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Updating Loot

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Corrupted Goblin, Aug 18, 2008.

  1. Dev's
    Its time to update the loot across the whole system.
    First things first,
    Monster loot: Monsters should carry all available items as loot. What i mean is (based on the fantasy system) Monsters carry loot because they have "killed things" in order to aquire the loot that they drop. Dragons obviously do not craft anything but they have weapons and things that they have "gathered" through killings. With this in mind they should drop all new additions to UO, such as bokutos tekagi and items like that. These items should not be limited to Tokuno.

    Secondly,
    Treasure Chest loot: This also needs to be updated to reflect the above monster changes. T-maps and SoS loot should include Tokuno items now. They also need an intensity change. I can run 10 lvl 6 t-maps in a row (which is a pain in the ars solo) and only get 1 thing worth keeping aside from the marties i get from each chest. lvl 1-3 t-maps should only drop junk and on the rare ocasion maybe something really nice but overall they should not drop the nicest stuff where as lvl 4-6 T-Maps should drop much nicer items based off of the difficulty to loot the entire chest. LVL 6 t-maps carry 60 magic items count em thats 60 so after you have cleared all of the spawn from 10 maps and sorted through 600 items your only getting 1 decent thing to sell or use.

    Treasure hunting is not the easiest proffesion to run and it should be rewarded based off of its difficulty. Comparing t-hunting to say running the gaman horn quest, t-hunting is almost a complete joke. and a waste of time.

    Feel free to converse about these changes and other loot changes you would like to see to the looting system.
     
  2. Emil Ispep

    Emil Ispep Sage
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    Treasure chest loot def needs to be looked into.. Not so sure how i feel about making all the different loot and types avaliable on every monster though.. would kinda defeat the purpose of traveling to different lands to hunt.
     
  3. My thing with forcing people to go to other lands to hunt is those lands also drop old items. and lets be honest is anyone really exploring anymore? If you like to hunt onis then you can hunt onis if you like to fight drags/Ancient wyrms/shadow wyrms they should all start dropping the same loot. they are of equal difficulty. I understand rare items or items that "spawn" in those regions. Like Bonsai seeds should only drop in tokuno. they are asian seeds and should drop there only. Cause whos going to take seeds into a dungeon in Britania? hehe. But generic items like weapons and armor that clearly could have been "lost" to a monster should start spawning elsewhere.

    To be clear i am not talking about artifacts of any kind. Martys are fine to keep dropping from para's. I think arties should only drop where they currently are.
     
  4. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    I've said it before and I'll continue to say it. The way to address loot upgrades in UO is to turn the items that drop on monsters into consumeable resources.

    The best idea I have for doing this is to create a new system that allows players to consume items and pull one random mod off the item they consume. The system would then allow players to apply these mods to some player-crafted item.

    I would have the mods wear out over time, so the system stays relevant. If the items aren't consumable, people basically end up having max mod suits with perfect weapons and then no loot is relevant anymore.

    I posted the idea in great detail a while back and it was pretty well received.

    Just buffing up the item drops on monsters just raises the bar when it comes to evaluating whether an item is good or not. It's a quick "fix", but not a sustainable solution.
     
  5. Pickaxe Pete

    Pickaxe Pete Lore Master
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    Good point, and good idea. I like it.
     
  6. Emil Ispep

    Emil Ispep Sage
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    A lil too much like WoW..

    I would rather see an "enchanting" skill added.. Maybe have it as a paraell skill to a crafting skill. If your enchanting is high enough, you can choose which mod(s) you would like to add to your weapon or armor? Or maybe a "disenchant" skill, in order to disenchant an item you were to find.

    Warriors cant be craftsmen.. =)
     
  7. That sounds like an interesting system. Maybe for another game. There is no way UO would be able to afford a hit like that. and you would still end up with people that have tons of consumables so everyone would have the best of the best.

    Monster loot can never be as good as Barbed or Valorite runic loot for a couple of reasons.
    First is 5 max properties on any loot recieved from monsters.
    Runic loot can have 6 some i beleive can even be made with 7 properties on weapons.
    Armor from runics can also (in addtion to 5 properties) get a boost from exceptional and arms lore.
    For people who dont love to run bods or farm items just to turn them around and sell them so they can then go buy the runics to create the items. Why not cut out that whole process. (this will not cut out crafters as monster loot still only recieve 5 properties) But for people who do like to go hunting and are looking for specific items let them actually find them.
     
  8. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest


    I haven't played WoW since the first year, but as far as I know WoW doesn't have a system like I proposed. The closest thing they had when I quit was enchanting, which isn't even close to as cool as my idea :)

    Enchanting gives you ingredients for recipes (stupid)

    My idea gives you mods which you can apply to player-crafted items.

    Also, WoW is built around an addiction engine where gear never wears out, but is constantly becoming obsolete. The bar is constantly raising.

    Any system for UO has to keep the bar at the same place, which my system does. Well I guess I raise the bar once, but then after that you have to replace mods on your items, so you need more mod resources. My system is sustainable without constantly adjusting the loot pool of existing content.

    Look at UO's loot system... look at how the bar has been raised with expansions to the point where people are buildings suits that no one would have expected 5 years ago.

    Look at how people complain that mosnters and treasure chests need to have their loot adjusted every couple of years. The reason is that our loot system in UO is NOT sustainable. That's why I propose a sustainable system every time this topic pops up (starting to happen about once a week)

    If the devs cave in and just bump up the loot intensity on monsters, we'll be in the exact same place, but at a higher level in another 6 months.

    Bumping up loot intensities is not the answer.
     
  9. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    The solution to all these problems is in the details.

    If people are able to get a ridiculous number of mod resources from monsters (and they could), you just have the system require a lot of mod resources to apply desirable mods to an item.

    Additionally, you adjust mod decay rates to avoid the situation you describe.

    Personally, I'm ok with people having high mod suits as long as they have to do something to maintain the suit (in my system, re-apply the mods). If you increase loot intensity, people start getting 5x max mod items as loot and the items never wear out. Since gear never leaves the system, people only view gear that improves their suit as being worth keeping. Then they come on the forums and complain about monsters dropping low-intensity loot.
     
  10. Emil Ispep

    Emil Ispep Sage
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    Yea, dont play WoW either.. but rl friends are adikted. I think its somthing like if you get an item that your character cant use, you can 'disenchant' it, and it gives some resource or some gem or somthing that can then be used to enhance or craft an item.

    When the Elder Scrolls is an MMO, thats the day i leave this world =)

    Ok prolly not, i dont have 1000's of hours anymore, lol.
     
  11. No offense to you, i actually think that would be a great system for another game, BUT it will not work for UO you would lose tons of players with a system like that. No-one is going to want to go farm and farm and farm to make themselves competable. and what about the artis? do those stay or go in your system. Unfortunatley your system is simply not viable for UO. again looks like a wonderful system for a start up game but not a fully established game.

    And you are correct about the WoW addiction engine. Its silly and thats the reason i can never play it for more than 2 months at a time.
    I am not asking for any bars to be raised just make it comperable to systems that are already in place in UO such as the Gaman Horn Quest. on that note. i do not beleive that you should not be able to get a killer 5x max property from say a LL you would only be able to get the best of the best from Hardest creatures. the ones (unless your already in a super suit) that require several players to kill, Peerless, Guantlet, and your Random ****rs like Ancient Wyrms, Yamadons, Skeletal Drags.

    Boom that solution kills two birds with one stone. more team playing and everyone is happy with gear.
     
  12. Also last problem with your system is scripters. they are every where and will NEVER go away. So now everyone is in super duper suits and its all your fault =P
     
  13. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    All all weapons must be ruin-vanq, All armor must be guarding-invulnerable, All items must break at some time. UO must go back to the AR system and magic resist should resist magic. All current artifacts should just be a named item that serves no real purpose. Item insurance must not be active. People should be able to loot corpses/others kills in fel.

    All that aside the problem is that items dont break in UO anymore Once you build the suit for a character and max out everything you need for that character you have no more reason to craft, shop or hunt for new pieces. When you build the suits for all your characters thats it you never need to get anything for that character ever again unless you been hit by a bug or exploit. Items start to seem or become sub par because you have everything you need.

    Unless you played UO preaos you would never understand how balanced the game truly was back then. Every weapon from GM-vanq had a value and every piece of armor from gm-invulnerable had its uses and value. Crafters were turning out all sorts of gear be normal clothing or plate, it all sold if it were GM or magic, players had a demand for items. Why? Items broke and or was looted/lost(decayed on corpse) or stolen. I know its hard to look past all the cool neon and numbers but once you can you will see what im sayin.
     
  14. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    Are you suggesting that scriptors would be able to harvest masses of item mods, but they wouldn't be able to amass high-end weapons if we just raised the bar?

    Scripters already can farm weapons... raising the bar just lets them get high end items faster.

    Sorry, but raising the bar isn't any more scripter proof than a renewable system. The key difference is that the reneweable system is renewable, but raising the bar is not.
     
  15. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    I've been saying this for over 2 years now.

    You have my vote.
     
  16. I REPEAT i do not want the bar raised... I am not asking for the bar to be raised i want equal loot across equal difficulty its that simple. Please stop posting in here your opinion on a new system has been heard no reason to continue with the same banter.
     
  17. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Here's the problem.

    Scripters succeed for the reason that hunting monsters outside of the top-top bosses... is pointless since AoS. Do you really farm in Covetous for armor?

    If we raised the bar on all loot, rather than raised the bar but redid it and made it practical. IE, the mid-level creatures give you average and usable gear and the high level give you uber gear... consistently and not randomly.

    This would only work if we removed item insurance.

    Do you know how many people we have lost because EA killed this playstyle? How many people enjoyed going out and hunting for stuff to sell to other players looking to replenish their stocks?


    Making everything in this game a "get the item once and keep it forever" is what feeds the scripters. If hunting in dungeons (all of them) was fruitful to the playerbase (from noob to vet) then I tell you what... we wouldn't have people AFK farming mages at the bottom of Chaos... because no one else does and they can get away with it.


    I also think Trammel makes it so that you have to page on people to solve the scripters, which is a HUGE waste of GameMaster resources. Having the players police themselves ensures there won't be afk scripters in dungeons... but most people won't be either as they aren't good enough to compete against the top-tier players in this game... then you get communities forming to combat this minority... and oh I'm just going to stop.


    Remove Item Insurance and fix the loot.

    Siege has been heading somewhat in the right direction, and its the best place to polish the system so it works properly... I say start there.


    **Imagine players, specifically crafters being able to customize what mods they wanted on their suits, whether made by them or pulled off a monster, rather than having to hunt, dig, beg, buy, endlessly in order to find what they were looking for.**

    *drools* at the idea of finding purpose in all aspects of this game once again.
     
  18. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest


    Fine... you don't want to raise the bar, but what you propose should be done would raise the bar. Sorry I jumped the gun on this one. I made the immediate conclusion that you can't buff any loot without also raising the bar on itemization. IMO, this is the only possible conclusion to come to.

    I agree loot should match the difficulty of the monster you killed, but the reason why the high end monsters of yesteryear drop bad loot is because the bar has raised, so the loot on those monsters has also become irrelevant.

    I realize it's a harsh reality, but balrons aren't hard monsters anymore. Dragons aren't hard anymore, Ancient wyrms aren't hard anymore, etc. Generally speaking, if it's an old monster it's not hard anymore. I remember a time when almost no one would even think of trying to melee a balron. Now it's pretty simple.

    I don't think the loot intensity was nerfed... it just became irrelevant because the bar has raised with all the new ways to get high intensity items.
     
  19. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    Coming from the perspective of the insurance system being removed, it absolutely makes sense to raise the bar on monster loot.

    I don't think we'll ever see that happen, though. We have hundreds of monsters in this game and every single one of em would need a loot and difficulty pass. The devs would probably find that monsters they think should be difficult are not difficult, so they would have to tweak them on top of all the loot changes.

    Then there's the change to remove item insurance. I guaruntee that wouldn't be well received. Also, it would make suit building a much bigger part of the game, because you'd be constantly trying to get all the mods you need every time you lose your suit.

    I agree with you that siege would be the best place to tweak the loot drop part of the system. I always get better drops on siege, though. I have a theory that siege gets better drops than normal shards to begin with.

    I just don't think the UO community could get over the hurdle of possibly losing all their equipment with each death.

    Having a system based on droppable suits certainly opens doors for new monster specials. Remember when orc brutes dropped great platemail, but also destroyed your armor? remember when maces in pvp destroyed your armor? Armor destroying moves can work in a system where your suit drops. They don't work in a system where your suit doesn't.

    Well... that's another topic, but I see your point. From your context it definitely makes sense.
     
  20. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    Do you ever think about anything else other than allowing reds into Trammel?

    They would have to definately fix the loot and the enhancing and flood the markets with runics if they removed the insurance. Even then I don't like the idea. I know more people that quit because they lost their items than for any other reason.

    Please do. If it will shut you up about turning Trammel into Felucca light then I will welcome you going there.

    You see what people seem to forget is that even before AoS there were huge areas that were absolutely vaccant of players. The majority of dungeons were empty. The only places that actually had players were the hot spots. Blood Dungeon in Ilshenar always had at least one bard in it. The elder gazer rooms in Shame always had tamers in them. Other than that, due to horrible dungeon design the rest of the dungeons sat empty in 2000 even before the stupidity that was AoS.
     
  21. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    That would be the day I quit UO. This is the system that worked with UO no insurance, Crafters had JOBS Look most people are wearing clothing OoOoOoO

    [​IMG]
     
  22. Krystal

    Krystal Sage
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    i agree! treasure chest loot really needs to be updated.
    but also fishing chest need to be updated to. i would start fishing again if it was!
    both fishing and treasure chest have needed to be updated for over 5 yrs now:/
     
  23. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    The best part of that whole image is someone offering 500k for an item. That item could have easily been one of the best items available in the game at the time. Those were the days.

    The only reason players don't wear "clothes" now is because you simply can't overlook the value of the extra resists and dci that come from vet robes and cloaks, the melissa cloak, or the quiver of infinity. The mistake was that developers put resist on only certain pieces of clothing and not on others and that forced everyone to become a fan of those items.

    Also, god I miss that system. The new system of today is crap compared to the old system. Each corpse only dropped like 1 magic item and you had to use an id wand or id skill on it just to find out what it was and nothing in UO today comes close to the excitement of loring an item only to find out that it was an indestructible/supremely accurate/<weapon>/of vanquishing/silver.
     
  24. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest


    An even better memory for me was disarm stealing a war hammer from a pk that was camping my house only to notice after I got it that it was a supremely accurate vanq. Not silver but still, it was nasty back then when a few hits could wreck the heck out of armor. Look, I made a rhyme.
     
  25. Redxpanda

    Redxpanda Lore Keeper
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    They had the right idea with the virtue drops but by not rotating items, even those became garbage until spring cleaning. I like the idea that every monster slain is a chance of getting something worth keeping. Make the intensity range bigger or the items dropped more random. Same thing goes for treasure. Ever since runics and dark fathers everything else became garbage.
     
  26. Anakena

    Anakena Seasoned Veteran
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    Insurance was a mistake as it put the game in a dead end. Devs have to constantly raise the loot, introduce new items, fix the inevitable inbalances created (UOML bows anyone?) and this is an endless process.
     
  27. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    if you look at the bottom left of that pic you will notice a piece of the vista start button. that pic was shot 5mins before i posted it. Per fourm rules I cannot discuss more about it Hence I cut out everything that would/could lead a player here. But if you look closely at the client you would notice current addons that were not available pre aos. Luck, Neck,earring,hat,ring,bracelet,tabs resists. :p.
     
  28. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    LOL

    In those days I almost never used any of my really good stuff... then at some point I got bored with the game and thought I was going to quit.

    My strategy for quitting was to wear all that gear that I was too afraid to use. It totally breathed new life into the game for me. All of a sudden I was tough as nails and I never actually lost the suit. I didn't end up quitting afterall.

    I enjoyed the loot system where entire suits dropped every time, but I don't think a majority of the playerbase would enjoy it.
     
  29. Lore Master

    Lore Master Guest

    i am all for this idea and we definately need better quality loot.
     
  30. Email has been sent to see what we can get done just to simply balance the loot and make Tokuno items accessible from all monsters.
     
  31. UO doesn't have to make sense. It's perfectly reasonable to have certain items drop from certain areas & monsters within the game. This gives a specific reason to hunt in those areas and those monsters. UO is hardly alone in the MMO industry in doing this.



    No, they shouldn't. What they should do is add to the current T-Map system to include new locations in various parts of Tokuno. The chests dug from these should have Tokuno specific monsters as spawn, and the chests include Tokuno items.


    This I agree with.
     
  32. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    1. I'm all for making runics obtainable more readily (with a bit of work still required of course, yet no where near the grind-fest it currently is) if they removed Item insurance.

    2. Before AoS, not a single dungeon was absolutely vacant, pre-AoS... well, maybe brit sewers.

    3. My post isn't about allowing reds into Trammel or about removing Trammel. Can you read a post of mine without thinking about the last totally awesome idea I've presented on these forums? Anyway, I brought up Trammel because its the exact reason why scripting is a problem in UO... just like using bots is a problem in WoW or in any other game.

    People will take advantage of not being policed by cognitive players and they will exploit it to their advantage.
     
  33. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Sure, but I'd rather return to the days that Ultima Online was innovative and pioneering, rather than a cookie cutter of what the rest of the industry is offering. :danceb:
     
  34. How do you know they all didn't copy us, thus making us the trendsetters? :thumbsup:
     
  35. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    Connor,Connor,Connor everyone knows UO AOS to now is based off diablo II. :lick: