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UO PVP is the best PVP

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Mervyn, Aug 11, 2011.

  1. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    UO is one of if not the best PVP experience in the world. Give us more things to fight over please.

    Not many people champ anymore as you can bind scrolls up from trammel or farm in the small hours of the morning when no one is on.

    I'd like slasher of veils or Medusa to be raidable in fel, or more EM events at peak time to fight over. Preferably the latter.
     
  2. Clog|Mordain

    Clog|Mordain Lore Master
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    QTF
     
  3. Klapauc

    Klapauc Sage
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    Seen you posting that in several threads now. There is no such thing like 110 scrolls at trammel champs. There are no scroll drops at tram champs.
     
  4. icm420

    icm420 Seasoned Veteran
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    You do have to agree he is right about UO pvp being the best of any game around. I mean even fps, which is basically all pvp, come up short against uo. Darkfall is more pvp orientated then UO so mayb you should check that out man... it's made my a lot of the original origin team who made uo. I still think uo is better, but the archery system in darkfall is worth downloading the trial. If only UO archers had to actually aim! Anyway man it seems to me you need a shard change.
     
  5. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    I think the key word mentioned was "bind" - I believe they were talking about how people can buy the cheap smaller scrolls from vendors and use a binder to turn them into larger scrolls without leaving Tram, implying no risk or great expense.
     
  6. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    If you remove the cheating and broken skills and ****... Sure I guess
     
  7. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    Indeed!
    That's just daft reasoning there. People champ all the time. Move to another server if you are board with noone coming out to play with you.
    Why? You think there is a reason to raid a Medusa or Slasher? Do people need less reason to do those? They barely do them in the safety of trammel as it is. EM events are another can of worms entirely. Best to look elsewhere for you fun.

    Merv, I see what you want but you are going to actually need to come up with an actual idea of new PvP content and not just put words together in a lump and expecting something to come out of it. :loser:
     
  8. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    People do Slasher and Medusa, otherwise where do the lavalieres and slithers come from? It's not like there's a uo employee who creates them and sells them on real money sites :p

    It would take 2 seconds to just plonk the medusa and slasher in fel.
     
  9. Klapauc

    Klapauc Sage
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    And what is the reason to do them in fel if they would be there? Next to nobody would go for them. Btw there are already shards where you can do both under fel ruleset, ok medusa doesnt count because its instanced.
     
  10. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    They would obviously not be in both tram and fel, just fel, and make medusa not instanced.
     
  11. Klapauc

    Klapauc Sage
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    So you can earn the cheap rewards for yourself without working for them? As you always do?
    Me thinks you should stop making posts about improving the game for yourself and your playstyle only.
     
  12. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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  13. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    It's all a ridiculous notion anyway. The problem with this particular carrot is the lack of guarantee. A champ spawn gives a set number of scrolls. While they might not be good ones there are enough to give reason to do it. As it is there is no such guarantee and the spawns(Medusa/etc) would only server to take up space and occasionally a scout would look to see if one would do them.

    Bad idea. Need better ideas to get people to fel. PvM ideas to PvP suck.
     
  14. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    Hey, because you die to me and my guild who work hard to gather information about champs being done, who work hard to get the best out of all the programs. You think you work harder than hardcore pvpers? At the end of a night my boys are exhausted.

    When you die to a dragon do you get your head chewed off and have every single tactical move analysed and critised by your peers? I think not.

    I'm not saying i want random carbears to have to come to fel to do slasher and medusa, I'd still do them.

    Lets take tonight, i do medusa all the time, usually takes abuot 15 mins, i popped a harrower on europa, if no one raided, we could've done it in say 30 mins, we fought for hours and hours for it and the +25s were split between 3 guilds who fought hard for it. Learn the meaning of hard work before you critisise other's play style because you're not skilled enough to play at that level.
     
  15. Vlaude

    Vlaude Lore Keeper
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    I absolutely agree with this thread. As MMORPGs go (and I've played a few of them now) UO PvP has always been my favorite. I've had several ideas for how it could be improved in terms of "things to fight over" for a long time now but typing them all out has never really seemed worth the time, which is a shame :(
     
  16. Triberius

    Triberius Firefall Moderator | LotRO Moderator
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    That's debatable.

    If UO's PvP model was so great, why hasn't other games adopted it? I'm not here to troll or anything but just to ask seriously, how is UO's PvP so great if you constantly need crutches added to make it more interesting?

    How about instead of crutches they work on ways to introduce players to PvP so you have more folks to fight with. How come half the ideas for ways to boost PvP involve working around a PvM based system? You call beating up on a group of Trammies PvP? That's like you going out and decking a 6 year old, they simply aren't prepared and equipped to fight back.

    They could find ways to encourage PvP it's possible, access to special gear, mounts, etc. that's open for everyone not just factions. But before they can do anything the PvP community needs to man up a bit. To start with you guys would have cut out some of the trash talk, no one wants to get their rear end handed to them only to listen to you make references to what you plan to do later involving their mother, and a barnyard animal. It's crude, childish and something many people want to avoid, and heavens forbid you get spanked you have to hear endless profanity filled rants on how so and so cheats or they suck or used cheap tactics etc.

    I hear players here continually talking about how "great" UO's community is. I disagree, out of the half a dozen MMO's I've invested any serious time in, UO has one of the worst in game communities I've seen. Not the Worst, but the amount of obscenities, perversion and rudeness that goes on daily in the various chat channels is something that never should have been tolerated, it was bad enough when you just had to deal with it on screen but now well needless to say the Iggy list isn't long enough. Sure there are a few diamonds in the rough, and a few groups that go out of their way to help other players, but this negative behavior which seems dominate in the PvP community sours more people than you can believe towards the prospects of interacting on that level.
     
  17. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    I agree with the above 100%

    As a UO vet of 11 years, of which i have PvPed the last 6 years. Handed back Mervs ass to him on many occasion, and had the same done back to me just as much.

    Merv PvP on Europa is just not fun anymore. Way too much poo poo talk. I have not logged in for 5 weeks now, closed one of my two accounts, and im now looking to close my main account.

    UO PvP may be one of the best MMO PvP systems out there, but its now only the dregs of society who play it.

    A good example is your team mates who take pleasure in making fun of my wife with cancer via General chat. That's not PvP merv! Its trash talking of the lowest kind, but yet you wonder why people don't want to play with you.
     
  18. Noti(Caci)

    Noti(Caci) Guest

    For me the pvp in uo is the best of all other mmos.
    The reson is its fast.Pvp and pvm are close enough to play them both in felucca for pvp and trammel for pvm that means both are balanced.
    The conmunity is every helpfull because if you stand at the new haven bank
    as a young everyone wants to help you.
    This friendlyness refers for the atlantic shard because im playing there.
    But im sure other shards are friendly to new players too.
    In know for instance Drachenfelsshard obvously its a bit emty now help alot new player too.
     
  19. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    A lot of WOW was based on uo, where in my posts have i stated that i want more newbies to come out and fight? I'm simply asking for something to fight over, Pros or newbies, and it's pretty easy to get high end gear in this game really cheaply with imbuing and faction artifacts. As for people trash talking... thats just a sign of how emotional and hyped up people get.
     
  20. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    While I think UO's PVP is good, I don't think it's as good as EVE Online's PVP, but then again, EVE Online was designed from start to finish to be a PvP game.

    There is a famous quote from an EVE developer: "EVE is not designed to look like a cold, dark, unforgiving world. It's designed to BE a cold, dark, unforgiving world".

    You asked why other games haven't adopted UO's PvP, well EVE Online has adopted UO's PvP - EVE's developers looked to early UO as one of the major models for their PvP.

    Only when UO went to things like insurance which removed the risk from PvP, EVE avoided that. You can be dry looted and lose everything in EVE. That's why so many of the early and very serious UO PvPers and PKers moved on to EVE.

    That's the way I see it, but I'd go further and remove insurance, but at the same time increase the incentive - provide rewards for actual PvP. Right now, as long as there is insurance and with the current Factions system, there's just not that much there.
     
  21. Noti(Caci)

    Noti(Caci) Guest

    I have to say i play UO pvp and EVe pvp.
    One account in uo and 2 accounts in eve.
    I like both pvp.UO is fast pvp and eve is more with more time pvp.
    This is right eve pvp is similar like uo erlier because you loose alot into pvp in eve and you get looted all.
    I see similirity in uo and eve.
    In uo pks have red names.In eve pks have red names too.
    In uo you have felucca the lowland.IN eve you have lowland pvp too.
    In uo you have insurance.In eve you have insurance too but you loose more.
    But in eve singel pvp is more difficult.The most do in eve pvp as groupgang pvp.In uo more do singel pvp.I do both singel pvp in uo and in eve.
    I like both game alot and they are enoguh for me to have alot pvp fun.
     
  22. maximusss

    maximusss Guest

    Wrong, you make it sound like Blizzard looked in awe how great uo was and wanted to create a game like uo. Instead, Blizzard has stated they learned from the mistakes done by earlier MMOs and started creating WoW from those lessons. Blizzard knew PvP needs to meet the esport requirements to please the loud elite minority, and masses want carebear PvM and ability to compete in PvP when they wish. When UO was being developed, devs at that time had no idea what would be good for a commercially succesful mmo and what not, thus came what uo was back then, and the core of uo back then wasnt obviously good since we havent seen any commercially succesfull MMOs that resemble pre AOS uo in any way. As good as UO is, it's nowdays light years behind from many aspects of WOW. Though the blame here is on EA, since much money to develop uo hasnt been pouring in for many years.
     
  23. Noti(Caci)

    Noti(Caci) Guest

    EA has to put more money into uo and not 300 milion in Star Wars Oldrepublic.
    What uo needs is a grafics client isometricfev but if you soom into the character you
    can soom in real 3D.
     
  24. Korik Bloodguard

    Korik Bloodguard Lore Keeper
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    I agree with the OP.
     
  25. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Proportionally, UO has the most children (or at least, immature dumbasses) out of any game I've played. Not just MMOs. I don't even use the global chat system anymore because it's just the same crap over and over. I haven't tried other shards, but GL is awful.
     
  26. Klapauc

    Klapauc Sage
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    Elitist thinking.
    My reason to not pvp has nothing to do with skill, it has something to do with a certain amount of people and their childish and brainless behavior on europa fel.
     
  27. Triberius

    Triberius Firefall Moderator | LotRO Moderator
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    You just aren't getting what I'm trying to say are you..

    My point is Why do you need something to fight over? If PvP is what you like to do why aren't you doing it simply because you like it and not have this illogical need for something to "fight over".

    PvP should encourage PvP on it's own merit and reward players based on it's own merit, not require some PvM based system or a system of rewards that can be exploited for PvM. Both faction Arties, and Spawns have become a crutch for many of the PvPers in UO.

    High end gear being accessible has nothing to do with PvP, you could man a Tank with a group of preschoolers but that doesn't mean they'd know what to do with it, the same holds true for PvP in UO. Just because everyone has access to the same gear, templates etc. doesn't mean they know how to use them. Instead UO's PvP would be better off moving away from the carrots and towards in game systems that encourage people to learn how to PvP and engage in it without being thrown to the wolves. And more importantly the PvP community needs to keep their enthusiasm but curb the negative ways of expressing it that turns so many people off if they want to see more people express interest in PvP.

    The idea of just being tossed into PvP never worked for the bulk of players, and the results are very apparent. You got 1 facet for PvP and 5 for everything else, and constant demands for crutches for the PvP community to lean on to keep things interesting. UO needs to look at some big changes if it plans to be around another decade or even to just draw new players and those changes have to happen in both how we look at the PvM side and the PvP side. Continuing down the same paths we've followed for over a decade will yield the same results, an increasingly diminishing player base.
     
  28. Triberius

    Triberius Firefall Moderator | LotRO Moderator
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    Unfortunately I disagree with this a bit. I feel that they didn't go far enough with the introduction of Insurance into Felucca.

    PvP in my opinion should yield no "risk" what so ever. Instead a floating point system should be used for everyone that PvP's in Felucca. 10 points max for a kill, divided among the top 10 damage dealers in a fight, the person who dies loses 5 points each death but can't fall below 0. Points can be redeemed with a NPC for Power-scrolls, Arties, Runics or what ever. This allows everyone access to everything and alternative methods to gain anything a player wants. PvP can have rewards for simply engaging in PvP, it's just a matter of putting in systems that work.

    Example how this would work out.

    3 players try to gank a single person. The Solo player manages to kill 1 of the three, he gets 10 points, but looses 5 for dying for a net of 5 points. The one attacker looses 5 points but gains 2 back for damage he dealt for negative 3 on his total for this one fight. The surviving people get 5 points for the top damage dealer and 3 points for the next highest.

    Say that top damage dealer gets his 5 points and it brings him to total of 3000, he can go redeem those 3000 points for a Lavaliere, or split them between various items and scrolls bringing his total back down possibly to 0 once again.


    PvP becomes a self-sufficient system no need to have millions of gold to get the best gear just fight. No need for PvM systems to provide gear, just fight. No Risk of Loss at all, you are fighting just to fight, and earn better equipment and items through a points system that you can use yourself, for your other characters or sale. Which btw would increase supply on the market deflating prices a bit.
     
  29. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    No, my attention span isn't that long,

    Someone pass me the footnotes
     
  30. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    You don't say...

    :pie:
     
  31. Klapauc

    Klapauc Sage
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    No need to comment that.
     
  32. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Whats to stop me and my friends or guild from gaming the system using our alts as convenient PvP fodder for each other?
     
  33. Triberius

    Triberius Firefall Moderator | LotRO Moderator
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    What would it matter, points would be currency not just for bragging rights. Plus on the upside if you farmed for stuff to sell, you'd be doing the economy of the game a net benefit as prices would drop dramatically. There would be little difference in you gaming a system like that, and a PvM player farming high end mobs for gold.
     
  34. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    While I normally wouldn't agree with Mervyn, I believe that he was not necessarily talking about Ultima Online.

    You see, there was a game started in 1999 and then canceled in 2001.

    It featured:

    A steampunk setting in areas, with magical areas elsewhere.

    A 3D engine.

    PvP would be voluntary and disabled by default except in certain areas or unless the player allowed it.

    A major focus on grouping players together, including 20-40 players.

    Difficult for a player to become very powerful without grouping with other players at some point.

    Now World of Warcraft was started around 1999 or shortly before, however it obviously wasn't canceled in 2001.

    Ultima Online 2, or Ultima Worlds Origin was started in 1999 and canceled in 2001, and featured all of the above.

    Now I'm not going to say that World of Warcraft stole anything from UO2, after all other MMOs had those features at the time or close it it, a few years before Warcraft rolled out, and I'm sure one of the major MMOs around 1999-2001 had a steampunk setting like UO2 and Warcraft, but it's funny how all of it ended up in Warcraft. Then again, plenty of UO and UO2 devs ended up working for Warcraft and other MMOs :(
     
  35. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Although some would argue whether this is PvP or not, UO is certainly no stranger to scams, and arguably inspired many scammers. I consider it to be a part of PvP since it is player versus players.

    I've got two friends who got caught up in this scam and lost quite a bit, and they were early UO players and both said they should have known better :lol:

    One of the Biggest Scams in Eve History – Ponzi Scheme Empties Over 1 Trillion Isk From Player’s Wallets.

    I need to go looking through UOGuide or some old Stratics posts to find some of the early UO scams, there were some really funny ones.
     
  36. maximusss

    maximusss Guest

    He stated UO so the only logical solution is that he was talking bout UO.

    Considering the state UO2 reached in it's development(not even alpha stage so most code and design were not even done), its a bad idea to even have WoW and UO2 in the same phrase. Not to mention the fact those 'cool features' you listed were things both Wow and UO2 devs knew based on the player feedback and success of earlier mmos. And in general this whole 'stealing ideas from other video games' is so stupid..

    Hah WOW steampunk ?
     
  37. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    You haven't played WOW in the past few years, have you?
     
  38. Another Lamer

    Another Lamer Journeyman
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    More to the question if its that bad why do players keep returning? UO PvP has always been the best; yes its changed over the years some parts ahve made it better, others worse.



    Back in the day a PK was actually a profession. Reds never attacked reds, one main target were miners etc (lots of goodies) and of course there was no insurance on items, take everything including a head. Its a shame more people don't try and pvp.....far more exciting than killing a npc monster.



    Agreed; years ago it went as far as calling people 'noobie' and that kind of harmless banter. Everything used to be monitored and there was a 0 tolerance - people would get banned within several minutes of saying something that would be considered offensive. These days there is not enough of a GM presence; its not even difficult to monitor now due to general chat.

    UO in my opinion is still the best mmo out there; it lacks the investment these day but still has a great following - may it continue.
     
  39. Noti(Caci)

    Noti(Caci) Guest

    Uo needs a the 2D client and a new 3D client wich you can soom into your char in real 3D in and out into ismometric few.
    Then you need to be in Usa and Europa and Asia Japan Korea again
    into the stores as a box.
    The development of the pvp in uo is soon 14 years.Its alot development expariance.
    On the sales box must be advertised that uo got an award as longest running online game.
     
  40. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Movement would be screwy if you had a 2D and a true 3D client working side by side - you'd have to put technical limitations on a true 3D client and you might have server issues since the server code would need to be rewritten to handle true 3D.

    As for boxes, EA is trying to get away from that. They make a lot more money if they can cut out the retailers and get you to buy it through Origin.com. That's partly why the only digital copy of Star Wars: The Old Republic that you can buy will be only through Origin.com - they aren't going to offer it through Amazon.com or Steam. This is coming to consoles as well. As more people get broadband, the gaming companies are going to do everything they can to sell directly to us.