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[Discussion] UO's Ability to date items?

Discussion in 'UO Rares Collector' started by Decadence, May 17, 2015.

  1. Decadence

    Decadence Lore Keeper
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    @Mesanna

    I am not sure what happened here, but is it possible your ability to identify things does not work properly?...

    In February 2012, a close friend of mine and I purchased The old and well known Nightly Spirit Collection. The museum was pretty well known, but the player hadn't been playing and decided to sell his items. The selling thread got out of hand and my friend and I went in and bought it out and resold most of the items.

    Here is the thread .. http://stratics.com/community/threads/huge-rares-collection-sale.261429/page-2

    On that thread you can see Exceptional Robe Crafted By The Black One [blessed] on Nails bid 5 threads down.

    Here is what the robe looks like.

    [​IMG]

    I loved the robe, and no one had offered what I believed it was worth, so I kept it. I have worn it once in a while since.

    The other day, I decided to gift this robe to the wonderful robe collector @Dregg who is a wonderful person in our community.

    While in Mesanna's presence, he asked if she knew any history on the robe. From my understanding, she told him it was not a seer or event item and the item was dated as 4/16/13 and made by a rogue EM.

    That is impossible, I know where I got the robe, there is proof in the very thread where I purchased that very collection. (Note the date) Why does this matter? It matters because, had I sold this robe instead of gifted this robe, and I told the person that it came from the very old Nightly Spirit collection, my word and reputation would have been tainted. (not to mention my whole UO world is history of rares)

    @Mesanna I am not trying to create waves, but please see if there is a problem with your identifying program. The data does not seem to be 100% accurate?

    -Lady Decadence
     
  2. Deaol

    Deaol Certifiable
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    There has been so many forged items made over the last few years by EMs its unthinkable. I purchased some (what I thought was seer made) (blessed) armor pieces only to find out they were made by an EM in 2012. This again happened to me last year when i found out some shipwrecked (blessed) items I had purchased were EM made also. There are and were some EMs whom were part of the game and community back in the day and DO know the seer storylines and items that were created, so it is very possible even this robe was recreated. It is a real friggin' shame.
     
  3. Decadence

    Decadence Lore Keeper
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    I have had it since Feb 2012 though. and she dated it 2013....
     
  4. Restless

    Restless Certifiable
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    did you transfer it at all? possibly changed the item id to when it was tranferred?
     
  5. Decadence

    Decadence Lore Keeper
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    I did right after I bought the Nightly Spirit collection, it was transfered February 2012 to Atlantic It is possible I have transfered it when I transfered to different rares fests though, I like to show off my clothing.

    It should be specified though that its not creation date, its transfer date if that is the case...

    That is an interesting point, when was the last rares fest?
     
  6. drewster513

    drewster513 Lore Keeper
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    Europa fest was Feb 2013 I think
     
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  7. Decadence

    Decadence Lore Keeper
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    Very likely I transferred it during fests to show off. Transfer dates wouldn't be creation dates then and it should be specified if that is the case. I think I have attended every rares fest with Decadence and usually pick some of my rare clothes to take with me
     
  8. BrianFreud

    BrianFreud Lead Wiki Mod & Doer of Crazy Things
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    At a dev meet and greet a while back - maybe the Chessie one? - something like this came up. They were asking for ideas for future gifts/additions/vet rewards, and I suggested a tool to let us find out the originating shard for an item. I'd suggested it would be helpful for things like colored Mesanna pies, as we basically have no clue which color(s) came from which shards, or the easter baskets, which took a few years before we figured out which baskets came from which shards. In response, Mesanna stated that it wasn't possible, that the creation date, originating shard, and original internal item ID were lost whenever an item is transferred to a new shard, with the new shard giving a new internal ID, and the the originating shard not being stored anywhere, and the creation date being set to the date of the transfer.

    I did not ask it at the time, but looking at item properties in a runUO shard, the creator of an item *is* stored, but I would imagine that that is also reset to the transferring character when a transfer is done - the character ID of the original creator is stored on the original shard, so that ID would be meaningless on the new shard, therefore I'd guess that also would need to be reset to something else, and the transferring character seems the most likely.

    Elsewhere, the devs have also stated that items do not store the original hue, only the current hue. RunUO's item properties support this as well. This is why they've said it's not possible to make a "undye" tool to allow event/artifact items to be set back to their original hues.

    That said, any time I hear someone say that any dev or GM stated that "so and so created this", or that they stated definitively when an item was created, I have to question it. If that creation date, shard, hue, creator, and ID are not stored on transfer, then what are the devs looking at to make such a statement?
     
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  9. Angel of Sonoma

    Angel of Sonoma Certifiable
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    Just guessing but ... all items are stored in a database. Each database record has a "Last Update" timestamp (timestamp field contains a date & time). I'd venture to say Mesanna looks up the item id in the database to get the date.
     
  10. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Deca I don't think anyone is questioning your authenticity. It's my understanding that items do indeed get a new item ID when transferred and that's why they can't delete certain items back when that dupe was happening. I could have misunderstood but I don't think so. Mesanna probably looked at the last transfer info for the robe and that's the ID she got. Try not to worry too much about it. It is a wonderful gift and I doubt it'll be in anyone elses hands until the day UO closes it's doors.
     
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  11. Xavier-Catskills

    Xavier-Catskills Seasoned Veteran

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    Dang, thought this could be a fun new game. Once a month mesanna looks at 1/2/3 of a kind items and determines if they are fakes while the audience bids on the results.
     
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  12. Decadence

    Decadence Lore Keeper
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    This made me LOL

    @Flutter Thank you :heart:
     
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  13. Dregg

    Dregg Certifiable
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    THIS !!!
     
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  14. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    If Mesanna is telling players an item has been created by a corrupt EM when she in fact made a mistake discounting transfer info thats a problem in my book. What your saying is that mesannas publicly talked about method for dating methods has no bearing. Its should probably be important to her to confirm information that may void some of her past judgements of items like these. The pre-patch shipwreck items come to mind. What your saying is her official response that these were created by corrupt EMs because of ID creation date could be wrong as well?
     
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  15. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    I don't understand the question, I just swore I read somewhere that when items are transferred they get a new ID. I could be very wrong about it as I can't offer source documentation.
     
  16. Scribbles

    Scribbles Babbling Loonie
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    My complete and total assumption:

    Once an item has been transferred it receives a new id from what ive learned. This is the problem with transferring items and why certain items become non vendorable. The item ids are given out per shard and not as whole of the game. so when an item gets transfered it recieves a new id and sometimes that ID doesnt agree with being vendorable probably because the ID already exists on that shard.

    As far as what information @Mesanna can see and how accurate it is? Who knows. All we can do is assume she is right because she should be. However, in my personal opinion there are people in the community that i would put my trust in to identify/date an item far before i would ask @Mesanna about it. She has so much going on i doubt she can keep tabs on every item released by rouge EMs, or even herself. I mean just this year think of all the "mistakes" EMs gave as drops.

    UO's history and database keeping has always been taken care of by members of the community. Think of all the player websites and stratics material that is the only reference we have for the game. Ive always wished the game took better care of its history, but i think the community has done a pretty good job of it. People like @Decadence @Petra Fyde @Manticore @brianfreud2 @Pampa DH @Nails Warstein and many others have devoted countless hours to making sure the history of UO has been preserved in some way.

    I would assume @Mesanna made a mistake on dating this item due to the transfer bug/problem.

    of course, these are all assumptions of a regular player that knows nothing of whats really going on... :)
     
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  17. Decadence

    Decadence Lore Keeper
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    @Smoot is right on to the reason I put this thread up. I know that @Dregg does not question my word on where and when I got this item. @Mesanna however, gave an exact "creation date"... a date that is over a year after my acquisition of the item. This thread isn't really about the robe in itself, but the fact that if Mesanna is stating creation dates on items that have been reset due to transfers or some other means, we have to question whether we really know what items are rogue em items, and which are seer, or bugged etc. It is wondered whether they have an accurate way to detect this, as obviously in this particular case, the info on the date created at least, was incorrect.
     
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  18. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    the question is, does mesanna realize that theres no difference between what she can can tell is a creation date vrs a transfer date. if she does, why is she telling people items that have a new id due to transfer have been created by corrupt EMs?
     
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