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UO's 13th birthday and accounts' offenses....

Discussion in 'UHall' started by popps, Feb 3, 2010.

  1. popps

    popps Always Present
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    As UO approaches its 13th birthday, I was thinking about those accounts which over the years, perhaps many, many years ago, were marked for non-perma ban offenses for one reason or another (funny names, unattended macroing, whatever.....).

    Ain't it about time, perhaps, that some statute of limitations is introduced also in UO ?

    That is, marks older than x years get automatically erased with no reference whatsoever maintained about them and the account becomes clean again to the viewer so that a rep reviewer could not be influenced by them ?

    The logic of my thinking, is that I find it unreasonable that a player who made a small mistake 10 years ago, for example, might still suffer any consequence for that today.
    Mind you, when the player was a younger age, the company who owned the game another one and, perhaps, even the rules back then different than the rules today !!

    just a thought....
     
  2. If you're talking about accounts over a decade old, chances are they either permanently quit Ultima Online (good riddance) or started up a second account shortly after being banned. And, one would hope, acted in accordance with the rules from that point on, thereby negating any use of having the old one reactivated, while still reinforcing their wrongdoing by having it stay banned.

    Simply put: No.
     
  3. GreywolfUK

    GreywolfUK Sage
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    In a word NO, I have at least one mark on my account that I know of, I got caught doing something wrong and was punished for that, I deserved it, so has everyone else that broke the rules, no matter how long ago the offence took place,

    My offence was way back when Brit smithy was still running strong. I got :bored: one night, and decided to finally get the last gain to gm tinkering with trapped crates, and to celebrate I went to Tram Vepser bank, back room, hid the boom box there and watched, got this one poor trainee lockpicker about 12 times with the same box. I did wrong and paid the price, I was very lucky, GM was one of the old school, I could easily been perma banned.

    If you was this poor lockpicker, then :pint: :pint: :pint: :pint: :pint: :pint: :pint: for you
     
  4. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    I've been permabanned on my primary account. Along with dozens of temporary bans stemming from MyUO forum... encounters.

    Nothing is truly permanent.
     
  5. Coldren

    Coldren Sage
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    You know, you could just be more straightforward and say "I" instead of "player".

    So what did you get marked for?
     
  6. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    It's popps. Take a guess.
     
  7. I was thinking the same thing. Too bad he figured out he could just open another account....:rant2:
     
  8. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    Popps:

    The statute of limitations on marked accounts is currently 15 years. Please rememebr to post this again in another couple of years.
     
  9. Megilhir

    Megilhir Guest

    No.

    Cheats, hacks, exploits and extreme griefers should be banned.

    (You should be relieved we no longer have an Arena in real life.)

    Virtual bullies probably need their real life asps kicked more so than RL bullies. At least the RL ones are exposing themselves to some amount of personal risk. Maybe that little geek kid is a trained marital artist....

    ...probably not.
     
  10. Demonous

    Demonous Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
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    a brand new account i made years ago was perma banned because i named a character Honky... i wasn't even trying to be racist or anything, some turd paged on me cause i was at an idoc on the character and he didn't want me there, the character was still young mind you so imagine i was a brand new uo player and got perma banned for this, probably would have just given up on uo and that would be how they lose customers... dunno why the gm wouldn't just let me change my name, seriously some gms do the dumbest things
     
  11. Demonous

    Demonous Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
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    griefing is a part of gaming in general so i don't see anything wrong with it, however scammers should definitely be added to that list, i remember a time when gms would actually suspend people for pulling a scam on someone... now you wait an hour to get an automated message
     
  12. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    I grief AND scam. It's fun. Try it.
     
  13. Mina_Lino

    Mina_Lino Journeyman
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    would be sweet if i could somehow pay to get my account updated to its actual age.

    I toke a long break and according to UO my account is only 6 years old..in reality my account is about 10 years old.
     
  14. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    You took a long break. Your account isn't ten years old.
     
  15. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    Wrong my main account is a little over 12 and has never been shut down for more than a day.
     
  16. wanderer1origin

    wanderer1origin Lore Master
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    poops why would we wish to let trash, reopen accounts that have dupes, scripted resources, etc back into game they can easyly buy new account code if have itch to play!! sorry popps your old account that got banned should stay that way!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  17. I think certain ones should. (Yes, namely mine) I got a mark for 'luring' about 8 years ago, on a character that had no means of hiding or invising, and was simply just running away from a then target switching dragon. Yet today when someone spends the best part of an hour deliberately luring on me, with Invis, & Invising my pet, I page and nothing is done about it.

    I frequently hear about people getting them for training Discord because the 'target couldn't reach them', perhaps someone should explain to the GM's that Discord isn't a flagging action.

    The GM's have always been crap.
     
  18. Shelleybean

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    Popps I have to say that I am really astonished that you would request something like this when you have been such a big supporter of cracking down on cheaters.
     
  19. 'Made a small mistake 10 years ago' and 'duping billions of gold' are not excatly the same thing.
     
  20. wanderer1origin

    wanderer1origin Lore Master
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    why with all problems in game should uo sopend time fixing your mistakes, less a fee maybe 100 dollars or more and then a empty bank, backpack on all toons


     
  21. Becuase:

    1) Marks are not always given for the right reason.
    2) Marks are not all equal in severity.
    3) Cancelled accounts lose them money.
     
  22. Tinsil

    Tinsil Guest

    Someone tired of getting made fun of in UO by the big bad bullies? Sheesh. Just put em on ignore and stay away.
     
  23. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - ^2
    Imo, things are quite fine just the way they are, in regards to this.
    My only thought is that they should charge about 5 to 10 times as much as they do for an account transfer if there are marks on said account ;)
     
  24. wanderer1origin

    wanderer1origin Lore Master
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    most accounts i ahve heard about being banned is for scripting

    why should a scripter be able too bring his loot back to game!!!!!!!!!!!!

    or they got banned for holding ilicit items dupper droped large amount again not needed in game

    if was dumb enough to get banned for minor offence then learn with skills regain new items



     
  25. 1) 'accounts you've heard of being banned' are not what Popps is talking about.
    2) Scripting is not what Popps is talking about.
    3) Minor offenses (swearing etc) are not on par with duping billions.
    4) Its not a case of 'being dumb enough'. GM's are not infaliable. They get it wrong, they pull you to prison for a chat and ban you anyway, it doesn't matter if they got it wrong, they're not going to admit it.

    If you can't understand that then its a good job you're not running UO or thered be no one left playing.
     
  26. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Nothing at all, really.

    The issue came up to my mind reading the Bards' Forum and someone who got a 24 hours ban when training discordance.

    I thought how many players over the years might have run into small problems and I concluded that, IMHO, it was ridicolous to keep players hanging over mistakes done years and years far away.

    That's all.

    It beats me WHY whenever I may post something there is always people out there who thinks I am posting about me and any personal agenda I may have.

    I DON'T, most of the times, like it or not, believe it or not.
     
  27. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I was not talking about accounts perma banned for serious offenses to the game like dupes, cheats and blah blah.

    I was merely referring to those 24 hours temporary bans or "marks" which do not threaten the life of an account "per se" unless one gets to the "3 strikes and out"......

    Serious offenses which granted perma bans I agree, accounts should never ever be reinstated.

    But players who got reprimended (and had their accounts marked) for minor offenses, these after a few years should go away, IMHO.
     
  28. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I am, no doubts. But my argument wants to favour the players who occasionally got a mark, not the systematic cheaters.

    I will explain my thinking so that you may understand better my point.

    If the statute of limitation is a good number of years, say 5 or 6, and we still have the 3 strikes and a player is out policy, this means that if a player does 3 bad actions over these many years the account is gone.

    Now, having a statute of limitation still keeps the player wary of his or her account under some "check" since marks will not all go away, but 1 by 1 as years go by.

    Cheaters.

    For cheaters, I personally refer to players who do it quite often, daily or at least several times in a week. Not actually the player who once in a blue moon trained a skill unattended or made am occasional mistake for some reasons.

    Players who often cheats, would not get any benefit from a statute of limitations for marks since the years needed for them to go away would be far more than their usual habit of cheating in the game.

    Bottom line is, the way I see it, is that chances are that for players who cheat often, it easily might be that they would get to their 3 strikes (and be out) before any statute of limitations kicks in.

    So, my argument is more directed to regular players who occasionally might have erred rather than to systematic cheaters.
     
  29. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Please note I was NOT referring to reinstating accounts perma banned over bannable offenses.

    I was merely referring to marks for minor offenses, those which grant a 24 hour ban or a reprimand but which do count towards the "3 strikes and out" policy.
     
  30. Coldren

    Coldren Sage
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    First of all, If that's the case, you may wish to consider working on your communication skills.

    Context is everything. Given the perception you seem to be fully aware people have of you, accurate or not, ensuring you provide the proper context can make a world of difference.

    Being as transparent as possible helps. Had you stated the source of this idea, maybe even provided a link, it helps it from being misconstrued. Any other meaning derived or perceived outside of the stated facts can be refuted and exposed as opinion much more easily if you make certain the facts are clear.

    Secondly, if he got banned for training up Discordance, you have to also set the context - When did he do it? How long? Why was he "Caught" (Macroing)? Why does it matter that he was caught and then banned for such a short time and it was marked on his account? Did it stop him from getting some kind of home loan?

    Rebelling without a clear and concise explanation as to why is a sure-fire way to invite misinterpretation, and unless it's done for the sake of pure entertainment (Which there is nothing wrong with, mind you), you should know precisely what the outcome will be.

    If what you say is true and I have offended you in some way, then I sincerely apologize - The context of your post was not well defined, and I'm not above anyone else in that I will also jump to conclusions and misinterpret.

    If it's not? Well.. What can I say? I'm the sucker born this minute. :thumbup:
     
  31. Spree

    Spree Babbling Loonie
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    You lose 1 point off you divers license if you go 3 years without any tickets. Why should you still have mark on your account because you macroed magery 12 years ago. They should drop after x year of no offenses.
     
  32. Mook Chessy

    Mook Chessy Certifiable
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    I almost got banned for creating a char (drunk one night) named

    dikgoezinya

    Lucky for me the GM was nice guy and laughed, then changed the name to Toby!

    Woot!
     
  33. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    You walk on the edge and then you just need to live with it. There is no excuse for cute,lazy or trying to get over. It is not like some point system that can be deleted after some time. More like those hand wigglies wont grow back and the disposal got your insurance gold. Treasure ones have left, I heard the blender is short on gold.
     
  34. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I believe EA has a policy for "coming back" to UO if you were banned.... but I do not believe they let you ever have the banned account back.

    The whole post is moot anyway it would never happen.
     
  35. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
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    i think that your points DO fall off over the years.

    cause i like most of you have an account from beta, and lets face it, im not know for holding my smart ass tongue.

    that said, just sitting here i can think of at least 7 times ive gotten a vacation over the years.

    so those SHOULD have added up to a perma after like, what..... 3?

    so i would think they do infact fall off over time.

    hehehe
    i remember when me and 2 friend first got into PVP we where nasty bad at it.
    i remember we where freshlly res'd sitting at the moongate and i said "man, i just got ****d by that fella"

    vacation.

    i can remember the old days, plugging a penny into the keyboard to loop hiding skill to train.... at the bank (i dont recommend that)

    vacation.

    hell, i got a mark for having the name Poo!!!!

    granted i also got a mark for having the name Dirty Sanchez and Red Snapper (still have my Personal Bless Deeds for them too!)

    and, if you dont know, calling a GM names when they come to talk to ya.... ya that gets ya vacation too.
    but in my defense i knew i was getting a vacation allready and he was baiting me!!
     
  36. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    Poo, I get many laughs reading some of your posts.
     
  37. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Please excuse me, but I seem, in my original post, to have never stated that I was presenting the issue as "my" problem....

    I simply stated an opinion, my opinion, that I thought it proper that, after a few years, marks for non bannable offenses should "wear off" by introducing a statute of limitation for them.

    It beats me how from such an opinion, a general opinion, anyone might have derived that I was talking about a personal issue (which it was not).

    I do not see why it would have been necessary to provide a link to the bards' forum thread which prompted me to that thinking because I think it as irrelevant for the argument's discussion but oh well......

    The link to the thread is this http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=178591
     
  38. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I disagree with the argument that erasing marks was not (and should never be) possible because people deserved those marks and so they should stay.

    Truth is, that there does is already a work around to wipe off those marks.

    It is called, transferring the account.

    A player concerned with too many marks on the account can just transfer the account to a friend or a family relative, wipe off the marks and keep playing the account all cleaned up !

    But I hate work arounds because I see them as patched solutions to a problem.

    Since players can ALREADY currently wipe off their marks with a work around transfer, wouldn't it be better to just have a statute of limitations and have marks go away after X years ?

    At least, it would be linear and in the open sunshine without any work arounds.

    I much prefer clean and squared out solutions to patched up work arounds.

    But perhaps it is just me and my way of thinking......
     
  39. popps

    popps Always Present
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    The argument is NOT, I repeat it, NOT about giving banned accounts back to those players who got banned over bannable game offenses.

    The argument is merely about NON-bannable offenses which grant "marks" on accounts.

    I suggest that after X years those marks go wiped away.

    This would in NO WAY affect accounts already banned over serious, game bannable offenses.

    Those banned accounts would STAY banned, shut off, gone for good, dead.

    I hope it is more clear now.
     
  40. ACB1961

    ACB1961 Lore Keeper
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    I never thought you had a mark against one of your accounts for a sec. You just don't seem like the type of person to do anything wrong.
     
  41. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, if that is the case and indeed after X years marks go away, cleansed out, it would be nice to see this in writing somewhere as THE official policy and not something merely guessed.........
     
  42. Damien Softstep

    Damien Softstep Visitor

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    They can barely make sure our months are correct on our accounts what makes you think they will keep up with this?
     
  43. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    I got unbanned after being permabanned for harassment.
     
  44. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
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    i would think if they did track them then that would be listed somewhere on your account where you can see it.

    like here on stratics, you can go to your user panel and you can see all your infractions.

    i would think it would be the same way with UO when you enter the edit account thingy.

    but there is nothing there.
    it would make scence that if they did have a cut off then they would have it listed where you could see it so you would know how close you where to the line.
    cause we all forget stuff over the years.
     
  45. wanderer1origin

    wanderer1origin Lore Master
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    poops have you seen the gm sheet on offenses i havnt

    so before you give hope or ask for it start there

    i dont no there list good bad offenses

    i just think wasting resources for this over fixing real problems game

    well game come first

    why i posted steep price otherwise some would slip through cracks

    and those that try hack skill gain cost uo money as they cant collect for time in regular game play would take cough cough "joke" here

    poops keep young program threas u push for fixing though taking short cuts

    isnt a idea most will go for we all had to run gauntlet on training skills and had to run risk or do legit

    some got caught if not a reason not to do easy way more would and we would get more script monkeys

    dont you rember when we had in mining spots caves a huge amount of auto bot miners public out cry finally made uo get rid of

    if your idea hapens it will casue a similar re boot of robots as no spank when do bad things


     
  46. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Live with the mark on your account. Unless you plan on breaking more rules there shouldn't be a problem at all with having it there.
     
  47. Vertigo

    Vertigo Guest

    That paragraph was painful to read.
    I actually re-read it a second time using "caveman" speak and the results were much funnier. :lol:
     
  48. siyeng0

    siyeng0 Guest

    Hey guys! Let's play a game!

    I call it Guess the Offense. Popps asks for his account to be unmarked, and we all have to guess what he did wrong!

    My Guess: Either sending ~1,672,397 pages in complaining because his horse wouldn't eat the leg of lamb he was trying to feed it, or sexually soliciting a GM, or both.
     
  49. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Let's not. :thumbdown:

    It is my understanding, from something one of the EA people said years ago, that these 'marks' on accounts are simply a written note of what the offence was and what action was taken. Logically any decision to ban an account would take into account what the offence was and how long ago.
    Three minor offences spaced over several years is unlikely to get anyone banned.
     
  50. Fink

    Fink Guest

    Marks against your account don't really affect you until you get caught doing something else. It's a cumulative effect, like Baseball's three strikes and out rule.

    People are asking what you did, but I'd be more interested in what you have planned.:eyes: