1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Ven fees should be on commision!!

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Chazztizer, Mar 5, 2015.

  1. Chazztizer

    Chazztizer Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    154
    Likes Received:
    80
    I want to sell my stuff. Being a Fell Vendor it just cost's so much for me to sell it I just flat out loose!!We need to change this to a commission fee at the point of sell.
     
  2. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

    Joined:
    May 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,813
    Likes Received:
    2,329
    Commission fee at the time of being placed on vendor.
    But we have been down this discussion before, and evidently it isn't important enough to be changed. However, you will be able to use your gold everywhere, as the overpowering 1 mil checks are being deleted...and oh yeah, if you hvae a Dupre's shield it can be dyed now ;) :gee:
     
  3. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend GoT

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,628
    Likes Received:
    1,390
    Ok, I submitted a report when using Spirit Speak would stop the Inspire song from running. I'm glad I did because it's supposedly fixed now. So I applaud the devs for listening to us and fixing things. But I gotta scratch my head and wonder who the person was that wanted to dye that shield and reported it when they couldn't. :)
     
    Uriah Heep likes this.
  4. silent

    silent Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,082
    Likes Received:
    186
    It really makes you wonder who is prioritizing this stuff...
     
    petemage and Uriah Heep like this.
  5. Capt. Lucky

    Capt. Lucky Babbling Loonie

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2014
    Messages:
    2,982
    Likes Received:
    2,461
    It ain't just a Fel problem. If your on a low population shard it's getting nearly impossible to find things. I have a ton of stuff I'd like to offer up I don't want anymore, but if your on a low population shard your going to probably be sitting on these things to long to make a dime off it. Broadsword would like us to put everything dirt cheap so people can do shard transfers, buy it all up, and sell it on GL's and Atlantic for triple the money :p
     
  6. Capt. Lucky

    Capt. Lucky Babbling Loonie

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2014
    Messages:
    2,982
    Likes Received:
    2,461
    Oh btw, probably the most brilliant idea I've read on here in a year.
     
  7. silent

    silent Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,082
    Likes Received:
    186
    That idea has been brought up before, but the comments were that people would store stuff on there by pricing it high and it would never sell thus the commission fee never happening. But like was stated above if the commission were front loaded when you placed the item that would help mitigate the concern. And really with the amount of storage increases you get who really wants to store stuff on vendors now?
     
  8. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

    Joined:
    May 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,813
    Likes Received:
    2,329
    Well, since we are down to probably 300 actual players (not accounts lol) I dont see what diff it would make if people did use it for storage. Paying up front to put something on a vendor at such a high price no one would take it from them, seems to me like a good gold sink, which they are always clamoring for.
     
  9. silent

    silent Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,082
    Likes Received:
    186
    You really think we're that low now?
     
  10. Capt. Lucky

    Capt. Lucky Babbling Loonie

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2014
    Messages:
    2,982
    Likes Received:
    2,461
    It all boils down to if Broadsword wanted to address this they could. With the vendor situation on the low population shards so desperate (please feel free to check for yourself) it totally discourages new players from playing there and in general is just a dire situation. Not being able to find the basic things on these shards is killing them and probably the same for the game in general. When speaking of low population shards it's pretty much any shard besides Atlantic, lol.
     
  11. Capt. Lucky

    Capt. Lucky Babbling Loonie

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2014
    Messages:
    2,982
    Likes Received:
    2,461
    I bet we're at about 50K "accounts" or EA would pull the plug. EA doesn't run any charities lol
     
    Christina Kardos likes this.
  12. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

    Joined:
    May 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,813
    Likes Received:
    2,329
    maybe more accoounts, but nowhere near that many players. And most the players, from last we saw, are on the asian shards. I've run around most of the US shards lately, if it isnt Atlantic, you can barely find more than a few people. GL was better than most, but it was still mostly abanddoned
     
  13. Keith of Sonoma

    Keith of Sonoma Certifiable

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,677
    Likes Received:
    685
    It is my humble opinion that vendors are the BEST place to store BOD's, LOL. Now if we had an overhaul to the bod books/storage count I would think differently. But that is a thought for a whole different thread. :)
     
  14. Yadd of Legends

    Yadd of Legends Certifiable
    Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    May 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,873
    Likes Received:
    1,019
    Well, I made the same post a couple weeks ago (as Silent noted in Post #7), so I'd like to share the brilliancy prize, if you don't mind . Thank you :)
    https://stratics.com/community/threads/vendor-fees.331968/
    PS - I still support the idea.
     
  15. HoneythornGump

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2014
    Messages:
    735
    Likes Received:
    383
    Negative.

    Commission fee should be paid at the time of the sale. There should be no penalties involved for items that don't sell.
     
    niceguy likes this.
  16. TheDrAJ

    TheDrAJ Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Alpha and Omega

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    Messages:
    1,450
    Likes Received:
    493
    I'd like to see a virtue that had as a reward reduced vendor fees. Who buys anything from NPCs (course I play Siege!)
     
  17. The Craftsman

    The Craftsman Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    676

    Saying as UO is run on a shoestring Im sure they could still turn a profit at way way below 50k accounts.

    According to a software consultant firm,
    "The salaries of game software developers vary according to the specific role and experience. According to an April 2013 salary survey by Game Developer Magazine, programmers earned one of the highest average annual salaries of $92,151."

    So if we have 4 people working on UO thats around the $370k a year mark.

    If the cost of a monthly UO subscription is $10 per month (when paid 6 months at a time) thats $120 per account per annum.

    50k subscriptions would equate to an annual income of around 6 million dollars, so it is in fact way way below 50k at which UO could financially survive.

    even 5k active subscriptions would bring in $600k per year, enough to pay salaries and server costs (anyone give a guess as to what server costs might be?) Its not like they are spending millions on marketing. zero in fact?

    Im sure there are other sundry costs and I realise this isnt an exact science and im talking averages and ballpark figures here but 5k seems to me a number that UO could just about get by on. I dont think EA would let it get that low and probably pull the plug before that. What we have now is anyones guess but id say currently between 10k and 20k accounts.

    Anyone else like to come up with a figure or fine tune my rough calculation?
     
    #17 The Craftsman, Mar 7, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2015
  18. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
    Moderator Professional Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Messages:
    10,683
    Likes Received:
    8,768
    I'm pretty sure Craftsman is pretty close to the actual numbers with his 5k accounts estimate, there is absolutely no way UO still has 50k subscriptions. If you look at the history of UO, the statistics say that the most subscribers UO has ever had at one time was in the 2002-2003 time frame with 250k accounts. There is no possible way that there is still 20% of the people playing that UO had at its peak.
     
  19. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2004
    Messages:
    5,912
    Likes Received:
    1,186
    pretty sure "fell" was actually supposed to be "full" lol. but either way.. lol
     
  20. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2004
    Messages:
    5,912
    Likes Received:
    1,186
    Well also take into account besides player subs.. origin store.money.. im sure there are quite a few sales there daily
     
  21. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,160
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    What shard are you on?
    Where is your vendor house?
    Do you advertise your vendor house at all?
    What are you selling and at what price?
    I have been running vendors for 15 years on multiple shards and have never had any problems at all.
    If you price your items correctly and advertise them your items will move.
    The fees are the fees. It is a simple and straight calculation.
    If you want the luxury of dropping expensive high end items on your vendor and forgetting about them until they sell you have to ofc pay.
    There is no effort involved at all and you are able to sell items for a hundred million gold or more. That's more gold than most players may ever have in their entire UO lifetime.
    The fees have not changed in quite some time. There are no surprises there.
    If you wanna be a bigtime dealer you should understand how they work and be prepared to pay bigtime fees.

    Reducing vendor fees will not change the dynamics of dead shards one iota.

    These recurring vendor fee rants are generally nothing more than a few very, very wealthy farmers not wanting to pay for the luxury of acting bigtime.

    My personal vendor fees for the past 6 months have been 2 to 3 million per day at Weavers recently vacated Luna shop. I farm high end items and sell them for a lot so I pay a hefty fee for the luxury of having to do zero work to sell them.
    I knew that when I signed up so what is the real issue here?
     
  22. Yadd of Legends

    Yadd of Legends Certifiable
    Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    May 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,873
    Likes Received:
    1,019
    All I can say to that is I've never been a wealthy farmer - little time to farm and I have 100M gold on one shard and about 10M on another - "I build characters" = that eats up most of my gold
     
    MalagAste and silent like this.
  23. silent

    silent Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,082
    Likes Received:
    186
    Hahaha coming from the guy selling 100s of millions of gold items himself. You have no conception of what this discussion is about because you have 100s of millions sitting on your vendors. Not everyone has that. My most expensive item is sitting at 10 million gold everything else is in the THOUSANDS. To the guy with only a couple million sitting in their vendor account and fees totaling up to 50-100k per day (cause even stuff priced in the thousands adds up) its a big hit.

    Not all of us can go out and farm high end stuff which is what appears to be the only thing that sells now. So basically if we can't farm high end stuff, we can't vend, if we can't vend to support our playing and possibly buy a high end piece, we leave. Good luck selling your crap!
     
    #23 silent, Mar 7, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2015
    Yadd of Legends likes this.
  24. Yadd of Legends

    Yadd of Legends Certifiable
    Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    May 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,873
    Likes Received:
    1,019
    Somebody just doesn't want the competition of more of us little guys putting stuff up for sale;)
     
    Goldberg-Chessy and silent like this.
  25. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    6,753
    Likes Received:
    3,543
    i would love something like this. i could easily raise the price by 50 - 300 percent and just let things sit with no risk. as it is now, im forced to price things at reasonable level that i expect them to sell at in a timely manner, or fees ruin any chances at profit.

    So i like the idea ;)
    you can sell other stuff than loot, youd be surprised people pay alot of gold for really common items just because they dont want to get them theirselves. deco mostly.

    to be fair, i think Goldberg is a perfect example of the vendor system working. his loot is very very reasonalbly priced. usually much lower than other luna vendors, he doesnt try to pricegouge and get a high amount for every item so it actually sells.

    Even perfect loot isnt selling for much. The devs had made loot very common and available for everyone, i think they meant it more for use than for sale. since pvp is declining everyday, and more loot coming out everyday, the new loot is generally pretty worthless unless you find that one person who can use it, which in itself takes work and knowlegde of what is a useful piece.

    I realize on dead shards things dont really sell, but i also know i look for stuff and theres just nothing available. like id probably pay 100k a piece for stone armor repair deeds when i need (given thats only like once a year) and just stuff like potions and basics like power scrolls.

    I also feel like people rely on vendor search too much, without runes or a well placed luna vendor alot of people just wont bother and will never see what some backwoods vendor has for sale.

    I dont see why anyone cant find sellable pieces. there are EM events (lots of monster loot) exodus, scalis, i even here corgul loot has gotten better. yes you need a group and it takes time but anyone has that available to them.

    i loot barely anything now. I dont farm but see alot of high end mob loot at events. once in a while do public scalis. i probably keep 1 out of every 200 pieces of loot i see, and out of that probably only a third of it actually sells. you just have to know how to identify a good piece and make the most of the extremely rare near perfect items when your lucky enough to find one.
     
    #25 Smoot, Mar 7, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2015
  26. silent

    silent Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,082
    Likes Received:
    186
    Smoot, I think Goldberg is the perfect example of the old aristocracy when he makes posts like that... let them eat cake. I have a vendor in Luna on both Chessy and Atlantic. After "seeding" my Atlantic vendor with a couple low priced heritage tokens to get some gold on there. I have lesser / greater arties on there priced in the 50-250k range. Decent usable items, but not legendary uber items, and they are sitting. And have been sitting for a few weeks.... So basically I like to hunt, I hunt to support my suit and weapon building, if i can't sell what I selectively keep i'm going to run out of gold. I can see it already happening.
     
  27. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    6,753
    Likes Received:
    3,543
    i agree, loot now, most stuff that is very usuable but not pvp, popular stats, or near perfect just doesnt sell. theres so much that people general just get this for themselves. Dont really know what to say to that, times change and this is where the devs have taken the game. I think its a good change as players arent forced to buy things to have a good time.

    theres lots of ways to make gold. i turn down many people wanting imbued suits made because its just not worth the time. buy / resell is always an option. vendor search "picking" is often much more profitable than actually farming the loot yourself. the most important thing is knowing a pieces value. ive seen vendors with 100 pieces of loot priced at 500k, only 1 of which is good and actually worth like 20mil. but they lost out because they sold the 1 actual good piece for too little and the others arent worth selling. You can buy cleanup point stuff for like 1.5 mil, turn it in and buy a full sorcerers suit which sell well for 3-4 mil. just saying there are so many options now. Honestly, casually killing mid-end monsters is fun, but not very profitable if its gold value people are concerned about.

    Like anything, knowing the market and knowing what to look for is the most important thing.
     
    silent likes this.
  28. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,160
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    I have hundreds of millions sitting on my vendor because I worked hard for it ingame. It didn't just appear in my bank vault or on my vendor. I pvp and I farm.
    Farming is boring as hell to me but I do it to sustain my other play styles.
    Based upon your words in this discussion you are obviously a disgruntled hasnot who seems to have no clue about basic vendor/sales principles.
    The vendor fees are static and easy to comprehend. The percentages are the percentages.
    It takes almost zero time and effort to drop items on a vendor to make gold.
    If you are dropping way too many incorrectly priced items of any value (large or small) on your vendor you are simply being lazy and foolish and will ofc pay unnecessary fees.
    Better yet, if you dislike current vendor fees so much maybe you should just spam your smallwares at the bank?
    Too much time and effort involved?
    Hrmmm...

    Btw, I am sure you do not know the meaning of the phrase "eat cake" :)
    My vendors are very successful and make me quite a lot of gold with little to no effort required on the sales end.
     
    Christina Kardos likes this.
  29. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,160
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    Based upon this post alone it is easy to understand why you are personally unable to run a decent vendor Silent.

    1) You start your vendor off by selling your heritage tokens too cheap why?
    You don't have an alt account that can buy something to get you seed gold?
    Or a friend ingame?

    2) Only selling what you don't "selectively keep?"
    You realize that is just another way of saying you are only trying to sell junk right?
    You don't want it or feel it has enough value to keep so you decide to place it on a vendor in an already flooded market? Lol.

    3) You have access to and characters on Atlantic but have vendors on Chessy why? There is a sum total of about 15 people actively playing that shard.

    I have some time to spare later today. Please PM me and I will be more than happy to give you some good basic advice on how to run a vendor :)
     
  30. silent

    silent Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,082
    Likes Received:
    186
    1. I do have other accts, and honestly I didn't think about doing that next time I will.
    2. I guess I phrased that wrong. I'm only selling things I selectively loot either for myself or for other people, most probably 99% gets left on the corpse. I only play melee templates so anything mage or otherwise goes on my vendor. So other than a couple items I'm not really doing much of any cherry picking. In fact all of my armor and weapons have been either crafted or bought.
    3. Thanks I appreciate that. I'll ping you later.
     
  31. silent

    silent Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,082
    Likes Received:
    186
    Ya actually I do, and it's not the cake we normally think of today... was just a quick reaction to your post. Which really came off a little elitist in that the system works for you it must work for everyone. But from your perspective, just like in life the more money you have the easier it is to make, this also applies in the game.
     
  32. Yadd of Legends

    Yadd of Legends Certifiable
    Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    May 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,873
    Likes Received:
    1,019
    Overall thoughtful post, but I don't understand this statement. I thought the whole idea of the vendor search was so people could see what was for sale anywhere, to put everybody on an equal footing with Luna vendors, and so buyers wouldn't have to walk around Luna looking at all the vendor inventory, or simply rely on a third-party vendor search.
     
  33. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    6,753
    Likes Received:
    3,543
    that was the idea, but you still have to "search" for it. i find a well placed vendor sells much better because alot of people just dont want to search, or are just walking by and happen to see something they wouldnt have searched for in the first place. Also know that my front row luna vendors often sell things when they are actually the highest priced on vendor search, only explanation would be people walking by are buying these things just because they are right there rather than the ones that are much much cheaper on vendor search.
     
    petemage likes this.
  34. Yadd of Legends

    Yadd of Legends Certifiable
    Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    May 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,873
    Likes Received:
    1,019
    Hm, old habits die hard - I like the search and teleport
    Of course the other explanation is that people just know and like Smoot and want to support his vendor
     
    #34 Yadd of Legends, Mar 7, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2015
  35. Yadd of Legends

    Yadd of Legends Certifiable
    Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    May 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,873
    Likes Received:
    1,019
    So I tried an experiment to see how much people use the new vendor search. I have a house on Atlantic east of the trammel Yew gate. It's not a high traffic area. Powders of fortifying are selling for 150k each on Atlantic. I put out 10 powders for 100k each (I have too many of them anyway). They sold almost immediately (maybe to somebody who is going to use them, maybe to somebody who will resell them for 150k each; it doesn't matter to me). I'd be pretty certain somebody saw them only through vendor search.
    So we can see that items that are in demand and priced low will sell quickly through vendor search on a populated shard.
    That point granted, this wasn't my original concern. I'm more concerned about the cost of putting an item that is worth millions to the right buyer on a vendor when it will eat up 100s of thousands waiting for the buyer that needs it. I don't see the problem of taking the commission out of the sale for that type of item. This would only result in more variety on vendors, and I can only see that as good for the game.
    Yes, you can argue that the present system is the way it's always been. I would argue that prices have gone up astronomically, so the daily commission has gone up - but not everybody's gold has gone up. The gap between the rich and the poor has increased. We are proposing a change to close that gap.
    I also realize the developers are working on a lot of other things, but I would also prefer dealing with issues of basic game mechanics foremost. Maybe something to suggest at one of those shard developer meetings.
     
  36. Chazztizer

    Chazztizer Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    154
    Likes Received:
    80
    I am on Sonoma ,fell, I can go all day and not see a post in gen chat sometimes( yes I advertise) and most do not like to come to fell once you advert I have unused dye tubs for sell at only 50 k each. I also have under 5 mill, My point is that I will go broke trying to sell them on my shard . The way it is set up vendors are only for the rich on high populated shards..IMO
     
    Angel of Sonoma likes this.
  37. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    6,753
    Likes Received:
    3,543
    about what i said about well placed vendor, common stuff that people search for like crimsons / fort powder do sell well, i was speaking more for rares / jewels / armor that is not as common. Arties do also tend to sell for slightly higher than vendor search on a front row vendor.

    what you said about items that need the right buyer, those are they types of items that a high profile vendor really helps for. it definitely worth the gold for vendor rental fees to get your items sold in a more timely manner, espsecially when every day that 100m items sits its like 500k in vendor fees. I just know id love to have the convenience of vendors at my house, but for me personally it would just be too big of a risk and think overall profits would probably fall by about 20 percent if i just relied on search.

    the thing i can see happening if there were a "commission" is the people who do not immediatly need the gold would most likely raise prices. like if i know a piece of armor would sell for 175 mil, but it might take 4 months, why would i sell it for 50-100m (which currently has to be done to avoid too much daily fee cutting into profits)?

    Commision would be good for those for not much gold, but i can also see it causing prices on many items to increase drastically.

    So, if fees were based on commission, yes sellers would save some vendor fees, but would also be spending more on things. because people in general would have to spend more, they would also need to raise prices to be able to pay more for what they wanted. This is just my personal analysis of course of how it would play out, i run 9 luna vendors consisting of jewels, arties, rares, and deco and while not one of the biggest vendor merchants (id say only about 30% of my gold comes from vendors), do sell billions a year from them.
     
    #37 Smoot, Mar 8, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2015
    Yadd of Legends likes this.
  38. niceguy

    niceguy Visitor

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2015
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    2
    Vendor fees need to be slashed massively! As a returning player on a small shard, I don't have a lot of money, so setting up a vendor is out of the question. Too bad, since the vendor system is such a great feature, and I have a lot of stuff I would like to sell. The insane vendor fees not only harm new players, they also discourage trade in general. Please fix this already!
     
    SoftServeDreams likes this.
  39. Christina Kardos

    UWF

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    600
    Likes Received:
    228
    High vendor costs are great in my opinion. I would even go as far as saying that the should be increased. Why? It is the only decent gold sink in the game and we know how much the economy of the game needs it. Moreover it is also good for low pop. servers : people should start selling their stuff on general chat/bank, meet new people, interact with each other... not just solo hunt/throw stuff on vendor/log out!
     
  40. Roland Of Gilead

    Roland Of Gilead Seasoned Veteran
    Governor Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2008
    Messages:
    467
    Likes Received:
    140
    I would think that vendor fees are the main reason we see people lower prices on items that aren't selling on vendors. They usually aren't selling because it is priced higher than folks wanna pay or it is simply an item very few if anyone wants. Since the vendor is being charged for it based on the price and per day it kind of forces vendors to price it reasonably to start with or adjust in the future to make it sell or it costs them more fees...No fees would simply allow people to price it whatever an leave it that price without penalty. Unless maybe they added time on vendor into the fee when it sells I guess but still allows it to sit forever , at least it penalizes u for letting it encouraging more "competitive" pricing.
     
  41. Yadd of Legends

    Yadd of Legends Certifiable
    Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    May 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,873
    Likes Received:
    1,019
    Even though a pauper is always cautious about accepting the analysis of a billionaire, the point that no daily vendor fees could raise prices is worth considering - at least on Atlantic. Point taken.
    Still, I don't think we should assume (again) that what's working on Atlantic is working on the smaller shards. What you have on smaller shards is very few choices on vendors because nobody wants to lose money keeping things sitting there for weeks waiting for somebody who happens to need it. This has been said before in this and the other thread. And lowering the price isn't the answer if nobody is around to buy it. Of course you could always sell something if you lower the price enough - somebody will buy it wholesale and take it over to Atlantic to sell at retail - but who wants to feel like a sap?
    People would be on the smaller shards if shopping on those shards were more of an option - which is isn't because there's not enough critical mass to make it worth putting stuff on vendors and losing money through daily vendor fees - unless you're already a billionaire and open to a "gold sink" - which is meaningless to those without gold.
    So what works for the goose does not work for the gander, but I can't think of a way to solve one problem on the small shards without upsetting the Atlantic sellers.
    And then we're back to people just farming stuff on the small shards and transferring it over to sell on Atlantic.
    Maybe that's just what the game's become.
     
    Tina Small likes this.
  42. Angel of Sonoma

    Angel of Sonoma Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    1,735
    Likes Received:
    1,663
    It's hardly worthwhile to run a vendor on Sonoma. Just this week I was thinking of taking my vendors down and setting up shop on Atlantic. The main reason is that I am losing gold. I am not a billionaire and too much of a casual player to lose gold. Everything I sell is lower priced than any other shard (example: Soulstone fragment tokens for 1.9 mil) but there's just no demand on the smaller shards.
     
  43. HoneythornGump

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2014
    Messages:
    735
    Likes Received:
    383
    I have some vendors on Sonoma, and I'm in the same boat. I may consider dropping my vendors as well because it's no longer worthwhile trying to keep them afloat.

    In order to sell items in UO, virtually every player needs to migrate to Atlantic.

    Let's drop our vendors, and help Sonoma become another wasteland shard. That way any new players returning won't be able to buy items, and they'll quite all that much sooner.Which is what we all want... right? Less players in UO!

    This topic about the asinine vendor fees has been talked about for several years now, and at this point major damage has already been done and it's had a huge negative impact on shards of low population and for the overall health of Ultima Online.

    On this topic I would refer to the powers that be as "not very bright" and extremely "short sighted" in terms of the pros and cons of vendor fees.
     
  44. Lorddog

    Lorddog Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,115
    Likes Received:
    298
    so anyways what is the day that an item becomes the cost of selling - seems like it is around 30-45 days.
    no matter what the cost of the item.
    I only sell items on venders when I have a buyer ready to buy it that day. only way to do it on the slower shards.
     
  45. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    6,753
    Likes Received:
    3,543
    totally agree on that. but dont see an easy solution. a "low pop shard" "tax break" would probably be best for the game and encourage things to be sold on home shards rather than just move it to atlc. how that would be implemented tho im not sure. Ideally, the best way would be to adjust the daily rate according to the average amount of people online, very low or next to nothing for low pop, what it is now, or even higher for high pop.
     
    Yadd of Legends likes this.
  46. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

    Joined:
    May 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,813
    Likes Received:
    2,329
    Or, set a price limit for free time. Some of us would like to keep some cheaply priced start up stuff on vendors for peeps making new chars, or even the very rare new player. A few runebooks spellbooks (all kinds) scrolls, odd and end furniture, maybe different plants, you get the drift. I refuse to pay a vendor to stand around holding this stuff, some of which usually is eventually needed-be it a month or so from stocking. So I'm getting out of the business.

    Maybe make vendor commission free on all items less than 1mil? I don't know, but there has to be an answer. Otherwise, I fear that more and more vendors (except Atl, naturally) will be closing and it will become even harder to buy anything (exceept for Atlantic, of course).

    Oh well que sera sera.
     
    Smoot, Yadd of Legends and BeaIank like this.
  47. niceguy

    niceguy Visitor

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2015
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    2
    Some people are arguing that vendor fees should be a money sink. I don't get it frankly. I have played alot of games, and I don't recall any of them using massive transaction costs as the main money sink. In fact, most transaction costs in games are either low, or free many times, in order to facilitate the economy. If the lack of a money sink in UO is the issue, then we should think of a better one that hits the people it is targeted towards (i.e. the billionaires), not the small guys or the low pop shards. That's what we should be brainstorming, not how much we can milk from the vendor system.
     
    SoftServeDreams likes this.
  48. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

    Joined:
    May 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,813
    Likes Received:
    2,329
    I understand what you are saying. Lots of people (no names) that want vendor fees as a gold sink are the ones that deal in rares and high$$stuff that they sell by chat, message boards, brokers, etc...so vendor fees dont bother them to much. It's the "little guy" that the fees are killing.
     
    SoftServeDreams likes this.
  49. HoneythornGump

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2014
    Messages:
    735
    Likes Received:
    383
    What do we want for UO?

    Gold sinks or shards that have emptied out and become wastelands?

    The real question is "what better for the overall health of the game?"

    You can't implement both, so which has more value, and which will help Ultima Online continue in the future?

    It's beyond stupid...

    The more people that drop vendors, the more shards become wastelands, and UO continues it's downward spiral.

    Why promote a policy that makes your game look empty and devoid of players. Is that the strategy for attracting and maintaining new players?

    Or do you believe a game which looks vibrant, and allows players to get the equipment, spells, books, and armor they needs in order to get started in UO will better promote UO's longevity?

    We need a gold sink in the economy! :coco: The bank of Britain should be paying me interest on my gold I have deposited in their coffers!

    If UO continues it's downwards spiral and attrition of it's playerbase, then eventually there isn't even going to be a game with an economy that needs to be balanced via gold sinks/vendor fees.

    I think it's far more important to make the game look vibrant than try and balance economy which has been plagued by duping, cheating, exploiting and god knows what else.
     
  50. The Craftsman

    The Craftsman Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    676
    Well said