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Vampire Spell Pro's and Con's for Mages

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Helsan, Jul 22, 2008.

  1. Helsan

    Helsan Guest

    Hi,

    I was under the impression that being a vampire (via the necromancer spell) gave increased mana regeneration? Lich form, I thought, gives even more mana regeneration but at the cost of not being able to ride a horse. Is this correct? What is the mana regeneration for both forms?

    In the Necromancer spell book, it says that Vampires get both stamina and mana regeneration. Is that true? They get stamina regen? How much?

    I know that they have life leech if they choose (20% right?)

    For con's, I know they have reduced fire resistance: -25% and take damage of 25% from silver weapons (not really a con for PvE) and take damage if they use garlic.

    I tried to check up on uo.com and www.uoguide.com for more details, but what I found was less information. According to both, they make no mention of mana regen or stamina regen. So...are the websites incomplete or has the vampire form been changed since I last played?

    Regardless, I notice both the spellbook and the websites don't mention anything about their resistance to poison below level 5.

    So here are the pro's and con's with question marks for the ones that I am not sure about:

    Pro's: Poison Resistance, Mana Regen??, Stamina Regen??, Life leech when attacking

    Con's: Silver Weapons, Major Fire Resistance Drop, Garlic damage

    _______________________________
    With all that in mind, what are the advantages of being a necro/mage in PvE? I guess I always used it for mana regen, poison resistance, (wisp and lich form if I need more mana and no horse), withering, and healing via spirit speak. Does anyone else use the necro/mage differently for PvE?

    I do have difficulty playing a necro/mage against top level monsters such as peerless, Doom, and very high level paragons...I find EVs to be my best attack rather than my other spells. Any suggestions on how can I do a great deal more damage to monsters as a mage (not as a warrior or archer)?

    For PvE mages, how many of you use necro mage? What other variations do you use? How about spellweaving? I never used it...is it worth it? Thanks!
     
  2. Hunters Moon

    Hunters Moon Guest

    Pro's for the vamp embrace spell is decent mana and stamina regen. Having the spell cast also makes you immune to all but lethal poison but the drawback is -25 points in fire reistance. The mana regen bonus is enough for me to drop any focus skill.
     
  3. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Here's is that I can recall. They might not be exact but they should be very close.

    Vamp mage is not too realistic in PvP due to garlic damage. Vamp mage was once a popular choice when LRC suit prevents you from taking garlic dmg. Garlic damage can deal anywhere from 20 to 30 per cast. That will make your gheal only healing 20to 30ish and spamming certain spells will kill you, quick.

    I am not a PvMer so I cant tell you that but mages generally suck in PvM might as well go a tamer w/ greater dragon or a sampire than you will have pvm easy mode turned on. :thumbsup:
     
  4. Helsan

    Helsan Guest

    Wait, Vampire form has 6 mana regen and 20 stamina regen? Or was that a typo from quoting?

    Even with slayer books and 3/6 and spellweaving and necromancy, mages can't be major damage dealers to the top end bosses?
     
  5. Alrich

    Alrich Guest

    get much sdi as you can, 2/6 fc/fcr, corpse skin and fireball, does 'decent' damage, esp if you have ee's or evs going while you do it
     
  6. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    It's not a typo. Vamp form has a huge amount of stam reg. Go into vamp form and nuke yourself. You will gain more than 2 stam per second. Thats well over 20 stam regen. Lich form grants 10 mana regen, and vamp form grants either 4 or 6 mana regen I forgot.

    The vamp stam regen is also one of the reason sampire has it easy in PvM. When they get hit hard, their EoO, slayer, cons weapon damage stacking with life leech keep them alive and then the chunk of stam thats lost by taking damage from the bosses is replenished quickly ASSUMING they dont have a stam leech weapon.
     
  7. Vamp form give 3 mana regen and 14 stam regen.
     
  8. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    I wouldn't go Vamp on a mage, at least not for PvP.

    -Pots will hurt you when someone LPs and you try to cure with them. I wonder if Enhance Potions would harm you more in this case too. Same for your Cure Spell, although LRC means you don't get hurt? Can't remember.
    -You will be immune to fellow mages' Poison but why not use Orange Petals and save the skill points?
    - Do you really need Stamina Regen on a mage? Refresh pots.
    - Harder to track as a Vampire I think.. or something. Doesn't help you much though, being a mage and Ninja Mage being obsolete(thankfully). Also being in Vamp Form blocks Animal Form so no matter. And who's actually a Tracker Ninja PvPer with Stealth and Hiding for that infamous 1-time 60 Dmg DS?
    - If by chance you encounter a PvPer based on damage with an Undead Slayer you're done. Max damage easily against you. Rare though.
    - You should have sufficient Mana Regen as a mage anyway.
    - Life Leech doesn't work with Spells. If you're planning Weapon Mage to leech life, think again. You need high damage to make it worthy enough. No room.
    - It's not worth the trouble of having 80ish Fire Resist suit.
    - .....And Corpse Skin pwns you.
    - ...Aaaaaaaaand you might stumble on a mage who might wanna use an uber Undead Slayer book on you.. WITH Corpse Skin. ;P Rare but would be ridiculous to die like that.

    Just my opinion anyway. I'd stay in normal form even if I did use Necro on a Mage from what I've experienced.
     
  9. Helsan

    Helsan Guest

    Great idea...I hadn't thought of using a lower level spell like fireball. Does it always reduce the target's fire resistance by 15? So fireball repeatedly does more damage than say explosion because it is quicker to cast or fireball because of the mana or another reason?

    If I have 2/3 fc/fcr, is that enough? How about sdi of 17%, is that enough? Would this combo with an EV make me closer to other classes for damage in PvE? Thanks again.
     
  10. Helsan

    Helsan Guest


    I like have distance from a target if possible. I guess I could try making a sampire with another character, but if I did maybe with an archer. I can see how stam regen is excellent for a warrior/archer.
     
  11. Helsan

    Helsan Guest

    Thank you.
     
  12. Helsan

    Helsan Guest

    You could spirit speak through poison though. But I don't know if that would be enough healing with 20pointish type greater heals while a necro in PvE?

    1 time 60 point DS damage? What does DS stand for?

    If I encounted a PvPer using an undead slayer or book, I think it would be really funny and would laugh (not at them, if they actually had the foresight to bring it with them...but just at the concept of being the target of a slayer item). I realize I would be laughing as a ghost, of course. :p

    Okay...say, you ran out of petals and were fighting a regular mage (no warriors around) one on one. Assuming your suit had the fire resist for it, wouldn't that be a good time to change into a vampire just for immunity to poison and extra healing with spirit speak? Though of course the spirit speak is there regardless.

    Getting a high enough suit is almost impossible. I wear an 89 fire resist resuit now and get 64 fire resist in vamp form.
     
  13. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    I went into KR, stripped my Necro/Swordsman butt naked of equipment, and cast Vampiric Embrace, and looked at his Stam/Mana Regen listed in the Status Bar, and compared it to what it was before. With GM Necro/GM SS, Vampire Form gives +15 Stam Regen/+3 MR. Lich Form gives +13 MR/-4 HPR. Moloch Form (Horrific Beast) gives +20 HPR. Undead Slayers do 15% more damage to you while in any Necro Form, which makes Undead Slayer Scrapper's Compendiums incredibly dangerous, and one of the most sought after/expensive spellbooks. With 120 Eval/GM Inscrip/Capped SDI for PvP (15%) and Undead Slayer Spellbook, my Exp+FS Combos roast Wraith Form Spawners and Vamp Form Dexxers like Kentucky Fried Chicken.

    You used to be able to avoid the Garlic damage while in Vampire Form by either having 100% LRC, using Arcane Clothing or Scrolls to cast the spell. In a patch awhile back, they removed that, which basically nerfed Vamp Form for Mages. My Necro/Swordsman just loves it though.
     
  14. Revenant2

    Revenant2 Guest

    I can't imagine using Vamp form on a mage, and this is coming from someone who loves Vamp form stuff. The self-damage from casting garlic-containing spells plus the inability to seriously cure the high level poisons is just too big a turn in the Screwed-Before-You-Start direction.

    It seems okay to be in Vamp form and to throw a couple of heals on someone else, assuming that you're not the one being dumped on. One of my chars ran a temp that could do this. But for the handling of self-healing and self-curing he was bandaids and anatomy. For him to heal himself with magery was not viable.

    If someone's seriously making it work (meaning really doing it and surviving) by using spirit speak and waiting for high level poison to wear off, well, that's good for them, but it sounds like ass.
     
  15. Revenant2

    Revenant2 Guest

    Nah it's doable but it can be involved to build the suit. I have two chars that run Vamp form and they are both 70 fire resist. Neither is corpse-skin proof tho!

    If you don't intend to be medable the Jackal's Collar can be helpful. A low-budget help is the Royal Leggings of Embers. When you have cash you can get it without either of these, it's just that a number of the pieces you wear must have kickass levels of fire resist and your jewels may need to pop some in there too. Using Magic Reflection + Reactive Armor and maybe some Inscription skill in the mix can help as well.
     
  16. Are you entirely sure about this? I just tested slayers and it didn't seem to be making any difference, wraith form gives -5 fire resist, lich form gives -25 fire resist is it likely thats what you were seeing? Most people make themselfs corpse proof but not corpse, wraith, lich/vamp proof.
     
  17. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    Generally as you see it's a hassle to go for that template.

    You could spirit speak through poison though.

    - Not sufficient in quite a few cases, gets interrupted, and is nowhere near In Mani or drinking a pot with EP items.. You are sacrificing another skill slot just to heal through Poison while you could just cure it. Vamp Form does not require Spirit Speak.

    1 time 60 point DS damage? What does DS stand for?

    - Deathstrike.

    Okay...say, you ran out of petals and were fighting a regular mage (no warriors around) one on one.

    - Potions.

    Assuming your suit had the fire resist for it, wouldn't that be a good time to change into a vampire just for immunity to poison and extra healing with Spirit Speak?

    - Not enough time to cast it. You are taking a risk... I'm afraid the extra healing you mention is not as potent as you might think. Only a safety measure at best.

    Though of course the Spirit Speak is there regardless.

    - Not if you only want the Vampire Form.

    Getting a high enough suit is almost impossible. I wear an 89 fire resist resuit now and get 64 fire resist.

    - Plus Curse (now you are 60), plus Corpse Skin = Death from Magic Arrows as they will interrupt you AND damage you.

    Get much SDI as you can, 2/6 fc/fcr, Corpse skin and Fireball, does 'decent' damage.

    - True. But do you need to be Vamp for that? No.

    Lastly.. Refresh Pots > Stamina Regen + Stamina Leech.
     
  18. You can still use refresh pots in vamp form, though as everyone else is saying on a mage it just isn't viable anymore.

    The other guy is likely right when he said it's 3 mana regen, 15 stam regen. I checked the exact same way (went in to KR) but it was a while ago. I mainly remember the 3 mr as I was quite dissapointed by that (thought it was 6 for a long time).

    I think there was a time (before the lrc/garlic fix) when vamp form used to life leech from spells... that was probably the only time it was really viable on a mage.