1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Update: Crystal Ball of Pet Summoning and PvP

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Guest, Mar 4, 2008.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hail and Well Met,

    We want to thank everyone for giving us your input on the Crystal Ball of Pet Summoning and its current use in PvP. After assessing your feedback, we have decided that the following adjustments are needed:

    * Pet summoning balls should unhide the summoner when attempting to summon her pet.
    * Pet summoning balls should have a couple second casting animation with the chance to disrupt like other spellcasting.
    * Pet summoning balls should have a reuse delay of 15 seconds.
    * Pet summoning balls cannot be used while in animal form.

    We feel these changes should balance the Crystal Ball of Pet Summoning in PvP while having minimal impact in PvM. QA is currently reviewing these changes internally. Once the changes pass internal review, they should appear on a public Test Center for an upcoming publish.

    Once these changes are on Test Center, please be sure to send us your feedback on these changes.

    Good gaming!
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thank you very much for the Update, Leurocian!

    Keep up the good work, UO Team! <3
     
  3. Wait a minute here... You listened to concerns from the UO community, then you had discussions to come up with an educated solution?!?

    Who are you and what have you done with UO's developers!!?!!?

    Good Job. [​IMG]
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thank you for listening and acting.

    Only issue I have is with a 15s delay. Seems short, as people typically drop their pets on a person until the target manages to gain some ground and then the tamer drops the pets again. 15s seems a small enough window to make little difference to that. 30s would seem better and still have zero impact on PvM.

    But hopefully that will emerge during testing.
     
  5. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,271
    Likes Received:
    120
    <blockquote><hr>

    Hail and Well Met,

    We want to thank everyone for giving us your input on the Crystal Ball of Pet Summoning and its current use in PvP. After assessing your feedback, we have decided that the following adjustments are needed:

    * Pet summoning balls should unhide the summoner when attempting to summon her pet.
    * Pet summoning balls should have a couple second casting animation with the chance to disrupt like other spellcasting.
    * Pet summoning balls should have a reuse delay of 15 seconds.
    * Pet summoning balls cannot be used while in animal form.

    We feel these changes should balance the Crystal Ball of Pet Summoning in PvP while having minimal impact in PvM. QA is currently reviewing these changes internally. Once the changes pass internal review, they should appear on a public Test Center for an upcoming publish.

    Once these changes are on Test Center, please be sure to send us your feedback on these changes.

    Good gaming!

    [/ QUOTE ]Thats great and all but the changes you want to impliment are aimed at the symptoms and not the cause of why you made the changes in the first place. Its the super dragon thats overpowered,not the summoning balls,or animal form. Tamers get a buff and other templates get the nerf stick to make things balanced?
     
  6. Kurgan

    Kurgan Guest

    * Pet summoning balls cannot be used while in animal form.
    So a person summons their pet, then goes into animal form?
     
  7. Dank

    Dank Guest

    Those changes sound just about right. Should provide balance back to pvp though I am on the receiving end of the new dragons. Thx devs
     
  8. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,271
    Likes Received:
    120
    <blockquote><hr>

    * Pet summoning balls cannot be used while in animal form.
    So a person summons their pet, then goes into animal form?

    [/ QUOTE ]Of course there will always be work-arounds.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Hail and Well Met,

    We want to thank everyone for giving us your input on the Crystal Ball of Pet Summoning and its current use in PvP. After assessing your feedback, we have decided that the following adjustments are needed:

    * Pet summoning balls should unhide the summoner when attempting to summon her pet.
    * Pet summoning balls should have a couple second casting animation with the chance to disrupt like other spellcasting.
    * Pet summoning balls should have a reuse delay of 15 seconds.
    * Pet summoning balls cannot be used while in animal form.

    We feel these changes should balance the Crystal Ball of Pet Summoning in PvP while having minimal impact in PvM. QA is currently reviewing these changes internally. Once the changes pass internal review, they should appear on a public Test Center for an upcoming publish.

    Once these changes are on Test Center, please be sure to send us your feedback on these changes.

    Good gaming!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Pls be sure to give us pet summon balls on TC!!!!!![​IMG]
     
  10. Excellent!

    "The community needs a game... but the game needs a community..."

    * GO DEVS *
     
  11. First of all, L., thank you for keeping us in the loop.

    <blockquote><hr>

    Its the super dragon thats overpowered,not the summoning balls,or animal form. Tamers get a buff and other templates get the nerf stick to make things balanced?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Complaints about tamers in PvP considerable pre-date the Greater Dragons.

    So I think maybe they decided it was an issue with more than just one pet?

    I haven't fought a Greater Dragon in PvP yet, so hey it might be just as uber as everyone thinks it is.

    However, other pets that other people complained about I found to be effective, but over-rated, generally. Overcome-able.

    Might be different this time but.....I think that, based on the complaints pre-dating the Greater Dragon, they must've figured it was a broader issue, and decided to address it as such.

    -Galen's player
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Works for me and I'm a pvp tamer. But can you guy please review the use of discord in fel??

    Blue bard disco's blue tamers pets. Bard does not flag grey, tamer attacks bard, bard dies, tamer is now a criminal and or murderer. This is not fair. Bard initiated combat by use of discord. Bard should flag grey. Thank you [​IMG]
     
  13. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,271
    Likes Received:
    120
    <blockquote><hr>

    First of all, L., thank you for keeping us in the loop.

    <blockquote><hr>

    Its the super dragon thats overpowered,not the summoning balls,or animal form. Tamers get a buff and other templates get the nerf stick to make things balanced?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Complaints about tamers in PvP considerable pre-date the Greater Dragons.

    So I think maybe they decided it was an issue with more than just one pet?

    I haven't fought a Greater Dragon in PvP yet, so hey it might be just as uber as everyone thinks it is.

    However, other pets that other people complained about I found to be effective, but over-rated, generally. Overcome-able.

    Might be different this time but.....I think that, based on the complaints pre-dating the Greater Dragon, they must've figured it was a broader issue, and decided to address it as such.

    -Galen's player

    [/ QUOTE ]I would rather face 2 bakes or a rune beetle,mare combo than a super dragon. With the super dragon with its very high bard difficulty,I barely keep it peaced for more than 2-3 seconds at 240(2x120) skill.
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Wonderful news, thanks for the update Leurocian [​IMG]

    Wenchy
     
  15. Thank you very much!

    That item has been giving tamers a black eye for years!
     
  16. <blockquote><hr>

    Thank you for listening and acting.

    Only issue I have is with a 15s delay. Seems short, as people typically drop their pets on a person until the target manages to gain some ground and then the tamer drops the pets again. 15s seems a small enough window to make little difference to that. 30s would seem better and still have zero impact on PvM.

    But hopefully that will emerge during testing.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    2 second summoning time and no target cursor, so you can't precast to avoid the 2 second cast time. I think the cast time fixes the issue you're bringing up.
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I have one, small, concern, and that's with the 'casting animation'.

    The reason we suggested an emote above the head (like throwing a bola) was because if a caster is mounted there are no 'casting animations'.

    If the caster summons a greater (elder? please?) dragon, all will see the summons because the caster has to be on foot. But a rune beetle summoned by a caster seated on a mare is still going to arrive unannounced.
     
  18. <blockquote><hr>

    Thats great and all but the changes you want to impliment are aimed at the symptoms and not the cause of why you made the changes in the first place. Its the super dragon thats overpowered,not the summoning balls,or animal form. Tamers get a buff and other templates get the nerf stick to make things balanced?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    WRONG!

    The super dragon is the symptom and the pet ball is the problem. You've just committed design malpractice!

    With the pet ball being balanced, a good pvper can counter a super dragon.
     
  19. I agree an emote is needed. I think casting animation is also needed.
     
  20. Sir_Bolo

    Sir_Bolo Sage
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Messages:
    645
    Likes Received:
    88
    <blockquote><hr>

    * Pet summoning balls should have a couple second casting animation with the chance to disrupt like other spellcasting.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Will the tamer also freeze in place while he is summoning his pet (like Magery spellcasting), or is this a spellcasting ability that can be used while running (like Holy Light etc.)?
     
  21. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,271
    Likes Received:
    120
    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Thats great and all but the changes you want to impliment are aimed at the symptoms and not the cause of why you made the changes in the first place. Its the super dragon thats overpowered,not the summoning balls,or animal form. Tamers get a buff and other templates get the nerf stick to make things balanced?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    WRONG!

    The super dragon is the symptom and the pet ball is the problem. You've just committed design malpractice!

    With the pet ball being balanced, a good pvper can counter a super dragon.

    [/ QUOTE ]Then tell me how I am "WRONG" if you would. The Dev's would not be looking into changes if the super dragon wasn't introduced.
     
  22. I already did. Did you read it?

    You're wrong because the dragon is perfectly counterable when it can't be repeatedly summoned on a dismounted target. Dismount still has some issues (especially from stealth), but these summoning changes prevent the dragon from being highly abuseable.

    Any high-end pet is highly abuseable with the current pet ball...

    Beetle/bake is more powerful than the new dragon when it comes to killing power.

    pack of frenzied ostards can be equally as devastating, but also equally as counterable.

    A pair of bakes can be effective if run well.

    All are counterable.

    You can cry nerf, or you can adapt. Good pvpers adapt and bring up broken game mechanics (like the pet ball) without getting overly emotional about them. Crying "NERF" on the dragons is kinda like crying NERF on the explosion spell because someone combo'd explosion with other spells on you and you didn't know how to counter it.
     
  23. I also agree that the summoner should be frozen in place while summoning.
     
  24. Thanks a lot to Leurocian and devs!

    At this time we were given enough time to to discuss on this issue ourselves and to make feedbacks so that we could feel that we also contribute to improve the game.
     
  25. i still think that the mark has been missed on this one. I like the fact that a person has a castin time that can be disrupted while summoning a pet. that will make it harder for dismounted people to summon swampies and mount.

    However the issue of super dragons and ninja form has not been solved. The whole purpose of having these creatures take 5 slots is to place the owner on foot and a disadvantage. Ninja forms are a work around that most likely was unintended. The solution is simply to make all forms you change into take one follower slot. This would prevent people with these super dragons from speeding out when in danger. Ninjas dont need follower slots for the most part so having animal form take 1 follower will not harm the character class and would balance super dragons in PvP
     
  26. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    4,699
    Likes Received:
    200
    I don't have a problem with the changes, and I am a pvp tamer. My only slight quibble is that the 15 second timer is too long. I think 10 seconds would have been more appropriate, but that isn't a huge problem (people don't realize that in pvp even 10 seconds is an eternity, you can do an awful lot in 10 seconds). I don't have a problem with the emote.

    The only question I have is, if you have two pet balls, do they each have their own distinct timer, is the timer per pet, or per ball, or per character? I would like to see it per pet. The reason for this is if you are using more than one pet, having a 15 second delay between summons will probably mean that one of your pets will die if you are in a ticklish situation. If it was per ball then you could get around it by carrying more than one ball, and you wouldn't want that.

    For what it's worth though, I pvp a lot on Cats, and I have never even seen a ninja tamer on Cats, nor have I witnessed the problems with ninja tamers and animal forms there. I think every tamer in UO is being nerfed because of a problem that is Siege specific - which is exactly what I thought was going to happen a while back when I first responded to the yelling about this problem.

    And Leurocian, if you think this is going to make the 733t pvp whiners on these boards happy, you are sadly mistaken. The people crying about tamers on these boards will not be happy until tamers simply aren't viable in any situation, pvp or pvm, and they have effectively been removed from the game, and once that happens they'll move on to their next victim...
     
  27. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    * Pet summoning balls should have a reuse delay of 15 seconds.


    [/ QUOTE ] No - players should have the delay, not the pet balls. Else people will just carry a bunch of them to avoid the timer.
     
  28. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    4,699
    Likes Received:
    200
    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    * Pet summoning balls should have a reuse delay of 15 seconds.


    [/ QUOTE ] No - players should have the delay, not the pet balls. Else people will just carry a bunch of them to avoid the timer.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    I think it should be per pet, or players running more than one pet will have real difficulties.
     
  29. <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    * Pet summoning balls should have a reuse delay of 15 seconds.


    [/ QUOTE ] No - players should have the delay, not the pet balls. Else people will just carry a bunch of them to avoid the timer.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Yeah, but just think of all the insurance you'll get when you kill them!
     
  30. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thanks for the excellent news, Leurocian!

    I look forward to roadtesting it on TC1.
     
  31. Guest

    Guest Guest

    As someone who doesn't PvP, I just want to say that these changes don't hurt/nerf me. So if it helps PvP then I have no objections.

    One, already made, suggestion...
    <blockquote><hr>


    * Pet summoning balls should unhide the summoner when attempting to summon her pet.
    * Pet summoning balls should have a couple second casting animation with the chance to disrupt like other spellcasting.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    * Pet summoning balls should have a couple second casting *emote* with the chance to disrupt like other spellcasting. (Assumming that holds them in place).

    That would kill 2 birds with one stone. The Emote will unhide any hiders and the summoning will be obvious whether the summoner is mounted or not.
     
  32. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Will the tamer also freeze in place while he is summoning his pet (like Magery spellcasting), or is this a spellcasting ability that can be used while running (like Holy Light etc.)?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The summoner will freeze in place.
     
  33. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    * Pet summoning balls should have a reuse delay of 15 seconds.


    [/ QUOTE ] No - players should have the delay, not the pet balls. Else people will just carry a bunch of them to avoid the timer.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The delay is on the player, not an individual pet ball. Just wanted to clarify that.
     
  34. <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    * Pet summoning balls should have a reuse delay of 15 seconds.


    [/ QUOTE ] No - players should have the delay, not the pet balls. Else people will just carry a bunch of them to avoid the timer.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Good point!
     
  35. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Messages:
    2,354
    Likes Received:
    4
    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    * Pet summoning balls should have a reuse delay of 15 seconds.


    [/ QUOTE ] No - players should have the delay, not the pet balls. Else people will just carry a bunch of them to avoid the timer.

    [/ QUOTE ]The delay is on the player, not an individual pet ball. Just wanted to clarify that.

    [/ QUOTE ]5 pets, 75 seconds to get them all. That is a little ridiculous I think.

    It should be on the pet, not the player. There's already a 2 second delay for the player between pets, and a limit of 5 pets they can summon.
    Add in the ability to be disrupted and the inability to move during the 2 seconds per summon, and making it a per-player time seems very unnecessary.
    Per pet I can understand, and think is good... I just think 15 seconds is too much until pets start listening to their owners better.
     
  36. I like it bro! I like it alot, I'm so estatic you guys actually listened to us! You rock for the moment. Don't listen to these people cry about over nerfing, the pet ball is a pvm tool and your making it that once again. I applaude you guys. If your boss asks what you guys have done for the game tell them you made a serious contribution that will keep me and many others here for at least a bit longer, I know those of us on SIEGE PERILOUS will definitly be a bit more happy.
     
  37. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    The delay is on the player, not an individual pet ball. Just wanted to clarify that.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Why couldn't you do something like that to the bag of sending instead of making them essentially useless and ending expeditions to the Ilshenar dungeons and Terathan Keep?
     
  38. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    4,699
    Likes Received:
    200
    Would it be possible to allow tamers to get insurance gold in pvp now?
     
  39. I agree... pet balls are definitely out of control on siege.
     
  40. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The pet summoning delay should be based on followers of the pet being summoned, it should not take me 75 seconds to summons my 5 pack.
     
  41. Rykus

    Rykus Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    It should be on the pet, not the player. There's already a 2 second delay for the player between pets, and a limit of 5 pets they can summon.
    Add in the ability to be disrupted and the inability to move during the 2 seconds per summon, and making it a per-player time seems very unnecessary.
    Per pet I can understand, and think is good... I just think 15 seconds is too much until pets start listening to their owners better.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Perhaps tamers should stop using the pet ball as a safety net and take the hit (ALL .1 of them) to the pets skills if they get in over their head and the pet dies. This fix was targeted squarely at pets in PvP and it looks like it should fix the problem quite effectively.

    Again, maybe it's time for tamers to once again be careful with their pets, kinda like we were before bonding. Don't send them in on suicide runs just because you can yoink them out at will.

    I do like the fact that these changes will really only affect field PvP but still allow tamers to have their places in a siege or in defense of a position, like in factions. Very nice to see *something* being done besides listening to the sound of silence from the dev team. Very nice indeed. Another few dozen situations like these over the next few months may begin restoring my faith in UO's longevity, but I'm not holding my breath.
     
  42. Rykus

    Rykus Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    The pet summoning delay should be based on followers of the pet being summoned, it should not take me 75 seconds to summons my 5 pack.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    This is something I could agree with. Maybe make the timer 5 seconds per control slot..? A 5-pack of frenzied ostards would take 25 seconds, where a beetle would take 15. Sounds good to me.
     
  43. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,299
    Likes Received:
    60
  44. <blockquote><hr>

    Why couldn't you do something like that to the bag of sending instead of making them essentially useless and ending expeditions to the Ilshenar dungeons and Terathan Keep?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    How did people like you even manage to play UO before the bags? I can run from Brit bank to the Gargoyle city in the center of Ilshenar in 2 minutes, tops.
     
  45. <blockquote><hr>

    * Pet summoning balls should have a couple second casting animation with the chance to disrupt like other spellcasting.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I have a problem with this part. I've expressed it before, but since there has been no back and forth, you missed it.

    Here goes again.

    If your intent is to eliminate the use of petballs as an offensive tactic in PvP, these changes will do that.

    However, that particular change will also handicap players who use petballs defensively as protection against constant dismounting.

    Example: I'm running around on Siege on my dexxer. I'm dismounted by a hidden archer, then ganked by his hidden pals (yes, hiding is a problem on Siege...). Now, one of them will certainly target my pet so that I can't remount. What I do currently, is run for a few seconds then use a petball to call a pet from the stable, remount, and run for it.

    This proposed change means that defensive manuver will no longer be employable and dismounting will equal certain death every time.

    I don't think you meant to overpower hide/stealth and dismount even more did you?

    The change I proposed was this. Instead of a casting delay, increase the time between the summoning and the point at which a pet can be given a command. Currently, there is about a 1 second delay between summoning the pet and having them respond to an all kill. Increase that delay so that pets can't be used offensively as part of a combo. Then, you can leave the defensive use in place.

    As currently designed, you are going to fix one problem and make two others worse.
     
  46. Rykus

    Rykus Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Why couldn't you do something like that to the bag of sending instead of making them essentially useless and ending expeditions to the Ilshenar dungeons and Terathan Keep?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    How did people like you even manage to play UO before the bags? I can run from Brit bank to the Gargoyle city in the center of Ilshenar in 2 minutes, tops.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Two minutes, pffft.. I ran the same route and it took me over ONE HUNDRED, TWENTY seconds!!! That's a LIFETIME in UO. Get a little perspective man!!!

    /sarcasm
     
  47. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,299
    Likes Received:
    60
    The pet balls will help relieve some of the pressure.
     
  48. Rykus

    Rykus Guest

    It seems like hiding/stealth need to be 'fixed' next then. This change accomplishes exactly what it intended to. If it adversely affects another (already) screwed up system, then THAT system needs fixed as well.

    Let's see what happens there. This could be the beginning of UO actually being fixed overall, or yet another little crumb tossed to people just enough to keep the $13 a month rolling in for as long as possible with minimal effort. I hope it's the former...
     
  49. Rykus

    Rykus Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    The pet balls will help relieve some of the pressure.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    There's a joke waiting here that's sure to violate the RoC...

    [​IMG]
     
  50. The problem with that logic Rykus is that on Siege we have been complaining about overpowered pets for years. Only when these dragons were introduced and prodo shard players started to scream did it get looked at.

    Hide/Stealth isn't currently a problem on production shards because of passive reveal. It is a problem on Siege. Our chances of getting a fix to something that is a Siege only issue are slim to none.

    That is why this petball issue needs to be done correctly and not in a way that makes things worse on Siege.