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UO Warning Long

Discussion in 'UO Spiels N Rants' started by DENNAR, Nov 15, 2008.

  1. DENNAR

    DENNAR Journeyman
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    I have been completely gone from UO for over six months now. But I wasn't really playing for over a year. I would just like to share what UO was to me and thoughts I have on what made it great and what could have been to make it even better.

    First let me say UO is the greatest game ever created. What other game has captured people's attention for hours at a time for years at a time?

    I decided to play UO because of what I saw. You could be anything you wanted and you could change what you selected and become something else. You could have a pet and you could own a home. But I think some things in UO lost their way and some things, if done differently might have made UO even better.

    I think making two different rulesets was a mistake. It seperated the player base and started turning player against player. It meant Development time had to be shared working just on the facet side of things. I think they could have make a few changes and kept players happy. I know rampant PK's were causing trouble and something had to be done. But those PK's also were the foundation for many anti-pk groups. There was talk that they were considering in having an area around a house a guard zone. Players would pay a tax to have a guard patrol the perimiter of their house. There was also discussion of having public houses have guards as well which would also prevent thieves from working public houses and getting buyers and merchants items. Imagine UO if instead of programming two facets we got developement time in making the world even bigger with more variety?

    I think recall was and is way over powered it should be eliminated. The moongate system we have today would be perfect if you added the ability to recall to your home. This would mean you would actually have to travel overland to go places. Yes you could get close to a town or dungeon but you would have to walk some of the way. Depending on where you were going some travel would be in guard zones some would not.

    Also imagine patrols of guards alongs the roads. Actually patrolling. Now PK's are a problem and there should be a penalty for being a pk. Imagine a PK who would also have to travel the roads were sighted by a guard patrol. There would be no escape. The guards will catch them. Depending on the PK's murder count, the punishment would be extracted. Punishment could be being placed in stocks in a Town for a period of time, they could be killed with a timer set before they could rez, as well as an amount of gold removed from thier bank to post bail. Several different ideas come to mind. Actuall consequenses for being a murderer. Same type of things could have been done about thieves. I do think thieves were to much of a grief tool. There should have been a rule that no stealing from players within a certain range of a bank, or in public houses.

    Mounts were a great concept in UO. But we got away from the feel of UO over the years with neon mounts and mounts that just dont fit. I think we should have had horse drawn carts, Horses, pack animals, camels, hell hounds, even nightmares. But bugs and neons should have stayed out. Pets should have stayed more realistic to the feel of UO as well. You should actually have to care for your mount or pet. Bonding is great for Rez but feeding should be needed. Stabling should have a cost representative of the mount. A Dragon should cost ALOT more to stable than a horse.

    Housing in UO is fantastic. But it should have meant more. The ability to place houses anywhere was a mistake and so was customizable housing. Plots should have been needed for placement. The size of the house you own should have had meaning. Taxes on houses should have been implemented. The larger the houses the larger the cost to maintain it and keep it. Interior of homes should have been customizable NOT exteriors. There should have been 50 choices for the exterior--not all availible in every area. The ability to move walls etc inside and color the walls should have been the limit to customization. Houses should have been able to be linked to become villages. With options of walls or fences around the town--guards patrolling the town--special deco items availible AT A COST to the town funds. A town fund would have to be established. Countless ideas come from this concept.

    Eating in UO should have meant something. How could a brave warrior take on a dungeon on an empty stomach?

    Loot should have been skill based. A player with no skills over 70 should find loot on a mongbat but a GM should not. Players killing the same monster after 1000 times should get no loot from it.

    There should have never been Lower reg suits.

    Dungeons should be random. You should never know what you are going to find where in a dungeon. Once you have done a dungeon what else is there to do except farm it? Imagine a dungeon where the layout changes Daily? Imagine wandering monsters that wander the entire dungeon not just in a small circle. There should be different levels of some beasts. Like dragons, there should be dragons a player can solo and some you need a group to do. Rewards should be appropriate. There should be no push thru. Night sight should be toned down so you only see in you immediate area. Seeing the whole layout ahead of you leaves no surprise.

    If you are going to have crafting in the game it should mean something. It should be hard to achieve and it should be worthwhile to the game. Having uber things better than crafted items means crafting is useless. Crafting should not be in lieu of, it should be in addition to. This means you can be a warrior and a blacksmith. But it will take you longer in each to be good at it. There should also be no insurance. You die you lose your stuff unless you can rez and get back to it.

    There should be random overland spawn, like town invasions going on all the time. And if you help defend a town against the spawn you get town credits. The rewards could be anything from armor and weapons to deco pieces.

    UO is about community and discovery. Friends working and playing together from all over the world, some who never meet IRL and others that are neighbors. Discovery of something never seen before or tried. Keeping fresh content. I still think UO is great, but where it has gone still leaves me not playing. The cheats that are ignored for so long, the exploits not fixed until too much damage has been done have made me no longer want to play.

    I hope I did not bore any readers. I wish others would share thier ideas and maybe someone at Mythic could read and spend some time thinking of what was posted by people.
     
  2. ZippyTwitch

    ZippyTwitch Lore Keeper
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    This is a very good post. I agree with almost everything. Except for the loot part. If anything a gm warrior should beable to find more loot on a corpse than someone with less experience in the field.
     
  3. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    Okay Dennar. Bye Dennar.
     
  4. Nine Dark Moons

    Nine Dark Moons Certifiable
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    That's a great post with lots of great ideas. It is too bad it got moved to SnR. Thanks Dennar. Sorry you don't play anymore. Too bad UO didn't go the route some of your ideas would have taken it.
     
  5. As I recall, the options under discussion were not palatable to many - predominently a switch. There was one suggestion in the then Ideas Den that actually had merit and was highly acceptable to many - but it was not enacted. <shrug>

    I like that Yew, Minoc/Vesper, Trinsic and to some extent Brit gates are well outside of the town borders. I do take them quite often and simply ride my horse to where I need to be. I'm not sure on nerfing recall or gate or sacred journey all that much - which you KNOW some will call changing it's behavior.

    I thought the late, great stat loss was supposed to be some forom of criminal punishment as well as the count reduction times? When statloss was removed it went to "H" in a handbasket IMO.

    It actually did at one time! Honest! Although one could not die of starvation it had direct impact on fighting ability, regen rates and more.

    While there is merit in this, I'm thinking the actual implementation might be pretty tough. I'd settle for GM+ fighter to hit targets more often than they do now.

    Okay ... also the Diablo-esque display of properties should never have happened either.

    Crafters got nailed as soome as mods were to be seen (AOS) and Artifacts introduced to the extent they are now. Insurance ... agreed. I'd like to see it go as well.

    Overland spawns - AMEN! I want them back - more than ever before! A random Dragon or whatever would be a nice surprise and welcome break from the everyday stuff.

    Good luck to you ...
     
  6. I disagree with this. What hurt UO more than anything was Publish 16 and then Age of Shadows. There was still a ton of player interaction up until then.

    We still had the bounty system and Chaos/Order that drew people into PvP.

    We still relied upon crafters for weapons, armor, repairs, furniture, and just about everything else you can craft.

    We still relied upon mules that provided all of the basic materials for the crafters.


    Now look at what we have.

    With items you can increase any skill immediately to the point that you don't need anyone else for anything.

    Soul Stones are nice, but now you can stone any skill and then immediately use another that you have stoned.

    You can go to any NPC shop and buy up almost anything you need in game in massive quantities. The items you do need you just go buy off of a vendor in Luna without ever having to interact with anyone.

    There is no need to look for a smith, carpenter, tinker, or fletcher because you can just buy repair deeds.

    I can go on and on about all the ways that there is absolutely NO interaction required between the citizens of Britannia.


    These are what have hurt UO as far as player interaction are concerned.
    If it wasn't for the addition of Tram, UO would have died quickly. Tram actually sucked in a lot more players.


    As much as I enjoy a lot of these conveniences, I would much rather that some of the negatives, listed above, were taken back out of the game.

    Just to add another point. I think the lack of player interaction has actually created a rift between players. You can see it when you go to hunting areas, or the invasions right now. Players are rude to each other, attack things that are already under attack, and greedily fight for pennies and pixel crack. UO has become very anti-social in a lot of respects due to Publish 16 and AoS.

    I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your post though. :)

    Just my two cents worth.

    :popcorn:
     
  7. DENNAR

    DENNAR Journeyman
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    T Amon: I was probably one of the most vocal about having trammel and leaving felucca behind. But after being gone for awhile I came to the realization that having different rulesets hurt us in many ways. Just one of which was the programming needed to maintain 2 facets.

    While thinking this new way I am in no way in favor of PK's being able to run wild. I understand statloss was an attept to control rampant PK'ing but lets face reality, if someone was in statloss they either spent time as a ghost or UAM. If they got statloss they UAM back the skills.

    In spending time away and thinking I thought of the idea that might lead to some fun in the game and open some avenues even for RP people.

    By having town guard patrols actually patrolling the kings roads and no recall except to your home. It would force the PK's to travel overland and possibly run into the patrols. Who says the patrols need line of sight or even have to be on the same screen to see villans?

    So say we went with the stockade idea and a PK caught by the town guard was placed in the stockade of the town that caught them. A new action coded in so people could throw trash at the captured villan. Now on top of that, depending on the number of kills he is convicted of, he stays in the stockade. This could be a 24-72 hour period and the period could be reduced by posting bail. Posting bail could reduce stockade time by 30%. Thus making it costly to the PK. But posting NO Bail means you stay in stockade and have fines levied against the account. You have fines no matter what--it is just that Bail will get you back in game quicker.

    Now when there was statloss--there was not much satisfaction for the victims, but having a stockade and having Bail, the victims at least might have some satisfaction. There is the PK out of commission for at least some period and a cost for their actions.

    Imagine also Caravans traveling between towns. These Caravans staffed with NPC's that are attackable and give MURDER COUNTS, but have some decent loot. The guards are not as good as the one hit wonders but are still pretty tough. This would add a RP flavor for player escorts. And Give PK's a target--unless a town patrol comes around.

    What I meant about the loot idea is this--If you are a scrolled out character killing something like a Harpy should give no loot. Yes it would give feathers but no gem like it is now nor any gold or items. Loot should be there for the lower level fighters to help them as they develope.

    Now to add some additional ideas so that the opening post would not be to large.

    The body of water in Ishnar should be opened up. I understand originally it was supposed to be and have sea horses and other such things. Forget the sea horses. But what about having an underwater dungeon? You must aquire an item that allows you to breathe underwater, but once used and you surface the item no longer works, you need to replace it.

    As far as that overland spawn I mentioned. Imagine an army of Gargoyles with a few Wyverns-Dragons-Balrons-imps marching toward Britain. Town patrols can engage them as well as players. This army once defeated is gone they dont respawn. But as the last one drops there is a gold drop similar to a champ spawn. So killing them has a benefit. There is also enough types of beasts that many players could particpate.

    I also think the land needs a king. Lord British should be a npc in game that is seen from time to time. He could call citizens to his aid in marhing agains an enemy of the crown. He could lead an invasion on T2A and the Ophidians that has amassed an army. He goes into the battle as a npc when he has enough followers. The kings guard should also march thru towns in formation. Nothing but a show thing but add a little feel to the game.

    Enough again for tonight. Just some ideas thrown out. Not necessarily the best ones, just something to ponder.
     
  8. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    So playing within the rules of the game wold/could get you a 24-72 hour "ban"? No thanks.
     
  9. DENNAR

    DENNAR Journeyman
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    Well lets see under the current system you are locked into one facet if you are red. Dev team has to be split between two sets of code. They tried statloss and recently took that away, yet when was the last content written that aided felucca? Yes I have read that factions is getting some love currently.

    In my suggestion you would have access to all facets and development time would not have to be shared between two facets. Yes you would have town patrols to worry about--is that any difference to being in statloss and having anti pk groups kill you then have to regain stats? You would have 4 land masses to pk in. I see big gains for the game as a whole.

    Now maybe my idea isnt perfect but it could be a starting point. Instead of just saying no why dont you come up with a suggestion that you see worked in?
     
  10. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    Because I like things how they are.
     
  11. Mythic

    Mythic Guest

    DENNAR! Your kind is sorely missed old man! I Like your thoughts, I still Believe very strongly to this day that Insurance and Tram have been the demise of UO. Come Back, Get on Siege, Take everyone with you. If EA where to drop Insurance and do away with the trammel ruleset sure we would lose folks in droves, but we would gaine so very many more IMO.
     
  12. Korso

    Korso Guest

    Great post DENNAR. Only thing im not sure about is the looting and dungean change of creatures all the time. Other then that I couldn't agree more.
     
  13. The Craftsman

    The Craftsman Lore Master
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    Thanks for the insightful reply Aran. Youre an arsehole Aran.
     
  14. Korso

    Korso Guest

    yeah, besides the stupid replies that you knew would follow, you have to admit he does have a great point. UO has lost its lure by going to far with a lot of things. I still can't believe how spot on you are with the majority of that post.
     
  15. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    You're absolutely useless.
     
  16. Korso

    Korso Guest

    Pot, meet kettle
     
  17. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    I serve as the "bad example" and take a lot of pride in my position.
     
  18. Cybrdragon

    Cybrdragon Guest

    I think UO died for me at Age of Shadows. It just took me several more years to realize it. I kept hoping and hanging on. I finally found a better game and now looking back, UO seems really silly. I can't believe I played it for so long after it was broken, and I ceased having fun; I think it was a simple case of addiction.

    But no one currently playing really wants to hear this. And if accounts were tied to game accounts, like they should be, they'd never hear from us. Well, actually, I still pay for two accounts. I haven't been able to bring myself to shut them down yet. Lol.
     
  19. gonna miss ya buddy
    it was damn sure some awesome fun
    you did some of the best events we ever had on LS
    i will always miss the good ole pirate wars
    thx for that
    and be sure to look me up if ya ever return
    i'll still be here
    i just keep rollin with the punches
    some fine ideas btw
    :thumbup1:
     
  20. Mairut

    Mairut Guest

    First of all, the reason that I'm posting in an old thread is because I see these same arguments and same ideas all over UO stratics forums.

    I'm not attacking anyone in particular, but this did catch my attention, and gave me an opportunity to point out something to others I've had on my mind for a while:


    The game Runescape already has an underwater "dungeon" with a breathing apparatus needed to get to it.

    And you have to go through a gate that takes you directly to your home.

    And it has a certain amount of the land open for non-paid accounts and the rest open to people who pay.

    And a million other things that it borrowed from Ultima, or vice-versa; or that people seem to want to borrow from one game and put it in there own, but don't realize that the one game is already doing it. And this strictly being between UO and RS.

    Heck, on the Runescape forums at one point, someone was asking if there could be an introduction of "mounts" into the game. Someone else told them that they wanted something original, not something borrowed from another game. HHMMMM.

    The reason I play this and not Runescape (although most of my family plays that) is because that game is one of those described as "leading the player around by the nose through quests" or whatever the quote was, and I completely agree with that.
     
  21. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    Runescape isn't a real game, no matter how many people play it.
     
  22. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    That's what did it for me.

    The longer you play UO, the more you realize that every single aspect of the game is dominated by cheaters.

    At some point you either become a cheater yourself in order to compete, or you just quit.

    Given UO's pathetic playerbase, I'm guessing most of us honest players decided to quit.
     
  23. Valentina

    Valentina Guest

    I agree wiht you on many points, though not all. I LIKE item insurence. Full loot PvP sucks - it is one of the few things I remember about old-school UO that I didn't care for. I do, however, agree that Trammel was a bad idea. I like the greater importance f items to - it expands the number of viable builds, adds an additional strategic element to the game, and gives you something to strive for after you've maxed all your skills (which takes about 0 time to do); but I agree that it a much, MUCH better idea if players could make the finest gear in the game themselves rather than farming it from certain mobs.

    I too notice that cities seem empty, and its depressing. I have to imagine this has a lot to do with declining server populations, but still.
     
  24. Barrakketh

    Barrakketh Guest

    I think trammel was great , they just needed to make it easier to go to Fel and have more guard areas. I started UO with the opening of trammel and went to fel , fel was very tough for a new player , you had to learn the game itself with the extra trouble pvp at the same time , that was to much for new players. PvP as you know is a game unto itself I had friends quit UO becuase of pvp before their free month expired because they felt at such a great disadvantage to the veteran players.
    I think one point that many pvp fans over look about it is that pvp in UO was an end game for some players. Only after a new player had a chance to play UO make friends in game , learn skills , skill up , pve , craft , gather , find a house plot etc. could then go pvp , or at some time sooner if they wanted to ,but for UO pvp is best as an option not mandatory to play.


    Most people that I know that played the game really liked recall it helped players a lot , maybe if it had been limited to towns and dungeons.

    PvP always has more downside than upside in mmo's which is a problem when each subscriber pays the same fee. I would liked to have seen more monetary penalties associated with murders with higher rewards for their death.


    I think the simple fact that a skilled player could find better rewards on tougher mobs is insentive enough.

    Agreed

    Agree. I always felt the key to a game like UO is a chain that connects the gather - to crafter - to pve - to pvp. Armor should have stayed the way it was for the different types (plate , chain , studded , leather , cloth) items should not be permament with, limited durability and no insurance, so crafters are always in the loop

    Agreed , along with regular GM events that incorporate a story line.

    AoS completely ruined UO. Housing shouldnt have been completely customizable exteriors , there should been a limited number of house design styles that complimented the town area , as is UO is a mish mash of designs and boxes with steps and a door.

    Ultimately UO's demise can be blamed on those in control of its development , they lacked the insight needed to keep the game growing.
     
  25. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    It used to be that way. If you didnt eat, you'd die.
     
  26. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    No it didn't.