1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

UO is a Sunk Ship

Discussion in 'UHall' started by JC the Builder, Oct 26, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,154
    Likes Received:
    708
    Today I laid it all out for the UOGuide staff and I thought that I might as well make a similar post on U Hall. This is perhaps my last.

    Ultima Online is not a sinking ship, it is already on the bottom of the ocean. Subscribers are at an all time low, the UO producer heads up 2 other MMOs, there hasn't been an expansion 3 years, there hasn't been a booster expansion in 1 year despite them being every 6 months, game additions are few and far between, etc.

    I haven't "played UO" since about Stygian Abyss. My logins mostly consist of checking houses to see if I need to activate accounts. The thing I loved most about UO was PVP. But you can only love something so unbalanced, buggy, and unchanged for so long. I managed to stick it out longer than most people, saw them come back and leave again.

    I attribute UO's leaks to a few main culprits.
    Electronic Arts - If it wasn't for Richard Garriott fighting so hard for this brand new genre of game, we wouldn't be here today. It is unfortunate that he ended up leaving the UO team and left everything in charge of a company who has no idea what they are doing when it comes to games other than Madden. EA never expanded the UO team or reinvested its insane profits back into the game. Only 21 people programmed and designed Renaissance expansion. The entire salary of the UO team was paid in less than 1 month of subscription fees at that time.
    Producer Chaos - I don't presume to know all the facts about how UO was developed. I can only go by the results we have seen. From Renaissance "it won't be a mirror" to Age of Shadows being a hugely dividing and buggy expansion, to Samurai Empire "ninjas are cool" to nothing for 3 years to the hugely disappointing High Seas, we just haven't had good luck. Draconi was perhaps the best UO producer since Garriott and he apparently was laid off one month after finally launching the 3 year albatross that became Stygian Abyss. Our most recent producer seemed like a cool guy but leaves without a word. I don't blame him for jumping ship to a new opportunity if one presented itself.
    New Client Drain - The quest to make a better client for our 16 year old game has been a failure. It first began with Third Dawn, a resource hogging, bug ridden, motion sickness inducing experience. About the only thing they got right was requiring it to visit the new facet. But it was just so bad that they had to systematically revert features back to 2D. It finally died when Kingdom Reborn came around. Unfortunately all the mistakes were repeated with uncanny accuracy. All this led to a drain on an already sparse development team who had to develop, support, and test for 2 game clients. Then there are the game clients we weren't told about, of which there is at least one. And the UX:O game which obviously took resources away from UO. Now we share resources with 2 other games.

    Developer Anxiety - Since Age of Shadows, there have been very few major additions to the game. By major I mean core changes or sweeping updates. To me it appears that after creating such a divide and driving away so many players, the developers decided that all changes must be kosher and acceptable to at least 90% of the players. No matter if it is slowly killing the game or leads to stale expansions. One blatant example I can give is how monsters are so vastly underpowered compared to players. I can sit with my unarmed mage and let an Ettin or Troll or a dozen other things hit me and my life will never drop. In fact I can punch it to death. I remember when you could die to a Headless One and a Troll was an 8 out of 10 difficulty according to Stratics. UO needs major additions and changes to make it fresh and fun again. Even Blizzard realizes this with their controversial Cataclysm expansion. They have a game with 10 million players and can do that, yet we can't manage to balance combat because PvE might be a little more difficult?

    Misguided Development - UO's development history is littered with unfinished, abandoned and wasted projects. From the much maligned virtue system, to a complete Faction revamp that was universally hated and didn't solve the core Faction issue (rewards for owning towns) to fish tanks, it has been a rocky road. There are just so many things that could have been better if only development time was allocated correctly. Before you work months on a major game addition, maybe you should run it by the players first. Developers can develop blinders and think what they are creating is so great that players will love it. EVE Online's CCP games had a severe case of this recently, releasing an "expansion" which did absolutely nothing. It was so bad they just announced a 20% layoff and have refocused everything back to making spaceships instead of Sims Online. What part of UO screams gladiator combat? They should be focusing on something more game changing than Arenas in my opinion. Currently there is no expansion/booster/major publish planned besides something you can already replicate in a Felucca house.

    About the only thing UO has going for it is the community. It has been absolutely outstanding. Every time I see a website (Ianstorm, UOPowergamers, UO Weddings, UORadio, Tradespot, UOLS) go offline or become a ghost town it makes me sad. Most of the people left actually playing UO are going to be here until the servers shut down. I believe they would accept drastic changes if it meant an attempt to make the game great again.

    This topic isn't meant as a doom and gloom prediction of UO's future. I make this to simply outline the current state of UO in hopes that it will change direction in the future. There are so many people out there who want to play UO again and now I find myself being one of them.
     
  2. curlybeard

    curlybeard Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sorry to see you go. Thank you for all your contributions. UOGuide is a great resource.

    I would ask you to reconsider, but clearly this is not a decision you came to lightly.
     
  3. TheGrimmOmen

    TheGrimmOmen UO Legend
    VIP Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2004
    Messages:
    779
    Likes Received:
    303
    Thanks for what is obviously a heartfelt and well thought out post. I'd like to point out one small correction to something you said and that is that Draconi was not a producer for UO.

    <returning to the shadows> Thanks again for the post.

    Cheers,
    Grimm
     
  4. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,271
    Likes Received:
    120
    While I agree with most everything you stated here,there is one thing I would want to bring more attention to that you have noted.

    If I were a UO developer,I would be spending time in a new TC server that would be very much like the "Winter Wonderland" server we had available years ago.I would be putting up new items,additions,and features in that test server to see what the player base would be drawn toward. I would put up boards so players could leave feedback.
     
  5. canary

    canary Guest

    Great post, although I would also add 'Developer Apathy' to your list.

    Trust me, I'm pretty nearly ready to cancel my account as well (at one time I had 4, which became three, and now just one). It becomes frustrating to see a game with so much potential have so much working against it... and the worst part is, it appears that no one cares, from most of the development team, to the current producer, to EA itself.

    A shame, to be sure. While I never interacted much with you here, I respected your posts. This is the second time in two days I've seen a well respected member of UO's players bid his more-or-less farewell to the game.

    I suspect it won't be the last post from someone to share your sentiments, however.
     
  6. Ned888

    Ned888 Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    362
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree with your post and it's sad. I don't think anything is fully irreversable however.

    Part of your second to last paragraph caught my attention most of all:

    I believe they would accept drastic changes if it meant an attempt to make the game great again.

    I firmly believe this too, which is why I continue to spout off about drastic changes which are possible and could fix this game.

    Parting words: Fix it and they will come. Leave it and they will leave....
     
  7. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2003
    Messages:
    1,911
    Likes Received:
    173
    And thank god for that! Regardless of what his title was, he has been to date the most significant loss ever felt in UO IMO.
     
  8. AirmidCecht

    AirmidCecht twitch.tv/airmid
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2004
    Messages:
    2,297
    Likes Received:
    486
    When I review threads to highlight feedback I like to wave orange sticks over good constructive discussion. The thing is when you say, "This topic isn't meant as a doom and gloom prediction of UO's future" but you title the thread "UO is a Sunk Ship," the message is already lost before you open to read it.

    I really wish we could get that point across but frustration at the direction of things and lack of updates filter over here and we understand that. I just wish I could highlight good points without the doom and gloom title.

    I see both sides of this as a player and as someone who understands the other spectrum and we are trying to assist where we can to make up for it. We are trying to be part of a solution to help with the problem. I know I get accused of sporting poms but I do think there is still opportunity to accomplish a great many things with UO. If anyone can it would be this community :)
     
  9. Thav12

    Thav12 Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2008
    Messages:
    416
    Likes Received:
    26
    Not contradicting anything, Grimm, merely correcting a meaningless fact? GrimmOmen, thank you for closing the door on Ultima Online.

    If this was not your intent, perhaps you can come out from the shadows again and give us a heartfelt and well thought out post telling us about your impression of the state of the game. I am actually still logging in and enjoying the game...
     
  10. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    2,382
    Likes Received:
    648
    One of the problems this idea would face is the fact that because of its unique "sandbox" style UO players simply run to wide a gamut in personalities and playstyles. I would be surprised if you ever see a majority of people "like" something as opposed to "hating" it.

    Of course you would also have a large percentage somewhere in the middle.

    And JC I would also like to thank you for UOGuide and everything else you've brought to this community in the past. Hope you don't totally disappear.
     
  11. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,726
    Likes Received:
    286
    I am not sure that it has sunk quite yet. I think there is a lot more that we can do to bring some life back to it. Yes I agree that the EA suits and the devs have a lot of uphill work to do to get everything back where it should be. That being said I think that we as players need to bring people back into the game get folks caught up. We need to keep on the devs about what needs work. We need to keep debating among ourselves what is good and isn't good and coming up with new ideas. As long as we can keep pushing forward we can make the game better. I for one plan on fighting for UO as long as there is still something to fight for.
     
  12. Ned888

    Ned888 Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    362
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm with you! I just wish we knew if our ideas ever even got seen or considered. Once again the snake eats it's tail and we come to communications.

    Anyway, I have lots more ideas and I'll be putting them out there!

    One of my company's largest catch phrases for the employees is:

    Change is Good
    Not everyone likes change; in fact most people hate it because they move out of their comfort zone. Well in the end it's better for the organization as a whole and we all reap those benefits whether we know it or not. People just have to be onboard and work with the changes.
     
  13. AirmidCecht

    AirmidCecht twitch.tv/airmid
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2004
    Messages:
    2,297
    Likes Received:
    486
    First psychology rule on that is not to use the term change.

    Evolve
    Transform
    Improve
    Modify
    Convert


    but never Change :D
     
  14. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,726
    Likes Received:
    286
    I know that Grimm and Mesanna are around in here. I would assume that the others at least check in. There are ways to get your ideas to them. I think the real big issues are just how many programmer hours they have to work with. I think an influx of players might help jostle loose some money from EA. That is what I have been focusing on lately. If we can increase the base then there should be more money to start doing things. I personally favor adding content (which I think attracts returning players) and fixing bugs and removing old issues (which I think makes things look better). The main reason that I say this is that at some point the next big change is going to have to be a client. I am currently forced to use the classic client because well my computer is a big POS that only works because I use every trick known to man (and some I flat had to invent) to get it to work. As soon as I can free up the money I plan on getting a new better computer. That being said the EC looks well it looks funny and its buggy. So the odds are that at some point the next big thing will have to be a client. That is going to take a lot of time to do. Before I think that kind of investment will be made we need to show there is life back in UO and we will need to keep up a steady drum beat for this. We also need to try and find some way to all come together on what the new client should have. Maybe it should have two view settings new enhanced and a more classic look that can run on older slower machines.
     
  15. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,271
    Likes Received:
    120
    Well in this case I say that something is better than nothing. My suggestion would give more reason to have a TC in the first place. If a certain item or feature that was placed in a TC server that the players gave a 40% "like" rating,would it be worth the Dev's time and effort to put it into the production shards? I think it would be worth their time if it meant more income for EA/Mythic and a happier player base.
     
  16. Capn Kranky

    Capn Kranky Guest

    Ummmm, wow! Just wow! What Grimm notes is my only gripe.

    In case no one has realized it I was T'Amon for a long time here. I have played UO since T2A was released. I have seen a lot of what is written happen and nothing done to stem the tide of players leaving because of one shafting or another. My accounts are closed with no intent to reopen them at this time.

    @RavenWinterHawk who might ask me the same question "if you no longer play, why are you here?" First off, there is a microscopic hope that EA will wake the hell up and do something to support the best damn game on the MMO market. That happens things can change quickly enough.

    Secondly, the community of players who devote so much time to helping new ones in-game and outside of it <points to Stratics and UOGuide as 2 examples>. Unfortunately as good as this group is, EA still has control.

    Do I need to say more? I'm still around ... watching and posting every so often.
     
  17. Salivern_Diago

    Salivern_Diago Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,112
    Likes Received:
    41
    I believe that its UO's uniqueness that keeps the majority of the players that are left now. I like alot of other players firmly believe that if EA actually spent a little effort and money on UO that it could easilly pull in alot of new players. If it wasnt for UO's epic features I would have passed on and left years ago. The apathy and disdain that is thrown at us at ever turn really speaks to me of a complete lack of care towards the game.

    If there is ever a MMOPRG that is simular to UO (skills/housing/play styles etc etc) then I would probably switch in the blink of an eye. I really dont like giving money to a company that dosnt care about me as a customer but I find myself currently stuck with no-other option. I hate to say it but I do believe UO's is dying, not becuase of the loss of players or to the state of the game market but becuase of EA's actions. UO was great once, it outmatched any other MMO on the market for years and it could again IF, just IF they spent some money and rebuilt the Development teams to a decent size. Hire in a Game Director, assign more Dev's to the team and add more artists to help out The GrimmOmen. They could also improve the customer service department by hiring dedicated UO GM's who actually know and care about the game.

    All this has been said over and over again the last few years and never does it get noticed or paid attention to. We are as always ignored becuase well.. sorry to say but NONE of us matter to EA (Or Mythic for that matter). EA prefers its sport titles (And the only reason the sports titles sales are so high is because the bundle it with so many consoles) mand Mythic would rather spend money on DaoC and Warhammer (Both of which are inferior products even with the amount of money and development spent on them).

    Am I angry? Hell yes, but I'm done with wasting my breath over this. If anyone important cared about UO then something would have been done years ago. All we have is a long list of broken promises and ignorance.

    "Cheers for playing UO and your loyal custom" Eh heh yeah alright.
     
  18. Izzy MBC

    Izzy MBC Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2003
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    42
    Nice post JC, I have also lean on UOGuide so many times for information, so thank you for the great Wiki.

    Sensical points there; can't argue really.

    I do think it is possible to save UO and bring it back to at least some of it's former Glory, but I believe the chances of it happening are absolutely thin. Mostly in part to the people further up the heirarchy, making the big boy decisions.

    I just can't believe the Developers wouldn't love this game themselves and lack a desire to better it - they presumably work on it 5 days a week - just they are trapped under asinine decisions from the top preventing a swift and truly epic overhaul to launch it forth.

    That's my guess, anyway. I'm a young whipper snapper, but I see plenty of it where I work already, and it's far from Software development. Guess it's just all about the £££ and they don't believe it's worth it, for whatever reason.
     
  19. AirmidCecht

    AirmidCecht twitch.tv/airmid
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2004
    Messages:
    2,297
    Likes Received:
    486
    @ Hunters Moon:

    (not gonna quote it)

    Exactly. People had either huge expectations or outright rejected the thought. Might not have used Improve there either but that's a topic for OT ;)
     
  20. There are so many ways to take UO. And because of that, it has been pulled every-which-way. The results taking it further away from its roots. This was done off of good intentions from the Devs and player base.


    Additions have been both good and bad but what was lost... was the sense of real danger, real risk, and real reward.


    The fact that I will soon be told there is Fel, Siege and blah blah blah is the exact reason the Developers tried to do what they thought was right.

    That had a great game. PvP. Order versus Chaos. Guilds. Housing. Vending. And true adventure with purpose of exploration. Rather then keep the heart of the systems and try to make it better without drastic changes like Trammel and insurance... they accidentially destroyed the heart.

    No one liked getting ganked or griefing but could it have been tamed down versus creating Trammel? Homes could have been guard zones for a fee or something. Why move the home completely to another facet?

    Did we really need to move characters from shard to shard? How did that help game play. It didn't, in anyway.

    Did we really need factions when we had Chaos vs Evil and guilds?

    Did we really need 6 kinds of resists when you use to just total up armour to 100?

    The heart of the game is gone and it is left in the souls of the community of players that remain.

    UO isn't done. It is different. It is too big, too complicated and too far gone from its roots. It won't ever die... it will only fade and become an occasional friend rather then how it use to be... an occassional stranger.
     
  21. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Messages:
    3,052
    Likes Received:
    632
    People try to bring their friends aboard... It usually ends in derisive laughter, or frustration on the part of the newb because the learning curve is nearly 90 degrees after 14 years. New Haven might as well not even be there for all the "help" it gives a new player. Hell the guided instruction is less then 10 mins long, then you get dumped into the world.

    Players shouldn't be saddled with the task of taking over for an NPE. It will never work, nobody will be willing to stand in New Haven 24/7/365 and pay for the privilage of hand-holding some random newb. It sounds all alturistic and utopian - and a few groups even try their hand at it - but it is ultimately unrealistic.

    14+ years of that has got us to where we are. The current leadership structure at Mythic seems incapable of a give-and-take relationship with it's subscribers. They would rather take our money and 'give back' substandard services in return. :(
     
  22. TheGrimmOmen

    TheGrimmOmen UO Legend
    VIP Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2004
    Messages:
    779
    Likes Received:
    303
    Not posting an opinion is not making one.

    I have a different opinion, and it's not something I'm interested on posting to Stratics, but I will say this about UO: It's still here when a LOT of MMOs that came after it are gone. It stays that way because of the people who dedicate themselves to it, devs and players alike.

    I'd hate to lose players like JC. But I don't have any plans on going anywhere.

    -Grimm
     
  23. curlybeard

    curlybeard Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    0
    JC will you be back for UO2: The Search for More Money?

    Edit: I wholeheartedly agree with Grimm above. UO is still here, must've done something right, alot of somethings. What in tech lasts 14+ years essentially unchanged? Sure a few modules were added and some mechanics tweaked, but the game is still recognizable as Ultima Online and still fun.
     
  24. Lightfoot

    Lightfoot Adventurer
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    29
    Oh please JC, we've heard all this before. Old player becomes bored and decides no one is having fun. I just want to say I have been playing for 13 years and have never had more fun than I'm having now.

    No expansions? Yay! We need bug fixes not new expansions. We need time to adapt to rule changes not new rules.

    I like your work, JC, I remember you from Nieves' UO Powergamers. But I think you and the doomsayers are projecting your own gloom onto others.

    Maybe you should try something new? It seems to me that a fertile mind can create all kinds of things to do in this sandbox. Maybe you are calling UO dead when it's just your imagination in a funk?

    The other day I found an amusing thing to pass the time. First I whipped up a spawn of unis and kirin at the Oaks spawn then another shepherd friend and I took 100 of them past healers grove, through the pass, past the moongate, through the woods til we got to... well I'll leave that to the adventurous.

    I think the point is that I can find something new everytime I log on.

    So I think it's time for this "Can I have your stuff?" ;)

    Lightfoot
     
  25. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,370
    Likes Received:
    720
    Sometimes going forward isnt the best way.

    Sometimes moving backwards isnt so great either.

    Little steps in all directions to test for solid ground would of been the safest bet.

    Instead of huge changes it should of been small improvements on the original game. There was so many possabilties they just ignored or never thought of.

    Lastly we should accept some of the blame ourselves because we took what they gave and didnt argue to much. We didnt try to "occupy" EA headquarters or do the right thing and quit paying for accounts to be heard. We paid, we took, we sat quielty mostly and played, we complained and they took, they gave, they stayed silent, and they lied and laughed at our expense in the end. We all are to blame. The players and EA.
     
  26. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,726
    Likes Received:
    286
    I have brought some new people on. I also make a point to try and help anyone that comes back. If we can do some small things then I think we can start putting pressure on EA to give it more attention. That being said if you really think its dead give it a RIP and move over. There are plenty of us that still want to work at it. I know for a fact that Mesanna cares about UO. If she didn't she would have left years ago. Plus every interaction I have ever had with her screams caring. We need to help our devs not constantly attack, but go after EA demanding to know how much money they are putting into UO. I am not saying that we should blindly be cheerleaders for the devs, but it would help if we tried to work constructively and hell get out the word for them. UO still has a lot going for it and is a lot of fun. There is a steep learning curve but with someone that knows what they are doing its not that bad brining in new people. All of us should set a goal of brining in or back one new player this year. Even if only half of us hit that it would still be a huge increase. We also need to try and get those we know that play but avoid the boards to come on here and put in their 2 cents. Getting the community to stand together even if only to say we want more of something would be a great start in having folks pay attention to us at EA.
     
  27. Ned888

    Ned888 Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    362
    Likes Received:
    0
    Grimm,

    I don't believe that anyone wants you to go anywhere.

    That being said, I don't know how much influence you have over the members on your team, but perhaps you could give them a kick in the butt and try to jump start some talking.

    This is the Official UO Message Board, but you are the only UO Official we ever see, excepting the short message from Messana every 2-3 weeks with a one liner contained therein....

    Get them to throw us a bone here. There's already a lot of damage done, but it won't be long before it's irreversable!
     
  28. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,154
    Likes Received:
    708
    When I see people talk about UO they generally say it is in a decline. My opinion is now that UO has no where else to decline to besides shut down. It is literally at the lowest point and can go no lower in terms of anything.
     
  29. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2001
    Messages:
    30,882
    Likes Received:
    5,165
    Me neither. We're not sunk yet

    [​IMG]
     
  30. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

    Joined:
    May 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,813
    Likes Received:
    2,329
    Everyone thought Draconi was the producer because, by and large, he was the one on the boards with us. No one heard of Cal till Draconi left LOL.
    And now that i mention it, we didnt hear a lot from him after Draconi.
    CatHat, Draconi, Grimm, Wilki, Leurocian, and quite a few others, we have had great communication with, but they are few and far between
     
  31. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,726
    Likes Received:
    286
    I think the fact that we are getting such a fast whirlwind of responces to this is a big sign that we are still above water. PS Petra where do you find gifs like that?
     
  32. Kojak

    Kojak Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,009
    Likes Received:
    690
    better not shut down - I'm not done decorating my castle yet
     
  33. Kayne

    Kayne Guest

    THIS...

    While the game has an official server I'll be here bailing the water out of the boat.

    On another note. Much kudos to Grimm for even being brave enough to post in this thread. I for one would be hugely interested in the opinion he wont give here but I know that is not a possiblity
     
  34. Ned888

    Ned888 Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    362
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, it's pretty obvious that the players care about what's going on.... Please don't force people to quit! I think they are starting to feel like Ozzy Osbourne throwing hams over a fence.... there's no response back!

    http://youtu.be/HgGcNXZTZvU
     
  35. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,086
    Likes Received:
    138
    Not trying to make a third party living off of Uo, Uo is still my most played game and will continue too be.

    :)
     
  36. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Stratics is a fraction of the playerbase, so you can't judge anything based on responses here. It also represents the extremes of the players, people who care enough to bother registering and posting, and people who are angry/disgruntled and are hostile towards UO.

    Hannes Erich (who stopped posted not long after this) understood that in a post he made on Stratics back in I think March:
    I said this in one of the other threads, but BioWare Mythic is run by a marketing and PR guy, Eugene Evans, and its clear that he does not care about UO, Camelot, and Warhammer, and his bosses do not care that much about the Mythic MMOs. His bosses have publicly stated that EA does not make decisions in regards to BioWare games, they do. If you put yourself in the shoes of a marketing person, you would question why UO and it's community relations are in the state they are, because it's a marketing disaster for new player.

    I bring up Camelot and Warhammer because it's quite obvious that when you look at all three games, they are all being ignored. The official Warhammer forums, and the unofficial Camelot forums both have their doom and gloom threads. Warhammer at least has Kai Schober, but those people are more panicked than we are, and probably rightfully so thanks to the arena game.

    I've tried to keep a positive outlook with the upcoming graphics update and understanding that Star Wars is probably sucking up much of BioWare's resources, but it's frustrating.
     
  37. Hellstorm

    Hellstorm Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    11
    Thanks JC, I use UO guide every day... I have played UO since 97, and come back less and less, and the breaks get longer and longer.

    Honestly the game needs to be started in again from scratch. New modern client, all new coding, remove all the useless skills, re balance all of the over powered skills and templates, get rid of botting programs all in one sweep. Remove the features that were a bad idea or damaged the game.

    Basically take the very best of UO and repackage it in a new bug free, modern client. Then have a turn in system, all of your skills, stats, scrolls used, account age, your house, pets, everything can be turned in. Gold however will have a capped amount to be turned in. Once you have cleared your account, you can log into the new version on a fresh new server, using a fresh client. Current UO players will get a 2 week head start as a reward, and everything turned in will be worth points that can be spent on perhaps ethy mounts, advanced character templates, or lottery tickets with a chance to win a prime housing spot.

    Then after two weeks, new players are welcome, and vet players can sign up as new player helpers.

    There would be no real need to add new areas, just overhaul and revamp old areas. Make it one house per account PERIOD, with nothing as large as a castle. Have instanced housing areas inside the cities, for those who simply want a house as storage, or to occasionally invite friends. remove lag inducing vendors, and set up a new magincia type market, or auction house. Simplify the new ship combat system... it is currently ridiculous and not worth the effort.

    Give everyone a lag free, bug free, fresh, beautiful start, with a moderate head start and rewards for vet players. Attract new players, and bring back old players, who cant wait to see the new Doom, or try the new orc race, or play the new Monk class, or craft a ballista or catapult, or just want to explore blackthorns castle again.

    just my 2 nickels..
     
  38. AdamD

    AdamD Guest

    I agree with your post, JC, especially the part about the clients.

    In all the money and time they spent creating the three 2.5D/enhanced/3d clients, they could've remade the age old 2D client to support higher resolutions AND made high resolution art and animations.

    Can you imagine how awesome UO would've looked if it had high res graphics, of the type seen/done by Saphireena (sp?)?

    There's a lot of stuff they could've done and haven't, which just adds to the negative aspect of UO, it's a shame though, because it's obvious that UO is attractive to many people, but it's just been left on life support for so long, people are now losing interest.
     
  39. Gorbs

    Gorbs Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2009
    Messages:
    633
    Likes Received:
    127
    I'm on the fence whether to agree or disagree. UO, if unchanged, has nowhere to go but down. They need to either find a way to get (more) new players into the game or convince ex-players to re-up at a faster pace than the current crop is cancelling accounts (or losing the ability to subscribe thanks to bungled account management transitions). We've thrown out ideas: f2p, classic shard, shard mergers, etc. They started to try booster packs, but apparently ran out of resources for development/testing or ideas. I'd like to see them give out tokens worth three months of free game time on a new account with every copy of the Star Wars MMO. I'd like to see them offer a bundled account where you got access to all games for one monthly fee. I'd like to see them offer a 12 month game time for new subscribers that would automatically increase their skillcap to the four year mark (yes, they would have to do something for existing subscribers too).
     
  40. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    824
    :thumbup1:

    JC, you say this isn't a doom and gloom thread, but with the title you given it and saying UO is at its lowest point seems a bit contradictory. UO has a new producer and while he hasn't said much at all yet I'd say the life of UO rests on this new persons shoulders. I am waiting to see his first moves for this game in anticipation, many of us are. A lot of MMOs have come and gone during UOs life and this game has met many road blocks and passed through. Just because you feel a lack of fun and excitement in this game doesn't mean it's at the bottom yet. A lot of people are still having fun.
     
  41. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    898
    Likes Received:
    575
    JC/Link speaks the truth. The guild he was in used to field 30+ people (i'm not talking about pvpers either just players in general)now it's lucky to field 2-3 at a time. Does that sound like HE decided no one is having fun? Sounds more like everyone else decided they're not having fun...

    -The guild i was in fielded 30 people in vent 4 years ago, dropped to 15 when SA came out and then vanished last year.
    -My friend's smaller guilds are no longer here.
    -One of the other largest guilds on Atlantic fields 2 active people now.

    If something isn't done we're only going to have those few dedicated people and those that will only reactivate every 90 days to save their virtual stuff.
     
  42. iamSnippa

    iamSnippa Journeyman

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2011
    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    8
    While I would absolutely hate to see the game go any lower, I do not think that the next stop on a decline for the game would be a complete shut down.
    I'll tell ya, and I've told many people this already... I was away from the game for 6 years, I played WoW, I played a couple other MMOs (one of which EA shut down before I came to UO in 2000), and I played console games... fact is, UO still is the best MMO out there.

    I believe UO could climb the hill again - how far up though I'm not sure.
    What UO needs is some attention in areas that it has needed for years, some of the things you mentioned as well as an advertising campaign.

    Right now the only people opening up new UO accounts are current players, former players, or family members of players I would assume. Why though? I don't believe most newer gamers really know much if anything about UO, and when people talk about the game outside of it, they speak of it as something that possibly no longer exists. This reminds me of a conversation I had with Sean (Day[9]) Plott (MLG Starcraft 2 caster) about Ultima Online, he spoke of the game as if it weren't even possible to play anymore - his memories of it were only from pre-ren or ren era (though he never actually played the game - a rl friend of his did and talked alot about it). People need to be made aware of the game (and that it's still around) and the things that you can do in it.

    I would have to say for sure though that some areas of the game do need to be fixed or enhanced, but most of those things have already been written about and discussed at great length in these forums.
     
  43. longshanks

    longshanks Guest

    very well put. While there are things I would like to see fixed, a faction revamp and making towns more lively being two off the top of my head, i do see the effort that this team puts forth. I thought the recent posiden fury event on chessy to be well done. i was generally pleased with the turn in event and the mannequins were something i thought needed for a long time.

    i dont make a living off uo. i pay my subscription and immerse myself in sosaria a few hours a nite as a way to unwind from rl. i'm in a guild with mature players and that to me is enjoyable. I've always been a classic retro guy anyway so UO suits me well. The sandbox aspect and being able to leave the game at a moments notice work too.

    I often wonder if this game would ever be spun out by EA. I wonder what UO is worth as a brand? Anyone ever take a crack at writing a novel about it? might be a way to get the game out more in the public eye.
     
  44. Kayne

    Kayne Guest

    I believe there are a few novels based around Ultima.

    Also wanted to quote your post due to the slight irony in you being named longshanks and this being about a sinking ship
     
  45. canary

    canary Guest

    Absolutely untrue.

    I have lost dozens (yes, there is a 's' on that word) of friends in game who left for many of the cited reasons. Just because they do not post on stratics does not mean they left for reasons not related to topics being brought up.

    It's boring, the dev team are lacking, the art stinks, content and communication reek, etc etc. Same thing I hear on here.

    What's wrong with being happy with what you have? Well, as a consumer, I should expect quality service. When you need a bicycle, I'll give you one. It may be rusted, the brakes no longer work and the chain is missing, but it is all yours. When you ask me if I'm going to get parts to actually make it work I'll ignore you. I'm sure you'll be delighted with what you have.
     
  46. eve

    eve Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    4
    So, what can we consumers/users do to make a difference?

    Suggestions as to positive things if possible.

    Instead of fighting with the system to keep my accounts active (which in itself is turning into a major effort), what steps can I take?

    Do we need a structure of some sort to find out what options are available to us? do we submit suggestions/ideas for improvements as a group?

    Can we as users make an impact?
     
  47. canary

    canary Guest

    In Japan iirc there were comics.

    We also had toys, obviously, at one point.

    Those days are indeed behind us. I think to push the game you really need to look at its core: the game itself. You can't really market it well (or realistically) looking like it does.
     
  48. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
    Professional Stratics Veteran Campaign Patron PITMUCK

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    5,836
    Likes Received:
    5,274
    I've been playing UO on and off since T2A. I've left a number of times, but the undisputed "magic" of this unique and often conflicted world always called me back. I've often thought that things started to go wrong after the advent of Trammel (however much I welcomed it at the time). If the world could be unified again, with reasonable restraints on PKing, which really did get out of hand in the past (perhaps some kind of consent could be required), I think UO could regain much of what it has lost, including former players. Anyway, I'm still sticking around with my one remaining account, always hopeful that something good will happen to revive interest in the game again, especially with the multitudes who have left.

    A closing thought. Although I realize the old, more personal Seer interaction disappeared a long time ago, it was a wonderful system that encouraged so much creativity among players and player towns, back in the day when players actually needed each other and tended to band together more. Perhaps our core problem is that we've all become too self-sufficient. Of course, with seven characters possible on each account, I suppose that was inevitable. :(
     
  49. Slickjack

    Slickjack Rares Fest Host | Cats Nov 2010
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,462
    Likes Received:
    65
    I appreciate the fact that someone can "still find some fun things to do" after playing such a long time i.e. herding the unicorns etc.

    BUT, there are also quite a huge number of players, including myself, that have played since the beginning (probaby the majority of the player base that is left, b/c we have TOO MUCH INVESTED TO LEAVE) that simply do not find those activities fun. I tend to agree with JC's point about revamping PVM. I remember my heart POUNDING when something was after me in this game... I DIDN'T WANT TO DIE!!!

    This was an absolute thrill. Now, when you die, "no big deal"... ho hum.

    And honestly, I can't remember the last time I died in PVM... (MAKE some of Mesanna's EM event monsters some of the standard bosses?)

    I won't even get into the PVP debate... the arenas will only be visited by the hackers/3rd party d-bags. I have no desire to step into a closed ring with people that cast 3 times faster and move 5 times faster. (and no, the small area DOES NOT take away their advantage)...

    I have 9 accounts. ONE is active. I keep waiting for a turn, but certainly I am losing hope.
     
  50. Blood Ghoul

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    290
    I am enjoying UO again. I started on day one (heck I remember trying to mine in minoc with 90% of the screen little "unused" boxes while you walked in a massive traffic jam trying to get the ore to the forge to smelt). I quit when EQ came out but came back 2 years ago after a long break of online gaming. I will stay in UO till the end since no other game interests me and is just a copy of something earlier with better graphics.

    The only advantage to UO going down is I will no longer have any online games to sink time into.

    I guess what I am saying is UO is tons of fun and if a little bit of life was injected into it the game could be great.

    BG
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.