1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

UO - Too much based on items?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by hawkeye_pike, Jan 9, 2009.

  1. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,466
    Likes Received:
    11
    I've been playing UO since its release in 1998. I made a long break from 2002 and 2007. After my return, I noticed how much the game had changed. First, I first want to say that many many changes have been a great enhancement of UO, and increased the breadth and the diversity of UO. So, I do not want "the good old days" back!

    However, one thing has destroyed a lot of the gaming experience, to my opinion. And that's the artifacts, rare uber-items and insurance. Let me explain, why:

    • When I returned, I was looking for fellow adventurers in vain. Nobody cared about visiting a dungeon, working yourself from top to bottom level, or exploring the landmasses. All people did, was recalling to a handful of hotspots (preferably Melisande and Doom Gauntlet) to get an artifact. I've seen groups doing the Melisande quest 15 times in a row in order to get an artifact.
    • The way people were playing seemed a lot more boring than it was back in 2001. Back then, people were playing for adventure, community, PvP. Today, most people are playing for items. This has changed the character of the game immensely, and not for the better.
    • Also, in order to explore the new content (paragon, peerless, new dungeons, events), you NEED those rare uber items. And the items you need cost millions and millions of gold. A halfway decent equipment is worth at least 20 millions. And this stuff won't even be good enough for PvP. Back in 2001, you could buy a very good suit and weapon for less than 10,000 gold.
    • For those who have such items (which are 99% of the players), about 90% of the game content gets boring, because it isn't challenging anymore. Those who don't use such items (1% of the players) will end up alone.
    • Of course, if your equipment is worth 20 million, you don't want to lose it. That's why insurance is needed. Back in 2001, when you lost your whole stuff to a PK, you were annoyed, but then you'd contact the dedicated smith or tailor in your guild, and he'd supply you with new items. Death had a consequence! And crafters were needed.
    • Insurance made classic thieves and murderers obsolete. Today, murderers don't fight to loot you and sell your items, but to prove their equipment is more uber than yours. Thieves have nothing to steal from players anymore. They now schedule their weekly or monthly dungeon trip to get the rare stealable artifacts from Doom.

    While artifacts and rare items surely are a nice enhancement to the game, they have some serious disadvantages:

    • They have become too important, even vital, for decent gameplay.
    • They require very bad makeshifts, like insurance and PoF.
    • They destroy the profession of a crafter.
    • They make people addicted, and make people focus more on items than on other players.
    • They penalize players who focus more on community and adventure.
    • They unbalance PvP. (PvP today is only for the rich players.)
    • They encourage duping, they unbalance the economy.

    I thought about a solution for a very long time. I am aware that you cannot just remove those items from the game, as people have spent a lot of time and effort to get those. My suggestion would be:

    • Make rare items much less rare, and better available for EVERY player. More precisely:
    • Abolish runic crafting (it is an annoying, unimaginative and boring!)
    • Make ALL artifacts craftable. High-end arties should require legendary skill and special ingredients. Allow only rare exceptions (like earrings, talismans, shoes, jewelry, sashes as event rewards), and make sure those exceptions are useful but not too powerful.
    • To make crafting a more challenging and interesting, make it more random (to avoid ingredient farming) and more adventure-like. (As an example, see the quotes of previous postings below, referring to new craftables.)
    • Limit insurance to 5 insured items per character. As all items can be crafted now, they can be replaced with not too insane an effort. You still could insure your favorite weapon and talisman.

    I could also imagine ways of making Trammel less "care-bear-like". (For example: Make bone corpses lootable. Make looters attackable. Resurrect the profession of the detective, who can identify persons who looted corpses, which would have consequences for the looter. Etc. etc.)

    I think, the focus on items is bad for the game. I think that UO would improve a lot if items were less important. What do you think?

    - - - - - - - -


     
  2. DuttyD

    DuttyD Guest

    I agree....
    But it appears to me that they might be trying to become a little less item dependent.
    High doom arty drops.
    Replicas
    Imbuing coming along with Stygian Abyss.
     
  3. Dalton4902

    Dalton4902 Guest

    I fully agree, Hawkeye, as I have with your other posts. I don't think they should abolish runics, though. Just make the kits and hammers much much easier to obtain. Plus, you said yourself, you can't very well remove a bunch of items from the game, and abolishing runics would do just that.
     
  4. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    I really like the quotes from another post...the idea of bringin little min-quests, that maybe have little or no reward but are extremely challenging would be fun!!
     
  5. Dalton4902

    Dalton4902 Guest

    You can't very well put in a quest with no rewards, especially a hard one. What would be the point in doing it? You always have to have something you are working for, otherwise, there's just no point.
     
  6. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    well this is where you and i disagree...

    I enjoy just having something to do, after about a year back i have pretty much everything i need(being able to solo or 2man every peerless(bad move on devs part there)) and i get Bored so some quest that is hard would be fun to me!

    Ive even gone round and done all the old pointless quests like the finding the voids!
     
  7. Mistura

    Mistura Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    Messages:
    838
    Likes Received:
    0
    I totally agree with much of what you've said Hawkeye, BUT, i think its gone past the stage where UO will be anything more than an item based game.

    So true and it should not be the case!
     
  8. /signed


    UO <> Diablo!!!
     
  9. The large part of the fun of playing UO was hunting for the items ( Vanq weapons :D ).. Sadly miss those days..
     
  10. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,657
    Likes Received:
    9
    Abolish runic crafting (it is an annoying, unimaginative and boring!)
    Imbuing will provide an alternative route to building items. There is no need to remove systems when adding new ones.

    Make ALL artifacts craftable. High-end arties should require legendary skill and special ingredients. Allow only rare exceptions (like earrings, talismans, shoes, jewelry, sashes as event rewards), and make sure those exceptions are useful but not too powerful.
    Again, I think there is room for a lot variety and variation, although I agree that the top tier of items should be craftables.

    To make crafting a more challenging and interesting, make it more random (to avoid ingredient farming) and more adventure-like.
    The essential ingredient of crafting is time - if there is to be any diversity between high-end and low-end items, it needs to take time to avoid items flooding the market. Currently, that's handled through grinds to get tools and ingredients. No matter how random you make it, someone who wants to be a crafter will need to grind through the randomness to.

    Limit insurance to 5 insured items per character. As all items can be crafted now, they can be replaced with not too insane an effort. You still could insure your favorite weapon and talisman.
    This is going to lead to a debate between solo vs team play. Loners are already heavily disadvantaged trying to recover from a mistake, bad luck or a client crash. Reducing insurance just exaggerates that.

    I could also imagine ways of making Trammel less "care-bear-like". (For example: Make bone corpses lootable. Make looters attackable.

    I struggle to understand how this would help ... it seems to go in the wrong direction, just adding a PvP aspect to Tram, where most players do not want to PvP. Surely this would simply drive people like me from the game? (I realize some may think that would be a good thing, but I leave that question to the bean counters to decide)
     
  11. DevilsOwn

    DevilsOwn Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2003
    Messages:
    8,922
    Likes Received:
    379

    for some, me included, it's not the destination, it's the journey
     
  12. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,466
    Likes Received:
    11
    The point is, that most people in Trammel do not want PvP like it is today. However, a game completely without risk may be boring. I know that this is hard to understand for people who haven't experienced the times before the split. The only "threat" in Trammel are monsters with very predictable AI. There is nothing unexpected, nothing random. Everything can be planned and avoided. If you know only Trammel, all my suggestions may seem like an offense to you.

    However, I can tell you that (despite the bugs, the lags, the griefing) back in the Early Days, if you left the town, you were aware of a potential risk, and this added A LOT to the over all gaming experience. There was much more tension and excitement in the game. You still had the choice to avoid places where PKS were known to hang out.

    I do not want the PK world back like it was in the Early Days! It also had many flaws, too many people were grieved. However, I'd like a system where evil players exist, where there's a (small) risk when you leave town, but where also being a PK has more consequences. Just splitting the world into Trammel and Felucca is the most unimaginative solution.

    A long time ago, I made some suggestions, which were directing towards more realism. For example, the risk you take depends on the daytime (more risky at night), or on the places you visit (main roads are more safe). Detectives should be rewarded for examining a crime scene. If a detective finds out who the murderer was, it should have consequences for the murderer. This and more...

    All this would make PvP not a mindless ganking system, like it is today, but a more complex and realistic system of interaction between good and evil.

    That's what I dream of.
     
  13. Ceridwen

    Ceridwen Guest

    Um, no you don't. All you need for many peerless is a simple lower reagent cost suit, or a halfway decent bow (meaning SwingSpeedIncrease and Damage Increase). Either that or a tamer with a simple lower reagent cost suit. Build up the suit as you go along.
    My tamer (which I use for most peerless) started with a simple lrc suit, then started adding luck when she could. No uber-mods, no special resist, just luck and lrc.
    That's it.
    If you know how to play a template right, you don't need any uber-armour for PvM.

    Now PvP... there you've got a very valid point. *signs*