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UO's 15th, A Dissapointment

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Green Mouser, Sep 30, 2012.

  1. Green Mouser

    Green Mouser Guest

    I was at the LBR Event. even flew my guild to it. It was a large event. Lots of people, lots of group discussions and of course a New Release.

    Years Later I go to the High Seas Event. Class room size event, a few peeps but a New Release.

    15th Anniversary meeting: Same classroom, a few peeps, No new release and a Q&A with the energy of a death watch. It seemed the UO team except for Messana didnt want to be there and didnt want to answer much of anything . Could be there is nothing new of much interest for them to announce.

    We learned that even though they have some of the infrastructure to correct the isolation and decay of many low population shards they don't wish to (its to hard). They really had nothing to tease us with except maybe something with tinkers maybe next year if they maybe stop thinking about it. The Q&A on this site gives us more info.

    They gave us a new King (our special guest), ummm what catacomb did we dig him out of?

    15th Anniversary, will the 20th be a podcast from some Producer's livingroom?

    The biggest yess moment.......We are going to steal the house inventory idea......to be released next year .

    Really?
     
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  2. Piotr

    Piotr Stratic's Finest
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    :banana:
     
  3. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    So they did not say the things you wanted to hear? I know quite a few that disagree with your assessment.
     
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  4. Blood Ghoul

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    I was actually suprised at how much they have planned and new ideas. I am sure watching it online was brutal and I agree the rest of the team seemed a little reserved but I think it was just them being uncomfortable in front of the group speaking.. Which is fine since most people do not like to be in front of groups... I mean some of the player questions were very hard to follow as it seemed as soon as people were handed that mic they froze in place.
     
  5. Rupert Avery

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    I think without getting into a debate about it... This is the kind of thing that you take what you want from it.. I know there were people there who don't play UO anymore... But were excited enough to see what it was all about... 1 of them at least has started his account again.... I can also see why some people may of been disappointed... I wasn't there and only saw it through the live stream, I thought The information was very good.. However if I was able to go I wouldn't of been going for the info they gave us.. It would of been for the awesome day and meeting the Devs
     
  6. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
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    C'mon... UO players are kinda a different breed... maybe you forgot that some people value eye candy over gameplay.
    Those of us that play this game, no matter what client, no matter what gameplay style.. play it because it's different.
    We don't need a green arrow on our map telling us what to do next.
    You have to admit we are a small group.
    It's cool EA seems to think it is worth something.. anyway.
     
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  7. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    The only way to truly fix the low population shards is to bring in more players. That's it. You're hinting at shard mergers, and while you may not trust the UO team when they say it would disrupt and upset players, trust me, it would. If you **** with peoples' housing many will leave, and shard mergers definitely **** with peoples housing.
    How long have you played UO? Starr Long was one of the best guests they could have had, plus he's not partnered with a company that EA is trying to sue into oblivion (which automatically excludes Garriott from the process). Part of an anniversary is about celebrating the past, and Starr had some information about UO's past that most on the team would not have, since they were not in his position.

    Would you have preferred Jeff Skalski to talk about Ultima Forever? Or Mesanna repeat what she said early on in the day?

    I have mixed feelings, but not because of the guest (thought he was a good choice), and not because of what they revealed.

    In case anybody hasn't been paying attention, Mesanna has made it clear with the presentation on Saturday, followed by the images they released, and with the producer's letter and with one of the Q&As, that they are working on high resolution graphics. That's what I want to hear because it's something that can bring people in. I would have liked to have seen a lot more about the update, but at least they were showing off some artwork. It's been very difficult to get that kind of information out of them.
     
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  8. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Can't tell if serious. They had page after page of things in development and one heck of a lunch setup. I'll post pics in my thread for the purpose of debate, but dang, I guess some people just can't be pleased.

    Mesanna ought to confiscate your vet rewards, lol. Catacomb? If you don't know the original Blackthorn maybe it's time to dust yourself off ;P.
     
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  9. Sean

    Sean Slightly Crazed
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    That's not quite what she said, she pointed out that unless folks REALLY WANTED it, they would never force folks to give up their homes and that is why UO has never reduced the shard numbers. That was the main point.

    The REALLY HARD comment was made by Mrs Troublemaker in response to a question about not having to log all the way out to change chars on the same account.

    I'm sure you can hear again when they repost the video. Then again folks hear what they want to hear. If your shard is so dead it bothers you. Make the move, what's holding you back?

    Personally I went to see friends I've played with over the last 15 years, some I've already met, some I hadn't. And to me having Starr Long as the special guest was on spot, he was there at the beginning and is willing to take Mesanna up on her offer to login as Blackthorne from time to time. What fun will that be!

    Seriously, other then RG, who else would you've chosen as a special guest for UO's 15th? I totally enjoyed the Q&A with him, it was a lot of fun. As was the event, I din't need a polished marketing WOW extravaganza, I enjoyed the moment for what it was, with the personal feel the team gave it.

    IMHO of course, your welcome to yours
     
    #9 Sean, Sep 30, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2012
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  10. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    To each their own. Can't please everyone but they sure did a good job at pleasing most people with the celebration.
     
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  11. Angel of Sonoma

    Angel of Sonoma Certifiable
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    I had a great time at the event. Starr Long was an excellent guest speaker and I quite enjoyed hearing his stories. His intro, w/ Jeff Skalski & Dudley in costume, was funny. You could tell Mythic put alot of effort planning for the event and I for one appreciated it.

    Not everyone is keen about public speaking and I got the impression many of the devs were uncomfortable in the spotlight. Mesanna on the other hand is a perfect fit as the UO producer. She actually LOVES the game and is one of the best ambassadors for UO. She is really interested in hearing what ideas players have for new content.
     
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  12. Green Mouser

    Green Mouser Guest

    They have the technology to make it happen without affecting anyones home. All they have to do is beef up the Xfer system. But its either to hard for them to make something happen or the World Gate would affect the revenue source to greatly. With a world gate we wouldnt need to move our resources, could join in on large functions or hunt on a quieter shard. PVP guilds use to jump shards to make a statement....havent heard them do that ina while.....talk about an impact in PVP if shards wared.

    Actually, I have been visiting other shards and have found them to be much deader than Legends (rest in peace Sonoma). I left Chessy for Legends and I am happy there. I am a firm believer World Gate will keep the eventual tombstone from being placed til much later.

    In all THINGS UO does having to log all the way out affect much? In the days before insurance when you had to rush back in to save your possessions from decay I could see. But be real, should the devs use their valuable time modifying Log-in or develope a new system or repair a bug?
     
  13. Green Mouser

    Green Mouser Guest


    Compare this last event with the previous event. The staff was so much engaged. They were excited. Mostly because they had a release to talk about. Thus my point they missed the previous boat on this meet.
     
  14. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    How?

    There are a fair number of people who are playing on the lower population shards that have castles... or luna inside the wall houses... or 18x18's in a prime location. On the heavier populated shards (Atlantic) all of those spots are taken. So how do they have the technology to make it happen with that being the case? Allow double stacking of houses?!?
     
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  15. NBG

    NBG Lore Master
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    The Devs definitely need to learn to come out of their shell as far as answering questions but its a celebration meeting and lets not ruin it.

    Lets be honest with the amount of people they have on the Dev team, I think most of us would rather they spend the time to improve the game instead of trying to push out another half working expansion or booster. Lets just hope the UI improvement, high res art, bug fixes and other game feature improvements will fix the game we all love. Hey, who knows.... maybe with the improvements, we just might gain enough interest from potential players to make a difference and EA will be more willing to allocate more resource to make sure we have enough players attending the 20th anni that will fill that room three times over?
     
  16. Green Mouser

    Green Mouser Guest

    Hard to debate you GVP. I saw you at the previous event. If anyone person playing represents UO, its you. May the shadow of doom never cross your log-in screen. The loss of my vet rewards would irritate. For you I could see you visiting the complex knocking on the door.
     
  17. Green Mouser

    Green Mouser Guest

    Read the full response
     
  18. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    *looks to the higher ups at Stratics*

    Anyway we can get a "dislike" button? :sad4:
     
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  19. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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    IMO I don't see much future in what there saying. I mean it's been a bit since an expansion and no immediate plans to do so. Now there keeping us busy with fluff (i do like my fluff ). I do not want bug publishes (these should not have to be dedicated for an entire publish). The talk of what "could" happen and what does actually happen is my main concern. They need to know the veterans for the most part are here to stay and need to focus on more ways to bring the new player into the game.

    1. No talk of shard mergers is a bad idea- My home shard is a dead shard and you want to know what the population of that shard is? About 10-20 people (no more than 5 people are on this shard any given night). 5 people on at "Prime time" is a joke. A new player that logs into ghost towns will not be hooked in playing UO!

    2. We need more playable races, 5 or so (I know the artwork/clothing would be a huge pain but seeing new races would result in new subs)

    3. The high res art work could be nice but will this happen with "1" person working on it. Hell he is good but 1 person redoing all the artowrk thats been produced over 15 years could take 1 person awhile

    4. Things take to long to redo in UO (Doom- How many years has this sitting there collecting dust? ML bosses haven't been touched)

    5. Free to play would hook new players (UO is damn addictive)

    In all I think there needs to be more focus on what there trying to achieve. It just feels like were trying to hang on at this point. I rather them attempt something radical than let us linger until they pull the plug. You gotta break some eggs to make a cake :)
     
  20. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Seriously? You think these are good ideas?

    You do not speak for me.
     
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  21. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    lol but seriously...I think the 15th was more rewarding than the last one, as far as the dressing up they did, the special guest, the nice lunch...I mean, let's face it...they don't often explain stuff during their Q&A time. like I tried to get Mesanna to address the idea of a new PvP shard, and she told us they did have plans, but wouldn't tell us yet ;P. that's fair in my opinion because it's kind of a message board situation, something they ought to discuss with us in a group (especially if they get rid of factions and test order/chaos through that shard).
     
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  22. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Keep the personal out please, and the conspiracy theories. Some posts have been removed.

    I'm sorry you didn't like the party, Green Mouser, but I think you're in a minority.
    Keep in mind that the team are used to working together in an office, not addressing public meetings. They were well out of their comfort zones.
    Jeff is obviously not a good candidate for the local am dram group :D
     
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  23. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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    I guess you have no vision about what needs to take place to make this game better/attract new subs. These points are ones that other Mega MMO's have followed and been very successful but what do they know?
     
  24. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    They know what's good for THEIR game, it doesn't automatically follow it's good for UO.
    It's a lot easier to merge servers when nothing is unique on those servers and nothing can be added to the landscape to personalise it.
    Playable races are possibly more appropriate when characters are fixed and there are only a very limited number of choices?
    I do not agree with most of your suggestions.
     
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  25. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I also don't agree with most of your suggestions. All the points you listed have been debated intensely on the boards time and again. Additionally, in those discussions many other people have also voiced their disagreement to implement most of those ideas.
     
    #25 Viper09, Oct 1, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012
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  26. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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    Very bad idea.

    If you merge Drachenfels with Europa , you think all the people from Drachs going to move to new shard? Very unlikely. If Drachs Merge with Europa I'm out of here and i know i will take many players with me.

    If you don't like your shard, move yourself then. But stop trying to take away peoples homes and history they been on for years.

    People think Drachenfels is empty,pffff those are idiots who think that.

    Here livestream of yesterdays silly EM event with no rewards : Livestream

    We worked on a huge alliance, we worked on returning events and many more things. we might be a "smaller" shard but we have a lot of fun on it.

    Keep your hands on the so called smaller shards just because some players can't use there imagination to work together with the community on their own shards.
    Some people wants things all handed to them instead of trying to use there own power of imagination to make things happen.
    Some people are followers some are doers.

    If you got a problem with not enough things on your shard, then YOU do something about it. The Dev's gave us plenty of tool/things to us, use them!
    Thats what we did on Drachenfels and thats surprisingly working really well!


    One last thing:
    If people really are tired of the lack of things to do on their shard, i don't mind to take them in my guild on Drachenfels. I will help them with enough gold to place a 18X18 plot in any of the 4 player run towns. And i would not mind extra hands for new idea's or new player run events.
    And you will notice that the events with us are not coming from just 1 person but several. And even some of the events are achieved by help from players that people don't even know about ,like my last game show event.
     
    #26 Frarc, Oct 1, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012
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  27. Angel of Sonoma

    Angel of Sonoma Certifiable
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    The question of shard mergers came up during Q&A with the devs. Mesanna clearly stated there was no immediate plans for any shard mergers, which I was disappointed to hear. Home for me is a low population shard (Sonoma). Granted I also play on Chessy which has more people, but its not the same b/c most of my friends are on Sonoma.

    This was also asked during the meetup and is feasible.

    My hope, and my personal opinion only, is that Ultima Forever will somehow draw more subscriptions to UO. It was stated that there won't be any shelf presence for UO. The draw for new players will be from fansites and word of mouth.

    I agree and had hopes the "PVP shard" might be a step in the right direction. The idea is in it's infancy and we were told it may or may not happen. But after hearing the details it may work to keep current players only. (The plan is to create a Fel ruleset shard which you can log into with your PVP'er for battles with other players in an attempt to fix the lack of PVP on low population shards.)

    If you have ideas or suggestions, let Bonnie Armstrong hear them. She wants to hear from us players.
     
  28. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    To paraphrase Mesanna - they could code (and may even HAVE) a means to pack up your castle, but what good would it do if the destination only has room for smaller customs in oddball places?

    In my opinion, the only 2 ways shard mergers could work would be either to have the shards at a server farm share their Ilshenar & a reworked T2A (or even a new non-housing landmass), or have someone totally redo the world to where 1 step equals 1' (instead of the 1 step = 4', sometimes 5'), add that pack-up code, and give all house holders a deed (like New Magincia) for part of the area where their house was before, which being 16 times bigger would have more than enough room for all the existing houses (the downside to the latter is the effect it might have with unwelcome people getting stuck into player run town areas in fel, or even two towns overlapping). Both methods would be too time-consuming for the Dev team, unless someone wants to give them a million dollars to hire a team specifically for that kind of game rebuild, as you'd still have to deal with things like dozens of guilds with the same tags, moving all remaining event structures/memorials over, etc.
     
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  29. silent

    silent Lore Master
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    I guess a merge could work if they "stretched" the spaces where houses are already placed to accomodate the relocating house.
     
  30. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    Shard mergers are a nifty idea but a easier answer is just allowing us to have 2 or more houses on different shards, just limit the size to a small 8*8, I'd happily play more shards more often if I had a base to work from that was easier that a bank box. I have made mules on other servers but the logistics involved for suiting and stuff just make the process annoying and stop me in my tracks.

    The OP brings up a valid conversation which might not be super popular but is worth talking about all the same. Goodman also brought up some good ideas which did not need to be slamed down with a hostile reply and no filler.

    Ideas people, come on. We are all grown ups, act like it.
     
  31. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    They would have to to stretch the lands. That right there will take a lot of design and testing, because you are talking about stretching every area that can hold a house. That's going to change mountains, towns, spawns, the clients themselves/mapping, etc. etc. and if you're doubling or trippling up on shards, and the amount of land and monsters and everything, then you're going to reconfigure servers, which is going to add to the cost.

    That's not something they can do in 6 months of design, implementation, testing, fixing, and then roll out. And that's just stretching the land. If adding land was easy, we would have been getting new lands of some sort on a quicker basis. I can't imagine something like that being fully done in less than 9-12 months, minimum. Think about all of the problems we already have with terrain and magnify that on a super shard of sorts.

    Then there is all of the work to make sure that people got to keep their same locations, their player-run towns, the same houses. Some of that won't be easy to automate. You have to have the mindset that if you don't make somebody happy, they are gone, and that is lost revenue. Good luck on designing a brand new system that scans a shard, figures out where houses are and who owns them, and then some how translates that to a completely different shard with a completely different landmass (since it would have been stretched). You're talking about a good 6 months or longer because, again, you're going from an existing shard to a stretched shard.

    Then you have to transport all of the items from different shards to a new super shard. It's one thing to transport a player and a couple of packies. It's another to transport the entire contents of a house, thousands and thousand of items. Think about all of the problems people already have with losing items just with housing quirks now, and then throwing moving across shards into the mix. I don't see how it could be fully done in 6 months.

    These are things that cannot be done in parallel by different teams either, a lot of the work you are talking about can only be done by the people directly working on that stuff right now, and each major part of the whole process would have to be developed one at a time. They can't hire contractors to come in and work on something like this - this isn't new costumes or art. You're fundamentally altering shards.

    Two years from start to finish would be the minimum in my view, and I'm being very conservative. All three of these steps would have to be the most heavily tested system they've ever had. You can't just test it for a few weeks internally and throw it up on a TC. We're talking many months of testing and redesign and fixes before it ever goes live.

    And then there is the loss in revenue from people who would say from the very start "**** you, I've spent thousands of dollars over the last X amount of years keeping my house up and you want to move me to another shard simply because somebody else feels like they don't have enough people to play with? How about you move them and not me, because I'm happy where I'm at!"

    Oh, and I almost forgot. You would pretty much have to stop active development and bugfixing on UO, because a lot of the people needed for both of those things would be tied up with the merger designs.

    I have a very simple idea in my simple little head: Rather than spend a couple of years on shard mergers that are still going to piss off and drive away a lot of people, how about take that time and resources, and put them into attracting new players.

    All of those resources could go into improving gameplay, adding new areas, improving current areas, and *GASP* a decent new player experience that would increase the retention of first-time players.
     
    #31 Woodsman, Oct 1, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 1, 2012
  32. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    You could boil my whole argument down to this: You would be spending a lot of time, money, and dev resources moving the existing population around. The end result will be a lot of money spent with less revenue (due to people getting pissed and quitting).

    That's why the devs have said many times over the years that they won't do this. If the end result is less revenue, it's financially foolish.

    The shard merger people want more players to play with. I wish they would all push the team to do the kinds of things that will bring in new players, because that's the only solution that will keep UO going.
     
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  33. Amber Witch

    Amber Witch Slightly Crazed
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    Okay so they merger servers... we are all happy with our new homes. Lucky me. I got to keep my keep and castle side by side. Poor guy who I booted from his spot on his shard. Life suckeths.

    So now we have a new scenario:

    Now there isn't enough room to place new homes for the new folk that want to come to our merged shard or:
    All the good spots are taken or:
    Prices inflate on existing houses so that you can't buy someones house unless you have billions or:
    We are so crowded together that we can hear the conversations going on in the houses around us or:
    The guy who I booted rez kills me and trash talks every time he sees me until I sell him my keep and castle or:

    *flash back to pre-tram days*
    Does this sound familiar to anyone?
     
  34. Angel of Sonoma

    Angel of Sonoma Certifiable
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    How about.... an Account transfer token? Priced accordingly. Your whole account can be moved from one shard to another including your house? But the house will not be at the same coordinates as your original shard. For example: If you own a castle in Fel Trinsic, your castle on the new shard could be in any housing area in Fel.

    I don't know how difficult it is to change terrain, but perhaps the devs can get some shovels & axes and remove some uneven terrain or take down some trees to move the houses. There is lots of unusable land around Yew and Vesper. Or add to the mainlands of each facet.
     
  35. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Even if they didn't talk about attracting new players, some of what they talked about at the party is going to help with new players, such as high resolution stuff. A lot of it does go back to them wanting to please current players and try and bring back former players.

    Those of you who feel like you need a lot more players on your shard, start pushing the UO team, either here or in emails or Twitter or whatever, to look at that stuff. Tell them you don't want more pixel crack, you've got a dozen years of pixel in your house, tell them you want new players. New Player Experience, better client, etc. he Christmas stuff is probably already in or nearly, but tell them that rather than work on stuff for Valentine's Day or Easter or other such things, to take those resources and put into a new player experience. Valentine's Day is about love, and we love UO would like it to continue, and new players that stick around are the best gift they could give us.
     
  36. SlobberKnocker

    SlobberKnocker Slightly Crazed

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    ftp on some level should be looked at. i agree with the assesment that uo is certainly addicting. not a bad move either
    given today's economy.
     
  37. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
    Stratics Veteran

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    Iam with you, this was a very bad sign, also on TC booring event with only a few people, sad! Hope they will shut it down soon, this is not UO like!
     
  38. Queen Mum

    Queen Mum Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

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    Green Mouser, sorry to hear that the TH didn't measure up to your expectations. Hope you will take the time out to message Mesanna with your suggestions on how to make them better.

    And I have to ask ... May I please have your 15th anniversary robe, 15th anniversary T-Shirt & 15th anniversary signed Lithograph? I was not able to attend the celebration in Virginia :(. But really I would like to own them so, pretty please. :)

    I did however have lots of fun at the Stratics hosted party on Test Center while watching the stream from Fairfax ... even though I didn't win a prize :p.

    *cookie hugs*
     
    Lord Frodo likes this.
  39. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

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    First of all, where were you sitting Green Mouser? Because it sure wasn't in the building in Fairfax I was in.

    I ALSO was at the High Seas event as well as the 15th anniversary. While the front of the room was the same, it seemed to me as if they'd remodeled and the room 50% bigger than in 2010. In fact, I just looked at my OWN pictures from 2010. There appears to be FIVE rows of seats in 2010, the last being up against the wall, and that wall being where the SECOND set of columns was in the 2012 board room. Note my pic from 2010 standing at my seat in the FIRST ROW looking back at the back wall. The speakers in the intro video, and the seat for the coronation were in the room in about the same position as the computer in the pic below.

    [​IMG]

    There were definitely more chairs and more people than the 2010 meetup, and there were at least twice as many prize bags brought out than in 2010 for people to get, 1 each - yet there was more room in front of and behind the rows of seats. In fact, the staffers running the computers and getting the Questions from here and TC were in front of a partition seen at 4:20 in the Introductions video elsewhere on U.Hall - a partition that was in the DOOR side of the room in 2010, where WRR had their equipment set up back then. Oh, in 2010 there were about several times as many EMs present as there were in 2012, further throwing off the "regular attendee" numbers.

    And, it's interesting you didn't touch on all the things said before the Q&A session. All you've done is convince me YOU WEREN'T THERE.
     
    #39 Basara, Oct 1, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012
  40. Silentfury

    Silentfury Journeyman

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    I had a great time at the 15th Anniversary Party. And it was also a great reason to meet up with my fellow Guildmates. Of course many of the Dev Team members were uncomfortable speaking in public. They work in offices all day. Mesanna and the Dev Team did an excellent job pulling the Event together. Can't wait for the next reason to go down to VA and hang out again !
     
    CovenantX and Queen Mum like this.
  41. Jason

    Jason Adventurer

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    Um hate to bring this up -
    but since everyone seems so setup on shard mergers, the biggest problem I would face would be the ping
    I pvp - my home shard isnt exactly dead- but it is quiet (as is most of UO these days)

    any other shard I ping 3x too, and I find this most often when I x-shard somewhere
    there isnt any other shard in the current list that I have a decent ping to.

    So the second they did mergers - me and my 17 accounts would be outta here, due solely to unplayability
     
    Sean likes this.
  42. RuSini Neb

    RuSini Neb Journeyman

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    How does one spend over $221 in monthly subs on a single video game to pvp... DO you try to pvp on 17 characters at once ? these types of statements baffle me... that's more then my avg electricity bill a month .... Not to mention you state you play on one of the quieter shards... 17 accounts.. I have 3 and only seem to ever use one on a regular bassist ( I think when someone says 17 accounts they mean, 1 real account 16 trial accounts they have, or rtb accounts they dont pay for... )
     
    #42 RuSini Neb, Oct 2, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2012
  43. Amber Witch

    Amber Witch Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Gilfane

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    I know people who spend more than that every month on mountain dew, beer, movies, shoes, purses, on and on. If it gives someone pleasure who are we to deny them that or judge?
     
  44. Jason

    Jason Adventurer

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    Really is it any of your business that I have 17 accounts? and pay for 17 accounts?
    its called owning houses...
     
  45. RuSini Neb

    RuSini Neb Journeyman

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    /shrug priorities I guess....
     
  46. RuSini Neb

    RuSini Neb Journeyman

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    Well you had to make it obviously apparent that you had said accounts.... What part of your post required you to submit that you had 17 accounts..
    /shrug Might as well put it out there that I am the King of England too.
     
  47. RuSini Neb

    RuSini Neb Journeyman

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    Who are we to deny our friends and family diabetes and the embarrassment of being on hoarders?