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Update needed for 2D/CC

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Sneaky Que, Feb 17, 2015.

  1. Sneaky Que

    Sneaky Que Babbling Loonie
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    The 2D client needs an option for higher game window resolutions than 800x600. Even just one extra option of 1024x768 would be great. This update has been needed for AGES and is easy to do. The only reason the Devs have for not doing it is because of the EC, but the problem is that many old players such as myself find the EC repulsive. Most former players that come back give the EC a go and find it to be frankly insulting to UO. 2D is UO, the EC isn't. As such the 2D client needs to be paid the respect it thoroughly deserves by being given this much needed update.
     
  2. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    This has been requested many times and shot down each and every time.
     
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  3. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Sadly true.

    Wonder how many loyal UO players have left the game because of that small game window we CC users have. On a desktop wide screen display it's ridiculously small at the monitor default resolutions.

    We have no other option than the EC which we find to be a bad experience, so without a good to use User Interface to reach all the fun content of Ultima Online, people leave and take their game money elsewhere.

    A game only keeps players when it has good content, which UO certainly has, and a good user interface. That is simple reality.
     
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  4. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    I would love for someone to post a picture of the classic client running on a 4k monitor.
     
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  5. Angel of Sonoma

    Angel of Sonoma Certifiable
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    I would love to see the screen resolution changed. Devs, can you tell us why there is resistance to making this change?
     
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  6. arkiu

    arkiu Journeyman

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    This really needs to happen. With all due respect to the devs and all but the EC is awful. Amazing to me that people prefer it over CC.

    I really hope they increase the CC game window resolution. That in and of itself will make the game appear more modern and helluva lot better looking than EC. Also, maybe remove some of the updated artwork in the CC since the EC came out i.e., balrons, daemons. Anyone remember what those things use to look like? Used to look a lot more fitting in the game. They look super awkward and jagged now but hey, that's my personal opinion.

    Also, maybe they can update the interface for the CC (not a whole lot!). For example, I would like a macro bar that locks in place like the CC client has. The paperdoll and back pack needs to stay the same! I'm just suggesting small things to make playing more practical, nothing visual needs to be changed. I also like how the macro bar has cool down timers and makes it easier to set in game macros.

    Really hope this doesn't get shot down.
     
  7. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    It think everyone likes many of the features of EC, but the major complaint is its just so ugly.

    imo they should have stuck with the classic graphics but updated to EC interface. (or maybe a simpler, less confusing one with just some of best features)

    UO is a retro game. definitely not its forte to try to be something its not. if UOs goal was to be to compete with modern games in terms of looks / interface thats pretty much a battle destined to fail.
     
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  8. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    A long time ago there was a 1024x768 hack, which I myself never tried, but apparently it did well what the Devs then could not accomplish. Current Devs have said it can't be done, but after all, this team is so far removed that who knows how much they know how old code works. I'd rather hear "We don't know" than excuses.

    "How could they? Your scientists have forgotten how everything works!" - Beverly Crusher
     
  9. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    What the bigger screen "hack" does if it's really called a hack..just makes the screen size bigger but when you run the edges of the screen are black. I'm pretty sure the game wasn't coded to capture enough of the screen to make it resizeable.. Sort of how in the EC yea you can make it bigger but don't see people on screen till they get within a certain amount of tiles. Even though you can see further in picture. Go full screen and you'll see why..it becomes all discombobulated and pixelated.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. arkiu

    arkiu Journeyman

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    Not to sound like a jerk or anything but maybe instead of hiring a player event coordinator we should hire a bad @$$ programmer who understands and can manipulate some of the more outdated code. Just sayin. But what do I know...
     
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  11. Thrakkar

    Thrakkar Slightly Crazed
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    So you know the architectural design of the client? I can hardly believe that. If it would be really that easy, they would have done it already...

    It is not about understanding the code or being a bad @$$ programmer.
    The architectural design of a piece of software can be that worse, that you have dependencies all over the place. A small change then usually means that you open a can of worms. Which could go even that far, that you would have to basically completely rewrite the software (in extreme cases, though).

    You got something wrong here.
    The only reason the EC exists is, because the CC is a digital pile of mikado sticks, which everyone is afraid to touch, because it would fall apart, even when doing a not so small change.
     
  12. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    I have to agree.

    I started moaning at a couple of new guild recruit as I could tell they using a non allowed UOAssist equivalent. When i told the two that they're not allowed to use these programs and must stick to UOAssist only on Classic client, they said to me about the resolution problem which the non allowed UOAssist equivalent addresses.

    This was new to me, I paused and thought, hmm fair point i guess, ok.

    I think i'm the only Classic Client user who only uses UOAssist with a low screen resolution.

    The client is no longer conducive to modern screen sizes and resolutions.
     
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  13. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    I can't say for certain, since as I said I never used it, but it seemed to work just as want, hacking the code to gather and display information further out. It wasn't just a zoom.
     
  14. Lord Obsidian

    Lord Obsidian Journeyman
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    For the people with the very high resolution screens, maybe a simple "doublescan" option would do the trick. This would not require any zoom functions nor big changes to the cc client core (my guess), it would just draw double pixels in both dimensions, resulting in 1600x1200 for the gameplay area. Could this be a workable compromise without opening the can of worms too far?
     
  15. BeaIank

    BeaIank Babbling Loonie
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    One doesn't simply meddle with legacy code. :p
    No sane programmer would accept the task unless a huge amount of money and time are being offered. I know I wouldn't.
    I had recently to meddle with 8 years old code that I wrote, and I ended up rewriting the whole thing because trying to change it was breaking everything.

    Something similar would likely happen here. When the base was written, we had slow processors and very little ram available. Optimizations and compromises were taken for sure, and those two are a nightmare when it comes to code maintenance.
     
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  16. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Hence why I'm sure they have repeatedly tried to get rid of the 2d client and offer alternatives.
     
  17. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    And fail miserably at every turn! They should have revamped/rewrote the classic client to be more stable, less glitchy, with more optimizations on the backend. Instead they made a pixelated isometric/Fake 3D client that has so many bugs it's not worth playing. How do you justify 12.99 a month when you log into a game that's 17 yes 17 years old and the client isn't stable/ or 100% functional. I mean for christs sake..I have characters frozen on my screen in limbo when they have been off screen for minutes, I have dismounted naked men running around...it's an absolute joke. The fields/graphics are pixelated at the highest settings in windowed mode, you have to pull out your Mr. monopoly monocle just to see what's in your pack in grid mode, in legacy mode you attempt to drag something and another item drags..but yet it's still sitting around as an attempt at a main client to grab newbie players. Ftp low budget Asian games alone are miles past it..why would anyone play it? Nostalgia? World depth? Shroud has been in development for a year and is already deeper gameplay, less buggy, and nicer looking..in freaking PRE ALPHA!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  18. Ultimaholic

    Ultimaholic Adventurer

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    [​IMG]


    I play in 1280 x 900 as you can set it at any size you wish. At a point tho you get black corners that don`t load but it is still HUGELY better than that postage stamp 800 x 600. Any excuse as to why it is the year 2015 and somehow is not possible, I would very much like to know why. It is stuff like this that takes people away from official servers. So simple,the simple things that get ignored time and time again. Gets a payer pissed after awhile.

    *edit*
    I shoulda mentioned, this is on a 22 inch monitor
     
    #18 Ultimaholic, Feb 17, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2015
  19. arkiu

    arkiu Journeyman

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    yea Ultimaholic that looks pretty awesome, even with the black void... I want that.
     
  20. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    In theory that should work, as long as the video card can support a resolution exactly half that of the monitor's. What we CCers would like, though, is a 1024x768 window that actually shows a little bit more of the game, even if the pixels remain small.
     
  21. Lord Obsidian

    Lord Obsidian Journeyman
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    I am pretty well aware and wouldn't dare to tamper with the core code either, hence my suggestion to only add something like a final stage draw doubler.
    I don't think we have the dev resources left to deeply tamper with the CC core code anymore - leaving aside that no half way sane programmer wants to dig into this... ;)
     
  22. BeaIank

    BeaIank Babbling Loonie
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    Some sort of shader or image processor routine like SAI, Eagle or just plain pixel resize would do wonders for that tiny, little window there, yes.
    It is pretty much impossible to see it when you are running a 4K resolution. :p
     
  23. Lord Obsidian

    Lord Obsidian Journeyman
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    Being a die hard CC player myself for 17+ years, I would love to see this happen;
    the doublescan suggestion is only some sort of realistic compromise for me.
     
  24. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    No programmer is more than halfway sane to start with, so just find one that is wrapped a little less tightly than most, thinks outside the box, and let him loose on the CC.

    What language is the CC written in anyways?
     
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  25. BeaIank

    BeaIank Babbling Loonie
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    We may not be exactly sane to do our jobs (okay, the scales are more tipped towards insane), but I don't think I have met someone insane enough on my 16 years on the field that would be crazy to delve into that kind of legacy code. :p
    And it is very likely written on C++, with a level of code documentation I don't even want to think about.
     
  26. Boba

    Boba Adventurer
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    I haven't logged into UO since getting a new PC/Monitor for the holidays. The recent thread about the IDOC houses made me want to log in and make sure my stuff was still there.

    Here's what my screen looks like on my new 24" widescreen monitor with 1920x1080 resolution:

    resolutionex.PNG


    Really??!?!?? It's 2015 if I'm not mistaken. Why am I paying for this garbage?

    There is an unapproved 3rd-party program that can increase my resolution, and I'm seriously considering using it if I am to continue playing this game (even if I risk a banning).
    What's the point in paying for a game that is unplayable in its current state using modern hardware?

    If this app/program (that shall not be named, google it) can increase my resolution to an acceptable amount, with zero changes to the legacy code, why can't Broadsword do it?
     
    #26 Boba, Feb 17, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2015
  27. Lord Obsidian

    Lord Obsidian Journeyman
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    What I saw within the client, I assume it's C++ VC8 (=Visual Studio 2005)
     
  28. arkiu

    arkiu Journeyman

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    I really hope someone out there is insane enough and genius enough to do it without opening a "can of worms". However ridiculous a task though, I'm sure it can be done. I triple dog dare someone to do it. Please....

    And yea Boba that looks insanely small on your 1920x1080.
     
  29. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    You should see how ugly it looks on a 48" LED HDTV with at 1920x1080....
     
  30. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Lousy documentation... that will add the requirement for a masochistic streak a couple kilometers wide. This would be the rough quality to find. :eek2:
     
  31. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    This is the reason WHY the EC looks ugly. It's using the classic graphics and does not have a proper method to scale them outside of their native resolution. The instant you go outside CC-native zoom level in the EC everything turns into a mess. The Mobs are lesser quality because they LOWERED the KR resolution for mobiles (characters and creatures) when they released the EC. That is what the High Resolution Update was SUPPOSED to be about. Unfortunately, the Team, EA, Broadsword, whoever dropped the ball over the course of YEARS now and now that update is apparently indefinitely "back burnered".

    The CC has a "good User Interface"... is that why people have used an external hack program (UOA) for over a decade now? Is that why there are repeated calls for EC features to be ported into the CC?

    I think at this point, other than content and bug fixes, the CC should NOT advance any further. If people are so attached to it because it's "retro" then let them deal with the issues that "retro" brings to the client as well.
     
    #31 Dermott of LS, Feb 17, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2015
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  32. The Craftsman

    The Craftsman Lore Master
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    Sayeth the EC Fanboi
     
  33. Larisa

    Larisa Reporting Manager
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    I use CC without UO Assist...the only feature on that that I ever used was the self-dress macro. I have played the game for so long I'm just used to doing things the way I do them and don't need any help from outside programs.

    I don't play on a huge monitor, only 17 inch screen, but I love the big black areas, everything goes there and off my game window. I guess I'm just used to it and think it's fine the way it is lol.
     
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  34. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
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    Ultima Online started out with a modified version of the Ultima VII engine.. which was created in 1991.

    Interesting piece of trivia.. When the project first started it was called "Multiplayer Ultima" or "Multima".
     
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  35. BeaIank

    BeaIank Babbling Loonie
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    Actually, it was Ultima VIII that was base for Ultima Online.
    The tile renderer engine is the same that was used in Ultima VII.
     
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  36. Arroth Thaiel

    Arroth Thaiel Seasoned Veteran
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    Dermott, you do realize that you are talking to a group of people who will never let facts get in the way of their opinions?

    Don't you?

    It's like Zogmeister trying to point out the ridiculousness of the "Trammel ruined UO" argument in the OP's other thread....

    For those who believe, reality is inconvenient.
     
  37. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
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    Yeah that sounds accurate.. it was a while back my memory ain't what it used to be.. lol
     
  38. BeaIank

    BeaIank Babbling Loonie
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    Ultima 8 ran a 320x240 isometric tile engine. They modified it for Ultima Online to run in 640x480 and 800x600.
    That probably means that the classic client has Ultima 8 code running on it, and that thought alone makes me shiver in fear. :confused:

    I wouldn't be surprised if there are Direct X 5.0 calls there too. :eek:
     
  39. The Craftsman

    The Craftsman Lore Master
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  40. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Hopefully they decide to find someone loosely wrapped enough to figure out how to modify the CC and add some UOAssist-like features to it from the EC. As of my last log in yesterday Tugsoft still hasn't patched UOAssist. It could be coming to the end of it's days and could wind up no longer useful if it's Pinco type client magician can no longer update it. That might cost us some players. Losing the limited macro scripting it provides to do a lot of the games excessive mousing processes like plant harvesting could inspire those of us with arthritis to have to give it up and stop playing. UO for me is certainly a bit of a masochistic experience even with UOAssist.

    And no Dermott, we wouldn't have to resort to the EC. Some might, but many wouldn't. We wouldn't have the good content/good client combination anymore that way from our viewpoints. The shards would just become less populated than they are now. Hopefully the Devs consider this and try to keep the half of the players who use the CC happy.
     
  41. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Meddling may well be what it will take. Depending how much of an encyclopedia sized file the client code documentation has become, it will need someone to just read it through and figure out how it works, then start carefully taking out the spaghetti and set it up as modules. To bad the CC isn't open source.
     
  42. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
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    This is probably gonna sound really dumb... but why can't CC users simply hit Alt +Enter to go full screen? I do...
     
  43. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    besides the picture looking "fuzzy" with a 32 inch monitor, i get white flashes. tried everything, cant get rid of the white periodic flashes.
     
  44. AtlanticRealtor

    AtlanticRealtor ICQ 647752375
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    I just did a Test!!
    Playing at 1024X768
    [​IMG]
     
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  45. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    If the Team came out with a new client that was high resolution, 1920x1080 compatible, 3d isometric (and not some 2.5d combination) with smooth animation and scaling, and had all the bells and whistles of the EC UI, I would drop the EC in a heartbeat. I as of yet have never been unwilling to upgrade. The only time I was unhappy with a client upgrade was going from KR to EC due to the DOWNGRADE in resolution and the loss of great looking graphics in terms of plants, house tiles, and certain objects (like the fountain).

    It's not being a fan of any particular client, my sig-linked post is STILL valid and a HEAVY critique of the EC, I'm a fan of keeping UO technologically compatible.
     
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  46. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Oh, I know, but for the sake of others who may be reading, sometimes it is necessary to call out the bad information or bad arguments.
     
  47. arkiu

    arkiu Journeyman

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    so uhhh Ultimaholic and UO Houses.... what ya doing to get that window size? definitely rough around the edges but good enough. that third party program mentioned above?
     
  48. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    I'm running a laptop with WIN 8.1 and had a problem doing this.

    Tried the full screen setting which added all of an inch to the game window on my laptop and found I couldn't change it back. Turning it off in options didn't restore it to a window and I even had a black border the relative size of the game window change around the log in windows. Wound up having to do a reinstall of the client.

    Will try it on my tower once I get it to show me more than a two second display. I'm curious what it will look like at 1960x1080.
     
  49. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    Because the maximum full screen resolution of 1024x768 is not evenly divisible into the typical LCD display, resulting in horrible pixelation. Even if you had a 4:3 monitor, if its resolution is larger than 1024x768, one pixel would be doubled while a neighbor would not, as the video card attempted to simulate half pixels. And on a typical 1920x1080 monitor, UO in full screen would become horizontally stretched out. You'd need to use a monitor with a very non-standard resolution like 2048x1536, which is evenly divisible by UO's full screen. Each pixel would be actually be drawn as four, in a 2x2 grid.
     
  50. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
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    Look.. you all know I don't do the EC versus the CC thing.. I play them both..
    so look perhaps ya'll don't understand what I'm saying.. This is on my main comp.. I run a 2009 GeForce GTX 660 not that new..

    you start here..

    [​IMG]

    Soon as CC loads and you see your game screen hit Alt+Enter..
    and you get this

    [​IMG]

    It does look a little stretched.. and maybe a little pixellated.. but it's full screen..

    Sorry it looks a little sideways I'm not that good with the camera..