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[URPG Stratics] Publisher Vs. Player – Episode 3: It’s a Player-Eat-Player World

Discussion in 'Ultimate RPG Discussions [Archive]' started by Ultimate RPG News, Aug 14, 2012.

  1. Ultimate RPG News

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    In this twenty-two minute video titled, “Ultimate RPG: Lord British Asks Us About PVP – Publisher Vs. Player Ep. 3 (Special Guest: Fear)” veteran Ultima Online player, Markee Dragon, discusses with Fear about the Player versus Player (PvP) potential in Richard Garriott and Portalarium’s upcoming game, currently known as Ultimate RPG. What follows is not a full transcript, but does contain much of the content from the video for the hearing impaired or for those who prefer to read at their own pace. You can see the second episode on YouTube or the previous article here, on Stratics.
    Newbie Notebook:For people unfamiliar with the acronym PvP, (pronounced, “Pee-Vee-Pee”), when used in this video/script it will refer to two or more players in competitive relationships (generally combat) known as “Player versus Player,” and does not refer to the title of Markee Dragon’s show. The letters, “PK,” is shorthand for someone who kills another player’s character, or a “Player Killer.”
    Markee Dragon:
    Hello, I’m Markee Dragon, also known as Marcus Eikenberry, and this is the Publisher Versus Player show! Now, tonight, we’ve got a special guest with us; it is Fear from Battle Vortex. Fear and I go way, way back!​
    Fear:
    It all had to do with Ultima Online. We were on different servers, I was on Nappa and I think you were on Baja.
    Markee Dragon:
    I’m sure you would have PKed me if we were on the same server. You would have taken all of my wares! You were big into PvP, right?
    Fear:
    Yup, I still am.
    Markee Dragon:
    That fits right in with our subject tonight, which is Lord British has announced Ultimate RPG, and Ultimate RPG is his next RPG game. Except it’s going to be massive multiplayer. Richard has announced this and he said that there are four things that are so far on the top of his list, and he calls them the “Lord British Canonized Truth,” and they are the following:
    (1) The Ultimate RPG will play on mobile as well as PCs.
    I know I’m not so excited about that, I’m hardcore PC, but it’s going to be mobile and PC.
    (2) Ultimate RPG will have player-owned real estate.
    I know, I know, thumbs-up from me, too. In quotes, here, “as openly placeable as possible.”
    (3) Ultimate RPG will have interactive decoration. Most everything that looks operable should operate.
    I think that’s awesome.
    (4) Ultimate RPG will contain virtues and ethical parables.
    That’s what made [Ultima] so famous.
    Let’s talk about PvP. He wrote some comments about PvP, and he wants player feedback. So both you and I can discuss, and we can watch what’s being discussed in the chat here so we can get as much feedback as possible. And those of you who are watching on YouTube, you can leave a comment with the video and we’ll make sure that Lord British and his crew sees it.
    Newbie Notebook:It might be useful to recognize some terms which will come up soon. In Ultima Online, a character was assigned a color based on his positive or negative deeds. For committing bad deeds, you were red. Characters flagged as doing good deeds were blue, and those who did both or neither were gray.
    Lord British:
    PvP – I would like to support as open a PvP as possible, without creating the conditions that run off new players…​
    Markee Dragon:
    Did you see the interview that he just did with Stratics?
    Fear:
    Stratics? I didn’t even know Stratics was still around!
    Not only is Stratics still around, but you have the opportunity to join the brainstorming with Richard Garriott, creator of worlds, and discuss Player versus Player activities on our forums right here!
    Markee Dragon:
    Did you see the story that was there about the woman who kept getting her stuff stolen? And then he goes and tries to ban him, and he’s like, “Dude, I’m just being a thief!”
    Fear:
    Yeah, just like you’re being what you are, I’m trying to be me. He was still a griefer, though.
    Markee Dragon:
    He was. He was, but that was pretty awesome. So that’s the kind of conditions he doesn’t want new players to experience, but… golly, that makes such an awesome story!
    Fear:
    Yeah, that interview was interesting, and I liked it.
    Lord British:
    PvP – I would like to support as open a PvP as possible, without creating the conditions that run off new players, or destroy so much of someones earning to run them off. But I also fear “opt in” systems, or PvP “areas” as not fulfilling the feel that is needed. How do you feel about zone based safety? In a town “controlled” by “your side”, you are safe from PvP. But as you leave the safety of such a town, the threat levels go up. What games do you like that do a good job of both PvE and PvP? Describe for us not just what “you” would like, but what you think will work for players of all types.​
    Fear:
    Ultima Online, I did not mind as a PK — we were able to get to a bank, but it was on an island out in the middle of nowhere. The first time there, you would have to take a boat, or have someone gate you — portal, whatever you guys call them nowadays — to the bank, and then you could make a recall rune there and go back and forth. I didn’t mind that, I was just used to it. I still found — even when I started playing World of Warcraft — going into town for me, was like: I didn’t like being there. I’m not used to that, hanging out with all these people around the bank. I’m like, “What? What is going on here? We should be shooting each other.”
    Markee Dragon:
    “What games do you like that do a good job of both PvE and PvP?” ~ Richard Garriott​

    We might be two sides of this. Myself, I liked the risk, but I didn’t like killing anybody. But I did enjoy the risk. Now you, you were red. You were out there killing people — like me! Yeah, and then you could hack up the body, and you could put the arms and legs in your backpack.
    Fear:
    Agh, that was nasty. Couldn’t you make jerky, or was that something else?
    Markee Dragon:
    What about the PvP do you think is good for you that would allow you to participate in this — allow you to gank people — but at the same time would not drive them off if they were not so much a willing participant in PvP?
    Fear:
    Well, I think what would have helped a little bit more in Ultima Online is a clear understanding to the player that when you leave this area you are no longer under protection of the guards or anyone else for that matter unless you bring a friend. I think there has to be a more clear understanding, and I don’t know how you train them for that other than sites like mine where I actually tried to teach people how to avoid being killed by me. There wasn’t a lot of PKs doing that, though, and a lot of PKs didn’t like that I would tell them things. And I would teach them how to not to get robbed by thieves, things like that. Because you want those people — you need those sheep — to come into the world. And you have to educate them enough that they’ll understand and try it and get out there, and maybe there’s some way to educate them and protect them in certain ways. Maybe for a time they can have certain things where they can get away. And that’s mostly it; I think if they can get away, but without it being exploitable by the PKs doing it to them.
    Markee Dragon:
    Someone will always push the limits. And I know that just from Ultima Online that in many cases, there were never any limits. In many cases, they didn’t envision that this stuff would happen!
    Fear:
    No. When I first came in, I was like: there’s a game like this?! Oh my God!
    “I think there has to be a more clear understanding.” ~ Fear​
    Several people on the forums have mentioned setups where players knowingly join a faction at war with another faction. Those kinds of setups stem from being aware of the risks and taking the responsibility that comes with knowingly engaging in PvP. Many of these complaints come from the victims of the surprise-“Corp Por” game, where they had no chance to engage or disengage from their assailant.
    Markee Dragon:
    I know, I know. Forty hours of your week are now missing.
    Fear:
    I never got to go into town from day one. I only had one character for the longest time.
    Markee Dragon:
    Did you ever play Dark Age of Camelot?
    Fear:
    Yeah, a little bit. I wasn’t really fond of it, but I did play it a little bit.
    Markee Dragon:
    We have a couple people here that say the PvP experience in Dark Age of Camelot was pretty good. But I’ve never really played it myself, either. I do like how they take risk into consideration in Eve Online. I’ve not been a huge Eve player, but basically it works something like this: you buy this ship for a crap load of money, and then you have to have a half-crap load of money to insure the ship in case it gets blown up. Now, that doesn’t stop it from getting hijacked, but if you lose the ship, basically insurance would replace it. And I think that people who are really anal about their stuff should be able to insure it for a lot of money. But it should cost a lot!
    Fear:
    Some kind of reoccurring cost; it should be like a maintenance. I think it should be a maintenance fee. I don’t like just paying for something one time and having it invincible. If you’re gonna do that, you should have to continue to do that, because if you fall off the wagon, then you’d be more susceptible to people coming and getting it.
    Markee Dragon:
    I think that that’s a perfect way to handle it, because then that doesn’t cause you the loss of everything you own, it just causes you inconvenience.
    Fear:
    Yeah, I like that.
    Markee Dragon:
    With player death, was there skill loss? Only if you insta-rezzed.
    Fear:
    Yeah, I think it was only if you didn’t go to the temples.
    Markee Dragon:
    And I think that’s a fine way to handle death.
    Fear:
    I don’t mind experience loss; I didn’t like skill loss. I would be very much against insta-rezzing for that reason, if that’s what they wanted to accomplish — was to force you to go see the healer. Which, for me, there was only one, and then there was only one shrine.
    Markee Dragon:
    Denaro1987 says that, “that reds would lose stats if their death count was over four.”
    Fear:
    It was the Wild Wild West, baby!
    Markee Dragon:
    It was. It was. And that is something I would like to encourage Mister Lord British to do in whatever game he creates to still have it Wild Wild West. I know that there are people that can’t handle that.
    Fear:
    Yeah, there was a lot of grief killing and stuff. And that was probably more wicked than the PKs, because we were bright red. Because there were a lot of people that played that little fine line between criminal and good, and still be able to turn it on you to make you the bad guy, and let him kill you for free!
    Markee Dragon:
    Right, right! Yeah, yeah. That was some of the best griefing!
    Fear:
    Yeah, I was like a little angel compared to the grays. They were the bad guys.
    Markee Dragon:
    What is the most important thing to you, in PvP?
    Fear:
    Balance. I like a good balance, at least with the skills and the different ways you can fight. Mages were kind of susceptible to archers and stuff like that, but warriors were susceptible to mages. But I like a balance. I know that’s a tough thing to ask. I don’t know any companies that’s really pulled it off well. I heard DAoC did a fair job, I assume Eve’s doing fairly well.
    Markee Dragon:
    I think that for myself, if I had one idea, one thing that I could just give as my two cents would be that I certainly want the risk. And I want the risk almost everywhere. There’s very few places that I don’t want the risk. In fact, I even want the risk in my house; if I forget to lock the front door and a red runs in, I want the risk.
    Think about It:
    By creating a “need” (for survival) as well as a competition, brigands cause the side-effect of encouraging their would-be victims to band together. In any online game (with or without PvP), people can be seen ignoring any stranger not useful to them. Competition to succeed can be both the drive and the reward for many people. On the other hand, it’s normally not enjoyable to be defeated in this competition, so if you have a better idea, be sure to share it. You know where to post to add to this discussion!
    Markee Dragon:
    I think that, as someone who is evil, that they should be a weaker person. What I mean by that, is that while maybe people can be a Grandmaster — let’s say Grandmaster is when you get a hundred skill points in one area — but, a PK, or someone who’s a Player-Killer, maybe could only get to 95. It’s like a penalty that gives just a little bit of safety…
    Fear:
    …that gives a little bit of advantage to the good guys.
    Markee Dragon:
    That’s right, and I want that. It causes the player-killers to have to pack up, to work in multiples. But the really good ones, the really crafty ones, would still be able to kill you anyways.
    Fear:
    I think that’s something to explore. I wouldn’t be opposed to that.
    Markee Dragon:
    Well, Fear, I really thank you joining us. Take your comments and apply them to the YouTube video when it comes out. Then, basically, we’re going to show this to Lord British and his staff — the minions that work for him. Anyways, Fear, I would love to have you on the show again, some time in the future.
    Fear:
    Absolutely.
    Still hungry? Hear more about player housing in the fourth episode, either on YouTube or here, on Stratics. Don’t forget to offer your two coins’ worth on the subject to Lord British!

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