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Vendor Cost: Holy Crap, Highway Robbery!

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Eric Ravenwind, Nov 10, 2011.

  1. Eric Ravenwind

    Stratics Veteran Gilfane

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    45,000 per day? This needs to be reduced; im spending more money paying this vendor than im making.

    Please reduce the vendor daily cost by at least 40%.
     
  2. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    a lot of people pay tons more than that based on what they're selling. If my vendors cost 500k a day, thats probably normal.
     
  3. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    300K a day every day. It's nothing to sweat about if your selling stuff.
     
  4. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    You can also purchase earrings (called Merchant's Trinkets) from the uogamecode store for your vendor to wear which reduce the vendor fees by 10% each day that the vendor is wearing the earrings when the fee is collected.

    You could also lower your prices.
     
  5. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    #1 your items are overpriced and not selling. Reduce prices.
    #2 your using items as displays and are eating up your profit. Use bags with discriptions of get a book and title it with the item name and place next to bag and just hit Esc when you place it on your vendor.
     
  6. I get charged 100 to 200k a vendor. I must have nearly 1 million in daily vendor fees.

    I've made nearly 2 billion selling stuff.

    Sorry... you are selling the wrong stuff or price things poorly.

    You don't need to pay vendor fees at all... stand at luna and list the stuff in your paperdoll. It is free but time consuming. And it is a 100% decrease in vendor fees. You can't beat that.

    Or you can pay vendor fees and play othe aspects of the game.
     
  7. KingHen

    KingHen Seasoned Veteran
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    I concur.

    Sell what sells quickly. Got a weird or quirky item, make runes and promote the heck out of it... If it doesn't sell take it down after a day or two and throw it in your nearest auction.

    again, sell what sells quickly... adjust your prices accordingly.
     
  8. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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    Vendor fees are absurd and the system needs to be changed. I don't know how many more threads we need on the subject but we always get a handful of people saying everything is "alright" (see above). Well it isn't. The current system blows doors and isn't good for the game.

    Any fees or penalties should coincide at the time of purchase. How long an item sits on a vendor should have no bearing. And you can address people hoarding items on vendors by having it linked to house capacity storage.

    The current Vendor system is not good for the game and I've seen many beautiful shops go under.:(
     
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  9. There not absurd. They are adjusted to inflation.

    Sorry that is the way it should be.

    Put you stuff out on the weekend. Set good price. Drop some runes and youll sell your stuff. No problem.
     
  10. yanaki2

    yanaki2 Sage
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    45k per day??? thats what my inscription vendor charges me... my event item vendors charge me 10 times that regularly... heck a the last rares fest my vendor was charging me something around 2.2 mil per day.. its all based on the value of the items on them. try running a vendor mall with 30 vendors and 1-2 bil in goods and then talk to me about 45k in fees.
     
  11. Eric Ravenwind

    Stratics Veteran Gilfane

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    Why would you just roll over and accept something like that?
     
  12. Symma

    Symma Certifiable
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    I see no problem in vendor fees. The system works fine as it is.

    I get by with the fees on Siege, I'm sure people can cope on Prodo :)
     
  13. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    Vendor price and charging is clear, the vendor costs scale with what you price your goods at, if you pay attention to your vendor's info it clearly tell you what the costs of your goods will be....

    If you knowingly agree to a contract you've no basis for screaming about it later - and if you didn't pay attention to the info on your vendor, then sorry but it's nobody's fault but yours. The system works fine for plenty of people, sure they might prefer a lower rate of charges but they seem perfectly content with what is on offer already.

    It's not about 'rolling over', it's about understanding what you are doing. Clearly you didn't.
     
  14. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    The vendor fee is what, something like 1/2 of one percent of the selling price per RL day?

    If whatever your selling sits on a vendor long enough that that low an amount of vendor fee is a problem, there apparently isn't any real demand for that item or your charging more for it than people are willing to pay. Try an auction at a lower starting price or stash it in a chest until there's a demand for that item.

    I set up a reagent vendor selling mage, necro, and mystic reagents in 10k quantities at 5x the npc cost to cover the near full day spent building up the vendor quantities and buying a half million to 3/4 million reagent stock. There was a scattering of sales and then the sales of the mystic & necro reagents stopped and I dropped the price to 4x npc cost and eventually stopped offering them. Of the mage reagents only the nightshade & ginseng sell well so I now only sell the four reagents involved in plant growing.

    If what your offering isn't selling, there's clearly no demand for it, try selling something people want at a price they are willing to pay.

    While you may feel it's worth a couple tons of gold, if the buyers think it's only worth a half ton of gold, it's not going to sell.
     
  15. Lady CaT

    Lady CaT Seasoned Veteran
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    Oh my god vendors! I've completely forgotten about them!

    I think I have some of those somewhere??

    *tries to remember where she put iron maiden keys*
     
  16. What do you mean?

    You want to sell your item for best price right? You want the other guy to roll over and pay the price you want? Right?

    We all roll over equally.

    If you dont want to pay 45k for selling a several million gold item.... price that item for 100k. The vendor fee is much cheaper.

    But I think you are wanting to be able to price items as you wish (which I agree) but you don't want to pay the vendor fees.

    That is the cost of business. There are no vendor fees if you sell them from your Avatar.
     
  17. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    Problem with vendor pricing - you have two choices...


    Assume you are selling an item like a soulstone fragment that is worth approx 1m gold.

    You have 2 choices:

    1 - Sell for less so it sells quickly - say 900k. You have virtually no vendor fees (gone in a day or less) but only get 900k.

    2 - Sell for more than its worth and wait until someone comes along to buy it. Price at 1,250,000. Sits on vendor a week. You lose 200k in fees but net 1,050,000.


    With option 1 - you pay little in vendor fees but item is gone and vendor is always empty.

    With option 2 -You get closer to the value of the item and your vendor looks 'stocked' as it waits for items to sell.

    Many people go with option 2 and that is part of the reason Luna prices are high. If you wanna keep a vendor stocked with items and still turn a profit you need to charge more to pay for the vendor fees.

    With no vendor fees - people would be encouraged to sell items closer to the actual value.

    The idea of vendor fees is to take gold out, discourage use of vendors as 'storage' and to encourage market or just below market pricing.

    What has happened as it is has encouraged slighly overpricing to make up for vendor fees.
     
  18. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    ????am sick of this crap...

    u pay to sell...this is the same as real life so grow up!!!

    go sell at the bank.... your waste for many hours spamming lol o lol

    jeeze 100k per day is the normal..and u can still rake gold in bigtime massive...

    what are u selling fishsteaks???and bandages????
     
  19. Salivern_Diago

    Salivern_Diago Lore Master
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    If your a good seller, you dont have the issue of overpricning as you price your goods to sell. I never have my prime goods on my vendors for more than 48 hours.

    If your having issues with vendor fee's... Then lower your prices so they sell.

    It really isnt that hard to understand :/
     
  20. Doubleplay

    Doubleplay Lore Keeper
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    If you are in a low traffic area, then vendor fees absolutely keep you from doing business. Sure, you all will come back with "drop a bunch of runes, be creative", and you have a point to some extent. That, however obviously does not work in the long run as demonstrated by the fact you can literally find no vendors outside Luna. Even the houses outside the walls do little business. In the day it was fun to travel the lands looking for a good deal. Most vendors on houses were around the mountains and at entrances to dungeons. As soon as vendor fees were introduced, all vendor activity came to a screeching halt.

    Sirs, your arguments about the reasonableness and appropriateness of the vendor fees are not supported by the facts. Your argument sustains the Luna bazaar at the expense of the rest of Sosaria.
     
  21. Njjj

    Njjj Journeyman
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    Not the way I remember it. Seems to me vendor activity has followed shard population.
     
  22. Salivern_Diago

    Salivern_Diago Lore Master
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    Dude all my shops have always been outside of Luna. Up till recently I had a mini-mall in the middle of Malas that made be hundreds of millions just by dropping runes.

    Also when I go running around I see loads of vendors with stuff on (Overpriced normally). I dont knwo what shard your on, but it sounds rather dead to me.
     
  23. Lexfixr

    Lexfixr Seasoned Veteran
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    There is a simple answer for your problem STOP USING VENDORS AND STAND IN BRITAIN OR LUNA OR WHEREVER YOU LIKE AND SELL FROM YOUR CHARACTER

    Vendor costs are what they are-- in rl you if you have a shop (and I do) you pay for rent, heat, light, taxes, salaries and more.

    We all factor in the cost of vendors in UO and price accordingly. Like many have said if your not making money then your product is too common or not needed or your prices are too high.
     
  24. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    altho there's many other free options, I had completely forgot about this. I used to do that at WBB, back when you could make a living selling horses and ostards. Thanks for the memories.
     
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  25. Wizal the Fox

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    The problem is more complex than some think, it really depends on 2 factors regarding the items you are trying to sell:

    - Low Value High Demand : No problem of course, that's typically the common resources
    - High Value High Demand : No problem, they don't stay long on vendor
    - Low Value Low Demand : Acceptable since the daily cost is minimal
    - High Value Low Demand : Now HERE is the major problem

    High Value Low Demand is typically items that are rare but that not everyone buy everyday. If there are many variants it costs a fortune to put them all on vendor. For example say you burn 10 Valorite Runic Hammers to craft a specific weapon you need, so you keep 1 and have sell 149, most of them beeing very good but all slightly differents. If you put them all on vendor chances are you won't sell them fast enough to even cover the fees, even if you put the price at half the market value, so you end up having to sell them one by one, and not only will it take months, but your customers have less choice. The same issue can be have with rare deco items coming in various colors, High End BODs, etc...
     
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  26. Hell's Ironworks

    Hell's Ironworks Seasoned Veteran
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    Nailed it.
     
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  27. Njjj

    Njjj Journeyman
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    - High Value Low Demand : Now HERE is the major problem

    Well, really what you're talking about here is high QUALITY low demand. The low demand part lowers the market value. Just like real life. To follow your example, there ready aren't very well defined market prices for val hammer items because they are unique. People tend to over price them. You see then sitting on luna vendors also.
     
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  28. Adapt or go out of business.
     
  29. Wizal the Fox

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    Yeah but in real life you don't pay a rent on the value of your stock. The same location is at the same price regardless of the fact that you have pizzas or diamonds in stock. And for sales tax you only pay on what you sell obviously. So yes if you have high stocks you usually lower the prices, but not to the same point as you would have to do in the game if you were to put a lot of those low demand items.

    I actually think the best way to deal with vendors would be to pay a rental fee depending of the location of vendor (the closest to a moongate the highest fee, double fee if it's in guarded zone, half fee if it's in Fel), plus a Sales Tax on what you sell. And include the vendor's inventory in the number of house lockdowns so people don't abuse them for storage (raise house storage limit by 10% once when you implement this change)
     
  30. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    If the cost is too high and things aren't moving perhaps it's time to adjust the prices???

    I love how folk always tell me "Well it's selling in Luna for X Gold." To which I reply... "Just because you see something sitting on a vendor for X Gold does NOT mean it's "Selling"..." If it were really "Selling"... You wouldn't see it day after day week after week...

    Just saying.
     
  31. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    I have to agree with my son and the rest of them. You have no consept of what selling items is about if 45k has got your panties in a bind.
    Vendor cost is moot when you look at the sales of items. If your not making gold then change what your selling or lower the price.
    OK I can see a beginner at this having a cow over the cost... now if you have say a large amount to sell it can get pricey if your not willing to watch over your vendor and put a few on at a time......
    Look kiddo... If your not selling then the advertizing by runes or gating might be in your future. Now i will say as a vendor keeper on a dozen shards there are days when items dont go no matter how nice the price. Then there are days I cant keep them stocked fast enough!

    You know I never bother to look what my vendors are charging me a day. Hehe, i just stuff them with gold for a year and sell what i have to sell an dont bother with the small stuff like cost. It all equils out in the end.
     
  32. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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    Vendor fees should be a flat fee regardless of how many items or how much your selling things for. I pay to rent a spot and I pay someone to work. End of subject. Why should there be any other BS fees involved?

    Show me a business model anywhere on the planet earth that's success and operates that way!

    The Dev is a numbskull that came up with the idea of vendor fees based as a percentage of what your charging. Now that it's been implemented for years on end we got a large majority of the playerbase "brainwashed" into thinking it's fine.

    It's not fine...someone shouldn't have to charge less than an item is worth because they don't want to incur fees involved.

    We got a bunch of socialist running rampant here on stratics.

    These idiotic gold sinks that people believe we need are a detriment to the game. If you must have gold sinks put the SOMEWHERE ELSE in the game.

    Malas Castle Raffle or something along those lines.

    I doubt many people posting feedback in this thread have played on some of the less populated shards where fees and item availability are an issue.

    The Devs can shove the vendor fees up their ass as far as I'm concerned. I've seen the damage it's done to the game. I've seen shards malls emptied out and I've seen some of the best shops outside of luna go belly up. That's not good for the game.

    A simply change to have the "fee" deducted at the time of purchase isn't going to hurt anyone and will only help the game.

    But NOOOOO......we get people on here clamoring that all is well and that we need to lower our prices.
     
  33. Herman

    Herman Seasoned Veteran
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    Magincia lottery took out what 50-100Billion? Whats that a week of vendor fees? i would guess not even that it s nothing
    Vendor fees is the only gold sink worth anything this game have but i can understand it can be a problem on low pop shards

    I m all for gold devaluation do away with two 0 after that think about what change to do to vendor fees
    But people have discuss this before and was against it so it probably never will happen
     
  34. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    I'm not trying to be critical, so please don't take it that way. But in RL or in UO, if there's a real demand for what one is selling and the prices are reasonable, business is usually profitable. If there is limited demand for what one is selling and prices are higher than most people are willing to pay, the business can't succeed.

    When running a business in RL, the overhead costs of stocking, paying employees, renting the building, etc. don't decrease just because no one is buying. If I was in that boat right now and needed to make a profit, I'd have to reevaluate both the goods I was offering and their prices, and make whatever adjustments might seem necessary.
     
  35. Wizal the Fox

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    I'm getting tired of hearing things along the lines of "It works the same as in real life". This is utter BS:

    - IRL you pay a rent according to how good the location is and the space you need for storing/displaying the products (and you would have a warehouse somewhere else). The value of your stock has no impact on the rent you pay.

    - IRL you pay a salary to your employees according to what they sell and/or how good they are at selling, certainly not according to how much unsold stock there is in the shop.

    - IRL you pay every year property tax according to the value of the house you buy. I can't wait to see the intown plots of Luna and Magincia taxed to death every day and hear those same "It works the same as in real life" people crying.

    The problem with most of those "everything is fine" people is that they have a short term one sided vision of things. Yes it is easy to make money with vendors and all you have to do is sell the right items at the right price. But FROM A BUYER's point of view there are many items that you will never see on a vendor because of the fees. I don't remember the last time I saw a high end BOD shop for instance, but on most shards it was really many many years ago. And this is just ONE example.
     
  36. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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    FINALLY....the voice of reason and sound logic!:thumbup1:

    I've seen first hand the negative impact the current vendor system has had over time on multiple shards.

    It's beyond idiotic by the Devs not to change the system just to promote the game. If you want UO to continue forward in the future that in the interest of the 'game' to have vendor shops throughout ALL shards stocked.

    You don't want new players running around on empty shards where they can't get items. You also don't want them running around on shards that look like their 'dead' even if in fact they are.

    It's not rocket science people.

    I'm not advocating a change to the system because I can't afford the fees (which I think are BS to begin with) it's because I have seen first hand shops and players disappear.

    It's a downward spiral...I don't get what's so hard to understand. Go visit some of the other shards in Luna that were once plush with vendors are now empty.

    Many are not seeing the big picture and certaintly those who should "know" better..i.e Devs seems absolutlely clueless.

    UO needs everything going for it to continue on going forward into the future.

    If a fee must be taken...do it at the time of sale.
     
  37. Pfloyd

    Pfloyd Colorblind Collector
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    Just because it's called vendor fees doesn't mean that is all they took into account. There are things called taxes and if they are basing the fees on a percentage of the price then that is exactly what is happening here...

    People just need to get it into their head that that is what is happening.
     
  38. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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    Call it whatever you want it's bad for the game the way it's currently implemented.
     
  39. Wizal the Fox

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    I don't know where you live, but while I know about taxes on sales and taxes on profits, I am not aware of any country taxing unsold stocks. Well, if this is the case in your country, I am really curious to see a bookstore there, especially one paying 1% per day on every book in the store, selling or not... or are the bookstores selling only 10 different books? Or are there any bookstores in your imaginary country?
     
  40. HD2300

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    So many things are counter-intuitive.

    Randomised resources. Bazaar vendors when everyone just wanted a global search. High vendor fees which discourages players selling things. The latest WTF is shard shields or whatever, way to p*ss off all p(l)ayers but 14th year vets.
     
  41. Pfloyd

    Pfloyd Colorblind Collector
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    It may be bad for the game but it's not so bad that people are leaving because they can't buy what they need to play. I think you are exaggerating the problem.

    If it were so bad then a demand for something other than vendors would have presented itself.
     
  42. Pfloyd

    Pfloyd Colorblind Collector
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    Don't talk about rl if you can't back it up with simple examples. Your analogy is flawed in that unsold merchandise in any store DOES impact the success of that company/store. Just because UO's vendor "fees" simplifies it into a percent charge per day for the stock doesn't change the fact that trying to sell a book or a car in the same store would take different sales strategies and costs for each in that it COULD be simplified into just a percentage per day charge.

    You say there are things that you would never find on a UO vendor because of these fees. This is also a multi player game. Those items don't have to be exclusive to vendors. There are people that put books with contact info stating they have these high dollar items for sale.

    Should people stock vendors with books that can't be bought with contact info for these items thus bypassing vendor fees altogether?
     
  43. Pfloyd

    Pfloyd Colorblind Collector
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    QFT
     
  44. Wizal the Fox

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    Spoken like a true businessman but again a one sided TRADER view only. How is the BUYER supposed to adapt about not finding the items he wants for sale because the vendors only supply things that sell very fast?

    I have taken a bookstore as an example of a shop which supplies many different items that don't individually sell fast. A kind of shop that couldn't exist if it had to pay a tax on every single item it has in store everyday. If that is not simple enough for you, I'm sure there are people smart enough to understand here.

    The flawed thinking is all yours: some products are designed to sell fast (food), some products are designed to sell over many months or even years (antiques). The cost COULD be simplified to a daily percentage, but it wouldn't be the same at all for the 2 products. A fresh food product would actually cost 100% per day since you would trash it if unsold, but a rare stamp would cost nearly nothing (and could even actually gain value over time). It is impossible to simplify sales of completely different products to a same unique percentage per day.
     
  45. Pfloyd

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    No it wouldn't and UO has. It's called what we have now.
     
  46. Njjj

    Njjj Journeyman
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    This.

    You can't just focus on RL rent or salaries or whatever. There are details on both sides of this argument. For example, you are not taking into account that in RL, money that is tied up in inventory is losing value because it is not available to be invested elsewhere.

    There is a cost to keep the doors open for any business. That cost increases based on the value and turnaround time of inventory. Businesses are always evaluating the minimum inventory level required to meet customer needs.

    Truth is, I've always been impressed with how WELL the vendor system in this game works. The people with good business sense make money with them, those without, don't.
     
  47. Njjj

    Njjj Journeyman
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    Antique shop: high markup therefore can afford to maintain inventory longer. Fact remains, the longer it takes to sell an item, the less profitable it is.
     
  48. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    First of all, let's get one thing straight. UO isn't rl. There is no reason for anything in UO to make sense compared to rl. UO is a virtual fantasy world. It does not have to parallel rl. Sometimes it might and I'm sure most can think up examples that do. There's more about UO that has nothing comparable to rl than is.

    That said, I've never liked the way vendors were implemented using daily fees. I believe that's the way it was done originally in order to prevent players from using vendors as storage. Later changes eliminated the vendor shuffle which players used to avoid the fees.

    Personally, I say leave the vendor system the way it is and put in, finally, an auction house. You put your item up for auction. It can't be abused just for storage and whatever fees there are will be taken out when the item sells.
     
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  49. Njjj

    Njjj Journeyman
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    You're right, we don't need to parallel real life. But for whatever reason, I think most people want any game's economic system to follow basic RL economic principles.
     
  50. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    It doesn't?

    You sell things people want at reasonable (from the customers viewpoint) prices, and things sell fast with little overhead costs to the seller.

    You sell things people don't want, or at too high a price, and things don't sell and overhead costs pile up and cost the seller a lot of money.

    Sounds very real life.

    One thing I always find amusing are the Players selling arrows & bolts at 2 or 3 times the NPC vendor prices.

    "Dang it!! No ones buying my commodity deeds of 1000 arrows! I'm only charging 40 gold per arrow!!! Why will hardly anyone buy them!!"

    "Well, actually it's quite simple oh greedy one. <chuckles> The NPC vendors sell them at just 13 gold with the price going up just 1 gold per thousand. I can buy two or three times as many arrows from them for the same amount of gold, oh brilliant businessman. :)"