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Vendor fees are so outrageous people are shutting theirs down

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Larry, Mar 24, 2009.

  1. Larry

    Larry Guest

    The rapid decline of vendors in-game is just plain sad, especially non-luna vendors which pretty much don't exist anymore.

    The point of vendors is to be able to sell many goods long-term. If you want to sell a single item you can spam the bank. The problem is that the fees are so ridiculous that people are actually losing money on their vendors. My vendor which I recently had to shut down, was moderately stocked with decent goods. My vendor fee was 750k per day, which is straight up insane. My runic armor and weapons were a few mil a piece, so I sell one per day on a good day. It's just not worth it, I spend more time giving my vendor checks than taking them off.

    I can't even imagine the real high end vendors stocked with 40+ mil jewels and weapons. The point is that the fees outweigh the profits, especially in non-luna areas. They need to be adjusted, or you will see more and more bank spammers and less vendors. Almost 1 million gold per fee day is asinine.
     
  2. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Think of it this way. The game is punishing you for selling in-game items for so much. Drop your prices and your vendor fees will drop...la
     
  3. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    LOL
    u have NO clue,main u can post anything :wall:
     
  4. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    thats a known uo-strategy :
    no vendors is better then many
    empty dungeons are better then full
    less paying customer are better then many
    and so on

    i had forecast what will happen with vendors,after the last change
    bud nobody listen
    (they listen to us? WHERE?)
     
  5. Coldren

    Coldren Sage
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    ... Gold Sink FTW?

    Sorry.. Feeling snarky today... Had to say it. :D
     
  6. Setnaffa

    Setnaffa Certifiable
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    Supply and Demand.

    Very true statement with the current Vendor Fee model. If you have too many high-priced items on your vendor that aren't selling, you need to drop your prices down.

    To have a 750K daily fee, you must have items worth multi-millions of gold on that vendor. I have a vendor with probably 20 million worth of items and his daily fee is nowhere near 750K per day.

    Is the OP on Siege?

    I have 4 Luna vendors - 2 on Napa and 2 on Pacific. I make about 50 million a month selling BOD Rewards, armor, and weapons. I've had to drop my prices on my armor and weapons, but BOD rewards (runic hammers, CBD's, PoF's) sell as fast as I stock them.
     
  7. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Got English?...la
     
  8. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    Blame inflation.
     
  9. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Yeah! *shakes fist*
    I should be able to earn my millions without having to pay so much! *shakes fist more*
    Darn vendor fees impeding on my profits!!!

    /silly complaint
     
  10. Fox (Europa)

    Fox (Europa) Guest

    I wouldn't mind if the gold the vendors take was actually used for something, like it was sold to pay an extra dev or given to a charity for black lesbian single mothers or whatever. Its just that the fees are there to stop people using a vendor as storage i.e. legit players are once again made to suffer by EA for the actions of others because its easier for EA than finding a proper solution.
     
  11. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    I agree with Rico, lower your prices and knock off the greed and you guys wouldn't have these problems.........the chosen few seriously thinks everyone buys gold and is filthy (ingame) rich.

    I say leave em as is.
     
  12. would you favor a flat 10% "tax" ?
     
  13. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    No new taxes...la
     
  14. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    Someone in another thread had a good idea, which was to give non-Luna vendors a discount on their vendor fees.

    The real problem with vendors IMO is that 3rd party site makes running non-Luna vendors a waste of time since it is so much more time effecient to just look up the exact item you need instead of roaming the countryside for hours.

    As much as some people may hate it, a global vendor system would be so much better. Although I'm sure all those Luna merchants would ***** up a storm, but considering most of them are either dupers, scripters or just general scum bags..... I couldn't care less.
     
  15. Grumm

    Grumm Guest

    The players are doing it to themselves. Stop asking 18 mil for an average piece of armor. I run 6 vendors and will never have trouble maintaining them. Then again, I am not asking 13 mil for a Val Tunic with only 2 decent mods on it. These prices are not of the OPs. Just stating a couple of the hundreds of hyper inflated prices I have seen on GL.

    If you want to contribute to the wretched state of the UO economy, be prepared to pay the price.

    This kind of pricing futher fuels gold farming and scripting. Not that farming and scripting need any more help.
     
  16. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    Charging the going rate is now greedy? If you put items up for cheaper people will likely buy to resell. Then you end up with much less than if you sold for the going rate.

    This is a problem tied to inflation. An item that once cost 5,000 gold is now selling for 2 million. When it was 5,000 gold it only cost 10 gold per day to keep on a vendor. Now it costs 4,000 gold per day.
     
  17. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    It's crazy how much you people on the production shards pay/charge for certain items. From time to time i will pop onto a production shard and check out Felucca, while there I'll check out vendors and prices...sheesh...I can't imagine paying what you do, then again, I'll bet many of you play in Trammel a lot and farm the hell out of it.

    Thanks but no thanks...I'll stick to Siege...la
     
  18. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    If someone is willing to pay 8M for an item you got during your regular gameplay wouldn't you take it?
    *blinks*
    I just don't understand why the vendor owners are being blamed for the prices.
    As long as there are people willing to pay there will be people more than willing to accept their gold.
    There's so much gold in the game right now that it doesn't really matter anyway... I mean what's 8M when you have a billion?
     
  19. Alright.

    Look your prices are too high. If you items are not selling then no-one wants them. Im not sure what the problem is.

    I vend as my UO pleasure.

    If I price things to high they dont sell. In a week I cut the price down.


    To those whinning about LUNA LUNA LUNA. Get a vendor there. Lots of nice folks will charge you 50k a week for a vendor. WHAT 50k? Well if Luna is so hot as you say youll make 10 mill a week. Whats a mere 50k.

    What? Drop runes? Well lots of succesfull malls do this and have great business.

    BUT BUT BUT THE bottom line is you dont have what people want at the prices they want to pay then you stuff wont sell.

    ARGH. AM I wrong here or what.

    Here is an example.
    I am in luna (yes I pay rental fees)
    I sell silver. I had 10k of silver for 3 million. Yes 3 million.

    Why? To see what I could get for it. It stayed on my vendor for 8 days. With all my stuff on I lost 256k a day in vendor fees.

    YOU KNOW what... I dropped my silver price to 2 million per 10k and sold all of it. Now I am out of silver. I was charging to much. BINGO.

    PS. yes you can get a lot for silver in luna because people have stupid amounts of gold and dont want to farm silver so they buy it for gold and buy there faction gear. Try it.
     
  20. Flutter you are right. Silly amounts of gold. Plenty to spend. If you cant sell on vendors then you dont have the right stuff or your charging to much even in this trillion gold UO economy.
     
  21. Grumm

    Grumm Guest

    It's a catch 22 Flutter. Player A charges more and more each time something sells. Players B, C and D farm gold all day. Player A sees that people will pay whatever they charge and keep raising prices. The other players farm even more gold. Now we have a glut of gold just being passed around from player to player.

    Of course this took years to get to the sorry state the UO economy is now. Scripting, duping and going item based didn't help either.

    I'll never have 8 mil gold at one time, let alone a billion. As I always said though, if you don't like the prices, don't buy it. We have up to seven character slots and I use two for crafting so I am not sucked into UOs massive economic vortex.

    On a side note, I have to wonder how many people actually check other vendors for pricing purposes. I saw an item for sale (can't recall what it was) on a vendor for 2,999,999 and as (whatever religous being you pray to) is my witness, in the same house two vendors over was the same item for 150,000.
     
  22. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    It most certainly is not a catch 22. There is little in this game right now (aside from some rares) that you can't go out and get for yourself. People pay for convenience. People pay so they don't have to go out there and do Doom until they get an ornament. That doesn't mean anyone HAS to pay.
    I can farm about 10K silver in less than an hour. I cannot keep my vendor stocked at 10K silver for 2Mil gold. What does that say to me? It tells me that lazy people will pay for anything. Some people have better things to do with their game play than spend time getting silver, arties, replicas, etc. They're the ones keeping the vendors running. They're the ones buying up the gold from brokers. And THEY are the ones you should be complaining about.
    The only thing that you're at a disadvantage for is duped runics or the few rares we have left in the game that haven't become "Replicas" or early order expansion gifts.
     
  23. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    The thing is, even if you sell for the logical amount, or even cheaper, you can most likely end up with a ridiculous vendor fee.
    I came across a Heartwood Runic Fletching kit, which goes for around 12-15mil
    I sell it for 10mil. With the vendor fees that means around 70k a day. That is just ridiculous for me! I may have a decent house place in fel, but it still isn't enough for me to pay 70k a day hoping that it sells fast.

    I think the least they could do is remove the vendor fees from Fel. Then again I say that because that's where my vendor is set up.
     
  24. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
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    Wouldn't it be better to get the lower price rather than nothing from it going unsold? If another person wants to be an idiot and resell it for too much, let them.

    The only way for prices to go down is for people to charge less, and obviously those who have an edge set the prices as high as they can and keep pushing them upwards. The only way the market will start to go down is if everyone swallows their pride and takes a loss for a while... adding gold or taxes into the system won't help, only the overchargers failing under their own overpriced stock and someone new with reasonable prices coming up in their place can fix things. That's just the way the economy works.

    Obvious argument would be "but the scripters and cheaters keep getting more stock and won't ever drop their prices so why should I". The answer to this is the fact that they continue to increase their prices as it is profitable to do so. If the majority of the marketplace would drop their prices enough and keep them at that level, even with their buying and reselling, people will notice the lower prices eventually, especially if they're advertised openly, and will patronize the cheaper vendors alomst exclusively. In time it will reach the point that it will no longer be profitable for the overpriced stuff to be sold, and they'll either drop their prices or fail completely.

    There is literally nothing the devs can do to fix the ingame economy.. it's entirely up to the players. Them stepping in only sets up more frustrations as the weasels figure out ways to worm around whatever the devs add to try to stop them, leaving the honest players to deal with the added burdens.
     
  25. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    That is entirely incorrect. Economies can and are controlled. A game economy is just like a real world economy except you have much greater control over it. That is if you choose to exorcise that control, which UO has never done. Which is the exact opposite of some other games which actually have people on staff to monitor the stability of their in-game economies.
     
  26. Littleblue

    Littleblue Seasoned Veteran
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    This is sort of on-topic, I hope! :D

    I desperately need to finish cleaning out my homes of old IDOC loot, which is what I geared my newbies up with upon returning to Sosaria - you would be amazed at what would be left behind that was really helpful and valuable to someone starting out. I've got lots of jewels and armor that would be helpful for a new player or character. Being frugal in RL seems to carry over to my in-game habits....I can't bear to trash all of it. Ideally I'd like to put together some basic LRC suits and Jewel sets for different skills and find players that could use them. I know I can just dump the stuff at New Haven, but I'd rather put it on a couple of vendors at my Zento home. It's a safe location, and easy to find from the moongate, so new characters could get there easily.

    Ok....what I am getting to is this...Can I set up Vendors with Free goods on them, and if so, what kind of daily fees will I be looking at paying? I am hoping minimal to none, as all the items will be Free for whoever can use them. Perhaps a nominal charge for the nicer things or deco I come across while cleaning. Anyhow, is this a viable option?

    It would be easy to organize the different things on the vendors so that someone might have a chance of finding something useful. Plus, the items would be safe from decay if no one in need happened by while I was cleaning. I could just drop some runes now and then at New Haven Bank, perhaps someone would benefit.

    So...all of that for this little question...How much will this cost me, if anything, to setup? I know nothing about vendors, hehe. :eek:
     
  27. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    Set a price of zero - you'll just the basic nominal fee for a vendor (60? per day - no matter the number of free items)
     
  28. Tek

    Tek Seasoned Veteran
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    If my items don’t sell if a few days, week, or whatever I decide upon- I lower my prices. The items I sell are only worth what another player will pay for them and whatever they do with the item afterwards (i.e. resell it) is entirely up to that player. I run multiple Luna vendors in strategic locations, I sell at volume to make money – selling more items at a lower price than other Luna vendors and making substantial amounts of money doing so.
     
  29. Jhym

    Jhym Guest

    I have about 850K, can I get a discount?

    :)
     
  30. Jhym

    Jhym Guest

    There are at least four vendors I know of that do that on Chessie, none in Luna of course.

    But my shopping trips can last hours, especially if I'm in a stealthing mood.
     
  31. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    I shut mine down for the time being, not due to the fees charged, but due to lack of sales and lack of time to keep the thing adequately stocked for such sales.

    As for prices charged, I sold smithing BOD rewards (runics and PoFs well UNDER Luna prices and was sitting on about a dozen jars of powder that hadn't sold in months when I took it down.

    Vendor fees don't bother me, I just wish there were a system that allowed vendor stocks to be seen in a more centralized manner. That may be the ONE thing I liked about WoW better than UO... I LOVED the auction house system in WoW. It became a game within itself due to how it gave a centralized (non-government version of "centralized") method of selling items.
     
  32. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    I would like to see the vendor take the percentage out each time the item is put on a vendor even if its just to change the price or just sold, not this per day BS. But then again not as much gold will be leaving the economy so I guess its kinda pointless being stuck in a catch 22.
     
  33. I know for a fact this is not true. Player A can sell something and keep upping his/her prices, but Player C (for Connor :D) does regular price comparisons and undercuts Players A & B on a regular basis. This continues over time until the customers that used to buy from Players A & B have switched over to Player C because he is providing the same thing for a lower price, and has it stocked regularly. Player C now gets the business while the others are watching their vendor fees eating up the gold stored on their vendors. They even try to buy out Player C, but he keeps backstock and never puts everything he has out at one time, so the vendor still stays stocked. This eventually forces Players A & B to lower their prices in order to be able to sell anything.
     
  34. uoBuoY

    uoBuoY Guest

    Apply for a government bail-out. Should be able to get a few billion.
     
  35. Barrakketh

    Barrakketh Guest


    What a total load of crap JC , but I expect it from you. The going rate for items shouldnt be in the millions its why the game has become dependent on gold sellers.

    As the above poster stated you find or make something for free basically so even if you get 1000 gold for it you got a 1000 gold at no cost to you , anything else and your just a re-seller and re-selling shouldnt pay as much as selling the original item.
     
  36. Ravahan

    Ravahan Guest

    rtl

    I would like to say that the current attitude toward any non-luna vendor is pretty rediculous. I have an excellent spot, which I have personally made about... er... If I had to guess 25 mil at, and I've probably only had a vendor at this spot for half the time I've owned it because I sold out of goods faster than I could stock them.

    Yet I had to trash a book today I've had locked down on my steps to let people know the basics of my vendor because, after testing a little with another non-friended char, they couldn't open the book unless it was set to "anyone" and people would, on a daily bassis, tell me what a noob I am for trying to set up a vendor by a freaking moongate, some actually going so far as to call me a liar for saying I've made good money there.

    Its stupifying.

    On top of that, I'm having trouble keeping people there because once they sell out, they're done. Having a mall in today's UO is a lot more likely to induce a stroke than I remember it being a few years ago, when I owned the exact same plot.

    edit: Oh yeah, and vendor prices are fine as-is. Just stop trying to sell stuff for so much, you'll move a lot more merchandise and make a better profit long-term.
     
  37. Bomb Bloke

    Bomb Bloke Lore Keeper
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    I suppose the question isn't so much whether people can afford to stock venders so much as whether they can be bothered.

    I mean, loading a vendor with gold/checks each day in order to sell stuff and make more gold? I'd far rather just go out and bash some heads, in my own time.
     
  38. Well I don't sell million dollar stuff or feel bad for ppl paying fees for doing so.

    But I woulld say from my experience the fees can get a lil tedious for a weekend warrior like myself. I used to run some humble vendors with consumables and other low priced items like rune books, scrolls and tools, that sort of thing... More of a community offering so to speak for other players in need of stuff like that, nothing to do with making gold really.

    While I could easily hunt for stuff to pay the fees as I wasn't selling high priced stuff it seemed kinda pointless after a while when I felt like I was trying to help other players out, to have to actually "pay" to do so.

    I still make things for players for free but I decided to stop throwing my gold away into the abyss, i'd rather give the gold to players that need it.

    Not a good policy on UO's part really if they wish to have good community.
     
  39. Dragonchilde

    Dragonchilde Guest

    Red leaves. :) Freeze the contents of the book, then people can't change the text.

    I rent a Luna vendor for 25k a week. I sell my resources for on average 20k per lether deed LESS than anyone else in Luna.

    I can't keep the stuff in stock! i've made several million a week when I bother to stock it. You know those stupid, up-in-the-millions prices you see in Luna? You keep seeing them. They keep sitting. They're just sitting there. There are several vendors right next to me that have the same items they had when I first set up... weeks ago. I know we're getting traffic, because I'm making hand over fist! LEGITIMATELY.

    Even when I had a vendor in my house, regular rune drops kept people coming.

    Instead of keeping hundreds of millions on your vendor...just sell a couple items a time. Keep a book with your list of items on your steps.

    If you're really charging what people are paying, the items wouldn't be sitting there. They'd be you know... selling.
     
  40. Olahorand

    Olahorand Slightly Crazed
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    Maybe it would make sense, to adjust fees based on the single item prices - reduce the fees for low price items and increase them for high end stuff.

    I.e. if an item costs:
    0-25000 GP the vendor fees for these items would be 0, thus supporting stocking items in the lower price range without loosing money, if the stuff is not instantly sold.
    25001 - 100000 GP next level, half of the current vendor fee for these parts
    100001 - 1000000 GP next level at current vendor fee for these parts
    1000001 - 10000000 GP double of the current vendor fee for these parts
    > 10000000 GP triple the current vendor fee for these parts

    (And fix the current workarounds to circumvent the penalty.)
    *Salute*
    Olahorand
     
  41. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    wasn´t the hightime of gold for cash before the age of items(AoS)?
    but anyway, truth and fact´s people dont like to read

    sure, items SHOULD cost millions and millions,IF they are worth it !
    example:
    bevore leuro made doom like test shard(give arti)
    you got maybe 1 time in a month a Orny or HoM, , so what, should player who spent so much time in doom, sell those items, for 100k???
    it ALL depends on effort/reward
    if i spent so much insurence gold and arrows and PoF and TIME in doom, i want a fair price for it.
    counter example:
    WHY is the price for scrolls like magery 120, and such, STILL so high?
    it hase NOTHING to do with effort /reward, it is more because the same people dominate the champspawn areas.
    this is mafia behavior,nothing else.
    if the spawns would be "save",like doom is (as they should,because scrolls ARE arbitrative for UO) the prices for scrolls would be lower.

    that means,you deny the people to sell a HoM for 15m,BUT you award in the same time to sell the 120 mage scroll for 15m

    the problem we have with vendors are in the first place NOT the prices of items,it is the
    chicken feed vendor fees.
    if the items dont get sold fast enough, you lose gold,so what? average player determine
    to dont run vendors.

    this and many other things in uo show me that many things in UO please the scripter/duper/cheater scum, and hinder average fair player to participate as they would like in UO

    many game mehanics in UO are in NO way deeply enough reconsidered.
     
  42. Africanus

    Africanus Guest

    My suggestion: Illegal Orc labor, you just feed them an arm or leg every once in a while so they don't eat the customer!
     
  43. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Your vendor fee's are just fine. The problem is that your economy is ****ed to hell!
     
  44. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    But that is just it Setnaffa - you sell COMMODITY items (runics and rewards). You cannot run a decent weapon or armor vendor.

    It takes so long to find the person that needs that 18/14/8/15/6 MR2 Gorget that you have once of two choices:

    * Sell for MORE than its worth and hope they overpay to cover your 4 weeks of vendor fees while you wait.
    * Sell for pennies on the dollar so you don't blow vendor fees and make far less than the gorget is worth.

    Thus, most armor and weapon vendors are dead.

    I understand vendor fees but I've never really liked them.

    Alot of the luna places inflate the price of their goods because of convenience, vendor rental and vendor fees. Then everyone runs around like mad politicians chasing AIG bonuses.

    Don't get mad at the free market system. People NEED to inflate prices in Luna to break even. You don't like it - DON"T BUY IT. No one is forcing you to buy in Luna.

    The problem is, no other places in game get enough traffic to sell goods reliably so Luna is the place to be.

    Why do you think we have so many malls in this world? People like the convenience.

    I would like to see the vendor system get an overhaul. There should be no vendor fees to list an item only a cost when purchased. So what if ppl use them as storage? You only have so many vendor spots anyways. Increase house storage by 1k and vendors inventory counts against house storage. Fine.

    You should also have SEARCHABLE vendor inventories across the entire shard. Make it easy for me to find the lowest prices and show it in real time. Let the buyer then click a button and for 500gp it gives you a rune to the shop with the item for sale.

    Gold sink, happier sellers, happier buyers and Luna gets knocked down a peg (who needs a luna vendor if their goods can be found on a small uninhabited island shop?).

    What is not to like?
     
  45. Tomas_Bryce

    Tomas_Bryce Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
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    Rubbish.

    If vendor fees are removed, the prices on everything will go up significantly higher. Not the other way around.

    1) Vendor fees = biggest gold sink in UO. Removing it means increased gold supply = more inflation.

    2) Vendor feels = incentive to not let your item sit on vendor forever and ever till you find that one fool who is willing to shell out your super high price.

    I pay approximately 3-4M gold a day on vendor fees. That adds up to 90 to 120M gold a month, more than a billion gold annually. If I did not have to do that I would never lower the prices of items and I would have even more gold to spend on nothing.
     
  46. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    You want to see people drop their prices?

    Get rid of the loop hole in the charging of vendor prices.
     

  47. Exactly. People prefer to buy then get other ways.
    Thats part of the game.

    The only problem was dupes.

    Maybe lack of gold sinks. But let players vend and player buy as the wish.

    Flutter is on target.
     
  48. You are so far off your blinded.

    The going rate is whatever can be had.
    10 years ago... 100k bought you Silver Vanquishing weapons. That was alot.

    Do you know why the rate is in millions now? Because of dupes. People actually duped billions in gold.

    So the player with duped gold would go and buy all the items for 100k. The players that sold out raised their prices and raises their price and raised their prices till a balance between sale price and amount of gold in game was reached.

    Since there is no way to dispose of gold or need too really. Prices rise. ITS A GAME.

    Who cares if the going rate for an item is 1 million or 20 gold or 5 Bear Furs. Whatever the rate is the market adjusts.

    I make all my gold reselling items I find on vendors or on items I might get on spawns.

    If I buy 10k of silver for 1 million I sell it for 2 million. Should I sell it for less. No. The buyer prefers to play their game by buying silver versus collecting it. The seller that sold it for 1 million is happy to get 1 million. Im happy to make 1 million.

    How the heck does that bother anyone?


    GEEZ.

    The game is NOT dependant on gold sellers. I never bought gold in my life. By the way years ago a million gold went for $20 bucks. Now 20 million goes for $20.

    I can show anyone how to make 10 million a week by selling items. Its simple. THERE is no need to buy gold. People usually buy gold because they have the cash and want to play other parts of the game. Leave them alone.

    DUH YOUR NOT SPENDING MORE - its all relative. The item that cost 1 million years ago now cost 20 million. ITS THE SAME. Argh.
     

  49. Thank goodness there are bright people here.

    Exactly things would sit oon vendors because there is no incentive to lower prices. Vendor fees are an awesome gold sink and make the game more fair.

    Thomas is right.

    Players would set up 40 vendors with no fees. Go and buy everything thats in demand. Jack up the price and stock 40 vendors and wait and wait and wait and wait.

    Argh.

    Thank you Tomas Bryce for so clearly presenting a logical argument. Sadly many can't see it.
     
  50. Setnaffa

    Setnaffa Certifiable
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    Vendor fees also keep players from exploiting the Vendor system. If there were no fees, players would load vendors up with all kinds of items at ridiculously high prices so they wouldn't need to store the stuff in a house or their bank box.