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[UO Herald] TC1 Balance Testing Changes

Discussion in 'UHall' started by _zigzag_, Jan 9, 2009.

  1. _zigzag_

    _zigzag_ Sage
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    TC1 has been updated with Balance Testing Changes. Patch notes are available in the regular place.



    More...
     
  2. Draconi

    Draconi Most explosive UO Legend
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    Quick note: These are candidate changes for Publish 58 - we're releasing them early to TC to gain as much testing and feedback as possible. They won't be officially released to the servers until P58, even though the publish notes talk about P57.

    Also, the designer responsible for these specific changes will no doubt be introducing himself and joining the thread at some future point. :)
     
  3. Smokin

    Smokin Guest

    I really don't understand what they are explaining, like what all does this dimishing returns and immunity apply too.
     
  4. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    Not another damage over time ability. How is a mage supposed to even play without protection on anymore. Every time you turn around another damage over time ability if being added to the game.

    They really need to consider a change similar to bandages where a certain amount of damage needs to be done before you disrupt a mage. This disruption ability could be tied to Meditation/Focus skills. For example a 120 Meditation mage has a 99% chance to resist being disrupted by 10 damage or less.
     
  5. Chaosy

    Chaosy Guest

    While I think something needs to be done about the current state of PvP specials spam, I have a feeling that a system like this would be easily exploitable.

    I can imagine people building up immunity to certain things before they even go out to point, instantly granting them an advantage over the opposition. If both sides do this, we're back at square one. Low damage output = harder to kill = longer fights, which is nice to an extent, but the balance of this is going to be impossible at worst and extremely difficult at best. I can also hear dexers crying "nerf" ... :(
     
  6. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    The entire idea seems overly complicated and while the idea of reducing the usefulness of certain items/abilities with increased usage seems OK for a few things, eventually it will probably be added to alot of items/abilities and eventually become a programming/balancing nightmare.
     
  7. I especially like this part in the notes title...

    Publish 57 Mar 21 2005 4:13PM CST
     
  8. Setnaffa

    Setnaffa Certifiable
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    I'm not so sure of this change.

    If they are going to do this, they should also consider lowering the damage of weapons and the resists of armor as they are worn out. Should I be able to do as much damage with a sword that has 5/255 durability as compared to one that has 255/255? I think not.
     
  9. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    Dimishing returns? Mr. Tact?
     
  10. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    Wow we are turly a race that seems most happy punishing ourselves.
     
  11. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Someone needs to explain all of this to me in English. I mean I get that conc blow stuff but what's all this immunity and whatnots? And what are they talking about with heal pots?
     
  12. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    Ya is this PvP only... as in added to the fel ruleset?
     
  13. Another balance publish that fails to address pets.

    :(

    Another balance publish that fails to address hide/stealth.

    :(

    Did you know that Talon Strike and Concussion blow aren't nearly the problem that pets are? That is because you can disarm someones weapon and then they can't use Talon Strike or Concussion on you.

    You can't disarm pets. You just have to absorb their ridiculous random damage and if it doesn't kill you, it will on the next try or the one after that.

    BTW: Dispel Evil already works against some player summons. Try not to mess that up since apparently EA doesn't know that.
     
  14. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    How long do you plan to leave this on TC1 before you push Publish 58 out to Origin?
     
  15. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Not entirely true. I have a pally archer (whom I apparently suck at) and I love to use Dispel Evil on summons. It doesn't work on pixies and most of the summons from mages.
    It does work on daemons that is what I can say for sure.
     
  16. It works on Demons and Earthies for sure. It might work on Fire El's etc... too but no one ever summons those.

    You are right, it doesn't work on pixies. It also doesn't work on revs.

    The point is that apparently they dont' know that it works on some summons so I'm hoping they don't mess it up from lack of knowledge.

    That happens a lot.
     
  17. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    it seems that dispel evil dont make to flee anymore :(
     
  18. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    me too! I'm totally lost.
     
  19. It says in English that they nerfed Talon Strike, concussion blow and heal pots and boosted dispel evil. Instead of simply reducing the damage and increasing the timer (things people can actually understand) they created a new system.

    Because we all know that you never fix something simply when an opportunity exists to create a whole new something!!
     
  20. Please no.
     
  21. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    I thought this balance pass was going to be about making unused weapons, especially two handed (War Hammer, Bardiche, Halberd) useful again. Perhaps even fix the situation with armor so that something other than Leather/Samurai Mage Armor is useful.

    Instead they are going in and messing with..............heal potions? When was the last time someone complained about that. There has been a 10 second timer in-game forever. What about the heal potion dexers get every second with Close Wounds which has been complained about for years? This isn't a good start.
     
  22. Traveller

    Traveller Guest

    While I have nothing against the "immunity" thing in principle, what is written above is certainly true. People will just build up immunities before the fights. Too easily exploitable, I am afraid.
     
  23. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    My read of it is that they are testing (with this small number of specials) a system of diminishing effectiveness of a repeated action that could then be used more broadly. One tiny piece of the puzzle to test first.

    (as always, I could be wrong)
     
  24. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Draconi, when can we expect to see a list of balancing measures for tamers and our pets? Please don't say "soon" :D

    Please say you forgot to add it to the list *wink*

    Wenchy
     
  25. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    They trying to nerf heal potions? Umm you know we use it in pvm also? Fine if they wish to do that can they nerf the 100 damage per sec,speedhacking by multiple hits creatures in the game? Stop with the nerf wagon already. I hope this system is only in a pvp environment. Remmember again 3 diferent shards and playstyles trammel,feluccia,siege.
     
  26. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Seriously some of it sounds like it was translated from Japanese on Babblefish:
    Or
     
  27. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    *wonders if it will work for iocane powder*
     
  28. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    Looks like also changes to Non-fel champ spawns, with possibility chance for special item for working the spawn, AND increase in drop rate to 30% overall? Can someone confirm I read that right?
     
  29. Capricious

    Capricious Guest

    Are these changes the ones recommended by that focus group? *whimpers*
     
  30. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I'm puzzled about whether there is going to be an overall implementation of the idea of developing immunity to and providing for diminishing returns for all types of "combat tactics," or just changes to the Talon Strike and Concussion Blow special moves and the use of heal potions.

    Are only those three things being changed, were they just singled out as examples of changes for the "publish notes," or are they just the first three changes of many to be included in Publish 58 that made it through QA in time to be included in a late Friday publish to Test Center?
     
  31. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    No that stuffs already in... read Draconi's post above ^^
    The new stuff is everything before the "Publish 57 notes" line
     
  32. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Yalp, I think everything that you see below the "Publish 57 Notes" header is old news and already implemented. Almost seems like someone took the HTML text from the last publish notes, did a really quick dump in of some other new stuff and didn't bother to chop off the old stuff before they posted it.
     
  33. If I can survive something long enough to build up an immunity to it then it is a pretty good indication that I don't need immunity.

    How about universal immunity to insta-kill pets? That would be fine.
     
  34. Teeshy

    Teeshy Guest

    Doesn't matter - I spent the last few years building up an immunity to iocane powder. (And I am from Australia! :eek: Must be a criminal!)
     
  35. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    So will it still be possible to run those templates without healing? I don't run one I'm just curious.
     
  36. Fox (Europa)

    Fox (Europa) Guest

    The problem with a reducing effect with pots is that it is applied to all templates and this will have a much worse effect on healing dependant characters. Mages already have a very quick (heal) and quick (greater heal) way to heal up and having pots on top of that might be over-powered but dexxers have only the long time of bandages which are often interrupted. They need pots to survive since the dex cap was introduced.

    I mean, where are all the "OMG, nerf pots!" posts? Compare that to the gazillion posts about greater dragons that are completely ignored by this pass.

    Also concussion blow just isn't that big a deal either. Its only on slow weapons and it's average damage is less than an armour ignore.

    Sorry Draconi, you have just missed the target on this one. Go back, take a look at the boards and see what people have been pleading about and have another go at this.

    Oh and this immunity stuff... Don't you see how much this will be abused? Groups of players will be flamestriking, armor ignoring, paralyzing and poisoning each other to buff their immunity just before a fight. It will be rediculous.

    Fox
     
  37. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    Ohh cool time begins for huge ganker groups ;), because if i loose resistance of healing much and a big group full of resistance comes i have no chance anylonger!

    What is with the Tamers? No change here!?! I think this system is crap like the old profecy system or how was it called?

    PvP atm is nearly balanced and doenst need such a huge change, the tamers are a bit to strong, archers have a too high moving shoot and concussion damage output, but all in all iam satisfied how it is!
     
  38. Vandetta

    Vandetta Guest

    Really? Something so in depth and nothing to do with tamers?
    To be honest I don't see how we are balancing at all here.

    As for the mad Mage in previous replies. You can't miss on magery as you can with a weapon. I play all kinds of chars including a mage. Mages have always been a strong char and will continue to be.
     
  39. Fox (Europa)

    Fox (Europa) Guest

    Here's a prediction...The dev team will do what they always do, they will stick this on test, everyone will complain about all the problems and bugs and despite this it will be on Origin a week later and on all shards a day after that. Wanna bet?

    Fox
     
  40. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I hope the developer that is working on this has a handy list he can share of all the other special moves and "tactics" that are considered to do "damage over time." Otherwise, we may not all be on the same page when discussing whether the changes to Talon Blow make it too powerful when stacked with the other damage over time moves and tactics.

    A couple of questions regarding the immunity to healing potions:

    If I'm reading the notes correctly, it seems that you will get a diminishing amount of benefit from drinking them until you hit the point of only getting 50% of the effect of the potion. Then, with the next heal pot you drink, you will get no effect, unless the immunity period has expired. Is this a correct understanding? If yes, how long do you have to wait until immunity is back to 0%? Will immunity reset to 0% all at once, or will it lower from whatever it is back down to 0% over time? Can you please provide examples?

    If you have Alchemy skill and also wear Enhance Potions items, how quickly will you gain immunity to the effect of heal potions?

    Any chance you want to clue us into the immunity formula when wearing EP items so folks can decide of it even makes sense to wear EP items for purposes of healing?

    Do you plan to apply the immunity idea to any other potions?
     
  41. ElRay

    ElRay Guest

    Yep.

    I like how they add more garbage to this game, that noone asks for, and they dont fix a gdamn thing, which EVERYONE asks for.....

    Uo's bastardization is almost complete, gjob devs, im sure your resumes are swollen with ineptitude and the ability to ignore your customers.
     
  42. Millie

    Millie Guest

    Messing with any players ability to heal is flat out a mistake! It has been proven to many times before that a fix to help pvp has in the long run only hurt the normal Player. Instead of making this change and that change that will only brake or make a new exploit. Put longer timers between chugging pots or or casting heals or cures. and make them all the same base heal. all heals heal at 30 hit points all band-aids 30 hit points all pots 30 hit points. I don't know why the Dev team has to try to make ever fix so complicated. The more complicated this game get the more players you lose and frankly we can afford to lose any more. If "Mr Tact" and his dream team would never of started messing with the way things were we would not have half of the problems we have now!


    Just a note after reading this thread again,

    Fox, you forgot to state that they will publish it on a Friday and there will be no in game support until Monday. So all the broken bugs will be exploited with out anyone to stop them.
     
  43. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    Inconceivable!
     
  44. ElRay

    ElRay Guest

    Or an Aborigine playing a didgeridoo
     
  45. Looks good to me ,well needed changes...
     
  46. I don't understand why Talon Strike is even a consideration, unless I'm confusing it with something else - it's available on only one weapon, a two handed weapon at that, which basically means no one uses it in PvP? It does -50 hpr for 5 seconds which makes it less than armor ignore?

    I think you really missed the point on concussion with this immunity to the mana drain effect... People don't conc you to stop you having mana they do it to do more damage, yet the damage will still be unaffected? If anything you made it worse, by making it a constant amount. (unless that amounts really sh!tty in which case no one will use it at all)

    I don't know why you're messing with heal potions but I would think the chaining of special moves like mortal, moving shot and disarm are a bigger problem.
     
  47. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    Get a Few guys to cast para and poison fields and every ones thru them real fast to become immune to Posion and Para, wait les add fire fields too.

    So the raiding party is immune to fire / poison and Para.

    They could effectily run thru ANY defneses and attack.

    Resist Spells might as well be used for well NOTHING?

    How about we work on real issues, Speed Hacking, wait that doesnt exist they tweaked everyting werver side so everyone can only run as fast as the slowest MAN. LMAO

    Use of Trapped Boxes, will they become usless over time also, wait i could just beceome immune to paralyze now even before i get in a fight.

    This is SOOOOOO sad and SOOOO far off base.

    Fox has it nailed they will put it in everyone willpick it apart and it will hit us anyhow.
     
  48. Which of course would be solved simply and effectively by raising the mana cost and lowering caps on mana regen and LMC.

    Mr Tact hated caps.

    Caps work fantastically.

    Unfortunately, someone at EA still thinks like Tact.
     
  49. Ni-

    Ni- Guest

    If the idea is to disuade the attacker from using the same tactics over and over, why is the diminishing returns based on the target? Shouldn't it be based on how often those tactics are used by the person using them? It just seems a little backwards. I don't PvP, so take that with a grain of salt. I prefer Kosher.

    Was Talon Strike over powered before? Or is it only now becoming somewhat useful?
     
  50. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Wait... no one said anything about poison and para did they?
    Am I missing something?