally high enough that a resist buff does nothing for me. Also, losing cast speed, movement speed and swing speed is a pretty large price to pay. It could also be interesting if this spell was a buff like corpse skin instead of a morph. Then you could be a stone lich or a stone reaper and so on :)

    I interpreted hail storm to be identical to meteor swarm, but cold dmg instead of fire dmg. I think it would be a great addition to UO, because mages don't have a cold-based spell that works with slayer spellbooks (a common problem for pvm mages)

    After the FoF, it looks like Nether Cyclone will be an Energy-based AE around target similar to chain lightning. Since it's lvl 8, I'm assuming there will be something about NC that is better than chain lightning.

    Rising Colossus sounds a lot like Energy Vortex. I'm assuming it will be a physical-based EV that's probably very durable.

    I think Enchant will be used about as much as Emmolating Weapon (spellweaving). Maybe I'm wrong... I guess a mage/tamer using mage weapons might use it.
     
  11. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    Healing Stone: bone as a reagent? I would have thought a mystic mudball of fertile dirt, but I suppose the stone is assumed to come for free?

    Enchant: I assume this will work like consecrate weapon where it follows whatever is in hand? (as opposed to being a property added to the weapon? I'm wondering how the duration will show in the UI, or if it will show). Will it work with wrestling?

    Eagle Strike: hmm ... Zelda:Twilight Princess? :)

    Stone Form: will this stack with magic resist resists by any chance? (I have a concept of an unarmoured monk in the back of my imagination)

    Mass Sleep: *makes note to keep an eye on this one*

    Spell Plague: so ... like an blood oath that works on all attacks instead of just one's against the caster?

    Nether Cyclone/Rising Colossus: cool - I'm a fan of summon-mages over direct-damage mages :)

    (aside: uohearld playguide should likely have a section under magic that links to the various magic skills)
     
  12. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    Not exactly. Blood Oath reflects dmg back based on the dmg done to you. Spell plague blows up in your face if you attack whether you did dmg or not (I think).

    For instance, if you plagued someone and they cast curse on you, I think the plague could blow up in their face.

    Now, you could blood oath someone and then cast spell plague off a trigger. That could potentially really screw someone up. It would certainly give them a reason not to attack you, which would open them up to be attacked.
     
  13. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    ah yes - I didn't take into consideration the fixed vs damage-dealt. Yes, being stacked with multiple retribution-type effects could really make a mess of your day. Don't let liches know about mysticism please :)
     
  14. Leurocian

    Leurocian UO Legend
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    Absorbing a percentage of damage may be a better way to go with that rather than a bonus to resists. I'll ponder on this for a bit and make a note to come back to it.
     
  15. Sleep:
    The creature is not frozen, and can move, but at a much slower movement speed.
    (walk speed? +)
    The creature is inflicted with a 45% Defense Chance Increase penalty while under the effects of this spell.
    (-45 dci +)
    In this state, the creature will be unable to attack or cast spells.
    (calmed)

    So for example if you have a necro mysticsm dexxer (or anyone with an hld wep), you can hypothetically hit someone with an 8s -70 HLD & calm & walk mode?

    Or am I getting my wires crossed? The last part was taken from the SA site and says creatures not players so does it do one thing on monsters and something else on players? Do the HLD's stack?

    With -70 HLD and as good as frozen to the spot and unable to cast or attack while being interrupted every 1.25s by 35ish damage wouldn't it be easier to just delete casters altogether? That seems to be what your aiming for... Oh and of course theres the area version.

    Stone form... because dexxers weren't hitting hard enough already?
     
  16. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    I was thinking about this a little and started to realize that balancing dmg absorption is considerably more involved than I initially thought.

    At first I was thinking how there's only attune weapon and swamp dragon bardings to absorb damage. Then I thought a little more and realized that leeching attacks could potentially make someone invincible if the absorption is too strong. Then I thought about how parrying and bushido/parry could play into the mix. Then I thought about healing stones/potions.

    One interesting idea I had was to make stone form reduce dmg of attacks based on how far away the attacker was. So basically, archers and spellcasters would have to get close to penetrate your stoney shell.

    I think the mobility penalty may be enough to balance an ability like that.

    Either way... I don't think it would ever be overpowered in pvp if it has the mobility penalty, because people would always be able to just run away even if they were on foot lol. Actually, you'd be REAL vulnerable to pets with the mobility penalty. On top of that, the FC and SSI penalties are probably enough to prevent a stone form player from killing a pvper before they run out of range.

    Also, if someone adopts a "turtling" strategy in pvp without the ability to chase people down, they invariably invite a gank :)

    So I think the critical issue will be figuring out whether the buff you give makes it so people can do things in pvm that you don't want them to do.
     
  17. Ifful

    Ifful Guest

    Now that's the best answer to an either/or question I've ever heard.:)

    Q: Would you like chicken or beef?
    A: Yes.
     
  18. Leurocian

    Leurocian UO Legend
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    Q: Would you like chicken or beef?
    A: Yes.

    Kidding! Yes. You can pick what hit effect to enchant. Sorry about that! :)
     
  19. Does HLD from weapons & -45 DCI from sleep stack to make -70?
    Does sleep = walk, -45 DCI & no casting against players?
     
  20. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    Think of the walk speed as the movement speed of reaper form.
    -45 DCI only lasts while they're asleep.
    I think the connection you draw from sleep to the calm effect is accurate.

    Remember, the sleep effect is broken as soon as the target takes a hit. So you could drop someone's DCI until you hit them once. So, a sleeping target would only have the DCI penalty until they get hit.

    What template are you thinking of as a necro/mysticism/dexer? Obviously you would have a weapon skill, necro and mysticism. If you want to use sleep, you would probably want eval int on your template too.

    Sleep has a 0 second duration when cast on a target with 120 resist regardless of your eval/mysticism skill levels. This gives pvpers the option to have resist spells on their template to prevent being sleep-locked. This also means that your only option to sleep a max/resist target is to evil omen them first to get a max of a 6 second sleep effect.

    Necro/dexers usually use a strategy where they precast strangle and then combo someone to death with effects like bleed, poison, concussion blow, etc. If you're trying to go with a sleep strategy, you can't open with strangle, because strangle would break the sleep effect.

    Necro/mystic/dexer does have some interesting/scary combos such as Dismount EO/sleep. That lets the dismounter remount himself leaving you unmounted. If you can pull off Dismount EO/Sleep without using your spelltrigger, you can do some very mean kill combos.

    For a Necro/mystic/dexer, I'm actually more concerned about spell trigger than sleep. If you tack on a spell-triggered lvl 7 or 8 damage spell on top of the already existing necro/dexer combos, that's pretty scary. Strangle is a lot more dangerous when someone can instantly pound you with a high lvl spell to punish your stamina bar.

    On stone form... I'm assuming the DI on stone form doesn't take you beyond the DI cap. Also, the mobility penalty on stone form is just like reaper form. I am 100% confident that stone form would be almost completely useless as it has been described. Most people don't need the resists, because they get those from their suit and the mobility penalty makes you a sitting duck in pvp. Even if you have ranged dismount, you can't outrun a player on foot, because you're restricted to walk speed.

    I'm sure I'm missing stuff. What specific combinations are you concerned about?
     
  21. "I'm assuming the DI on stone form doesn't take you beyond the DI cap."

    Going on past form with expansions and the years of unbalanced pvp that follows I wouldn't assume that.

    "What specific combinations are you concerned about?"

    Omen sleep. You're basically going to be a sitting duck if you get hit with this, time for them to block you in, call a dismount, call a gank. Even if theres a couple of you theres an area version so xhealing will be out of the question. -45 dci for one hit, so that they can get a garunteed hit with their -25 dci. Why not just make HLD 100%?

    There was a post on here a few weeks ago that said how mages can barely scratch dexxers anymore, being unable to cast much over circle 4 - whats it going to be like when you can't cast any spell? Can't move? & are vulnerable to melee 100%. On top of this does it also do damage in itself?

    I think this is going to completely obliterate casters.
     
  22. Leurocian

    Leurocian UO Legend
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    It should not be possible to store a rank 7 or 8 mysticism spell in a spell trigger. The highest stored spell will be rank 6 (at 120 mysticism and 120 imbuing)
     
  23. calibek

    calibek Journeyman
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    This is my opinion but..........

    I think a good idea for stone form would be the following

    - Decrease the amount of damage from all attacks (physical, magical, ranged) by about half
    - Increase the amount of damage (minor)
    - Dramatically decrease casting times and weapon speeds (make longer casts and swingtimes, about half)
    - After a certain amount of hits the stone begins to crack increasing damage reduction from 1/2 to 1/4, decreasing damage by 1/2, and raising casting times and weapon speeds, then after a certain number of hits the stone skin will break.

    This will allow stone skin to be more defensive than offensive and more useful than it's current version and give the spell a nice uniqueness about it.
     
  24. athos_uo

    athos_uo Seasoned Veteran
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    Hi, Leurocian! I'm glad to see you here in Stratics coming out of dungeons!

    How do you think about naming what you call "Spell Trigger object" in FoF more simply as "a spell-storing-stone" or most simply "a spell stone"? I thought of it, because I couldn't at first understand what "Spell Trigger object" is.

    I understand that "Spell Trigger object" used in "Rank5: Spell Trigger spell" is an equivalent of the "healing stone" used in "Rank1: Healing Sone". If you make "Spell Trigger object" as a stone-like item, we can call it "spell stone" at ease. It can be considered as a stone, in which we can store spells.

    In the history of UO, a stone is always an important item. For example, we had moonstones, So, it is not a bad idea, to name this object as "spell stone".
     
  25. Leurocian

    Leurocian UO Legend
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    I rename the spell trigger object and call it spell stone. That sounds like a good suggestion. Thanks Athos!
     
  26. Phaen Grey

    Phaen Grey Lore Master
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    I am getting excited about the possibilities, now to find a character to fit mysticism onto.
     
  27. athos_uo

    athos_uo Seasoned Veteran
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    Thanks! *bows*
     
  28. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    That limitation makes the ability a lot more balanceable.

    I can see bombard being still substantially powerful (especially if it stuns the target at a bad time), but you don't have a situation where a single player can nearly kill a group of people in a few seconds.

    I also have concerns with Evil Omen + a spell triggered sleep spell. Basically, you could combo someone down to where they have to start healing and then you could evil omen them and hit your spell trigger to sleep them for a minimum of 6 seconds. That leaves them with only potions and bandages (and I guess Gift of renewal if they happen to have that up) to prevent death. It also gives you 6 seconds to perform a high end combo leading with explosion.

    Of course, in a pvp situation, A well geared pvper could eat an apple or hit a pop box to get out of dodge before you can get your high end combo off, so I'm not willing to say it's overpowered yet.

    I think it would be possible to build a pvp Mystic/Mage/Necro if you were willing to make sacrifices defensively to have more offensive power.
     
  29. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    On a side note, this is where a lot of the balancing issues come from in this game. The powergaming of taking the best parts of several skills that don't really fit together to make a nasty template that is just too nasty on the nasty scale. If EA put some skill limitations in they could cut down a lot of those issues.

    And, for all the 'but we want template options' people, you can have a broad variety of templates available while still not allowing things like Chivarly Necro's or Samurai Vampires in the game. A little more rp in this mmoRPg game would be a great improvement.
     
  30. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    I understand and share your concerns. EO/sleep is absolutely something that needs to be evaluated during the balancing process of mysticism.

    I also understand why you chose necro/dexer/mystic as a template that scares you, because I've seen necro/dexers in action. Scary! :)

    Dexers certainly have the upper hand in UO pvp right now. There is going to be a balance pass over all weapons and the specials associated with those weapons, though. I think chivalry and possibly bushido are getting a balance pass too.

    It's difficult to know exactly how new skills will impact the game, because part of our thoughs are based on how things are now. I agree that the track record has generally been to completely unbalance combat with the addition of each new skill, but the track record has also been to tell us next to nothing about skills until the expansion is in beta at which point design-level holes can't be addressed in time.

    Leurocian has certainly been breaking the mold by giving us more details than they have ever given us before historically. He has also broken the mold in how much he attention he has given us and used our feedback to evaluate the likely impact of new skills.
     
  31. Leurocian

    Leurocian UO Legend
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    Thanks a lot for the feedback. The reason I'm sharing all these details now with you all is to get as much feedback as early as possible, so the skills and systems we introduce are well thought out and hopefully balanced. UO has over 11 years worth of content and systems, so it's certainly a fun challenge to be sure. :)
     
  32. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    Oh my yes... The customizeability of the UO skill system makes it very difficult to introduce new skills and have them be balanced.

    Speaking of balance...
    You mentioned that at 120 imbuing and 120 mysticism a Mystic would be able to store up to a rank 6 mystic spell.

    I assumed that means that the equation used to determine what rank of spell a mystic can store is something like (Mysticism + Imbuing)/40 with a minimum of 1 (meaning that if mysticism + imbuing / 40 returns a 0 you would add one).

    If that's the case, I actually think spell trigger would be pretty balanced. Squeezing imbuing on a combat template makes it a lot harder for people to really gimp out their template. Also, you made the equation in such a way that everything scales all the way up to 120.

    Also, if I understand this correctly; a Mystic would need to invest 120 skill points to put a rank 3 mystic spell(sleep) on a spell trigger.

    I like it :)
     
  33. Leurocian

    Leurocian UO Legend
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    Here is the breakdown on how many total skill points are required for spell triggers:

    Total Mysticism and Imbuing Skill Points Requirements
    Rank 1: 40
    Rank 2: 80
    Rank 3: 120
    Rank 4: 160
    Rank 5: 200
    Rank 6: 240
     
  34. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    So that means that all humans will have access to rank 1?
     
  35. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    I don't think so - spell trigger itself is a 5th rank spell, so (following the magery charts) you need a 38 skill just to have a 1% chance of success.
     
  36. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    Technically, the way UO works now it would be possible to trigger rank 1 spells using +skill items on a human character.

    The only rank 1 spells are nether bolt (probably about as much dmg as magic arrow against a random resist) and Healing stone.

    Healing stone wouldn't be particularly useful on a trigger.

    Nether bolt would probably not be that powerful on a trigger either.
     
  37. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    Well, that brings up the question of whether there will be +skill items for the new skills ... there weren't any for spellweaving and I don't have a problem with that.

    (don't forget that +skill doesn't stack with the human bonus, so even if there were +15 jewels, it wouldn't be enough to cast spell trigger)
     
  38. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest


    I don't know what I was thinking... I was thinking magery and talking about mysticism.

    I seriously doubt that there will be +skill items for any of the new skills. I think the devs are trying to phase out +skill items or seriously limit how they are used.

    So anyway... scratch what I said about being able to cast a trigger without any skill investment.
     
  39. Leurocian

    Leurocian UO Legend
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    There are no current plans to add skill jewelry for the new SA skills.
     
  40. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    Hmmmmmm, will JOAT give benefits for all these new skills?
     
  41. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    Leurocian? 120 points of spell resist is completely immune to 240 points of Mystic+Eval Int? That math seems a bit fuzzy to me. Do you work on Wall Street? :p
     
  42. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Actually, 120 resist is immune to ONE spell from a 120 Mystic 120 Eval character. Resist doesn't do a thing against 95% of the spells/powers/moves etc... in the game. Its a large skill point investment for a small small benefit. Almost not worth it.
     
  43. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    If it wasn't that way it would be very abuseable. It's only a Rank 3 spell, so it's roughly as fast as fireball and it reduces DCI by 45.
     
  44. Magneto2272

    Magneto2272 Guest

    and yet Resist is still a requirement to play any form of viable melee template. categorically...
     
  45. peanutbutter

    peanutbutter Guest

    what's the point in giving the victim of sleep a 45% DCI?
    does this beat the hard cap for DCI?
    is there any PvP player out there not running with at least 35%dci? :p

    further, why only give them protection against melee attacks? why not give them an "evasion" effect for the duration of the DCI effect as well?

    or better yet, don't give them DCI at all.

    a) there's no reason to assume that a "sleeping" target can defend tehmselves better than an awake one
    b) there's no reason to penalize ONLY melee attackers against sleeping targets
    c) what good is the spell? we already have paralyze and it works better!

    i'm just not seeing the point in it as it stands. i must be missing something... what am i missing?
     
  46. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Campaign Supporter Gilfane

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    Alright, who´s the wiseguy? :fight:


    I clicked it thinking it was this weeks FoF... :p
     

  47. Me too! :yell:
     
  48. Oriana

    Oriana Babbling Loonie
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    Me three!!:rant2:
     
  49. Petrify

    Petrify Lore Master
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    Do you mean publish 57?
     
  50. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    *psst* check the date of the thread.
     
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